Hello all, I'm new to the forum (and AR's) and was hoping to get some advice.

I found an awesome AR pistol on Armslist and after talking to the seller, met with him to buy it. He was extremely friendly guy, said he used to be in the Marines and how he built this to be an awesome gun (I have a great amount of respect for our troops and felt extremely comfortable with the transaction after hearing this). We ended up talking for about half an hour, first about the gun and then firearms in general. I looked the gun over while I was there and it was clean and looked like the pictures. It wasn't until I got home and began doing more research that I realized I had been played. The ad listed the following parts for the gun:

1. San Tan Tactical Lower
2. Spikes Tactical upper with 7.5" barrel and  YHM quad rail and FDE rail covers
3. Noveske KX3 Flaming Pig muzzle brake
4. FDE pistol grip
5. Phase 5 pistol buffer tube
6. Sig arm brace
7. Geissele Automatics comp trigger
8. Aimpoint CompM3 with FDE armor
9. FDE AFG
10. 1 PMAG

He claimed the gun had 30 rounds through it and he was getting rid of it because his wife told him he had to consolidate his toy collection after bought a motorcycle. He said the gun cycles flawlessly. The excitement of purchasing my first AR overwhelmed me and I overlooked some details. When we met I checked out the Aimpoint mount, batter casing, glass, and number of settings and it checked out. Also opened it up, took out the BCG and checked out the bore - it was spotless. Visually saw the Flaming Pig extending just a little bit past the hand guard, the Sig brace was there, all is well in my mind. I got home and broke the gun down and that's when I noticed the first discrepancy:

1. The trigger. No "G" stamped on it. Being new to the AR world, I didn't think to look at the internals of the trigger when I broke down the gun when I met the seller. The trigger is a basic mil-spec one, not a Geissele. Now I'm suspicious and start scouring the internet for every part on the gun.

2. The muzzle brake. The Flaming Pig only extends a quarter inch past the hand guard. I get a flashlight and inspect to see it has no markings anywhere on it. No pig, no Noveske logo, no serial number. Took it apart and does look like a real one when broken down.

3. The upper. Never seen a Spikes upper in person. The upper on the AR pistol only has a keyhole-shaped mark on the right side which I identified as a Cerro forge marking. It does not have the Spike's spider on the top or t-marks.

4. The Aimpoint. I take off the rubber armor and on the side it says "CompM2." 99% sure it's still real, just isn't an M3 like the seller said.

So now I have the gun and not sure what to do next. I want to contact him and just ask if I can have my money back and I'll give him back the gun. I doubt it will be that easy.
The only info I have on him is his first name, phone number, and license plate number. The guy just posted another ad up today for his Glock that he told me about. He also does custom gunsmith work and advertises on Armslist. When we met FTF he told me about how he's trying to build his gunsmith side business and is looking into getting his FFL to make transactions and shipping things easier. Not sure what steps I should take - Flag his posts on Armslist, file a claim in small claims court, file a police report for fraudulent ad (this probably won't amount to anything), contact the ATF and notify them about the sale, his side business and his effort to get his FFL. What do you guys think?

Thanks in advance for the advice!

Not as advertised? Ask him to make him right. If you want to keep the gun, figure out an equitable partial refund. If not, full refund.



Legal remedies are also available - IE small claims court, or criminal report.



That said, Caveat Emptor.

I would just try to learn from the mistake and move on. It wouldn't hurt to contact him, but it may be hard to get any kind of positive outcome out of it since you both agreed to the deal and you gave him cash FTF.
Welcome to the site.

I think your first mistake was a 7.5" "pistol" as your first AR.

That aside, the Noveske KX3 was also available without logos as an option.  I used to have one.  The trigger may be one of the newer low-cost Geissele offerings.  I think they are around $45 or so and I don't believe they have a "G" on them.  I think they just clean up the surfaces on a mil-spec trigger to optimize it, more or less.

Honestly, I doubt you have very much recourse other than going back through Armslist's feedback process. The M2 instead of M3 Aimpoint (but it looks like street price is pretty close between the two) and the lack of the advertised Geissele trigger (every one I have seen is pretty well marked) are the two items that really stand out. The upper may indeed be Spike's (Cerro makes forgings for many AR producers and my complete Spike's upper is not "spider" marked anywhere).

Contact the seller and see if he will make it right. He will probably say that you had an opportunity to inspect so the sale is final. If so, leave negative feedback through Armslist. It sucks but at some point you may have to breathe-in, breathe-out and move-on.

How much did you pay for what you got?

Enjoy your new toy, and welcome to the board.

That Geissele trigger by itself is a $250 discrepancy.

No it doesn't. Geissele triggers range from $45 to $250.

If it's a milspec trigger, it could still be a trigger optimized by Geissele

Oh snap! I forgot to add:

Join date, post count

The Geiselle G2S trigger isn't laser engraved like the rest, it just looks like it just has a little G on the trigger itself. Could that be it?

There is no feedback on Armslist. It operates the same as Craigslist.

Like it's been said, your first AR is a used pistol from Armslist. You hosed yourself right there.

When I read Geissele Comp trigger, I don't think of a $45 ALG trigger...

M2/M3, ehh, some people are idiots.

Could the flaming pig be those new aluminum $40 knock offs? take it off and weigh it. The Pig is steel.

Good luck

ETA: afg on a 7.5" lulz

Aren't those triggers made and sold by ALG Defense?



Even though it is the sister company to Geissele, it is not a Geissele trigger.



 

The early Giessele's did not have a "G" stamped on the trigger, nor were they laser engraved.

Geissele triggers don't look like your average mil-spec trigger group.  It should take 2 seconds to tell what it is whether it has an engraving or not.

LOL that's funny.  He needs the FFL before doing any gunsmithing work to keep himself on the correct side of legal, especially if he's dumb enough to be advertising his services on Armslist.

Thanks for the responses so far everyone. Like many of you said, I think this will end up with little recourse and a lesson learned.


I knew I would get flak for this . Seems like people either love them or hate them. All the ranges around me are only 25 yards with the exception of one (100 yards), but its pretty far away. Due to the short range shooting, I didn't think I really needed a full size AR.


Ended up getting it for $1,000 after talking him down from $1,300. His made it pretty clear that his wife was pressuring him to get rid of it quickly.


I called him and he actually answered so that's a good start I guess. He was at work though and said he'll text me back to address questions/issues.


Did some more research since my post. The hammer has two squares with an "S" in each. Other people on the web said this is indicative of a Stag lower parts kit.


Couldn't find a "G" anywhere on it. Just a small circle.

Sorry OP, you got hustled.

Yeah, should've done this from the get go.

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh569/FNPforME/7DF37E28-E5AF-4465-813B-1E53A022563F_zpsy4bn5s0p.jpg

Trigger
http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh569/FNPforME/A3F160C0-6F83-4875-903F-105F5E3CDF71_zpshov4cxee.jpg

Flaming Pig
http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh569/FNPforME/A3D20594-15B9-4AB5-BC2F-7E7E40D64AEA_zpsjrsy3rvo.jpg

Yeah, I thought this seemed a little strange.

probably just an ALG trigger which i wouldnt advertise as geiselle, big money difference there

That is an ALG trigger. I have two with the same markings.

If you already talked him down $300 and paid $1000 for the set up pictured, then if day you got a decent deal.

Not sure if it was mentioned, but Armslist does have a chat forum for calling out crooks.

meh not a terrible deal on that gun regardless of possible discrepancies.

Does not look like an ALG Hammer.



The markings on it are, from what I have read, the markings for LW Schneider, a small parts manufacturer.  Quite a few manufacturers use their parts, including hammers.



 

Correct....



 

This. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

For what it's worth, that is the same trigger marking that is in my Colt and Daniel Defense rifles from the factory.

I'm in for the ride. Interested in what his response will be.

It might be the QMS trigger from ALG Defense. It's hard to tell from the pictures if it's silver or,black, but the hammer looks exactly like the ALG triggers I have.

Caveat emptor

Likewise. I'll keep you guys posted.

You live and you learn.

You didn't get THAT bad of a deal.

That being said, I would have opted for a carbine or mid length AR over the pistol as my first AR.

Interesting.  Every ALG FCG I've seen comes with the 'fat' hammer, not the notched style.



Got pics of yours?



 

let the buyer beware:
the principle that the seller of a product cannot be held responsible for its quality unless it is guaranteed in a warranty.

I think as long as the Aimpoint is a legit Aimpoint then 1k isn't too bad at all for what you got. If you would have paid the original $1300 then I'd say you got bent over but like others have said, in the end of the day I don't think you made out too bad.

Same markings as the ALG QMS trigger I got from PSA.  If the sear surfaces are really well honed, then it's probably legit.  The hammer and trigger pins should have 3 grooves in them, too.



ETA:  My Doublestar LPK has the same hammer, too.





 

QMS pic from ALG Website:





 

Yeah.  Does not look like the hammer in OP's pic..



Nevermind - I'm seeing the bolt catch and thinking it's part of the hammer.  DeRp...





 

Looks like you got the older San Tan lower with the backwards flag.

I agree the deal was good. I think I would be happy with that purchase

So he white lied some of the parts. Still a good deal at $1000

Looks like an ALG Combat Trigger.  'Sort o'f a Geissele.

Nice looking set up OP, I think you did okay on the deal. Shoot it and have fun with it, don't look back. You still might have a chat with the seller though.

Gunsmith side business without an FFL.

It would be cool if that were legal.

With the price paid and knowing he was not truthful about the trigger, possibly dishonest about the muzzle brake & upper, I'd suspect the Aimpoint was fake until proven otherwise.  

That would be the deciding factor on how far I would pursue this matter.

Getting the FFL is the easy part of being a successful gunsmith.

Looks like an ALG ACT trigger, a $65.00 retail item. They sell those fake Novekse "PIG" on ebay.



 

Yep. They're faked a lot, and since he wasn't truthful about some of the other parts, the Aimpoint would get a lot of attention from me. I don't know the definitive ways to tell real from Chinese, but hopefully someone here can help you with that.

If it's a real Aimpoint, I'd be happy with the gun/price as-is. No excuse for him intentionally misleading you, though, regardless of price.

I've done quite a bit of digging online and from what I can tell it checks out.
A few things I've noted about it are: 9 settings (first 4 for night vision can't even see), the nob does not turn to the "off" position from setting 9, the threads are fine and not large like cheep Chinese optics, the front lens is slightly angled, has "Aimpoint" stamped on side, appropriate "Comp M2" marking followed by the serial number with "Made in Sweden" underneath, and the battery has the black pad behind it.

Only thing that still concerns me is the battery cap. Mine seems to have a rather long one.

ETA: I asked him to bring the box for the Aimpoint and he said he no longer had it.

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh569/FNPforME/688DB806-A0E5-4DEB-B63B-F70B1577D0DA_zpsmxbjhdzz.jpg

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh569/FNPforME/EE126020-F636-46CC-8AFE-CC5A3A5C0FD1_zpszudwloyz.jpg

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh569/FNPforME/E25246A4-C7FF-4BE9-A4AD-C94FD194348D_zpsrw0ps6ju.jpg

Looks like a ALG ACT.

I would definitely do at least the Armslist complaint so that other possible buyers know to avoid the dude.