User Panel
Posted: 7/28/2014 5:24:12 PM EDT
In light if the current situation in Gaza, and the propagandizing of the deaths, perhaps this quote is applicable:
There are no innocent civilians. It is their government and you are fighting a people, you are not trying to fight an armed force anymore. So it doesn't bother me so much to be killing the so-called innocent bystanders. View Quote Does it apply in this situation? Does it apply in this day and age? Did it ever apply? |
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[#3]
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[#4]
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[#5]
The funny thing is that bombing a population has only ever won a single war.
That would be the Madrid bombings ten years ago. |
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[#6]
I guess when you fire bomb a people like Lemay and Harris did there is no room for conscience....Only self-justification.
Meh, worked for them, they both got promoted. |
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[#8]
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[#9]
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Gen Lemay would be a War Criminal these days Fuck these days. Yup! If we had listened to him, we would have all been nuked during the Cuban Missile Crisis, but hey, let's not get the facts get in the way of GD chest thumping. For the record, I have no sympathy for the Palis, just disdain for the ignorant stupidity often on display in GD. |
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[#10]
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[#11]
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[#12]
When a people go to WAR half measures are foolish.
Old LeMay knew that. |
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[#13]
Quoted:
In light if the current situation in Gaza, and the propagandizing of the deaths, perhaps this quote is applicable: There are no innocent civilians. It is their government and you are fighting a people, you are not trying to fight an armed force anymore. So it doesn't bother me so much to be killing the so-called innocent bystanders. View Quote Does it apply in this situation? in gaza hell yes Does it apply in this day and age? against radical islam double nerve gas hell yes Did it ever apply? View Quote |
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[#14]
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[#15]
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[#16]
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If we had listened to him, we would have all been nuked during the Cuban Missile Crisis, but hey, let's not get the facts get in the way of GD chest thumping. For the record, I have no sympathy for the Palis, just disdain for the ignorant stupidity often on display in GD. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Gen Lemay would be a War Criminal these days Fuck these days. Yup! If we had listened to him, we would have all been nuked during the Cuban Missile Crisis, but hey, let's not get the facts get in the way of GD chest thumping. For the record, I have no sympathy for the Palis, just disdain for the ignorant stupidity often on display in GD. Soviets would not have gone to war for Cuba. Kennedy was as bad at foreign policy as Odipshit. History has been rewritten to make JFK some genious hero, just like McCarthy was accusing all those innocents of being Communists. |
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[#17]
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Soviets would not have gone to war for Cuba. Kennedy was as bad at foreign policy as Odipshit. History has been rewritten to make JFK some genious hero, just like McCarthy was accusing all those innocents of being Communists. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Gen Lemay would be a War Criminal these days Fuck these days. Yup! If we had listened to him, we would have all been nuked during the Cuban Missile Crisis, but hey, let's not get the facts get in the way of GD chest thumping. For the record, I have no sympathy for the Palis, just disdain for the ignorant stupidity often on display in GD. Soviets would not have gone to war for Cuba. Kennedy was as bad at foreign policy as Odipshit. History has been rewritten to make JFK some genious hero, just like McCarthy was accusing all those innocents of being Communists. You are clueless http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_LeMay#Cold_War "During the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962, LeMay clashed again with U.S. President John F. Kennedy and Defense Secretary McNamara, arguing that he should be allowed to bomb nuclear missile sites in Cuba. He opposed the naval blockade and, after the end of the crisis, suggested that Cuba be invaded anyway, even after the Russians agreed to withdraw. LeMay called the peaceful resolution of the crisis - whereby Kennedy secretly agreed to remove US missiles from Turkey and Italy - "the greatest defeat in our history".[41] Unknown to the US, the Soviet field commanders in Cuba had been given authority to launch—the only time such authority was delegated by higher command.[25] They had twenty nuclear warheads for medium-range R-12 Dvina (NATO Code SS-4 Sandal) ballistic missiles capable of reaching US cities (including Washington) and nine tactical nuclear missiles. If Soviet officers had launched them, many millions of US citizens could have been killed. The ensuing SAC retaliatory thermonuclear strike would have killed roughly one hundred million Soviet citizens. Kennedy refused LeMay's requests, however, and the naval blockade was successful.[25]" |
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[#18]
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[#19]
Soviets wanted US missiles out of Turkey- and that's what they got. The Naval blockade was not succesful. Kennedy was correctly seen by Kruschev as weak and clueless. As Khrushchev put it in his memoirs: “It would have been ridiculous for us to go to war over Cuba—for a country 12,000 miles away. For us, war was unthinkable. We ended up getting exactly what we`d wanted all along, security for Fidel Castro`s regime and American missiles removed from Turkey.” |
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[#20]
Lots of folks here call Lemay a hero, and in another breath label General Sherman a terrorist.
While Lemay did far worse things than Sherman could ever have dreamed.
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[#21]
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[#22]
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[#23]
To be fair, this precedent had been established long before any B-29's appeared over Japan.
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[#24]
Besides LeMay the only other truly great American General was William T Sherman. These two men knew how to fight a war. Most are/where just bit players these two destroyed countries and made the enemy howl.
They knew how to win wars. Burn everything to the fucking ground. |
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[#25]
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[#26]
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[#27]
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Besides LeMay the only other truly great American General was William T Sherman. These two men knew how to fight a war. Most are/where just bit players these two destroyed countries and made the enemy howl. They knew how to win wars. Burn everything to the fucking ground. View Quote Glad your so proud of a man who waged total war on Americans. |
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[#28]
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I guess when you fire bomb a people like Lemay and Harris did there is no room for conscience....Only self-justification. Meh, worked for them, they both got promoted. View Quote War isn't suppose to be nice, but it should be objective and run it's course and then END. I'd much prefer Lemay to a Petreaus |
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[#29]
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[#30]
Quoted: Glad your so proud of a man who waged total war on Americans. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Besides LeMay the only other truly great American General was William T Sherman. These two men knew how to fight a war. Most are/where just bit players these two destroyed countries and made the enemy howl. They knew how to win wars. Burn everything to the fucking ground. Glad your so proud of a man who waged total war on Americans. I wasn't aware they were Americans.
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[#32]
The same quote legitimizes terrorism
If you agree that there is no separation of combatants and not,anything goes. It's a short slippery slope to justify ethnic cleaning and genocide as well. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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[#33]
I'm against LeMay's type of tactics based on some kind of principle. But just to be my own devil's advocate:
If a war was really so violent and utterly repulsive, that the thought of it made one retch, would it make a people truly avoid it all the more? Or would it make them more vulnerable because they would let things get too far before they took action, and at that point dithered their way into an un-winnable situation? I can also acknowledge that the reservations that a "good" person may have is not shared by certain aggressors, and they would use that hesitation against you. So you would be morally comfortable but dead. |
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[#34]
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In light if the current situation in Gaza, and the propagandizing of the deaths, perhaps this quote is applicable: There are no innocent civilians. It is their government and you are fighting a people, you are not trying to fight an armed force anymore. So it doesn't bother me so much to be killing the so-called innocent bystanders. View Quote Does it apply in this situation? Does it apply in this day and age? Did it ever apply? View Quote It's highly applicable - it's why Osama attacked civilians on 9/11 - all of those civilians were responsible for American policy, not even by omission alone, but as stakeholders with voting powers. Of course, Americans didn't want to own up to the consequences of democracy right then. It's a fundamentally post-enlightenment philosophy. When kings were around, funding wars was often their business, and so was the execution thereof. Whenever wars weren't religious or ethnically motivated, the people were considered bystanders. Once power comes from the people, not the king, the people are a legitimate target, strategically and ethically, so post-populist wars became more violent after correcting for technological/doctrinal advances. |
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[#35]
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Glad your so proud of a man who waged total war on Americans. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Besides LeMay the only other truly great American General was William T Sherman. These two men knew how to fight a war. Most are/where just bit players these two destroyed countries and made the enemy howl. They knew how to win wars. Burn everything to the fucking ground. Glad your so proud of a man who waged total war on Americans. You don't get to leave and then claim a common identity. |
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[#36]
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You don't get to leave and then claim a common identity. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Besides LeMay the only other truly great American General was William T Sherman. These two men knew how to fight a war. Most are/where just bit players these two destroyed countries and made the enemy howl. They knew how to win wars. Burn everything to the fucking ground. Glad your so proud of a man who waged total war on Americans. You don't get to leave and then claim a common identity. I think if a common identity is imposed by force, it's yours. |
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[#37]
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I think if a common identity is imposed by force, it's yours. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Besides LeMay the only other truly great American General was William T Sherman. These two men knew how to fight a war. Most are/where just bit players these two destroyed countries and made the enemy howl. They knew how to win wars. Burn everything to the fucking ground. Glad your so proud of a man who waged total war on Americans. You don't get to leave and then claim a common identity. I think if a common identity is imposed by force, it's yours. The south doesn't have a leg to stand on, morally. |
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[#38]
If the civilian populace cheers and hurrahs whilst the rockets are outbound, they can suffer the consequences
whence the rockets are inbound. That is my general take on the matter. |
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[#39]
LeMay's tactics should be reserved only for wars of survival like WWII.
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[#40]
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[#41]
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I guess when you fire bomb a people like Lemay and Harris did there is no room for conscience....Only self-justification. Meh, worked for them, they both got promoted. And helped win the war... Who works in all the munitions factories? Who raises the next generation of nazis, imperial japanese, jihadis? Did they try to overthrow hitler or hirohito? The civilian population was a legitimate target then. Its nothing more than what hasn't been done for thousands of years, just a new tool, and a somewhat more efficient one. |
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[#42]
Quoted: The same quote legitimizes terrorism If you agree that there is no separation of combatants and not,anything goes. It's a short slippery slope to justify ethnic cleaning and genocide as well. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile View Quote That was one of Bin Laden's reason for terror. He said tax payers are just the same as the guys carrying the guns because the tax payers fund them and make their existence possible.
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[#43]
Quoted: Besides LeMay the only other truly great American General was William T Sherman. These two men knew how to fight a war. Most are/where just bit players these two destroyed countries and made the enemy howl. They knew how to win wars. Burn everything to the fucking ground. View Quote |
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[#44]
I knew his nephew.
He told me onetime Curtis Le May was at a family BBQ and that he told him that instead of being there he would rather be killing communists! |
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[#45]
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[#46]
There is a hardcore amount of in this thread.
Glad to know that you guys are okay with bombing civilians en masse. |
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[#48]
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There is a hardcore amount of in this thread. Glad to know that you guys are okay with bombing civilians en masse. View Quote Yes I am--given the right reasons. Because at some point, surgical strikes just won't accomplish your national security objectives. It's total war at that point, and total war is a war of societies or ideologies, not governments. All targets are on the table at that point. Do we go there immediately after kickoff? Usually not. Last two times we did that were the Civil War and WWII, both wars of national survival. Vietnam, Korea, even OEF/OIF, not so much. A relevant LeMay quote: "Kill enough of them, and they stop fighting." |
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[#49]
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Who works in all the munitions factories? Who raises the next generation of nazis, imperial japanese, jihadis? Did they try to overthrow hitler or hirohito? The civilian population was a legitimate target then. Its nothing more than what hasn't been done for thousands of years, just a new tool, and a somewhat more efficient one. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I guess when you fire bomb a people like Lemay and Harris did there is no room for conscience....Only self-justification. Meh, worked for them, they both got promoted. And helped win the war... Who works in all the munitions factories? Who raises the next generation of nazis, imperial japanese, jihadis? Did they try to overthrow hitler or hirohito? The civilian population was a legitimate target then. Its nothing more than what hasn't been done for thousands of years, just a new tool, and a somewhat more efficient one. Then should "Tarleton's Quarter" be applied to US citizens/soldiers alike by our enemies? Looks like it according to your reasoning. I'm not completely opposed to the notion of "nits become lice" as it regards the goat fuckers as it seems prudent to kill them off in wholesale lots but it leads to all kinds of unsavory things that your great-grandkids might not be very proud of.....Especially if you lose or "win" poorly. When you go down that road you better win and win big. Winners write the history. Had we not fell out with the Soviets post-war I wonder how much we would have even knew about the millions of Russians Stalin killed? |
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