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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:22:53 AM EDT
[#1]
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So how close is close enough? See, this is the problem with your theory that "maritime boundaries" are the same thing as "borders." Maritime boundaries are man-made, legal constructs that vary in their extent from 3 miles or less out to 200 or more miles, depending on their purposes and the agreement of the countries. Trying to use them as a definition of "border" is a complete clusterfuck. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does the U.S. border Cuba? Yes. Does the U.S. border Japan? No, the distance is too great. So how close is close enough? See, this is the problem with your theory that "maritime boundaries" are the same thing as "borders." Maritime boundaries are man-made, legal constructs that vary in their extent from 3 miles or less out to 200 or more miles, depending on their purposes and the agreement of the countries. Trying to use them as a definition of "border" is a complete clusterfuck. Not really. Your jurisdictions do not border each other as there's international waters in between. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:24:24 AM EDT
[#2]
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See, this is the problem with your theory that "maritime boundaries" are the same thing as "borders." Maritime boundaries are man-made, legal constructs that vary in their extent from 3 miles or less out to 200 or more miles, depending on their purposes and the agreement of the countries. Trying to use them as a definition of "border" is a complete clusterfuck. Honestly dude, I think you're making this more complicated than it needs to be. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:24:45 AM EDT
[#3]
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He's still better than your King. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why would this need a poll? http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1647818_Extreme_Antisemitism_taking_hold_in_Europe_again__Jews_flee_to_Israel.html&page=4 One of our Swedish members is convinced that Sweden "borders" Russia because Kaliningrad is 200 miles across the Baltic from the nearest point in Sweden. I think this is even more preposterous than Palin claiming that Russian is in her backyard. http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo306/eviegray/windowlicker.jpg http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c1c2fcc0065f972d85fe89621bdef9ad?convert_to_webp=true He's still better than your King. Ouch! This meatball is holding ground and then some 
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:25:10 AM EDT
[#4]
So Greece and Italy border Libya?
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:25:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Somebody send this daffy bitch a globe!
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:25:56 AM EDT
[#6]
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So Greece and Italy border Libya? International waters in between, so no. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:26:47 AM EDT
[#7]
Still waiting for the "Isn't Hawaii those islands off the Florida coast"
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:27:41 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So how close is close enough? See, this is the problem with your theory that "maritime boundaries" are the same thing as "borders." Maritime boundaries are man-made, legal constructs that vary in their extent from 3 miles or less out to 200 or more miles, depending on their purposes and the agreement of the countries. Trying to use them as a definition of "border" is a complete clusterfuck. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does the U.S. border Cuba? Yes. Does the U.S. border Japan? No, the distance is too great. So how close is close enough? See, this is the problem with your theory that "maritime boundaries" are the same thing as "borders." Maritime boundaries are man-made, legal constructs that vary in their extent from 3 miles or less out to 200 or more miles, depending on their purposes and the agreement of the countries. Trying to use them as a definition of "border" is a complete clusterfuck. lol, all borders are man-made. Even rivers. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:29:40 AM EDT
[#9]
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Maritime borders do not count. If you can't see the other side 
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:30:52 AM EDT
[#10]
Gilbert Islands is the ignored threat to Murican sovereignty. Has contiguous border with U.S.A.
A broad, maritimey one. But a shared border nonetheless. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:31:40 AM EDT
[#11]
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Does the U.S. border Cuba? Yes. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:31:43 AM EDT
[#12]
If you said "No." then you need to consult maps.
Hurrrrrrp duuurrrrrp. Maritime boarders = when two country's maritime territory boarders each other. If there is international waters, then there is no boarder. I think Alaska boarders Russia, if I remember right, because of this very reason. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:33:18 AM EDT
[#13]
I think this is even more preposterous than Palin claiming that Russia is in her backyard. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:33:59 AM EDT
[#14]
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If you said "No." then you need to consult maps. Hurrrrrrp duuurrrrrp. Maritime boarders = when two country's maritime territory boarders each other. If there is international waters, then there is no boarder. I think Alaska boarders Russia, if I remember right, because of this very reason. When calling people stupid about a topic, it's typically best to actually be able to SPELL said topic.
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:34:12 AM EDT
[#15]
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lol, all borders are man-made. Even rivers. If you want to get right down to it, even continents are kind of arbitrary. Seriously. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:34:26 AM EDT
[#16]
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No, the distance is too great. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does the U.S. border Cuba? Yes. Does the U.S. border Japan? No, the distance is too great. So, borders are subjective? Or is there some objective manner of defining them? |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:34:46 AM EDT
[#17]
How would an opinion poll matter for a factual question?
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:36:36 AM EDT
[#18]
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So, borders are subjective? Or is there some objective manner of defining them? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does the U.S. border Cuba? Yes. Does the U.S. border Japan? No, the distance is too great. So, borders are subjective? Or is there some objective manner of defining them? If there's international water in between, as in the case of Japan and the US, they hardly border each other, do they? This isn't rocket science. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:37:15 AM EDT
[#19]
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When calling people stupid about a topic, it's typically best to actually be able to SPELL said topic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you said "No." then you need to consult maps. Hurrrrrrp duuurrrrrp. Maritime boarders = when two country's maritime territory boarders each other. If there is international waters, then there is no boarder. I think Alaska boarders Russia, if I remember right, because of this very reason. When calling people stupid about a topic, it's typically best to actually be able to SPELL said topic. Spellcheck fails me again. :( |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:37:53 AM EDT
[#20]
Some people have way too much time on their hands...
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:39:24 AM EDT
[#21]
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Yes Martime border. So he's right. But no on land border. someone just let out a little squirt into their pants when they read that part of your post. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:40:54 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maps.....how the fuck do they work ? |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:40:57 AM EDT
[#23]
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It's just a difference in perception - not some horrible example of lack of education or intelligence. When MOST people - especially in a huge land-mass like the U.S. - think of the word "border" they often think of a land border, and so the idea that France and Britain "border" each other is a bizarre concept to many, and Sweden/Russia seems even more far-fetched. It's also pretty "easy" for Americans to think about borders, because they border Canada and Mexico, and are across the water from Russia up in the frozen north somewhere. Boom. Super-simple and easy, so there's not really any need to think about a more nuanced definition. It doesn't mean they are crazy or stupid - it's just a different perception, or something that people haven't really thought carefully about. Think about it this way - this thread may help "correct" (from your perspective) how people think about borders. 
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This is one of the most absurd arguments in the history of GD. Do we have any flat earthers here as well? It's just a difference in perception - not some horrible example of lack of education or intelligence. When MOST people - especially in a huge land-mass like the U.S. - think of the word "border" they often think of a land border, and so the idea that France and Britain "border" each other is a bizarre concept to many, and Sweden/Russia seems even more far-fetched. It's also pretty "easy" for Americans to think about borders, because they border Canada and Mexico, and are across the water from Russia up in the frozen north somewhere. Boom. Super-simple and easy, so there's not really any need to think about a more nuanced definition. It doesn't mean they are crazy or stupid - it's just a different perception, or something that people haven't really thought carefully about. Think about it this way - this thread may help "correct" (from your perspective) how people think about borders.
I sort of like the Bizzaro-Swede way of looking at it. I grew up in NJ, right on the border of England! |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:43:19 AM EDT
[#24]
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I sort of like the Bizzaro-Swede way of looking at it. I grew up in NJ, right on the border of England! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This is one of the most absurd arguments in the history of GD. Do we have any flat earthers here as well? It's just a difference in perception - not some horrible example of lack of education or intelligence. When MOST people - especially in a huge land-mass like the U.S. - think of the word "border" they often think of a land border, and so the idea that France and Britain "border" each other is a bizarre concept to many, and Sweden/Russia seems even more far-fetched. It's also pretty "easy" for Americans to think about borders, because they border Canada and Mexico, and are across the water from Russia up in the frozen north somewhere. Boom. Super-simple and easy, so there's not really any need to think about a more nuanced definition. It doesn't mean they are crazy or stupid - it's just a different perception, or something that people haven't really thought carefully about. Think about it this way - this thread may help "correct" (from your perspective) how people think about borders.
I sort of like the Bizzaro-Swede way of looking at it. I grew up in NJ, right on the border of England! Ever heard of international waters? |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:44:17 AM EDT
[#25]
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If there's international water in between, as in the case of Japan and the US, they hardly border each other, do they? This isn't rocket science. Which arbitrarily created maritime boundary are you using? 3 miles? 200 mile economic zone? An area created by a treaty that defines fishing rights? Are those uniform across the entire planet? When those irregularly shaped zones overlap, they don't form a line. It's like Venn diagram. So, where is the "border" in that case? |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:44:44 AM EDT
[#26]
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Still waiting for the "Isn't Hawaii those islands off the Florida coast" Well, Hawaii Does share a border with Florida, and don't try to say otherwise. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:46:29 AM EDT
[#27]
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Which arbitrarily created maritime boundary are you using? 3 miles? 200 mile economic zone? An area created by a treaty that defines fishing rights? Are those uniform across the entire planet? When those irregularly shaped zones overlap, they don't form a line. It's like Venn diagram. So, where is the "border" in that case? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If there's international water in between, as in the case of Japan and the US, they hardly border each other, do they? This isn't rocket science. Which arbitrarily created maritime boundary are you using? 3 miles? 200 mile economic zone? An area created by a treaty that defines fishing rights? Are those uniform across the entire planet? When those irregularly shaped zones overlap, they don't form a line. It's like Venn diagram. So, where is the "border" in that case? The border used varies by territory. In the Baltic it's mostly by treaty. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:49:02 AM EDT
[#28]
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Ever heard of international waters? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This is one of the most absurd arguments in the history of GD. Do we have any flat earthers here as well? It's just a difference in perception - not some horrible example of lack of education or intelligence. When MOST people - especially in a huge land-mass like the U.S. - think of the word "border" they often think of a land border, and so the idea that France and Britain "border" each other is a bizarre concept to many, and Sweden/Russia seems even more far-fetched. It's also pretty "easy" for Americans to think about borders, because they border Canada and Mexico, and are across the water from Russia up in the frozen north somewhere. Boom. Super-simple and easy, so there's not really any need to think about a more nuanced definition. It doesn't mean they are crazy or stupid - it's just a different perception, or something that people haven't really thought carefully about. Think about it this way - this thread may help "correct" (from your perspective) how people think about borders.
I sort of like the Bizzaro-Swede way of looking at it. I grew up in NJ, right on the border of England! Ever heard of international waters? No, those "International Waters" are owned by the US of A. Prior to WWII, they were owned by Great Britain. You'd have to go pretty far back in history for Any Nordic claims at all. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:50:25 AM EDT
[#29]
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No, those "International Waters" are owned by the US of A. Prior to WWII, they were owned by Great Britain. You'd have to go pretty far back in history for Any Nordic claims at all. lol |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:57:48 AM EDT
[#30]
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How would an opinion poll matter for a factual question? It doesn't matter. It's just hilarious watching the derp unfold as the concept of strategic and maritime borders is completely dismissed by people who's grasp on international affairs and geo-political influence is somewhere around "go 'way..... 'batin'" and "'Murica fuck yeah" as they mash their tiny e-penis into the keyboard and contemplate the fact that many have never seen a border, let alone crossed one.
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Posted: 7/24/2014 7:59:41 AM EDT
[#31]
ok wtf happened to Mr. T and who is that ugly white haired chick?
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Posted: 7/24/2014 8:01:26 AM EDT
[#32]
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It doesn't matter. It's just hilarious watching the derp unfold as the concept of strategic and maritime borders is completely dismissed by people who's grasp on international affairs and geo-political influence is somewhere around "go 'way..... 'batin'" and "'Murica fuck yeah" as they mash their tiny e-penis into the keyboard and contemplate the fact that many have never seen a border, let alone crossed one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How would an opinion poll matter for a factual question? It doesn't matter. It's just hilarious watching the derp unfold as the concept of strategic and maritime borders is completely dismissed by people who's grasp on international affairs and geo-political influence is somewhere around "go 'way..... 'batin'" and "'Murica fuck yeah" as they mash their tiny e-penis into the keyboard and contemplate the fact that many have never seen a border, let alone crossed one. I don't know what you're talking about. I'm right on the border with 100 countries every time I step onto my boat. 
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Posted: 7/24/2014 8:02:15 AM EDT
[#33]
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ok wtf happened to Mr. T and who is that ugly white haired chick? 
He's one of the greatest Kings ever. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 8:03:32 AM EDT
[#34]
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I don't know what you're talking about. I'm right on the border with 100 countries every time I step onto my boat. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How would an opinion poll matter for a factual question? It doesn't matter. It's just hilarious watching the derp unfold as the concept of strategic and maritime borders is completely dismissed by people who's grasp on international affairs and geo-political influence is somewhere around "go 'way..... 'batin'" and "'Murica fuck yeah" as they mash their tiny e-penis into the keyboard and contemplate the fact that many have never seen a border, let alone crossed one. I don't know what you're talking about. I'm right on the border with 100 countries every time I step onto my boat. What do you write on question 11F on the form 4473? |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 8:05:31 AM EDT
[#35]
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What do you write on question 11F on the form 4473? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How would an opinion poll matter for a factual question? It doesn't matter. It's just hilarious watching the derp unfold as the concept of strategic and maritime borders is completely dismissed by people who's grasp on international affairs and geo-political influence is somewhere around "go 'way..... 'batin'" and "'Murica fuck yeah" as they mash their tiny e-penis into the keyboard and contemplate the fact that many have never seen a border, let alone crossed one. I don't know what you're talking about. I'm right on the border with 100 countries every time I step onto my boat. What do you write on question 11F on the form 4473? He Lies |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 8:09:45 AM EDT
[#36]
Let's clear up some terminology.
The zones of maritime boundaries are expressed in concentric limits surrounding coastal and feature baselines.[1] Coastal waters—the zone extending 3 nm. from the baseline.[2] Territorial sea—the zone extending 12 nm. from the baseline.[2] Contiguous zone—the area extending 24 nm. from the baseline.[2] Exclusive Economic Zone—the area extending 200 nm. from the baseline except when the space between two countries is less than 400 nm.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_boundary) While this is all fun a games look for a map or Maritime boundries in the Baltic sea and see what you can find. from what i can tell there is mostly international waters and boundries of Sweden and Russia do not meet. If you can find a map showing they do, please post it. 
see no border. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 8:11:07 AM EDT
[#37]
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Let's clear up some terminology. The zones of maritime boundaries are expressed in concentric limits surrounding coastal and feature baselines.[1] Coastal waters—the zone extending 3 nm. from the baseline.[2] Territorial sea—the zone extending 12 nm. from the baseline.[2] Contiguous zone—the area extending 24 nm. from the baseline.[2] Exclusive Economic Zone—the area extending 200 nm. from the baseline except when the space between two countries is less than 400 nm.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_boundary) While this is all fun a games look for a map or Maritime boundries in the Baltic sea and see what you can find. from what i can tell there is mostly internation waters and boundries of Sweden and Russia do not meet. If you can find a map showing they do, please post it. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/Baltic_Sea_location_map.svg/502px-Baltic_Sea_location_map.svg.png see no border.
Look at your own map. See that line between Kaliningrad and Sweden? That's a maritime border. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 8:13:48 AM EDT
[#38]
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Look at your own map. See that line between Kaliningrad and Sweden? That's a maritime border. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Let's clear up some terminology. The zones of maritime boundaries are expressed in concentric limits surrounding coastal and feature baselines.[1] Coastal waters—the zone extending 3 nm. from the baseline.[2] Territorial sea—the zone extending 12 nm. from the baseline.[2] Contiguous zone—the area extending 24 nm. from the baseline.[2] Exclusive Economic Zone—the area extending 200 nm. from the baseline except when the space between two countries is less than 400 nm.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_boundary) While this is all fun a games look for a map or Maritime boundries in the Baltic sea and see what you can find. from what i can tell there is mostly internation waters and boundries of Sweden and Russia do not meet. If you can find a map showing they do, please post it. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/Baltic_Sea_location_map.svg/502px-Baltic_Sea_location_map.svg.png see no border.
Look at your own map. See that line between Kaliningrad and Sweden? That's a maritime border. You mean the one connecting it to Estonia? |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 8:15:01 AM EDT
[#39]
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You mean the one connecting it to Estonia? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Let's clear up some terminology. The zones of maritime boundaries are expressed in concentric limits surrounding coastal and feature baselines.[1] Coastal waters—the zone extending 3 nm. from the baseline.[2] Territorial sea—the zone extending 12 nm. from the baseline.[2] Contiguous zone—the area extending 24 nm. from the baseline.[2] Exclusive Economic Zone—the area extending 200 nm. from the baseline except when the space between two countries is less than 400 nm.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_boundary) While this is all fun a games look for a map or Maritime boundries in the Baltic sea and see what you can find. from what i can tell there is mostly internation waters and boundries of Sweden and Russia do not meet. If you can find a map showing they do, please post it. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/Baltic_Sea_location_map.svg/502px-Baltic_Sea_location_map.svg.png see no border.
Look at your own map. See that line between Kaliningrad and Sweden? That's a maritime border. You mean the one connecting it to Estonia?
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Posted: 7/24/2014 8:17:08 AM EDT
[#40]
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If there's international water in between, as in the case of Japan and the US, they hardly border each other, do they? This isn't rocket science. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does the U.S. border Japan? No, the distance is too great. So, borders are subjective? Or is there some objective manner of defining them? If there's international water in between, as in the case of Japan and the US, they hardly border each other, do they? This isn't rocket science. You're right. It's more like trying to nail jello to the wall.  Answer two questions for me, please.
Do you think that Sweden and Russia share a land border? Are the territorial waters of Russia in the Baltic Sea coextensive with those of Finland and Estonia? ETA: IrishTech's map, pretty much clinches it. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 8:17:09 AM EDT
[#41]
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He's one of the greatest Kings ever. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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ok wtf happened to Mr. T and who is that ugly white haired chick?
He's one of the greatest Kings ever. Mr. T?
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Posted: 7/24/2014 8:18:04 AM EDT
[#42]
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Does the U.S. border Cuba? Does Virginia border Maryland? Same concept. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 8:18:33 AM EDT
[#43]
Take this squabble with the Swede to the pit and take the damn gloves off.
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Posted: 7/24/2014 8:19:07 AM EDT
[#44]
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lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No, those "International Waters" are owned by the US of A. Prior to WWII, they were owned by Great Britain. You'd have to go pretty far back in history for Any Nordic claims at all. lol That's right. You just go ahead and sail your longboats into the North Atlantic. See how far you get. 
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Posted: 7/24/2014 8:20:00 AM EDT
[#45]
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You're right. It's more like trying to nail jello to the wall. Answer two questions for me, please.
Do you think that Sweden and Russia share a land border? No. Are the territorial waters of Russia in the Baltic Sea coextensive with those of Finland and Estonia? What do you mean? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does the U.S. border Japan? No, the distance is too great. So, borders are subjective? Or is there some objective manner of defining them? If there's international water in between, as in the case of Japan and the US, they hardly border each other, do they? This isn't rocket science. You're right. It's more like trying to nail jello to the wall. Answer two questions for me, please.
Do you think that Sweden and Russia share a land border? No. Are the territorial waters of Russia in the Baltic Sea coextensive with those of Finland and Estonia? What do you mean? |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 8:20:08 AM EDT
[#46]
Your confusion is confusing me. The Maritime boundry of Russia and Sweden to not touch on this map. From what it looks to me is that Finland and Estonia's boundry overrides Russia's and then they meet Sweden. Perhaps MS Paint is needed.
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Posted: 7/24/2014 8:20:19 AM EDT
[#47]
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Mr. T?
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ok wtf happened to Mr. T and who is that ugly white haired chick?
He's one of the greatest Kings ever. Mr. T?
He too.
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Posted: 7/24/2014 8:20:42 AM EDT
[#48]
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http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1647818_Extreme_Antisemitism_taking_hold_in_Europe_again__Jews_flee_to_Israel.html&page=4 One of our Swedish members is convinced that Sweden "borders" Russia because Kaliningrad is 200 miles across the Baltic from the nearest point in Sweden. I think this is even more preposterous than Palin claiming that Russia is in her backyard. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why would this need a poll? http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1647818_Extreme_Antisemitism_taking_hold_in_Europe_again__Jews_flee_to_Israel.html&page=4 One of our Swedish members is convinced that Sweden "borders" Russia because Kaliningrad is 200 miles across the Baltic from the nearest point in Sweden. I think this is even more preposterous than Palin claiming that Russia is in her backyard. What's the little house under your avatar mean? |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 8:20:45 AM EDT
[#49]
So how close is close enough?
See, this is the problem with your theory that "maritime boundaries" are the same thing as "borders." Maritime boundaries are man-made, legal constructs that vary in their extent from 3 miles or less out to 200 or more miles, depending on their purposes and the agreement of the countries. Trying to use them as a definition of "border" is a complete clusterfuck. Not really. Your jurisdictions do not border each other as there's international waters in between. There's the point. Well done. It's not a difficult concept, really. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 8:21:38 AM EDT
[#50]
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Your confusion is confusing me. The Maritime boundry of Russia and Sweden to not touch on this map. From what it looks to me is that Finland and Estonia's boundry overrides Russia's and then they meet Sweden. Perhaps MS Paint is needed. Look at the map. Look where Kaliningrad is. Sweden does share a border with it. |
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