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Posted: 8/19/2014 9:58:09 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For the same reason there is always some 'tard that insist 4WD>AWD. now youhave done it |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 9:58:49 AM EDT
[#2]
A good Locker in the rear dif makes any 2x4 superior to the AWD systems in most imitation 4x4s
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:02:07 AM EDT
[#3]
To stupid to even argue about, people that say this have never had 4-wd, or never need it.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:03:50 AM EDT
[#4]
2WD is better than 4WD, IFFFF. You never leave the road, never encounter snow, and live and drive around paved roads and never leave them, except to pull your truck into your yard so can wash the truck and water the grass at the same time. If this is your experience, then yes 2WD is better than 4WD.
I can personally attest from owning my 2WD truck there are many occasion when I wish it was a 4WD. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:05:14 AM EDT
[#5]
A 2WD with a locker will do better than most 4x4’s due to the limited slips that come in some of the trucks.
That said a 4x4 with lockers and good tires will kill a 2x. Gun guy’s and hot rod guys are the same though. Someones straight six mustang is always faster than your LS7 and that old man at the gun show has a friend with a mosin that will out shoot any LaRue 308. Fuk sticks like to fuk stick. 
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:05:32 AM EDT
[#6]
Had a guy arguing with me the other day that a front wheel drive vehicle will perform better than a 4wd in any conditions. Seriously, some people are just stupid.
We don't usually get a ton of snow here but lots of times we get a LOT of ice. Last winter they called in the National Guard to pull stuck 18 wheelers off the highway because they had everything blocked up it was so bad. There were something like 150 semis stuck sitting on the highway within a 5 mile stretch. The only people able to actually get around anywhere were people in 4wd trucks. I could go anywhere I wanted and since everything was frozen solid it didn't even matter if I stayed on the road. So when I'd come upon several abandoned cars blocking the road I could just drive around. People in their front wheel drive vehicles were sitting at the bottom of hills just spinning out trying to get to the top and I just drove around them. Red lights and stop signs were irrelevant because the only ones on the roads were a bunch of rednecks in camouflage. Never has going to walmart to pick up stuff been so nice since there were only about 7 people in the whole store. 
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:08:37 AM EDT
[#7]
I run an 80 series land cruiser if the weather is serious. It is AWD. Mine is the "cheap" version that didn't come with front and rear lockers. It has a center diff lock that effectively is standard 4x4 when engaged. I installed an Ausie autolocker in the rear diff. Outside of actual off roading, I have never needed to engage the center diff lock. I even clipped the wire that automatically engages the center diff lock if I drop it into low range (7 pin mod).
There are some old mine roads I like to cruise that are steep enough that this heavy ass rig with a 6 banger needs low range to climb, but I'd rather keep the center diff lock in reserve and save the wear and tear. My pickup is a stock 95 GMC S1500 4x4. I haven't used 4x4 in years (outside of every so often engaging it on a gravel road to make sure it still works). |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:08:48 AM EDT
[#8]
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My little 2wd 1998 Mustang was awesome in snow.  Especially after getting a LSD stuffed in the re-geared diff. Went through all sorts of W Wa winters never used chains. Just zipped right along.
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Most of these newer, bigger half tons seem to be terrible in 2wd on snow. You almost have to put it in 4x4. My older 2wd pickup does alot better. Especially after getting a LSD stuffed in the re-geared diff. Went through all sorts of W Wa winters never used chains. Just zipped right along.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:09:14 AM EDT
[#9]
My house in Iowa, you cant get up in the driveway without 4wd in the winter, even the wifes old fwd TDI Jetta with snow tires couldnt get up half way. There's a reason she now drives a 4x4 4Runner.
Had a co-worker who thought the 2x4> 4x4, he also was an Illinois Commie and would swallow Barry's nuts. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:13:38 AM EDT
[#10]
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To stupid to even argue about, people that say this have never had 4-wd, or never need it. One has to be able to get into the real shit to Apricate a 4wd. Not just driving on a slipery road surface. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:15:43 AM EDT
[#11]
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I have owned one 4x4 that was open in both axles. Get one tire with little traction in the front and another in the back and it sat there spinning. I have owned a 2wd with a really good limited slip in it that I liked better than the 4x4 I just mentioned. And at the same time that 4x4 just needed some parts put into the axles, I sold it before I got around to messing with it. I have seen people take their 2wd whatever places I won't take my 4x4. Sometimes they made it and sometimes they did not. Having a vehicle to start is important. Good tires help a lot. Traction aids in the differential and transfer case if needed are also nice as well. Having a 4x4 with the ability to fully lock everything is nothing short of amazing. If that is what you want. My current 4x4 has a limited slip in the back and an open front. In 2wd it spun a lot during a snow/ice storm. Well, it spun a lot taking off from stop signs. Put it in 4x4 and away it went. Part of the spinning was the old tires on it. Get a Detroit true-trac LSD for the front diff. Acts like LSD til it needs to do otherwise, lightly applying brake will encourage it to lock up if you think you need it to RFN. YMMV. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:16:35 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
most cars are one wheel drive I will take 3 wheel drive please aka 4wd with limited slip This man knows the truth!
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:19:14 AM EDT
[#13]
I was in my buddy's truck when we got stuck while we were duck hunting back in high school. We were 9 miles from the closest town up in NE California. After having to walk most of it (Highway Patrol picked me up) to get a tow, I swore I would NEVER own a truck without 4WD. There are too many places out in the desert where you can get in trouble without it.
Eric  |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:19:30 AM EDT
[#14]
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Nope, google how differentials work. I can't explain things that good or I would. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
most cars are one wheel drive I will take 3 wheel drive please aka 4wd with limited slip Simple. Differentials make sure that the wheel with traction is the one that doesn't spin and the one without traction spins wildly. See, easy peasy! |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:20:18 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And people looking to get stuck thinking their truck is bad ass and can go anywhere cause it has 4wd! Met a lot of people that thought that. Pulled a few out too.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: most cars are one wheel drive I will take 3 wheel drive please aka 4wd with limited slip My 2wd RWD daily driver has limited slip and my 4x4 has triple-lockers. All my drive-wheels put down 'teh power'. Open diffs are for pantywaists. My car has 3 mechanical limited slip differentials, and can put power down even if only 1 wheel is on the ground  It also has parasitic loss in spades...  |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:32:06 AM EDT
[#16]
For ATV's I prefer 2WD. Lighter and a little easier to pull out if it gets stuck. Simpler > Complicated
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:50:14 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And people looking to get stuck thinking their truck is bad ass and can go anywhere cause it has 4wd! Met a lot of people that thought that. Pulled a few out too.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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most cars are one wheel drive I will take 3 wheel drive please aka 4wd with limited slip My 2wd RWD daily driver has limited slip and my 4x4 has triple-lockers. All my drive-wheels put down 'teh power'.
Open diffs are for pantywaists.
I've never tried to get stuck. I just like getting to point B. 
Sometimes I pick an "interesting" point B. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:51:05 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And they never saw someone get stuck on a boat ramp with the back wheels slimed, engage 4w, and pull away no problem. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why is there always some 'tard who insists that 2WD>4WD? Because they can't afford 4wd so they try to justify their 2wd's meaningless existence. And they never saw someone get stuck on a boat ramp with the back wheels slimed, engage 4w, and pull away no problem. Exactly, I use my 4WD every weekend pulling my boat out, including 4 Low as I'm pulling a shit ton of weight for my truck up a reasonable grade (Boat Ramp). |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 11:14:18 AM EDT
[#19]
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I've never tried to get stuck. I just like getting to point B.
Sometimes I pick an "interesting" point B. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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most cars are one wheel drive I will take 3 wheel drive please aka 4wd with limited slip My 2wd RWD daily driver has limited slip and my 4x4 has triple-lockers. All my drive-wheels put down 'teh power'.
Open diffs are for pantywaists.
I've never tried to get stuck. I just like getting to point B.
Sometimes I pick an "interesting" point B. I have just to find and recognize the limits of my vehicles. This more than likely came from my background Dirtbikes, Baja Bugs & Dune Buggies. Fun vehicles
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Posted: 8/19/2014 11:36:50 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Most of these newer, bigger half tons seem to be terrible in 2wd on snow. You almost have to put it in 4x4. My older 2wd pickup does alot better. Especially after getting a LSD stuffed in the re-geared diff. Went through all sorts of W Wa winters never used chains. Just zipped right along. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 11:43:25 AM EDT
[#21]
Most people that use 4WD are never in a position that would actually benefit from 4WD and often put themselves in a position where they are negatively impacted by 4WD.
Usually it's the pretend rednecks who black out everything on their truck and wear TAPOUT shirts and flat brimmed baseball caps. Usually.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 11:44:06 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My car has 3 mechanical limited slip differentials, and can put power down even if only 1 wheel is on the ground It also has parasitic loss in spades... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: most cars are one wheel drive I will take 3 wheel drive please aka 4wd with limited slip My 2wd RWD daily driver has limited slip and my 4x4 has triple-lockers. All my drive-wheels put down 'teh power'. Open diffs are for pantywaists. My car has 3 mechanical limited slip differentials, and can put power down even if only 1 wheel is on the ground It also has parasitic loss in spades... And, hence, the reason why 4WD>AWD. As a large SUV guy, I never understood why the Denalis come with AWD. I prefer 4WD (and the auto 4wd mode), and I definitely prefer having the 2-speed transfer case. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 11:47:19 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Had a guy arguing with me the other day that a front wheel drive vehicle will perform better than a 4wd in any conditions. Seriously, some people are just stupid. We don't usually get a ton of snow here but lots of times we get a LOT of ice. Last winter they called in the National Guard to pull stuck 18 wheelers off the highway because they had everything blocked up it was so bad. There were something like 150 semis stuck sitting on the highway within a 5 mile stretch. The only people able to actually get around anywhere were people in 4wd trucks. I could go anywhere I wanted and since everything was frozen solid it didn't even matter if I stayed on the road. So when I'd come upon several abandoned cars blocking the road I could just drive around. People in their front wheel drive vehicles were sitting at the bottom of hills just spinning out trying to get to the top and I just drove around them. Red lights and stop signs were irrelevant because the only ones on the roads were a bunch of rednecks in camouflage. Never has going to walmart to pick up stuff been so nice since there were only about 7 people in the whole store. https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1544424_809522075759049_222220342647011666_n.jpg?oh=aef09b6c43f47e2af07a4de58eb740d2&oe=547F0018&__gda__=1417607066_feec9fa37277f9d37f4555c266730b3f People with uneven weight distribution with four tires, each of which have a different weight applied to them, spinning against ice got around better than cars with a more even weight distribution with only two tires spinning? In before someone thinks spinning means slamming on the gas.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 11:48:36 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most people that use 4WD are never in a position that would actually benefit from 4WD and often put themselves in a position where they are negatively impacted by 4WD. Usually it's the pretend rednecks who black out everything on their truck and wear TAPOUT shirts and flat brimmed baseball caps. Usually. Look the circus is in town. 
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Posted: 8/19/2014 11:57:55 AM EDT
[#25]
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I would rather have a 2WD pickup with locking rear end, and a winch, which is what I have. I want this!! Who makes a locker for a 97 F250 super duty? For many reasons I am without 4x4 in my life for the first time in a very long time. It snows big about once every three years here. last year it snowed big and I put some weight in the back and put on snow chains and did fine. I thought if I could just lock the rear end I would be fine for everything that needed doing (but not 4x4 play of course). I'd like to find a part time locker that did not cost 2k and require onboard air... |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:10:33 PM EDT
[#26]
4WD is mandatory.
Ever been off road with a trailer? Gets real slick real quick. 2008 F250 6.4L with a Detroit TruTrack locker. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:16:23 PM EDT
[#27]
I had a Army Blazer at Ft Pickett. After a week of driving down swampy, rutted trails the platoon Sgt asked why I never locked the hubs. I went places I never would tried if I hadn't thought it was in 4 wheel drive.
Never owned a 4x4 but the next truck I get will be. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:18:09 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Most people that use 4WD are never in a position that would actually benefit from 4WD and often put themselves in a position where they are negatively impacted by 4WD. Usually it's the pretend rednecks who black out everything on their truck and wear TAPOUT shirts and flat brimmed baseball caps. Usually. Look the circus is in town. http://votemenot.com/upload/1236/12368.jpg Sorry dude, more 4WD trucks end up on the sides of interstates because they think "I HAVE 4WD, I CAN GO ANYWHERE!" 4WD is great for getting around some muddy or off road terrain, but for almost all applications, including off road stuff, it's just not good. If you're climbing rocks? Yeah, you want as much traction as you can get. For general purpose driving, including snow, rain, or any other surface that is not going to allow grip, it is a detriment. If you have something with even weight distribution, 4WD is great. 4WD is usually put on a fucking truck with a heavy ass engine and a long, light weight bed.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:21:25 PM EDT
[#29]
I own a 2wd . I have been stuck. It happens . I did opt for the limited slip diff
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:22:46 PM EDT
[#30]
You can get a lot done with RWD if you know what you are doing, but sometimes you NEED FWD.
On ice, it doesn't matter how many drive wheels you have, you can't stop any faster. I've seen a lot of FWD's in the ditch around here, especially in early winter when everyone is re-learning how to drive. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:24:05 PM EDT
[#31]
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My truck is 4X4. With that said I have always been told the only thing a 4X4 will do is get you stuck futher in the woods. Well there's SOME truth in that...  But it's not a universal truth.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:26:38 PM EDT
[#32]
I have never owned a 4x4 vehicle.
But I have got my ass stuck plenty of times in a 2x2 vehicle. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:26:53 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry dude, more 4WD trucks end up on the sides of interstates because they think "I HAVE 4WD, I CAN GO ANYWHERE!" 4WD is great for getting around some muddy or off road terrain, but for almost all applications, including off road stuff, it's just not good. If you're climbing rocks? Yeah, you want as much traction as you can get. For general purpose driving, including snow, rain, or any other surface that is not going to allow grip, it is a detriment. If you have something with even weight distribution, 4WD is great. 4WD is usually put on a fucking truck with a heavy ass engine and a long, light weight bed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Most people that use 4WD are never in a position that would actually benefit from 4WD and often put themselves in a position where they are negatively impacted by 4WD. Usually it's the pretend rednecks who black out everything on their truck and wear TAPOUT shirts and flat brimmed baseball caps. Usually. Look the circus is in town. http://votemenot.com/upload/1236/12368.jpg Sorry dude, more 4WD trucks end up on the sides of interstates because they think "I HAVE 4WD, I CAN GO ANYWHERE!" 4WD is great for getting around some muddy or off road terrain, but for almost all applications, including off road stuff, it's just not good. If you're climbing rocks? Yeah, you want as much traction as you can get. For general purpose driving, including snow, rain, or any other surface that is not going to allow grip, it is a detriment. If you have something with even weight distribution, 4WD is great. 4WD is usually put on a fucking truck with a heavy ass engine and a long, light weight bed. Sorry dude, but around here its cars getting winched out of the snow and ditches. Its rare we tow a 4x4 truck for running off the road in snow storms. But what do I know, I've only been running wreckers for 22 years in northern WI and the UP of MI. 
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:31:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sorry dude, more 4WD trucks end up on the sides of interstates because they think "I HAVE 4WD, I CAN GO ANYWHERE!" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Most people that use 4WD are never in a position that would actually benefit from 4WD and often put themselves in a position where they are negatively impacted by 4WD. Usually it's the pretend rednecks who black out everything on their truck and wear TAPOUT shirts and flat brimmed baseball caps. Usually. Look the circus is in town. http://votemenot.com/upload/1236/12368.jpg Sorry dude, more 4WD trucks end up on the sides of interstates because they think "I HAVE 4WD, I CAN GO ANYWHERE!" 4WD is great for getting around some muddy or off road terrain, but for almost all applications, including off road stuff, it's just not good. If you're climbing rocks? Yeah, you want as much traction as you can get. For general purpose driving, including snow, rain, or any other surface that is not going to allow grip, it is a detriment. If you have something with even weight distribution, 4WD is great. 4WD is usually put on a fucking truck with a heavy ass engine and a long, light weight bed. The idiot 4wd drivers are in the ditch because they're idiots, not because of their 4wd vehicle. If you're going too fast for the conditions, it doesn't matter how many drive wheels you have, you're going off the road. Driving in poor weather is all about being slow and smooth. The people who panic as soon as they start to skid are the ones who end up in the ditch. 4WD is a detriment for general purpose driving in snow or rain? What are you smoking? |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:40:21 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry dude, but around here its cars getting winched out of the snow and ditches. Its rare we tow a 4x4 truck for running off the road in snow storms. But what do I know, I've only been running wreckers for 22 years in northern WI and the UP of MI.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Most people that use 4WD are never in a position that would actually benefit from 4WD and often put themselves in a position where they are negatively impacted by 4WD. Usually it's the pretend rednecks who black out everything on their truck and wear TAPOUT shirts and flat brimmed baseball caps. Usually. Look the circus is in town. http://votemenot.com/upload/1236/12368.jpg Sorry dude, more 4WD trucks end up on the sides of interstates because they think "I HAVE 4WD, I CAN GO ANYWHERE!" 4WD is great for getting around some muddy or off road terrain, but for almost all applications, including off road stuff, it's just not good. If you're climbing rocks? Yeah, you want as much traction as you can get. For general purpose driving, including snow, rain, or any other surface that is not going to allow grip, it is a detriment. If you have something with even weight distribution, 4WD is great. 4WD is usually put on a fucking truck with a heavy ass engine and a long, light weight bed. Sorry dude, but around here its cars getting winched out of the snow and ditches. Its rare we tow a 4x4 truck for running off the road in snow storms. But what do I know, I've only been running wreckers for 22 years in northern WI and the UP of MI.
Don't bust his bubble. He's as entertaining as the AWD west coast nancys. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:42:14 PM EDT
[#36]
If you're driving off-road, a 4x4 is obviously better. But my 2WD takes me everywhere I need to go.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:43:09 PM EDT
[#37]
I just had this argument the other day. I was saying I wouldn't live up north without 4x4 and my buddy's just kept saying if you have chains you don't need 4x4.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:47:35 PM EDT
[#38]
For offroading, there is only one thing that 2wd is better then 4wd at.
Hauling serious ass out in the desert. Lightness adds horsepowers and lack of a front drivetrain (usually) equals more wheel travel. 2WD trucks also have a better F/R weight balance, so they fly more level when you catch air. (Note, I am talking about built desert trucks, not stock anything). |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:48:17 PM EDT
[#39]
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I just had this argument the other day. I was saying I wouldn't live up north without 4x4 and my buddy's just kept saying if you have chains you don't need 4x4. If someone here told me that. I'd say lets go...........see if you can follow. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:49:09 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For offroading, there is only one thing that 2wd is better then 4wd at. Hauling serious ass out in the desert. Lightness adds horsepowers and lack of a front drivetrain (usually) equals more wheel travel. 2WD trucks also have a better F/R weight balance, so they fly more level when you catch air. (Note, I am talking about built desert trucks, not stock anything). 100% agreement! 
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:50:38 PM EDT
[#41]
I would usually say that a 2WD is good enough, but it certainly isn't better.
I grew up in the snow (Northern Michigan ) and have lived around it most my life. Never had much of a problem with driving a non 4WD. Especially in town. I can't believe all the idiots that say they need a 4WD just because there is a few inches of snow and rarely leave town. That said, a 4WD is most certainly better, and occasionally needed. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:50:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry dude, more 4WD trucks end up on the sides of interstates because they think "I HAVE 4WD, I CAN GO ANYWHERE!" 4WD is great for getting around some muddy or off road terrain, but for almost all applications, including off road stuff, it's just not good. If you're climbing rocks? Yeah, you want as much traction as you can get. For general purpose driving, including snow, rain, or any other surface that is not going to allow grip, it is a detriment. If you have something with even weight distribution, 4WD is great. 4WD is usually put on a fucking truck with a heavy ass engine and a long, light weight bed. Do what? |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:54:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Having owned both I will state that on the road FWD is pretty darn close to 4WD, it's only when you really get in to the mud and sand that the 4WD is better, but usually you're only there because you have a 4WD.
I can clearly remember seeing a 4WD Jeep slowly doing a 360 through an intersection with all four wheels spinning, this was in 2 inches of snow, so it is not a panacea. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:56:37 PM EDT
[#44]
I see we have already started making the absurd comparisons.
Yes, 2wd with snow tires is better than open diff and racing slicks on a 4wd on ice. Yes, a 2wd with studs is better than a 4wd with 3 flat tires and a doughnut spare.
No, all other things being equal, 2wd is not better than 4wd for mud/rough terrain/snow/whatever. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:04:36 PM EDT
[#45]
EVO > muscle car.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:05:36 PM EDT
[#46]
Can my standard rear diff in my Toyota Tundra be converted to a limited slip? I loved the limited slip in the rear end of my old Colorado, but the Tundra a far better truck.
The traction control sucks. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:06:41 PM EDT
[#47]
Funny that you don't see more 2x4s with rear locker.
I only use 4wd a couple times a year, but I am sure glad to have it when I need it. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:25:07 PM EDT
[#48]
Lots of derp in this thread
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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:55:51 PM EDT
[#49]
Unless you live in and apartment or your mother's basement - get both.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 2:00:22 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can my standard rear diff in my Toyota Tundra be converted to a limited slip? I loved the limited slip in the rear end of my old Colorado, but the Tundra a far better truck. The traction control sucks. Is your Tundra 4x4? I've owned my Nissan Frontier 4x4 for 6 years. Driven in snow, snow on ice, hills, mud, offroad, etc. Haven't found a situation where, I wished I had either a limited slip or locking differential. I do have quality BFG AT TAKO tires and chains though. Maybe I'm not pushing it hard enough? |
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