Church Security, with the upswing in violence against Christians in America have you changed your... - Page 3

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Church Security, with the upswing in violence against Christians in America have you changed your... (Page 3 of 6)

Posted: 7/22/2014 7:40:58 AM EDT

[#1]

The upswing in violence against Christians, in America?

What?

Seriously, what?

Posted: 7/22/2014 7:41:23 AM EDT

[#2]

My church has layers, outside and in. I would imagine more than a few of the Bible bags are not carrying the Bible.

Posted: 7/22/2014 7:43:06 AM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:

View Quote

[/tbody]

[tbody]

[/tbody]

[tbody]

[/tbody]

Deadly Force Incidents (DFI's) at Faith-Based Organizations in the United States (includes abductions, attacks, suspicious deaths, suicides and deadly force intervention / protection)
DATA CURRENT for time period 1/1/1999 through 2/01/14	NUM	%
TOTAL DFI's (Deadly Force Incidents)	792
NUMBER OF DFI's WHERE THE "ATTACK RESULTED IN DEATH OF OTHERS" (ARDO)	298	37.63%

Total known (generally accepted as known) attack triggers	619
Domestic Spillover (Domestic relationship violence that found it's way onto ministry property and resulted in a DFI)	103	16.64%
Personal Conflict (disagreement between 2 or more un-domestic-related people that erupted into a deadly force incident)	85	13.73%
Robbery	148	23.91%
Gang related (Gang or potential gang related that included drugs are in drugs category). It is reasonable to assume many of the PC and robbery cases were gang-related as well, but cannot be confirmed	64	10.34%
Confirmed drug related	14	2.26%
Confirmed mental illness	65	10.50%
Religious Bias (against any form of religion)	42	6.79%
Random and other (including rare triggers)	98	15.83%

Number of DFI's occurring based upon the TOP 3 known single issue triggers --(Domestic Violence, Personal conflict and robbery)	336	54.28%

Total incident weapons known (some attacks had more than one weapon)	817	%
Gun	472	57.77%
Knife (or other stabbing weapon)	141	17.26%
Auto	30	3.67%
Explosives (includes Molotov Cocktails)	48	5.88%
Other (poison, beating, hanging, fire, various objects)	126	15.42%

Victim Statistics (not including suicide)
Total killed and injured	884
Killed	376	42.53%
Injured	508	57.47%
Male victims (killed)	239	63.56%
Female victims (killed)	146	38.83%

Aggressor Statistics
Total known (even if known only by description) aggressors	788
Male	722	91.62%
Female	66	8.38%
Affiliated (member, past member, employee, volunteer) with ministry	190	24.11%

Total aggressors (including those without even a description) and their status	933
Suicide	76	8.15%
KIA	27	2.89%
Arrested	495	53.05%
Unknown or at-large	335	35.91%

Incident Statistics
Occurred inside the building	256	32.74%
Occurred outside on ministry property or activity location	526	67.26%
Occurred during event	313	40.13%
Occurred in off hours	467	59.87%
Single attacker	460	72.56%
Multiple attackers	174	27.44%

Total deadly force incident stats by year
Year	Total deaths (Homicide, suicide, unsolved suspicious and aggressors killed in action)	Total Incidents
1999	22	10
2000	9	6
2001	4	6
2002	11	9
2003	10	8
2004	3	4
2005	19	10
2006	30	27
2007	39	41
2008	50	64
2009	54	108
2010	52	102
2011	49	107
2012	76	139
2013	45	132
2014	6	19
TOTAL DEADLY FORCE DEATHS and INCIDENTS SINCE 1/01/1999	479	792

So, like 32 incidents a year. In the entire country. And that is not Christians, but all faiths.

That is one weekend in Chicago.

Posted: 7/22/2014 7:43:31 AM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
Our pastor has no problem with CCW, so we are good to go

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this, as an usher we were told if you have a CCW you better be carrying.

Posted: 7/22/2014 7:43:34 AM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:

I use to live in texas, you are dead wrong. It is one of the places specifically forbidden to ccw. There is no fine print. You are taking a major chance of losing your ccw..

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Isn't church CCW still against the law in Texas?

On it's face it looks like that, but fine print says that it must be legally posted. The law allows Churches restrict CCW, but the default is unrestricted. I have never seen a Church posted.

That said, there are gray areas (where Concealed means concealed). Take a Church I sometimes attend. They have a school - school carry IS illegal. What happens when I go to a Church function that happens to be happening in a school building one week? What happens if it is not a school building, but sometimes used by the school - just not right now. In my issue my group meets 6am to 7:30, but a room in the same building is used for daycare at 8am - and the room I use is probably used as needed by every church group - including the school.

There have been times, however, due to school use of the community center - that we have met in the school cafeteria (again hours before it is used as the school cafeteria). I am no lawyer - but without looking at the deed, I am hoping the community center is owned by the Church and not by the School - and my ccw stays in my car if we walk to the cafeteria (which is almost certainly owned by the school).

I use to live in texas, you are dead wrong. It is one of the places specifically forbidden to ccw. There is no fine print. You are taking a major chance of losing your ccw..

wtf Texas

I thought you guys were all about guns

I can carry in church here. Openly even if it didn't freak everyone out.

Posted: 7/22/2014 7:44:59 AM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:

I don't know about increasing violence, but I remember several stories of shootings at churches.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
The premise of increasing violence against Christian churches in the USA is not believable. Where is the proof?

I am not referring to Christian churches in ISIS held Iraq.

I don't know about increasing violence, but I remember several stories of shootings at churches.

There are more shootings at bars across America.

What are we doing about the upswing in violence against drunks?

Posted: 7/22/2014 7:45:09 AM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
swat team

lol

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Must be a Joel Osteen mega-church.

Posted: 7/22/2014 7:47:08 AM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
This thread needs more Crusaders and Templar Knights

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Will The anti catholic bias allow that?

Posted: 7/22/2014 7:47:32 AM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:

I use to live in texas, you are dead wrong. It is one of the places specifically forbidden to ccw. There is no fine print. You are taking a major chance of losing your ccw..

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Isn't church CCW still against the law in Texas?

On it's face it looks like that, but fine print says that it must be legally posted. The law allows Churches restrict CCW, but the default is unrestricted. I have never seen a Church posted.

I use to live in texas, you are dead wrong. It is one of the places specifically forbidden to ccw. There is no fine print. You are taking a major chance of losing your ccw..

Nope, you are 100% wrong.

The law is just as mousehunter stated.

Posted: 7/22/2014 7:50:15 AM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:

wtf Texas

I thought you guys were all about guns

I can carry in church here. Openly even if it didn't freak everyone out.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Isn't church CCW still against the law in Texas?

On it's face it looks like that, but fine print says that it must be legally posted. The law allows Churches restrict CCW, but the default is unrestricted. I have never seen a Church posted.

That said, there are gray areas (where Concealed means concealed). Take a Church I sometimes attend. They have a school - school carry IS illegal. What happens when I go to a Church function that happens to be happening in a school building one week? What happens if it is not a school building, but sometimes used by the school - just not right now. In my issue my group meets 6am to 7:30, but a room in the same building is used for daycare at 8am - and the room I use is probably used as needed by every church group - including the school.

There have been times, however, due to school use of the community center - that we have met in the school cafeteria (again hours before it is used as the school cafeteria). I am no lawyer - but without looking at the deed, I am hoping the community center is owned by the Church and not by the School - and my ccw stays in my car if we walk to the cafeteria (which is almost certainly owned by the school).

I use to live in texas, you are dead wrong. It is one of the places specifically forbidden to ccw. There is no fine print. You are taking a major chance of losing your ccw..

wtf Texas

I thought you guys were all about guns

I can carry in church here. Openly even if it didn't freak everyone out.

or you know, you could READ THE ACTUAL STATUTE THAT HAS BEEN POSTED AND QUOTED MULTIPLE TIMES.

Carry in a church is legal in the state of Texas unless you are asked not to carry either by direct request or the presentation of very specific signage at the entries.

Posted: 7/22/2014 7:51:18 AM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:

[/tbody]

Deadly Force Incidents (DFI's) at Faith-Based Organizations in the United States (includes abductions, attacks, suspicious deaths, suicides and deadly force intervention / protection)
DATA CURRENT for time period 1/1/1999 through 2/01/14	NUM	%
TOTAL DFI's (Deadly Force Incidents)	792
NUMBER OF DFI's WHERE THE "ATTACK RESULTED IN DEATH OF OTHERS" (ARDO)	298	37.63%

Total known (generally accepted as known) attack triggers	619
Domestic Spillover (Domestic relationship violence that found it's way onto ministry property and resulted in a DFI)	103	16.64%
Personal Conflict (disagreement between 2 or more un-domestic-related people that erupted into a deadly force incident)	85	13.73%
Robbery	148	23.91%
Gang related (Gang or potential gang related that included drugs are in drugs category). It is reasonable to assume many of the PC and robbery cases were gang-related as well, but cannot be confirmed	64	10.34%
Confirmed drug related	14	2.26%
Confirmed mental illness	65	10.50%
Religious Bias (against any form of religion)	42	6.79%
Random and other (including rare triggers)	98	15.83%

Number of DFI's occurring based upon the TOP 3 known single issue triggers --(Domestic Violence, Personal conflict and robbery)	336	54.28%

Total incident weapons known (some attacks had more than one weapon)	817	%
Gun	472	57.77%
Knife (or other stabbing weapon)	141	17.26%
Auto	30	3.67%
Explosives (includes Molotov Cocktails)	48	5.88%
Other (poison, beating, hanging, fire, various objects)	126	15.42%

Victim Statistics (not including suicide)
Total killed and injured	884
Killed	376	42.53%
Injured	508	57.47%
Male victims (killed)	239	63.56%
Female victims (killed)	146	38.83%

Aggressor Statistics
Total known (even if known only by description) aggressors	788
Male	722	91.62%
Female	66	8.38%
Affiliated (member, past member, employee, volunteer) with ministry	190	24.11%

Total aggressors (including those without even a description) and their status	933
Suicide	76	8.15%
KIA	27	2.89%
Arrested	495	53.05%
Unknown or at-large	335	35.91%

Incident Statistics
Occurred inside the building	256	32.74%
Occurred outside on ministry property or activity location	526	67.26%
Occurred during event	313	40.13%
Occurred in off hours	467	59.87%
Single attacker	460	72.56%
Multiple attackers	174	27.44%

Total deadly force incident stats by year
Year	Total deaths (Homicide, suicide, unsolved suspicious and aggressors killed in action)	Total Incidents
1999	22	10
2000	9	6
2001	4	6
2002	11	9
2003	10	8
2004	3	4
2005	19	10
2006	30	27
2007	39	41
2008	50	64
2009	54	108
2010	52	102
2011	49	107
2012	76	139
2013	45	132
2014	6	19
TOTAL DEADLY FORCE DEATHS and INCIDENTS SINCE 1/01/1999	479	792

View Quote

Those stats are from Grant at M4C who sells his services as an armed church invasion consultant

Posted: 7/22/2014 7:51:20 AM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
This just proves to me that a shit load of you guys actively Fantasize about some Red Dawn/zombie/end times deathfest where the fatties with hobby grade AR's save the world. Yes the evil mooslim hoarded are going to attack your megachurch

yoooooool JOE!

View Quote

Actually, I believe the threat lies in a disgruntled exspouse. Especially one who comes to take children from the nursery.
Your mileage, as well as your own personal sarcasm and delusions, may vary.

Posted: 7/22/2014 7:54:11 AM EDT

[#13]

Nevermind. the chart loaded wonky on my computer

Posted: 7/22/2014 7:56:32 AM EDT

[#14]

many incidents do not get reported to the local PDs, unless someone was arrested or harmed. many churches have security incidents that are resolved by the staff. in just the last year I saw a young man dressed camo ignore staff and attempt to access the area where the young children were, staff stopped him and escorted him off property.

woman that had a restraining order against her, brought a handgun to church. Staff handled it

woman started screaming in the middle of the service, was escorted out and then started screaming and headed to the children's area and had to be restrained by deputies

in the past I have seen a drug crazed woman pull a fillet knife in an attempt to attack the pastor and she was promptly taken down by security.

Posted: 7/22/2014 7:56:45 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:

Actually, I believe the threat lies in a disgruntled exspouse. Especially one who comes to take children from the nursery.
Your mileage, as well as your own personal sarcasm and delusions, may vary.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
This just proves to me that a shit load of you guys actively Fantasize about some Red Dawn/zombie/end times deathfest where the fatties with hobby grade AR's save the world. Yes the evil mooslim hoarded are going to attack your megachurch

yoooooool JOE!

Actually, I believe the threat lies in a disgruntled exspouse. Especially one who comes to take children from the nursery.
Your mileage, as well as your own personal sarcasm and delusions, may vary.

We have children join is in services not put them in nursery

Disgruntled ex can happen anywhere. This swat team and SBR stuff is

What are these churches doing that is causing people to want to destroy them?

The synagogues around here just request an extra police patrol. They get the worst "violence" by far. Usually some asshole tossing pork products or spray painting a swastika on the door.

Posted: 7/22/2014 7:57:28 AM EDT

[#16]

Never mind. Thread is OT already.

Posted: 7/22/2014 7:57:53 AM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
many incidents do not get reported to the local PDs, unless someone was arrested or harmed. many churches have security incidents that are resolved by the staff. in just the last year I saw a young man dressed camo ignore staff and attempt to access the area where the young children were, staff stopped him and escorted him off property.

woman that had a restraining order against her, brought a handgun to church. Staff handled it

woman started screaming in the middle of the service, was escorted out and then started screaming and headed to the children's area and had to be restrained by deputies

in the past I have seen a drug crazed woman pull a fillet knife in an attempt to attack the pastor and she was promptly taken down by security.

View Quote

You didn't involve LE in those incidents?

Posted: 7/22/2014 7:59:27 AM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:

[/tbody][tbody][/tbody][tbody][/tbody]

[tbody]

[/tbody]

Deadly Force Incidents (DFI's) at Faith-Based Organizations in the United States (includes abductions, attacks, suspicious deaths, suicides and deadly force intervention / protection)
DATA CURRENT for time period 1/1/1999 through 2/01/14	NUM	%
TOTAL DFI's (Deadly Force Incidents)	792
NUMBER OF DFI's WHERE THE "ATTACK RESULTED IN DEATH OF OTHERS" (ARDO)	298	37.63%

Total known (generally accepted as known) attack triggers	619
Domestic Spillover (Domestic relationship violence that found it's way onto ministry property and resulted in a DFI)	103	16.64%
Personal Conflict (disagreement between 2 or more un-domestic-related people that erupted into a deadly force incident)	85	13.73%
Robbery	148	23.91%
Gang related (Gang or potential gang related that included drugs are in drugs category). It is reasonable to assume many of the PC and robbery cases were gang-related as well, but cannot be confirmed	64	10.34%
Confirmed drug related	14	2.26%
Confirmed mental illness	65	10.50%
Religious Bias (against any form of religion)	42	6.79%
Random and other (including rare triggers)	98	15.83%

Number of DFI's occurring based upon the TOP 3 known single issue triggers --(Domestic Violence, Personal conflict and robbery)	336	54.28%

Total incident weapons known (some attacks had more than one weapon)	817	%
Gun	472	57.77%
Knife (or other stabbing weapon)	141	17.26%
Auto	30	3.67%
Explosives (includes Molotov Cocktails)	48	5.88%
Other (poison, beating, hanging, fire, various objects)	126	15.42%

Victim Statistics (not including suicide)
Total killed and injured	884
Killed	376	42.53%
Injured	508	57.47%
Male victims (killed)	239	63.56%
Female victims (killed)	146	38.83%

Aggressor Statistics
Total known (even if known only by description) aggressors	788
Male	722	91.62%
Female	66	8.38%
Affiliated (member, past member, employee, volunteer) with ministry	190	24.11%

Total aggressors (including those without even a description) and their status	933
Suicide	76	8.15%
KIA	27	2.89%
Arrested	495	53.05%
Unknown or at-large	335	35.91%

Incident Statistics
Occurred inside the building	256	32.74%
Occurred outside on ministry property or activity location	526	67.26%
Occurred during event	313	40.13%
Occurred in off hours	467	59.87%
Single attacker	460	72.56%
Multiple attackers	174	27.44%

Total deadly force incident stats by year
Year	Total deaths (Homicide, suicide, unsolved suspicious and aggressors killed in action)	Total Incidents
1999	22	10
2000	9	6
2001	4	6
2002	11	9
2003	10	8
2004	3	4
2005	19	10
2006	30	27
2007	39	41
2008	50	64
2009	54	108
2010	52	102
2011	49	107
2012	76	139
2013	45	132
2014	6	19
TOTAL DEADLY FORCE DEATHS and INCIDENTS SINCE 1/01/1999	479	792

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

[/tbody][tbody][/tbody][tbody][/tbody]

[tbody]

[/tbody]

Deadly Force Incidents (DFI's) at Faith-Based Organizations in the United States (includes abductions, attacks, suspicious deaths, suicides and deadly force intervention / protection)
DATA CURRENT for time period 1/1/1999 through 2/01/14	NUM	%
TOTAL DFI's (Deadly Force Incidents)	792
NUMBER OF DFI's WHERE THE "ATTACK RESULTED IN DEATH OF OTHERS" (ARDO)	298	37.63%

Total known (generally accepted as known) attack triggers	619
Domestic Spillover (Domestic relationship violence that found it's way onto ministry property and resulted in a DFI)	103	16.64%
Personal Conflict (disagreement between 2 or more un-domestic-related people that erupted into a deadly force incident)	85	13.73%
Robbery	148	23.91%
Gang related (Gang or potential gang related that included drugs are in drugs category). It is reasonable to assume many of the PC and robbery cases were gang-related as well, but cannot be confirmed	64	10.34%
Confirmed drug related	14	2.26%
Confirmed mental illness	65	10.50%
Religious Bias (against any form of religion)	42	6.79%
Random and other (including rare triggers)	98	15.83%

Number of DFI's occurring based upon the TOP 3 known single issue triggers --(Domestic Violence, Personal conflict and robbery)	336	54.28%

Total incident weapons known (some attacks had more than one weapon)	817	%
Gun	472	57.77%
Knife (or other stabbing weapon)	141	17.26%
Auto	30	3.67%
Explosives (includes Molotov Cocktails)	48	5.88%
Other (poison, beating, hanging, fire, various objects)	126	15.42%

Victim Statistics (not including suicide)
Total killed and injured	884
Killed	376	42.53%
Injured	508	57.47%
Male victims (killed)	239	63.56%
Female victims (killed)	146	38.83%

Aggressor Statistics
Total known (even if known only by description) aggressors	788
Male	722	91.62%
Female	66	8.38%
Affiliated (member, past member, employee, volunteer) with ministry	190	24.11%

Total aggressors (including those without even a description) and their status	933
Suicide	76	8.15%
KIA	27	2.89%
Arrested	495	53.05%
Unknown or at-large	335	35.91%

Incident Statistics
Occurred inside the building	256	32.74%
Occurred outside on ministry property or activity location	526	67.26%
Occurred during event	313	40.13%
Occurred in off hours	467	59.87%
Single attacker	460	72.56%
Multiple attackers	174	27.44%

Total deadly force incident stats by year
Year	Total deaths (Homicide, suicide, unsolved suspicious and aggressors killed in action)	Total Incidents
1999	22	10
2000	9	6
2001	4	6
2002	11	9
2003	10	8
2004	3	4
2005	19	10
2006	30	27
2007	39	41
2008	50	64
2009	54	108
2010	52	102
2011	49	107
2012	76	139
2013	45	132
2014	6	19
TOTAL DEADLY FORCE DEATHS and INCIDENTS SINCE 1/01/1999	479	792

So, like 32 incidents a year. In the entire country. And that is not Christians, but all faiths.

That is one weekend in Chicago.

76 deaths in 2012 and 45 in 2013, Chicago should not be the standard for permissible deaths, it should be Zero

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:00:12 AM EDT

[#19]

Persecution complex in full effect.

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:01:10 AM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:

or you know, you could READ THE ACTUAL STATUTE THAT HAS BEEN POSTED AND QUOTED MULTIPLE TIMES.

Carry in a church is legal in the state of Texas unless you are asked not to carry either by direct request or the presentation of very specific signage at the entries.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Isn't church CCW still against the law in Texas?

On it's face it looks like that, but fine print says that it must be legally posted. The law allows Churches restrict CCW, but the default is unrestricted. I have never seen a Church posted.

That said, there are gray areas (where Concealed means concealed). Take a Church I sometimes attend. They have a school - school carry IS illegal. What happens when I go to a Church function that happens to be happening in a school building one week? What happens if it is not a school building, but sometimes used by the school - just not right now. In my issue my group meets 6am to 7:30, but a room in the same building is used for daycare at 8am - and the room I use is probably used as needed by every church group - including the school.

There have been times, however, due to school use of the community center - that we have met in the school cafeteria (again hours before it is used as the school cafeteria). I am no lawyer - but without looking at the deed, I am hoping the community center is owned by the Church and not by the School - and my ccw stays in my car if we walk to the cafeteria (which is almost certainly owned by the school).

I use to live in texas, you are dead wrong. It is one of the places specifically forbidden to ccw. There is no fine print. You are taking a major chance of losing your ccw..

wtf Texas

I thought you guys were all about guns

I can carry in church here. Openly even if it didn't freak everyone out.

or you know, you could READ THE ACTUAL STATUTE THAT HAS BEEN POSTED AND QUOTED MULTIPLE TIMES.

Carry in a church is legal in the state of Texas unless you are asked not to carry either by direct request or the presentation of very specific signage at the entries.

This

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:07:14 AM EDT

[#21]

This thread is relevant to my interests. I'm looking at trying to organize a security team/plan for our church.

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:07:52 AM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
No, not sure if you are serious. they dress in plain clothes for close protection with armor and SBRs under their jackets and just like a police swat team for the others and they are linked into the local PD.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
plans? do you have a plan?

I know some larger churches have full time organized security, one local church even has a swat team that cross trains with the local PD, but what are your plans?

Do they duct tape plates to their chest?

No, not sure if you are serious. they dress in plain clothes for close protection with armor and SBRs under their jackets and just like a police swat team for the others and they are linked into the local PD.

Know your Arf meme's

NSFjojo.

The more you know...

TXL

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:09:34 AM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
So, like 32 incidents a year. In the entire country. And that is not Christians, but all faiths.
That is one weekend in Chicago.

76 deaths in 2012 and 45 in 2013, Chicago should not be the standard for permissible deaths, it should be Zero

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Quote History

Quoted:

[/tbody][tbody][/tbody][tbody][/tbody][tbody][/tbody]

Deadly Force Incidents (DFI's) at Faith-Based Organizations in the United States (includes abductions, attacks, suspicious deaths, suicides and deadly force intervention / protection)
DATA CURRENT for time period 1/1/1999 through 2/01/14	NUM	%
TOTAL DFI's (Deadly Force Incidents)	792
NUMBER OF DFI's WHERE THE "ATTACK RESULTED IN DEATH OF OTHERS" (ARDO)	298	37.63%

Total known (generally accepted as known) attack triggers	619
Domestic Spillover (Domestic relationship violence that found it's way onto ministry property and resulted in a DFI)	103	16.64%
Personal Conflict (disagreement between 2 or more un-domestic-related people that erupted into a deadly force incident)	85	13.73%
Robbery	148	23.91%
Gang related (Gang or potential gang related that included drugs are in drugs category). It is reasonable to assume many of the PC and robbery cases were gang-related as well, but cannot be confirmed	64	10.34%
Confirmed drug related	14	2.26%
Confirmed mental illness	65	10.50%
Religious Bias (against any form of religion)	42	6.79%
Random and other (including rare triggers)	98	15.83%

Number of DFI's occurring based upon the TOP 3 known single issue triggers --(Domestic Violence, Personal conflict and robbery)	336	54.28%

Total incident weapons known (some attacks had more than one weapon)	817	%
Gun	472	57.77%
Knife (or other stabbing weapon)	141	17.26%
Auto	30	3.67%
Explosives (includes Molotov Cocktails)	48	5.88%
Other (poison, beating, hanging, fire, various objects)	126	15.42%

Victim Statistics (not including suicide)
Total killed and injured	884
Killed	376	42.53%
Injured	508	57.47%
Male victims (killed)	239	63.56%
Female victims (killed)	146	38.83%

Aggressor Statistics
Total known (even if known only by description) aggressors	788
Male	722	91.62%
Female	66	8.38%
Affiliated (member, past member, employee, volunteer) with ministry	190	24.11%

Total aggressors (including those without even a description) and their status	933
Suicide	76	8.15%
KIA	27	2.89%
Arrested	495	53.05%
Unknown or at-large	335	35.91%

Incident Statistics
Occurred inside the building	256	32.74%
Occurred outside on ministry property or activity location	526	67.26%
Occurred during event	313	40.13%
Occurred in off hours	467	59.87%
Single attacker	460	72.56%
Multiple attackers	174	27.44%

Total deadly force incident stats by year
Year	Total deaths (Homicide, suicide, unsolved suspicious and aggressors killed in action)	Total Incidents
1999	22	10
2000	9	6
2001	4	6
2002	11	9
2003	10	8
2004	3	4
2005	19	10
2006	30	27
2007	39	41
2008	50	64
2009	54	108
2010	52	102
2011	49	107
2012	76	139
2013	45	132
2014	6	19
TOTAL DEADLY FORCE DEATHS and INCIDENTS SINCE 1/01/1999	479	792

So, like 32 incidents a year. In the entire country. And that is not Christians, but all faiths.
That is one weekend in Chicago.

76 deaths in 2012 and 45 in 2013, Chicago should not be the standard for permissible deaths, it should be Zero

Your thread supposedly about violence against Christianity, not crimes that just happened to occur at church like your table suggests. I'm sorry you feel so persecuted.

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:10:45 AM EDT

[#24]

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Quoted:
including a sniper team. you really should go to church more often

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Quoted:

Quoted:
swat team

lol

including a sniper team. you really should go to church more often

I dunno man. Sounds like a pretty dangerous place.

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:11:48 AM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
Straight from the txdps ccw website

34. I am a Texas Concealed Handgun License (CHL) holder. Are there any places where I cannot carry my concealed handgun?
Yes. §46.035, Texas Penal Code prohibits carrying of handguns and other weapons in certain places. These include but are not limited to:

On the premises of a business that derives 51% or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption
On the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting or interscholastic event is taking place
On the premises of a correctional facility
On the premises of a hospital or nursing home (unless licensee has written authorization)
In an amusement park
On the premises of a church, synagogue, or other place of worship
At any meeting of a governmental entity

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STOP POSTING INCORRECT INFO.

THE LAW HAS BEEN CHANGED. SEE POSTS ABOVE YOURS/

Thank you.

TXL

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:13:06 AM EDT

[#26]

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You copied that off supportmytheoryregardlessofevidencetothecontrary.com didn't you.

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Posted: 7/22/2014 8:13:11 AM EDT

[#27]

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Quoted:

I dunno man. Sounds like a pretty dangerous place.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
swat team

lol

including a sniper team. you really should go to church more often

I dunno man. Sounds like a pretty dangerous place.

The more security they have, the more dangerous it seems, the more they get to feel persecuted, the more they get to feel like their doing something righteous.

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:18:27 AM EDT

[#28]

What upswing?

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:20:16 AM EDT

[#29]

I carry in church.

I do that because I carry everywhere, not because of imagined threats.

There's no upswing in violence. This isn't Mosul.

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:20:51 AM EDT

[#30]

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Quoted:
What upswing?

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The upswing in grown men rationalizing their desires to play secret agent magnum PI.

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:24:43 AM EDT

[#31]

There's a church that started up a few years ago in town. They have "sentries" stationed at all entrance doors.
Thing is these guys are wanna be tough guys. They stand in front of the doors with arms crossed and scowls on their faces. Lol
The place is a joke.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:25:08 AM EDT

[#32]

CHURCH POLICE!

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:26:52 AM EDT

[#33]

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Quoted:

I'm the audio tech at our church. The sound booth is elevated so its like a turret.

My G21SF is in there with me every Sunday.

I should bring an AR Pistol inside a ukelele case.
A Glock for the Flock...

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Quoted:

I'm the audio tech at our church. The sound booth is elevated so its like a turret.

My G21SF is in there with me every Sunday.

I should bring an AR Pistol inside a ukelele case.
A Glock for the Flock...

Same here... :-)

Our head pastor is also former law enforcement.

ETA:

Quoted:

I am hoping to get some feed back on plans and emergency medical plans too.

My previous church did a whole program on this. Let me see if I still have all the paperwork from it.

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:27:06 AM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:

The upswing in grown men rationalizing their desires to play secret agent magnum PI.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
What upswing?

The upswing in grown men rationalizing their desires to play secret agent magnum PI.

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:27:18 AM EDT

[#35]

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Quoted:

wtf Texas

I thought you guys were all about guns

I can carry in church here. Openly even if it didn't freak everyone out.

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Keep reading, he is wrong.

TXL

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:28:02 AM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
TOTAL DFI's (Deadly Force Incidents) 792

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Less than 800 over 15 years - which comes out to about once a week in a nation of 300+ million people. Looks like a non-issue to me.

The idea of a SWAT team for a church is patently absurd. Especially when you compare it to what the one Christian who actually has people gunning for him uses guys with halberds for defense.

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:30:44 AM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:

The idea of a SWAT team for a church is patently absurd. Especially when you compare it to what the one Christian who actually has people gunning for him uses guys with halberds for defense.

View Quote

They've got Sig 550s, HK MP7s, and Sig P220s as well.

Their arms room is impressive to see in pics. They've kept everything. MP43/44 subguns down the rack from 550s.

ETA: http://www.guns.com/2014/04/13/guns-swiss-guard/

Link contains a pic of a Vatican marked Glock 19.

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:31:54 AM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:

They've got Sig 550s, HK MP7s, and Sig P226s as well.

Their arms room is impressive to see in pics. They've kept everything. MP38 subguns down the rack from 550s.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

The idea of a SWAT team for a church is patently absurd. Especially when you compare it to what the one Christian who actually has people gunning for him uses guys with halberds for defense.

They've got Sig 550s, HK MP7s, and Sig P226s as well.

Their arms room is impressive to see in pics. They've kept everything. MP38 subguns down the rack from 550s.

I wonder how comprehensive their halberd training is though...

I want to see a would be pope-ssasin cleaved in two.

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:34:04 AM EDT

[#39]

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Quoted:

I wonder how comprehensive their halberd training is though...

I want to see a would be pope-ssasin cleaved in two.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

The idea of a SWAT team for a church is patently absurd. Especially when you compare it to what the one Christian who actually has people gunning for him uses guys with halberds for defense.

They've got Sig 550s, HK MP7s, and Sig P226s as well.

Their arms room is impressive to see in pics. They've kept everything. MP38 subguns down the rack from 550s.

I wonder how comprehensive their halberd training is though...

I want to see a would be pope-ssasin cleaved in two.

Very

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:34:10 AM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:]Your thread supposedly about violence against Christianity, not crimes that just happened to occur at church like your table suggests. I'm sorry you feel so persecuted.

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Now, now.....no need for logic in this thread.

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:34:36 AM EDT

[#41]

We keep the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch taped under the altar.

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:34:56 AM EDT

[#42]

OP is delusional

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:36:14 AM EDT

[#43]

Upswing in violence against Christians??????

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:38:17 AM EDT

[#44]

You guys remember last year when that fundie shot up a Sikh temple?

That was ballsy. Those guys are the closest thing we have to Klingons.

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:39:43 AM EDT

[#45]

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Quoted:

I use to live in texas, you are dead wrong. It is one of the places specifically forbidden to ccw. There is no fine print. You are taking a major chance of losing your ccw..

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Better call the cops then, because I've carried in several different churches in the last few years.

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:42:41 AM EDT

[#46]

So most incidents were robberies, during off hours, and outside on the church grounds. Less than 7% were motivated by religion, and no mention of the percent of attacks that were against Christian churches.

Yeah, huge upswing in violence against Christians.

Better get your swat team an MRAP.

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:43:03 AM EDT

[#47]

I needed a good laugh this morning. This thread delivered.

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:43:21 AM EDT

[#48]

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don't go to church? Problem solved

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Weird how often the first post nails it! Swat team, lol

Posted: 7/22/2014 8:50:36 AM EDT

[#49]

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Quoted:

So most incidents were robberies, during off hours, and outside on the church grounds. Less than 7% were motivated by religion, and no mention of the percent of attacks that were against Christian churches.

Yeah, huge upswing in violence against Christians.

Better get your swat team an MRAP.

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I guess you missed all the Christian bashing threads on arfcom