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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:09:32 AM EDT
[#1]
Upstanding community members speak out.
At the height of the post-shooting tensions, police at the scene called for about 60 other police units to respond to the area in Ferguson, a city of about 21,000 residents, about two-thirds of whom are black.
A crowd is stopped by police as they were trying to reach the scene where 18-year-old Michael Brown was fatally shot by police in Ferguson (AP Photo) 
Shock and grief: Michael Brown's grandmother Desiree Harris saw her grandson running on his way to visit her when he was fatally shot and later discovered his bleeding body on the road 
Louis Head, stepfather to 18-year-old Michael Brown who was fatally shot by police, holds a sign in Ferguson (AP Photo) 
Police respond with police dogs after some neighbors were protesting the teen’s death. (Source: KMOV/CNN) 
Unarmed: Brown was unarmed and witnesses say he had his hands in the air when he was shot dead 
Senseless killing: Police officers stand near a crowd that is gathering by the scene where 18-year-old Michael Brown was fatally shot by police 
Lesley McSpadden, center, drops rose petals on the blood stains from her 18-year-old son Michael Brown who was shot and killed by police in the middle of the street in Ferguson (AP Photo) 
Blame Teachers 
#Ferguson PD Chief, our guest on @FOX2now at 8AM; on the death of 18 year old MikeBrown at hands of police. 
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:10:48 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: don't tell me. Go talk to your stupid fucking partners! Norcal_leo to the white courtesy phone please... Norcal_leo you have a call holding on the white courtesy phone. In before  |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:13:20 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why wouldn't the shootee have been wearing handcuffs when the cop tried to put him in the car? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Eyewitness, Piaget Crenshaw, 19, was waiting for a ride to work when she said she saw the police officer attempting to place Brown in the rear seat of a squad car.
She then observed the teen, hands in the air, attempt to flee. Several shots were fired at Brown as he ran, Crenshaw said, striking him in the head and chest. Crenshaw said police asked and she complied with a request that she turn photos of the scene over to authorities. http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/fatal-shooting-by-ferguson-police-draws-angry-crowd/article_04e3885b-4131-5e49-b784-33cd3acbe7f1.html?1 Why wouldn't the shootee have been wearing handcuffs when the cop tried to put him in the car? juvenal maybe? usually lots of feel good regulations when dealing with them. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:16:59 AM EDT
[#4]
The NAACP is going to love this one.
1964 in the South vs 2014 in Ferguson after the shooting of Michael Brown. 50 years later. Some things don't change. pic.twitter.com/7CmBBCbt0y 
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:17:57 AM EDT
[#5]
People marching to the #Ferguson Police Dept headquarters following the killing of a 17-year-old boy. pic.twitter.com/ROvs3mXYMM 
Tariq Nasheed ?@tariqnasheed
The Ferguson police is bringing out straight up military gear against Black people in that area right now pic.twitter.com/eKVwaxolin 
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:18:38 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
juvenal maybe? usually lots of feel good regulations when dealing with them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Eyewitness, Piaget Crenshaw, 19, was waiting for a ride to work when she said she saw the police officer attempting to place Brown in the rear seat of a squad car.
She then observed the teen, hands in the air, attempt to flee. Several shots were fired at Brown as he ran, Crenshaw said, striking him in the head and chest. Crenshaw said police asked and she complied with a request that she turn photos of the scene over to authorities. http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/fatal-shooting-by-ferguson-police-draws-angry-crowd/article_04e3885b-4131-5e49-b784-33cd3acbe7f1.html?1 Why wouldn't the shootee have been wearing handcuffs when the cop tried to put him in the car? juvenal maybe? usually lots of feel good regulations when dealing with them. He was 18 per the article. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:18:55 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the cops heard someone call the victim "Dawg". they HAD to get it on. beat, dammit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maybe he was wearing a dog costume  Just a dog tattoo. the cops heard someone call the victim "Dawg". they HAD to get it on. beat, dammit. I think he said fooey. yea that was it. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:25:13 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The fire is smoldering, for damn sure. 
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:25:32 AM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:28:25 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuote History
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:31:27 AM EDT
[#11]
County guys have some nice ARs...
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:32:02 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
County guys have some nice ARs... Airsoft. Just for show. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:33:22 AM EDT
[#13]
Aspiring rapper down.
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:33:32 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryFFFFFFuck, priceless. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:43:38 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
under certain situation, yes, shooting someone in the back is justified Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This one has potential to get real ugly. It's St. Louis afterall... And by all accounts this is a bad shoot What accounts? I saw a three sentence "article" that suggested he wasn't armed. George Z told me that you can shoot unarmed attackers. What about people running away? under certain situation, yes, shooting someone in the back is justified An unarmed person running away? Please tell me you're not a cop |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:48:21 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryBy the look of his pants, somebody raped him after he was shot.. 
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:48:27 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
An unarmed person running away? Please tell me you're not a cop Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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This one has potential to get real ugly. It's St. Louis afterall... And by all accounts this is a bad shoot What accounts? I saw a three sentence "article" that suggested he wasn't armed. George Z told me that you can shoot unarmed attackers. What about people running away? under certain situation, yes, shooting someone in the back is justified An unarmed person running away? Please tell me you're not a cop Do you even TN vs. Garner bro? |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:49:46 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What accounts? I saw a three sentence "article" that suggested he wasn't armed. George Z told me that you can shoot unarmed attackers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This one has potential to get real ugly. It's St. Louis afterall... And by all accounts this is a bad shoot What accounts? I saw a three sentence "article" that suggested he wasn't armed. George Z told me that you can shoot unarmed attackers. Yeah... but there are others covering this KMOV Witnesses to the shooting say the victim, identified by witnesses at Michael Brown, was walking in the middle of a street with a friend, Dorin Johnson, when a Ferguson officer drove up and ordered them to the sidewalk. Johnson said they told him they were a minute away from their destination and then they would be out of the street. After a verbal confrontation, witness Piaget Crenshaw said the officer got out of his car and fired a shot. Both teens ran, she said, and another shot was fired. Johnson hid behind a car, but said his friend stopped after a second shot was fired at him. Crenshaw and Johnson say the teen held up his hands to show he did not have a weapon, however the officer fired at him two more times and he collapsed and died in the street. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:52:34 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryYou know, that just wouldn't be as funny if there was anybody else in that candle with a "black" saying underneath. Dammit if I didn't laugh, though. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:58:27 AM EDT
[#20]
As a former city cop, pretty much ever shooting of a black suspect by a white officer was considered a "bad shoot" in that area by the locals. "Eyewitnesses" would always pop up on the TV claiming the white officers walked up on an unarmed suspect and shot him in the back of the head, or other such fantasy stories, even when the suspect was shooting at the police. If the cop doing the shooting is black, usually it's a "good shoot". Of course the local media would do their best to fan the racial flames instead of presenting any sort of facts.
North St. Louis is kind of like GD in many ways. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:58:45 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryWhere are the head-grafting photoshop wizards? |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:00:49 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you even TN vs. Garner bro? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you even TN vs. Garner bro? Thanks for making me relive a cases from CJ classes but here's the finding: Held: The Tennessee statute is unconstitutional insofar as it authorizes the use of deadly force against, as in this case, an apparently unarmed, nondangerous fleeing suspect; such force may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others. Pp. 497 U. S. 7-22. c) While burglary is a serious crime, the officer in this case could not reasonably have believed that the suspect -- young, slight, and unarmed -- posed any threat. Nor does the fact that an unarmed suspect has broken into a dwelling at night automatically mean he is dangerous. Pp. 471 U. S. 20-22. I'm no lawyer but that reads like it was ruled unconstitutional and not legal... would be glad to have one of our resident lawyers correct me though. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:01:12 AM EDT
[#23]
I read an interesting analysis a while back comparing shit cities. St Louis was rated worst, beating out Detroit.
I was surprised, I never thought of STL as such a ghetto. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:03:04 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
An unarmed person running away? Please tell me you're not a cop Quote HistoryQuoted:
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under certain situation, yes, shooting someone in the back is justified An unarmed person running away? Please tell me you're not a cop Tennessee v. Garner |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:03:24 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
An unarmed person running away? Please tell me you're not a cop Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This one has potential to get real ugly. It's St. Louis afterall... And by all accounts this is a bad shoot What accounts? I saw a three sentence "article" that suggested he wasn't armed. George Z told me that you can shoot unarmed attackers. What about people running away? under certain situation, yes, shooting someone in the back is justified An unarmed person running away? Please tell me you're not a cop I am a cop. But nowhere did I reference this event in my post. 
But under specific circumstances, yes. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:04:27 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was in Kirkwood during the City Hall massacre and the Police Sgt. William McEntee murder. The city looked like Grand Theft Auto: The movie. I also ate at the Imos Pizza that the pedo/kidnapper Michael Devlin managed at least a dozen times. 
If I ever manage to ditch the night-job, I'm staying the F out of anything in St Louis county or city. I'll mind my own business in JeffCo with all the atanists, meth-cookers and tweakers. I was also in Kirkwood at the time of McEntee's murder. I was at a friend's house not far from Meacham. You could see the video from helicopters overhead on the news, it was a little surreal to realize those are the low flying helicopters outside right now
I also remember the city hall massacre. I've never seen so many cop cars. Some from as far out as Eureka responded to that. Hundreds, at least. I also know the people who live in Devlin's old apt. I only went in once. Had to see. Was extremely creeped out, didnt go back. The couple that live there are really nice, but not from the area. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:12:38 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Screen names? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ........prompts crowd reaction: 'Kill the police' Screen names? So true.
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:13:27 AM EDT
[#28]
This is a situation where "Who do you believe"
Personally I have no idea, here. I'll wait till more facts come in. This is a case of 2 different groups that don't trust each other. Both have their agendas. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:19:33 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for making me relive a cases from CJ classes but here's the finding: I'm no lawyer but that reads like it was ruled unconstitutional and not legal... would be glad to have one of our resident lawyers correct me though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Do you even TN vs. Garner bro? Thanks for making me relive a cases from CJ classes but here's the finding: Held: The Tennessee statute is unconstitutional insofar as it authorizes the use of deadly force against, as in this case, an apparently unarmed, nondangerous fleeing suspect; such force may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others. Pp. 497 U. S. 7-22. c) While burglary is a serious crime, the officer in this case could not reasonably have believed that the suspect -- young, slight, and unarmed -- posed any threat. Nor does the fact that an unarmed suspect has broken into a dwelling at night automatically mean he is dangerous. Pp. 471 U. S. 20-22. I'm no lawyer but that reads like it was ruled unconstitutional and not legal... would be glad to have one of our resident lawyers correct me though. You are assuming that the one persons accounts are correct. 
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:24:21 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm no lawyer but that reads like it was ruled unconstitutional and not legal... would be glad to have one of our resident lawyers correct me though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm no lawyer but that reads like it was ruled unconstitutional and not legal... would be glad to have one of our resident lawyers correct me though. Held: The Tennessee statute is unconstitutional insofar as it authorizes the use of deadly force against, as in this case, an apparently unarmed, nondangerous fleeing suspect; such force may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.
(a) Apprehension by the use of deadly force is a seizure subject to the Fourth Amendment's reasonableness requirement. To determine whether such a seizure is reasonable, the extent of the intrusion on the suspect's rights under that Amendment must be balanced against the governmental interests in effective law enforcement. This balancing process demonstrates that, notwithstanding probable cause to seize a suspect, an officer may not always do so by killing him. The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable. (b) The Fourth Amendment, for purposes of this case, should not be construed in light of the common law rule allowing the use of whatever force is necessary to effect the arrest of a fleeing felon. Changes in the legal and technological context mean that that rule is distorted almost beyond recognition when literally applied. Whereas felonies were formerly capital crimes, few are now, or can be, and many crimes classified as misdemeanors, or nonexistent, at common law are now felonies. Also, the common law rule developed at a time when weapons were rudimentary. And, in light of the varied rules adopted in the States indicating a long-term movement away from the common law rule, particularly in the police departments themselves, that rule is a dubious indicium of the constitutionality of the Tennessee statute. There is no indication that holding a police practice such as that authorized by the statute unreasonable will severely hamper effective law enforcement. (c) While burglary is a serious crime, the officer in this case could not reasonably have believed that the suspect -- young, slight, and unarmed -- posed any threat. Nor does the fact that an unarmed suspect has broken into a dwelling at night automatically mean he is dangerous. 710 F.2d 240, affirmed and remanded. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:30:51 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am a cop. But nowhere did I reference this event in my post.
But under specific circumstances, yes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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An unarmed person running away? Please tell me you're not a cop I am a cop. But nowhere did I reference this event in my post.
But under specific circumstances, yes. But that is what we're talking about. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:34:20 AM EDT
[#32]
If Ferguson burns, not many people in the Saint Louis area will notice.
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:34:30 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm no lawyer but that reads like it was ruled unconstitutional and not legal... would be glad to have one of our resident lawyers correct me though. Held: The Tennessee statute is unconstitutional insofar as it authorizes the use of deadly force against, as in this case, an apparently unarmed, nondangerous fleeing suspect; such force may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.
(a) Apprehension by the use of deadly force is a seizure subject to the Fourth Amendment's reasonableness requirement. To determine whether such a seizure is reasonable, the extent of the intrusion on the suspect's rights under that Amendment must be balanced against the governmental interests in effective law enforcement. This balancing process demonstrates that, notwithstanding probable cause to seize a suspect, an officer may not always do so by killing him. The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable. (c) While burglary is a serious crime, the officer in this case could not reasonably have believed that the suspect -- young, slight, and unarmed -- posed any threat. Nor does the fact that an unarmed suspect has broken into a dwelling at night automatically mean he is dangerous. 710 F.2d 240, affirmed and remanded. I already highlighted where the court ruled Garner that they did not feel the use of deadly force was justified. You also included it. So Garner can apply here provided all the facts in Ferguson play out. So just shooting an unarmed fleeing suspect is not justified. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:35:39 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NAACP can kiss my ass. Their history is very interesting....especially their initial organization & leadership. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:37:20 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I already highlighted where the court ruled Garner that they did not feel the use of deadly force was justified. You also included it. So Garner can apply here provided all the facts in Ferguson play out. So just shooting an unarmed fleeing suspect is not justified. Again... just a CJ grad here and would be glad to take an expert opinion on it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm no lawyer but that reads like it was ruled unconstitutional and not legal... would be glad to have one of our resident lawyers correct me though. Held: The Tennessee statute is unconstitutional insofar as it authorizes the use of deadly force against, as in this case, an apparently unarmed, nondangerous fleeing suspect; such force may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.
(a) Apprehension by the use of deadly force is a seizure subject to the Fourth Amendment's reasonableness requirement. To determine whether such a seizure is reasonable, the extent of the intrusion on the suspect's rights under that Amendment must be balanced against the governmental interests in effective law enforcement. This balancing process demonstrates that, notwithstanding probable cause to seize a suspect, an officer may not always do so by killing him. The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable. (c) While burglary is a serious crime, the officer in this case could not reasonably have believed that the suspect -- young, slight, and unarmed -- posed any threat. Nor does the fact that an unarmed suspect has broken into a dwelling at night automatically mean he is dangerous. 710 F.2d 240, affirmed and remanded. I already highlighted where the court ruled Garner that they did not feel the use of deadly force was justified. You also included it. So Garner can apply here provided all the facts in Ferguson play out. So just shooting an unarmed fleeing suspect is not justified. Again... just a CJ grad here and would be glad to take an expert opinion on it. I think you are missing this part "unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others." ETA: I am not making any judgements or allegations about the shooting under discussion in this thread, merely pointing out what I believe you have missed in what 40 posted. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:42:05 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you are missing this part "unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others." ETA: I am not making any judgements or allegations about the shooting under discussion in this thread, merely pointing out what I believe you have missed in what 40 posted. No not missing that at all but the key part is that there has to be a "significant threat of death to the officer or others". Even in Garner, the court ruled that the officer did not have that justification unless I'm reading it wrong, it is early and I haven't had coffee after all. You can perceive a threat all day long but if it doesn't actually exist, you're screwed. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:42:51 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryMaybe if he'd pulled his pants up he could have run faster. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:42:59 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
not for one second do I believe that the crowd was yelling kill the police. I have heard from very knowledgeable policeman on this site that judging by the amount of Christmas cookies and letters they receive that the public loves them. The public does. Dirtbags on the other hand, well, just let me ask. What is the crowd's screen name?
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:43:53 AM EDT
[#39]
St. Louis has some good things about it. Can't say the same about its people though.
East St. Louis is even worse. Stay away. Don't stop. Keep going. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:44:47 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A man can dream. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In b4 St. Louis burns. A man can dream. Improve the neighborhood for sure. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:46:30 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And I don't trust the police. They are NOT my friends. Quote HistoryQuoted:
And I don't trust the police. They are NOT my friends. newsflash. We don't want to be your friend. fact is, we would be happy as hell to never, ever, meet you. 
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:47:27 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
don't tell me. Go talk to your stupid fucking partners! Oh look, he mad. 
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:50:34 AM EDT
[#43]
Story without facts is full of vagueness...
I worked EMS in that area back in the day... Some rough neighborhoods... I remember we were not allow to answer EMS calls in Kinloch without police escort due to constant death threats to all public safety personnel. I for one will be following this one as more FACTS come out about why this dude was shot... Until then, fuck the NAACP!!!!! |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:51:01 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
An unarmed person running away? Please tell me you're not a cop Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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This one has potential to get real ugly. It's St. Louis afterall... And by all accounts this is a bad shoot What accounts? I saw a three sentence "article" that suggested he wasn't armed. George Z told me that you can shoot unarmed attackers. What about people running away? under certain situation, yes, shooting someone in the back is justified An unarmed person running away? Please tell me you're not a cop Want to know how many good CHL shoots are of UNARMED people?
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:59:40 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
By the look of his pants, somebody raped him after he was shot.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
By the look of his pants, somebody raped him after he was shot..
ah fuck i'm going to hell. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 11:02:58 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If Ferguson burns, not many people in the Saint Louis area will notice. Or care. I wonder about the number of dumpster's set on fire last night, I heard about one. The afternoon temps will be mild, so the local heroes will be back on the streets after the preachers get their momma's stirred up. Folks in Ferguson shouldn't be bitchin', they're living the lives they want, they built it and they'd change it otherwise. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 11:04:08 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This one has potential to get real ugly. It's St. Louis afterall... [div style='text-align: right;']And by all accounts this is a bad shoot Where are you getting the information to make that call? Oh, I forgot, on AR15 all LEO involved shootings are Bad Shoots |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 11:07:34 AM EDT
[#48]
Based on limited info, this is isnt good.
Standing by for real info. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 11:07:43 AM EDT
[#49]
[personal attack removed - warning issued - Paul]
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Posted: 8/10/2014 11:08:49 AM EDT
[#50]
[personal attack removed - warning issued - Paul]
Okay, show us one. |
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