User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 7:45:18 PM EDT
[#1]
Australia is our closest ally.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 7:45:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
More like generalized Germany's hat guilt... Religious nuttjobbery seems to be the reason the Israel first crowd has so much steam in the US. Not out of some repressed, mass guilt or culture specific psychological disorder. The lesson that should be taken away from the Holocaust is that genocide and oppression demands action, regardless of who the victim is. Not that we some how owe "the Jews" as if Israel represents the complete Jewish diaspora. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature. 
Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. So is that like white guilt but different?  It's generalized western civilization guilt. 
We have basically EVERYTHING ELSE to feel good about and brag about, but that one stain should give us pause. More like generalized Germany's hat guilt... Religious nuttjobbery seems to be the reason the Israel first crowd has so much steam in the US. Not out of some repressed, mass guilt or culture specific psychological disorder. The lesson that should be taken away from the Holocaust is that genocide and oppression demands action, regardless of who the victim is. Not that we some how owe "the Jews" as if Israel represents the complete Jewish diaspora. Yup. It's the Christian Zionists Israel owes its American support to. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 7:45:52 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Um... what percentage of blame do you think the USA carries for the holocaust, exactly? The U.S. specifically? None whatsoever. I'm talking about western civilization in general. I am not saying it's guilt from direct responsibility, but rather shame from association with the same broad culture. Think about it this way. I assume NOBODY in your family or immediate ancestors were involved in atrocities committed against the Cherokee or Sioux (for example) ... but that still doesn't mean that you cannot say "yeah, those guys kind of got fucked over, and I'm okay with giving them some land, or aid or military protection or whatever" feeling some generalized obligation or desire to help doesn't have to come from some direct responsibility, Again, I am not trying to convince you. Just explaining how I feel. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 7:46:50 PM EDT
[#4]
Of course they aren't. I wouldn't even go so far as to call them an ally, although they aren't an enemy either.
We don't have military bases in Israel. Israel has never supported us in a war, even when it is in their neighborhood and largely on their behalf. They don't pay us anything, and the weapons they buy from us are bought with our money. They are more of a socialist collective than a functional democracy, They spy on us and sell our technology to our competitors. What possible reason could there be to consider them an ally? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 7:47:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was never about the Cold War. Your argument might make sense if we were talking about Turkey. IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature.
Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. Oh for fuck's sake. Seriously? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 7:47:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The U.S. specifically? None whatsoever. I'm talking about western civilization in general. I am not saying it's guilt from direct responsibility, but rather shame from association with the same broad culture. Think about it this way. I assume NOBODY in your family or immediate ancestors were involved in atrocities committed against the Cherokee or Sioux (for example) ... but that still doesn't mean that you cannot say "yeah, those guys kind of got fucked over, and I'm okay with giving them some land, or aid or military protection or whatever" feeling some generalized obligation or desire to help doesn't have to come from some direct responsibility, Again, I am not trying to convince you. Just explaining how I feel.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Um... what percentage of blame do you think the USA carries for the holocaust, exactly? The U.S. specifically? None whatsoever. I'm talking about western civilization in general. I am not saying it's guilt from direct responsibility, but rather shame from association with the same broad culture. Think about it this way. I assume NOBODY in your family or immediate ancestors were involved in atrocities committed against the Cherokee or Sioux (for example) ... but that still doesn't mean that you cannot say "yeah, those guys kind of got fucked over, and I'm okay with giving them some land, or aid or military protection or whatever" feeling some generalized obligation or desire to help doesn't have to come from some direct responsibility, Again, I am not trying to convince you. Just explaining how I feel.
American and Euro culture are nothing alike. When you say broad culture, you are reaching aweful fucking broad. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 7:48:11 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I understand your answer and Euro guilt, yet if that is your argument... then they should have been given a state carved out of Germany, not the Middle East. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
... I'm European and therefore, by definition, anti-Semitic - so take a guess.
Actually, I think the US is an Israeli ally, but Israel is not a US ally, so it's a very one-sided "alliance" But I am okay with that. Israel should be supported. Why? Now that the Cold War is over, they serve no purpose. It was never about the Cold War. Your argument might make sense if we were talking about Turkey. IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature.
Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. I understand your answer and Euro guilt, yet if that is your argument... then they should have been given a state carved out of Germany, not the Middle East. I agree 100% that Bavaria should ALSO belong to the Jews in perpetuity. But, hey, they wanted Palestine and Jerusalem - and I can't really blame them for wanting to get the fuck out of Europe.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 7:50:10 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree 100% that Bavaria should ALSO belong to the Jews in perpetuity. But, hey, they wanted Palestine and Jerusalem - and I can't really blame them for wanting to get the fuck out of Europe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
... I'm European and therefore, by definition, anti-Semitic - so take a guess.
Actually, I think the US is an Israeli ally, but Israel is not a US ally, so it's a very one-sided "alliance" But I am okay with that. Israel should be supported. Why? Now that the Cold War is over, they serve no purpose. It was never about the Cold War. Your argument might make sense if we were talking about Turkey. IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature.
Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. I understand your answer and Euro guilt, yet if that is your argument... then they should have been given a state carved out of Germany, not the Middle East. I agree 100% that Bavaria should ALSO belong to the Jews in perpetuity. But, hey, they wanted Palestine and Jerusalem - and I can't really blame them for wanting to get the fuck out of Europe. How generous to fuck over one people to help another. Seems legit. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 7:52:25 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We got your hat. Fuck yeah. Canadians look at America and pick on us because we are somewhat chubbier, and a little bit more high strung and somewhat aggressive. We pick on Canada because they are like the overly polite sibling that tries to pretend it has more European "refinement" and sensibilities but in reality are really just trailer trash like we are, but at the end of the day if any other nation were to pick a "take off the kiddy gloves and fight" kind of fight you KNOW we would have each others backs. We are family in a way, demented, argumentative siblings cast from the die that was the English crown, but we are still family nonetheless. Fuck yeah, Canada. You guys are awesome. If that high school bully ever were to pants you guys you, know damn well that your iron pumping, always looking for a tussle brother would jump at the chance to beat the ever living shit out of whoever fucked with his brother. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 7:53:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not that my opinion means a fuckstain in the world, but I think we, the US, should gladly take on the role of protecting the Jews in Israel from certain genocide by the arabs & Muslims, even if it may be politically burdensome to do so. I am not under the impression that they are our truest friends but I agree with you. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 7:53:50 PM EDT
[#11]
DK-Prof,
I still cannot believe your thousand year obligation comment. With that being said, I'm off to bed for a few hours. Good day, gents. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 7:56:21 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This, and add the Poles. They really want a US base there Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'd say Canada, Australia or England This, and add the Poles. They really want a US base there My God, I would take my 38 year old ass (39 in an hour and a half) and re-enlist in a fucking heartbeat if we started putting troops in Poland. Have you SEEN Polish women? My God, they are fucking beautiful and those same Polish genes are likely the reason for my good looks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 8:02:15 PM EDT
[#13]
They're not an ally at all. I don't know why the hell people think they are. Any randomly selected NATO country is a closer ally than Israel.
It's basically the same arrangement the Soviets had with us during WW2: they look out after their own interests and we give them billions and get nothing in return. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 8:05:07 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My God, I would take my 38 year old ass (39 in an hour and a half) and re-enlist in a fucking heartbeat if we started putting troops in Poland. Have you SEEN Polish women? My God, they are fucking beautiful and those same Polish genes are likely the reason for my good looks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'd say Canada, Australia or England This, and add the Poles. They really want a US base there My God, I would take my 38 year old ass (39 in an hour and a half) and re-enlist in a fucking heartbeat if we started putting troops in Poland. Have you SEEN Polish women? My God, they are fucking beautiful and those same Polish genes are likely the reason for my good looks. Finally a '13er who makes complete sense !
Happy Birthday in a little while. Mine too !
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 8:05:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They're not an ally at all. I don't know why the hell people think they are. Any randomly selected NATO country is a closer ally than Israel. It's basically the same arrangement the Soviets had with us during WW2: they look out after their own interests and we give them billions and get nothing in return. We traded trucks, gasoline, tanks, bullets, guns, food, steel, aluminum, etc... for dead Germans. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 8:06:03 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are they even our closest ally in the Middle East? The Kuwaitis still love us don't they? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 8:06:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Finally a '13er who makes complete sense !
Happy Birthday in a little while. Mine too ! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'd say Canada, Australia or England This, and add the Poles. They really want a US base there My God, I would take my 38 year old ass (39 in an hour and a half) and re-enlist in a fucking heartbeat if we started putting troops in Poland. Have you SEEN Polish women? My God, they are fucking beautiful and those same Polish genes are likely the reason for my good looks. Finally a '13er who makes complete sense !
Happy Birthday in a little while. Mine too ! Ahh, a fellow man of impeccable taste and obviously good breeding. Happy birthday to you too. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 8:08:05 PM EDT
[#18]
oops
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 8:08:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Australia! Canada and Great Britain were nowhere to be found during Vietnam.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 8:10:00 PM EDT
[#20]
The Five Eyes are our closest allies.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 8:10:37 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We actually have a mutual defense agreement with Turkey. They are our only real allies in the Middle East. Giving people free shit doesn't make them your ally. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Are they even our closest ally in the Middle East? The Kuwaitis still love us don't they? Yeah, yeah...they're a half assed member of NATO...who double crossed us on Iraq.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 8:11:42 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn't even call them an ally. More like a leech. But our closest ally? No way. Important, yes. Closest, no. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 8:12:29 PM EDT
[#23]
I doubt Israel makes the top ten in our ally list.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 8:14:35 PM EDT
[#24]
We are or were their closest ally. Our closest ally would be Australia and then Great Britain. I say Australia because they never sat out any of our wars.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 8:18:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, yeah...they're a half assed member of NATO...who double crossed us on Iraq. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Are they even our closest ally in the Middle East? The Kuwaitis still love us don't they? Yeah, yeah...they're a half assed member of NATO...who double crossed us on Iraq. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 8:19:02 PM EDT
[#26]
Only one country has been with the USA in every major conflict for the past 100+ years.
Only one.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 8:20:10 PM EDT
[#27]
I'll go with the UK but even that I can imagine is in question starting with zero sending back the bust.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 8:21:18 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We traded trucks, gasoline, tanks, bullets, guns, food, steel, aluminum, etc... for dead Germans. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They're not an ally at all. I don't know why the hell people think they are. Any randomly selected NATO country is a closer ally than Israel. It's basically the same arrangement the Soviets had with us during WW2: they look out after their own interests and we give them billions and get nothing in return. We traded trucks, gasoline, tanks, bullets, guns, food, steel, aluminum, etc... for dead Germans. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 8:26:06 PM EDT
[#29]
In honor of this thread and all of the other recent Israeli threads, I have picked this new avatar.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 8:40:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In all things military what country has more common interest with us than Canada? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Israel needs the USA more than we need them. That being said it's the only nation in the Middle East that's not run like it's 200 B.C. And maybe even all of the African Continent or the other neo Asiatic Muslim nations. And there are millions of people in this country including myself that would make quite a showing if some President actually gave real thought of throwing Israel to the figurative wolves. We can count on Israel pretty much if both nations interests are aligned for that sphere of the world. But maybe it's just my older generation thinking here but I believe we can count on the Brits to do the right thing with us more than most. That's my opinion. You can insert any country we are allied with in there, and the statement is still true. the main reason I think this new "rating" trend is silly. Ffs the definition of alliance is a pact to secure common interest. In all things military what country has more common interest with us than Canada? Mexico
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 8:41:01 PM EDT
[#31]
These are the ObamaTimes. I'm not sure we have any allies left.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 8:53:06 PM EDT
[#32]
I'm having more and more problem feeling much good towards Israel. American Jew are either communistic liberals and the too many of conservative ones seem to have a "what is mine is mine and your's is negotiable, so screw you" attitude towards those who try and support them.
Israel takes billions from us and I'm still smarting from their sending our military technology to China. I know we get some from Israel, but nothing like what we give. I'd like to be more pro-Israel/pro-Jewish. I really would. But they certainly are making it harder and harder. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 9:02:17 PM EDT
[#33]
Canada, eh?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 9:04:30 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meanwhile, they maintained a non-agression pact with Japan, even capturing and imprisoning our aircrews who crash landed in Soviet held territory after bombing Japan. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They're not an ally at all. I don't know why the hell people think they are. Any randomly selected NATO country is a closer ally than Israel. It's basically the same arrangement the Soviets had with us during WW2: they look out after their own interests and we give them billions and get nothing in return. We traded trucks, gasoline, tanks, bullets, guns, food, steel, aluminum, etc... for dead Germans. So they could copy the B 29. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 9:07:26 PM EDT
[#35]
Uhh, no.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 9:08:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd say Canada, Australia or England Came to post this.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 9:12:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Not even close. How many wars have the Brits or Aussies followed us into? IIRC there were former eastern bloc countries in Iraq and Afghanistan. What does Israel allow us to do stop in to top off fuel?
We should cut Israel and all Arabs off from aid of any kind. Normalize trade but no handouts anymore. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 9:14:25 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Canada Nope, not hardly. Canada is Five eyes but at the left end of the spectrum. Number One, by a long shot, is UK, then Australia and finally NZ. Canada and France are about in the same boat. Don't kid yourself, there are some great Canadians but their politics are similar to Europeans and they detest us in a similar manner. lol I agree. lol |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 9:28:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Australia! Canada and Great Britain were nowhere to be found during Vietnam. Canadians fought in Viet Nam. They just crossed the border and joined up. Saw a flight come in here in Calgary carrying a Canadian USMC soldier in a coffin. That coffin was secured by 6 USMC who policed it to the dead soldiers grave site. He was buried with full USMC honours and his mother was presented with the stars and stripes. He did not die in vain, he died fighting for the free world that he believed in. Many Canadians did, regardless of what the .gov of this country thought of Viet Nam. Neighbours yes, fight for freedom and what we believe in regardless of our border....ABSOLUTELY. PPCLI FTMFW !!! |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 9:29:53 PM EDT
[#40]
Israel gives the US a great proving ground to test military equipment against the commie versions .
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 9:34:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Best ally in Dirka-Dirka Land maybe. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/29/2014 9:47:29 PM EDT
[#42]
If it weren't for the shitheads that they go up against and are surrounded by, I think GD would HATE Israel.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/30/2014 1:33:19 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Australia! Canada and Great Britain were nowhere to be found during Vietnam. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/30/2014 1:34:41 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only one country has been with the USA in every major conflict for the past 100+ years. Only one. Yep. And it's the country who's flag you're flying. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/30/2014 1:36:10 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Australia fought in Vietnam. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Australia_during_the_Vietnam_War Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Australia! Canada and Great Britain were nowhere to be found during Vietnam. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Australia_during_the_Vietnam_War He was saying that Australia was our greatest ally. The "!" was the end of that sentence. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/30/2014 1:39:30 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm pretty sure it's a tossup between Canada and Britain. This. Israel is our ally, but not a "through thick and thin" sort of ally. The concerns of Israel for anyone other than Israel are an extremely distant second. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/30/2014 10:16:52 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only one country has been with the USA in every major conflict for the past 100+ years. Only one. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/30/2014 10:18:29 AM EDT
[#48]
Britain, Australia and Canada in that order in my opinion. Reversing #2 and #3 is highly possible/debatable/probable depending on the situation.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/30/2014 10:37:15 AM EDT
[#49]
You don't have "close allies".
You have associates who view their relationship with America in terms of reciprocity. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/30/2014 10:41:05 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only one country has been with the USA in every major conflict for the past 100+ years. Only one.   
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
