User Panel
[#1]
If I remember correctly, china is bleeding manufacturing jobs now. A lot of it is moving to Vietnam, burma, Bangladesh, Cambodia, etc. This is further hurting them.
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[#2]
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China will collapse too. View Quote Yes, but their leadership is a lot more realistic about what they're doing, how they got there, and how they aim to stay on top of the pile. When the dust settles, what matters will be who has their hands on the tangible things needed to keep the modern world running. We're extremely fortunate in terms of some resources, but our leadership simply doesn't get it. Our political left is prone to magical thinking, and has no respect for what it takes to keep the lights on. They never learned any hard lessons like the Chinese did with their Great Leap Into Fucktardery. |
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[#3]
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Who the hell lent them the money to lend us? View Quote I'm not a financial expect, but it is my understanding debt equals money and is created out of whole cloth, in other words, assuming that banking in China works as it does in the west, the debt was created out of nothing by the banks, ledger entries in a computer, nothing more. The days when money was borrowed from other people's savings are long gone. So I guess you could say that they lent themselves the money and I am not sure that under a communist system the same rules apply. If the government controls the banks I suppose they could simply wipe the slate clean and start over. |
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[#4]
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[#5]
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[#6]
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[#7]
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[#8]
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Three Gorges Project? Times a million. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What are they wasting all that money on? I didn't think they had a welfare state like us. They build entire cities that go unlived in. Then they build steel foundries to do ginormous castings for bragging rights... regardless of whether they can actually get the kinds of orders that would make such an expensive facility worthwhile. Command economy at it's finest. |
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[#9]
All the "our kids need to learn Mandarin" ballwasher are surprisingly absent from this thread.
Also, been calling it for years now. And I ain't no Swedish math wizard like DK. |
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[#10]
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[#11]
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[#12]
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Three Gorges Project? Times a million. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What are they wasting all that money on? I didn't think they had a welfare state like us. Isn't the dam starting to show signs of failure? |
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[#13]
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Ghost cities? Shit tons of investment in Africa? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What are they wasting all that money on? I didn't think they had a welfare state like us. Ghost cities? Shit tons of investment in Africa? Hey, their investments in Africa are pretty damn solid, and it looks that way with the dust still in the air. Once it settles I'm sure we'll be kicking ourselves for not doing the same thing. |
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[#14]
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[#15]
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But but but everyone tells me China is way richer than us and they have all of our debt and could ruin us if they called in that debt!!!! View Quote "Hey Chinaman, how about fuck yu. Yes I mean Yu, and your mother, and you brother WU and everyone else tu." Official US response to request for immediate repayment |
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[#16]
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ETA: That is what I was wondering about. Infrastructure like highways, dams and heavy rail usually pays nice dividends. Pork filled boondoggle projects like the ever popular ghost cities, not so much. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What are they wasting all that money on? I didn't think they had a welfare state like us. ETA: Quoted:
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What are they wasting all that money on? I didn't think they had a welfare state like us. Check out the modern railroad they built to the far West provinces; that one didn't come cheap. Nor that humungous dam. That is what I was wondering about. Infrastructure like highways, dams and heavy rail usually pays nice dividends. Pork filled boondoggle projects like the ever popular ghost cities, not so much. Do you have any idea how much graft, theft, and Bullshit most of those programs are. I wouldn't ride their high speed railroad if you flew me to China and bought me a first class ticket. |
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[#17]
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The China-US sorpasso is looming. I do not mean the much-exaggerated moment when China’s GDP will overtake America's GDP – which may not happen in the lifetime of anybody reading this blog post – as China slows to more pedestrian growth rates (an objective of premier Li Keqiang.) The sorpasso may instead be the ominous moment when China’s debt ratios overtake the arch-debtor itself. I had presumed that this inflection point was still a very long way off, but a new report from Stephen Green at Standard Chartered argues that China’s aggregate debt level has reached 251 per cent of GDP, as of June. This is up 20 percentage points of GDP since late 2013. The total is much higher than normal estimates, though it tallies with what I have heard privately from officials at the IMF and the BIS. Mr Green – a highly-respected China veteran – includes total social financing (TSF), offshore cross-border bank borrowing (a story that we are going to hear a lot about), bond issuance, shadow banking of various kinds, and government debt. The ratio has risen by 100 percentage points of GDP over the last five years. As Fitch has argued out in the past, this is more than double the rise seen in Japan over the five years before the Nikkei bubble burst in 1990, or in the US before subprime blew up in 2007, or in Korea before the Asian financial crisis. It is the speed of the rise that worries credit rating agencies and regulators – including many at the Chinese central bank – as much as the volume itself. Though China is scary on both fronts. It has pushed debt to $26 trillion, more than the entire commercial banking systems of the US and Japan combined. The scale obviously has global ramifications. View Quote http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100027691/chinas-terrifying-debt-ratios-poised-to-breeze-past-us-levels/ View Quote Yeah it means more of the little fucks are gonna end up here. |
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[#18]
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China will collapse too. Their real estate market is more over leveraged than our own. When it goes, there'll be a lot of new poor people there. Most of China is poor already. They have a real 99% thing going on over there. The question in my mind is will the Commies be able to prevent a revolution when that happens? No. Hundreds of millions of Chinese are starving and live in poverty. They get shot at when they stand up to the gov. They arent just going to be ok with a simple transition. If they do, China stands to emerge as the world powerhouse this century. lol, nope. When people at the iPhone factory quit jumping out the window, and others quit risking a 30-day voyage in a conex box maybe they'll have a chance. One thing China has that we don't have here: savings and gold. If they were that well off, they wouldn't have fucked themselves like they have. Regarding savings, they can become a consumer economy much we were in the '50s. Where will they find 400 million consumers that can buy at the same rate we do? On the latter, they're very secretive as to the quantity they hold in their vaults. I'd bet a lot of their gold is spiked. They could also be bullshitting us: they do about most things. View Quote China is so fucked, their meltdown will be awesome. Quit fearing the paper dragon: it can't burn you. |
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[#19]
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Fiat currency bro, we are all borrowing from our grand children. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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wait. So, we borrowed money from them. But they have more debt than us? Who the hell lent them the money to lend us? Fiat currency bro, we are all borrowing from our grand children. Borrowing. Right. |
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[#20]
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[#21]
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China will collapse too. Their real estate market is more over leveraged than our own. When it goes, there'll be a lot of new poor people there. The question in my mind is will the Commies be able to prevent a revolution when that happens? If they do, China stands to emerge as the world powerhouse this century. One thing China has that we don't have here: savings and gold. Regarding savings, they can become a consumer economy much we were in the '50s. On the latter, they're very secretive as to the quantity they hold in their vaults. View Quote China is pretty broadly fucked in a lot of ways if their little house of cards collapses. |
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[#22]
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[#23]
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Check out the modern railroad they built to the far West provinces; that one didn't come cheap. Nor that humungous dam. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What are they wasting all that money on? I didn't think they had a welfare state like us. Check out the modern railroad they built to the far West provinces; that one didn't come cheap. Nor that humungous dam. That dam makes me grin a little. Let's put several million (billion?) of our people at risk of our construction techniques. |
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[#24]
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That dam makes me grin a little. Let's put several million (billion?) of our people at risk of our construction techniques. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What are they wasting all that money on? I didn't think they had a welfare state like us. Check out the modern railroad they built to the far West provinces; that one didn't come cheap. Nor that humungous dam. That dam makes me grin a little. Let's put several million (billion?) of our people at risk of our construction techniques. /\ Thats one way to get rid of the people you want to "disappear" - lets move em downstream of the damn |
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[#25]
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Check out the modern railroad they built to the far West provinces; that one didn't come cheap. Nor that humungous dam. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What are they wasting all that money on? I didn't think they had a welfare state like us. Check out the modern railroad they built to the far West provinces; that one didn't come cheap. Nor that humungous dam. They needed to build the damn because a flood in the 98 killed over 1500 people and billions of dollars in damage as well as displacing like 2.3 million. |
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[#26]
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[#27]
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[#28]
My wife has a friend who spent a lot of time living in China. She got a masters degree in the Mandarin language.
Anyway, she told us almost 15 years ago that people in China were being encouraged by the government to invest their life savings (whatever they had) into the Chinese markets. They've been inflating themselves for years. Then there are the massive ghost cities, etc. Their economy has been a big bubble for some time. |
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[#29]
China has capital controls - it's extremely difficult to find somewhere to put your money if you're remotely wealthy.
Real estate is big there for that reason. If you've got $1b USD, would you rather have it invested in real estate that might be overvalued by 200%, or would you keep it in instruments denominated in RMB? |
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[#30]
Quoted:
The China-US sorpasso is looming. I do not mean the much-exaggerated moment when China’s GDP will overtake America's GDP – which may not happen in the lifetime of anybody reading this blog post – as China slows to more pedestrian growth rates (an objective of premier Li Keqiang.) The sorpasso may instead be the ominous moment when China’s debt ratios overtake the arch-debtor itself. I had presumed that this inflection point was still a very long way off, but a new report from Stephen Green at Standard Chartered argues that China’s aggregate debt level has reached 251 per cent of GDP, as of June. This is up 20 percentage points of GDP since late 2013. The total is much higher than normal estimates, though it tallies with what I have heard privately from officials at the IMF and the BIS. Mr Green – a highly-respected China veteran – includes total social financing (TSF), offshore cross-border bank borrowing (a story that we are going to hear a lot about), bond issuance, shadow banking of various kinds, and government debt. The ratio has risen by 100 percentage points of GDP over the last five years. As Fitch has argued out in the past, this is more than double the rise seen in Japan over the five years before the Nikkei bubble burst in 1990, or in the US before subprime blew up in 2007, or in Korea before the Asian financial crisis. It is the speed of the rise that worries credit rating agencies and regulators – including many at the Chinese central bank – as much as the volume itself. Though China is scary on both fronts. It has pushed debt to $26 trillion, more than the entire commercial banking systems of the US and Japan combined. The scale obviously has global ramifications. View Quote http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100027691/chinas-terrifying-debt-ratios-poised-to-breeze-past-us-levels/ View Quote They have the economy to support it. |
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[#31]
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The China-US sorpasso is looming. I do not mean the much-exaggerated moment when China’s GDP will overtake America's GDP – which may not happen in the lifetime of anybody reading this blog post – as China slows to more pedestrian growth rates (an objective of premier Li Keqiang.) The sorpasso may instead be the ominous moment when China’s debt ratios overtake the arch-debtor itself. I had presumed that this inflection point was still a very long way off, but a new report from Stephen Green at Standard Chartered argues that China’s aggregate debt level has reached 251 per cent of GDP, as of June. This is up 20 percentage points of GDP since late 2013. The total is much higher than normal estimates, though it tallies with what I have heard privately from officials at the IMF and the BIS. Mr Green – a highly-respected China veteran – includes total social financing (TSF), offshore cross-border bank borrowing (a story that we are going to hear a lot about), bond issuance, shadow banking of various kinds, and government debt. The ratio has risen by 100 percentage points of GDP over the last five years. As Fitch has argued out in the past, this is more than double the rise seen in Japan over the five years before the Nikkei bubble burst in 1990, or in the US before subprime blew up in 2007, or in Korea before the Asian financial crisis. It is the speed of the rise that worries credit rating agencies and regulators – including many at the Chinese central bank – as much as the volume itself. Though China is scary on both fronts. It has pushed debt to $26 trillion, more than the entire commercial banking systems of the US and Japan combined. The scale obviously has global ramifications. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100027691/chinas-terrifying-debt-ratios-poised-to-breeze-past-us-levels/ They have the economy to support it. WTF brand of CRACK COCAINE are you smoking. Their whole damn economy is smoke and mirrors. |
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[#32]
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[#33]
You know, I heard this a while back and I was really blown away.
Disappointed too. I may have to rethink all of my China cheer leading. |
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