User Panel
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I've read where the training to man a BUK launcher takes roughly two years to complete. Now, who in the fuck believes Russians were not involved? View Quote How much of that is actually using the weapon system vs learning maintenance, trouble shooting, how radar works, etc.? You can d/l the sam simulator game, its not a SA-11, but you can get a very good idea how difficult it is to simply target and fire SAM's with an already operational system. https://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home |
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Before I post this I am going to say in no way do I believe the separatists aren't responsible there bold italics and underlined so everyone gets it. so now that thats out of the way: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b94_1406035322 The only reason I post it is because its amazing how much is fed to us through media and kind of scary because who would know what to believe View Quote What's being fed to us is that "separatists" are responsible, not the Russians themselves. At least that's today's tack. |
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Sure we do, Russians. They're very complicated machines, and it would take either a) Crew from the country of Origin to operate it. or b) People from the country of origin to train other russians to use it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Ukraine has never denied having operational Buks. Did they have any inside territory held by the Russians? You mean Russian separatists? Yes, the separatists were reported to have seized a Ukrainian ADA base; one would assume that is probably where they got them from. No, Russians. The BUK that was seen being driven away from the seen the day MH17 was downed was missing a missile, and was not one seized from Ukraine. Russia has provided tanks, MLRS and BUKs to their citizens fighting in Ukraine. Do you think they started from scratch and trained a new crew on the BUK, or wouldn't it make more sense just to send a trained crew with it? Humor, my good man...I should have put behind it. Definitely Russian equipment but we don't know who was in control of said launcher. Sure we do, Russians. They're very complicated machines, and it would take either a) Crew from the country of Origin to operate it. or b) People from the country of origin to train other russians to use it. There's a significant difference between statements a) and b). Still an assumption as to who was in control of the launcher. Do I think they were involved? Yes. Do I know? No. |
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Andrea Mitchell ?@mitchellreports 8m
.@rhodes44 on #MH17: 'There's going to be further declassification.' Intelligence community will put out info later today. |
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The Case Against Vladimir Putin
The White House's indictment for the MH17 shoot-down relies on secret satellite photos and intercepted phone calls -- but also on Twitter and YouTube. In laying out the administration's indictment against Moscow, Obama and key members of his national security team have been pulling from a trove of classified intelligence. Among the most incriminating evidence against the separatists are images taken by U.S. spy satellites showing a plume of smoke rising from the separatist-held area where the missile was fired, officials said. The missile also was detected by the Defense Support Program, a constellation of Air Force reconnaissance satellites that sense the infrared signature of ballistic missile launches and nuclear explosions, Reuters reported. The satellites were used during the 1990-1991 Gulf War to detect Scud missile launches from Iraq and to warn civilians in Israel and Saudi Arabia of incoming strikes. View Quote http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/07/21/the_case_against_vladimir_putin?utm_content=buffer17060&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer |
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Video Shows a Brawl Erupt in Ukrainian Parliament After Vote to Draw on Military Reserves
https://news.vice.com/article/video-shows-a-brawl-erupt-in-ukrainian-parliament-after-vote-to-draw-on-military-reserves?utm_source=vicenewstwitter |
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Interesting spin in this article. Basically lays out a scenario that would implicate Ukraine and a possible false flag operation. Perhaps to draw in some stronger backing against Russian aggression. The video of the fleeing BUK launcher was not taken where the Ukrainians said it was according to the article and the time stamps indicate it was taken a day before the plane went down. I assume the time stamps could be erroneous or perhaps edited later to support a particular cause but I don't know enough about that to say one way or another.
I don't necessarily subscribe to this theory but find it interesting. All we hear from both sides of the story is or could be propaganda, who really has the most to gain or lose? http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/key-piece-video-%E2%80%9Cevidence%E2%80%9D-russian-responsibility-malaysian-plane-shootdown-debunked |
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Quoted: Interesting spin in this article. Basically lays out a scenario that would implicate Ukraine and a possible false flag operation. Perhaps to draw in some stronger backing against Russian aggression. The video of the fleeing BUK launcher was not taken where the Ukrainians said it was according to the article and the time stamps indicate it was taken a day before the plane went down. I assume the time stamps could be erroneous or perhaps edited later to support a particular cause but I don't know enough about that to say one way or another. I don't necessarily subscribe to this theory but find it interesting. All we hear from both sides of the story is or could be propaganda, who really has the most to gain or lose? http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/key-piece-video-%E2%80%9Cevidence%E2%80%9D-russian-responsibility-malaysian-plane-shootdown-debunked View Quote |
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Interesting spin in this article. Basically lays out a scenario that would implicate Ukraine and a possible false flag operation. Perhaps to draw in some stronger backing against Russian aggression. The video of the fleeing BUK launcher was not taken where the Ukrainians said it was according to the article and the time stamps indicate it was taken a day before the plane went down. I assume the time stamps could be erroneous or perhaps edited later to support a particular cause but I don't know enough about that to say one way or another. I don't necessarily subscribe to this theory but find it interesting. All we hear from both sides of the story is or could be propaganda, who really has the most to gain or lose? http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/key-piece-video-%E2%80%9Cevidence%E2%80%9D-russian-responsibility-malaysian-plane-shootdown-debunked +1 |
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Kevin Bishop ?@bishopk 14m
Head of the Dutch forensics team Jain Tuinder: Train arrived in Kharkiv today with 200 bodies, significantly less than claimed by rebels. |
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Quoted: Actually, that's a legit eastern bloc AK recoil pad. http://zenphotos.net/album/SLR105A1/slides/SLR105%20011.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: First thought I had was that the guy on the right missed his calling to be a '80s action movie villan http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1917128/thumbs/o-ALEXANDER-BORODAI-900.jpg That photographer who took that pic is so gay. Not nearly as gay as using the pads off of a crutch as an improvised recoil pad. Does this guy execute a lot of people? I'm thinking you'd have to fire a lot of shots from an AK to really think it warrants a recoil pad. I've never fired shots angled downward at people on their knees - does this hurt your shoulder more? Actually, that's a legit eastern bloc AK recoil pad. http://zenphotos.net/album/SLR105A1/slides/SLR105%20011.jpg Where do you get those at? |
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Yes, how dare he as a MP criticize military operations that is causing hundreds of civilian deaths. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Maxim Eristavi ?@MaximEristavi 4m Ukraine parliament today: pro-Russia MP Levchenko literally kicked out of the building https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtJ6thxCAAIkuUk.jpg Needs more kicks to the scrotum Yes, how dare he as a MP criticize military operations that is causing hundreds of civilian deaths. Should just roll over for Putin, eh comrade? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Did we ever get a true count of Americans on board? 20 - 40 - 23 - 20 - 21 - 0 - 2 - 1 Yeah...that's kind of how I've seen it go. I just find it really odd that we went from 23 initially to...none...to....well...ok...there was 1. |
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Internet is "all lies," eye-rolling rebel leader tells CNN on missing missile tweet https://o.twimg.com/2/proxy.jpg?t=HBiLAWh0dHA6Ly9ib2luZ2JvaW5nLm5ldC93cC1jb250ZW50L3VwbG9hZHMvMjAxNC8wNy8xNDA3MjEwNjQyNDQtbmV3ZGF5LWludHYtcnVzc2lhLXJlYmVsLWxlYWRlci1taDE3LW1hbGF5c2lhLTAwMDIxNDExLWhvcml6b250YWwtZ2FsbGVyeS5qcGcUwAcUnAQAFgASAA&s=WLpyuHfb12ayaC2f6Gcr8pk66Sx8G5JwAUa1r0ICaa4 CNN's Chris Cuomo interviewed Donetsk People's Republic leader Alexander Borodai today about the chaotic aftermath of the crash of Malaysia Airlines flight 17. Among the questions for the pro-Russia militant: did your guys down the plane? (No.) And what happened to those brag tweets right before the plane crash, in which an account that appeared to represent your group boasted of possessing Russian anti-aircraft missile systems? Borodai's response to that one is best part of this totally bizarre interview: he dramatically rolls his eyes at Cuomo, and tells him basically, don't believe everything you see on the internet. CUOMO: So please answer the allegations. Ukraine and Western intelligence authorities say there was a tweet connected to the DPR that said that your forces had taken control of a Russian missile system that it took from Ukraine, that they've intercepted conversations bragging that they had taken down the plane. So if you have the tweet and the conversations and the pictures that all point to your forces, how do you deny that it was your forces that brought down the plane?
BORODAI (via translator): It is very simple to disprove it. All the information that comes through the Internet, in my opinion, is practically all lies. CUOMO: So the tweet is fake, the conversations that they say they intercepted are fake? The picture of the missile system moving back across the border, is that fake as well? BORODAI (via translator): I am telling you again, we have never been in possession of even a single Buk system. I can list all the means of defense we have in our possession. All of these means of defense are capable of crashing only the low-flying targets. http://boingboing.net/2014/07/21/the-internet-is-all-lies.html |
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There has never been incorrect information presented shortly after transpiring events.
The first I heard on 9/11 was that a commuter plane had crashed into the WTC and caused some damage. Whatever you have to hang your conspiratorial hat on. My assumption is that someone,somehow confused Australians with Americans in the initial understanding of the passenger manifest. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Yeah...that's kind of how I've seen it go. I just find it really odd that we went from 23 initially to...none...to....well...ok...there was 1. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Did we ever get a true count of Americans on board? 20 - 40 - 23 - 20 - 21 - 0 - 2 - 1 Yeah...that's kind of how I've seen it go. I just find it really odd that we went from 23 initially to...none...to....well...ok...there was 1. 23 is the magic number here. 23 Americans, 23 Russians captured. |
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The Case Against Vladimir Putin
The White House's indictment for the MH17 shoot-down relies on secret satellite photos and intercepted phone calls -- but also on Twitter and YouTube. In laying out the administration's indictment against Moscow, Obama and key members of his national security team have been pulling from a trove of classified intelligence. Among the most incriminating evidence against the separatists are images taken by U.S. spy satellites showing a plume of smoke rising from the separatist-held area where the missile was fired, officials said. The missile also was detected by the Defense Support Program, a constellation of Air Force reconnaissance satellites that sense the infrared signature of ballistic missile launches and nuclear explosions, Reuters reported. The satellites were used during the 1990-1991 Gulf War to detect Scud missile launches from Iraq and to warn civilians in Israel and Saudi Arabia of incoming strikes. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/07/21/the_case_against_vladimir_putin?utm_content=buffer17060&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer I believe that when the Reagan administration decided to play the declassified recording of soviet air traffic control and the fighter pilot that shot down KAL 007, that the Reagan administration actually had a plan of what they would get to compromise the security asset and have lose it when the Soviets changes what they were doing. What would be the game plan for releasing this information? What is the benefit versus the loss of the ability to doo it more in the future? Or am I expecting too much? |
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Interesting spin in this article. Basically lays out a scenario that would implicate Ukraine and a possible false flag operation. Perhaps to draw in some stronger backing against Russian aggression. The video of the fleeing BUK launcher was not taken where the Ukrainians said it was according to the article and the time stamps indicate it was taken a day before the plane went down. I assume the time stamps could be erroneous or perhaps edited later to support a particular cause but I don't know enough about that to say one way or another. I don't necessarily subscribe to this theory but find it interesting. All we hear from both sides of the story is or could be propaganda, who really has the most to gain or lose? http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/key-piece-video-%E2%80%9Cevidence%E2%80%9D-russian-responsibility-malaysian-plane-shootdown-debunked View Quote Zerohedge jumped the shark some time ago. |
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Interesting spin in this article. Basically lays out a scenario that would implicate Ukraine and a possible false flag operation. Perhaps to draw in some stronger backing against Russian aggression. The video of the fleeing BUK launcher was not taken where the Ukrainians said it was according to the article and the time stamps indicate it was taken a day before the plane went down. I assume the time stamps could be erroneous or perhaps edited later to support a particular cause but I don't know enough about that to say one way or another. I don't necessarily subscribe to this theory but find it interesting. All we hear from both sides of the story is or could be propaganda, who really has the most to gain or lose? http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/key-piece-video-%E2%80%9Cevidence%E2%80%9D-russian-responsibility-malaysian-plane-shootdown-debunked View Quote Russia and Putin more specifically has its income from the oil it sells to Europe. We are building the infrastructure to ship our surplus gas to Europe. If that reaches completion, Russia will be more broke than they already are. If Putin can reignite the Cold War.. |
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How much of that is actually using the weapon system vs learning maintenance, trouble shooting, how radar works, etc.? You can d/l the sam simulator game, its not a SA-11, but you can get a very good idea how difficult it is to simply target and fire SAM's with an already operational system. https://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I've read where the training to man a BUK launcher takes roughly two years to complete. Now, who in the fuck believes Russians were not involved? How much of that is actually using the weapon system vs learning maintenance, trouble shooting, how radar works, etc.? You can d/l the sam simulator game, its not a SA-11, but you can get a very good idea how difficult it is to simply target and fire SAM's with an already operational system. https://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home Now we know where the separatists got their training. |
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Before I post this I am going to say in no way do I believe the separatists aren't responsible there bold italics and underlined so everyone gets it. so now that thats out of the way: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b94_1406035322 The only reason I post it is because its amazing how much is fed to us through media and kind of scary because who would know what to believe View Quote I have never seen any published claims that he was stealing the stuffed animal. The comments just seem to be the rather callous nature of standing there with a cigarette in hand, holding some child's stuffed animal in the air for their parents and relatives to see back home. Oh, yes, and he's also insisting that THE UKRAINIANS shot the aircraft down - so, uh, yeah, there's that, too. |
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Obviously it was a movie, but I seem to recall the missile that shot down the jet in the Owen Wilson war movie operated in a similar fashion as the buk is described.
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View Quote SA-11 has a 150'ish pound warhead.. |
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Jet Wreckage Bears Signs of Impact by Supersonic Missile, Analysis Shows
A piece of wreckage from the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200 that was shot down in eastern Ukraine last week bears telltale marks of small pieces of high-velocity shrapnel that apparently crippled the jet in flight. Riddled with these perforations and buffeted by a blast wave as it flew high above the conflict zone, the plane then most likely sheared apart.
The wreckage, photographed by two reporters for The New York Times in a field several miles from where the largest concentration of the Boeing’s debris settled, suggests that the destruction of the aircraft was caused by a supersonic missile that apparently exploded near the jet as it flew 33,000 feet above the ground, according to an analysis of the photographs by IHS Jane’s, the defense consultancy. View Quote But behind each missile’s antenna and guidance system is a warhead packed with 46 pounds of high explosive. View Quote The explosive fill of an SA-11 is encased in a double sleeve of molded aluminum that has been preformed into a diamond-patterned grid, Mr. Foster said. View Quote http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/22/world/europe/jet-wreckage-bears-signs-of-impact-by-supersonic-missile-analysis-shows.html?_r=0 |
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Before I post this I am going to say in no way do I believe the separatists aren't responsible there bold italics and underlined so everyone gets it. so now that thats out of the way: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b94_1406035322 The only reason I post it is because its amazing how much is fed to us through media and kind of scary because who would know what to believe View Quote That guy has some other vids on youtube. One shows a separatist "looting" a gold ring was actually putting it in an evidence box. |
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I believe that when the Reagan administration decided to play the declassified recording of soviet air traffic control and the fighter pilot that shot down KAL 007, that the Reagan administration actually had a plan of what they would get to compromise the security asset and have lose it when the Soviets changes what they were doing. What would be the game plan for releasing this information? What is the benefit versus the loss of the ability to doo it more in the future? Or am I expecting too much? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The Case Against Vladimir Putin
The White House's indictment for the MH17 shoot-down relies on secret satellite photos and intercepted phone calls -- but also on Twitter and YouTube. In laying out the administration's indictment against Moscow, Obama and key members of his national security team have been pulling from a trove of classified intelligence. Among the most incriminating evidence against the separatists are images taken by U.S. spy satellites showing a plume of smoke rising from the separatist-held area where the missile was fired, officials said. The missile also was detected by the Defense Support Program, a constellation of Air Force reconnaissance satellites that sense the infrared signature of ballistic missile launches and nuclear explosions, Reuters reported. The satellites were used during the 1990-1991 Gulf War to detect Scud missile launches from Iraq and to warn civilians in Israel and Saudi Arabia of incoming strikes. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/07/21/the_case_against_vladimir_putin?utm_content=buffer17060&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer I believe that when the Reagan administration decided to play the declassified recording of soviet air traffic control and the fighter pilot that shot down KAL 007, that the Reagan administration actually had a plan of what they would get to compromise the security asset and have lose it when the Soviets changes what they were doing. What would be the game plan for releasing this information? What is the benefit versus the loss of the ability to doo it more in the future? Or am I expecting too much? How would the Russians not expect we are watching the area with satellites and taping phone calls? I would if I was them. |
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First thought I had was that the guy on the right missed his calling to be a '80s action movie villan http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1917128/thumbs/o-ALEXANDER-BORODAI-900.jpg That photographer who took that pic is so gay. Not nearly as gay as using the pads off of a crutch as an improvised recoil pad. Does this guy execute a lot of people? I'm thinking you'd have to fire a lot of shots from an AK to really think it warrants a recoil pad. I've never fired shots angled downward at people on their knees - does this hurt your shoulder more? Actually, that's a legit eastern bloc AK recoil pad. http://zenphotos.net/album/SLR105A1/slides/SLR105%20011.jpg Where do you get those at? I don't remember where I got mine (APEX, I think), just fire up the Google's and search away. Usually found for around $20. They fit all types of Warsaw pact stocks, even underfolders (the reason it has such a funky shape). |
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That guy has some other vids on youtube. One shows a separatist "looting" a gold ring was actually putting it in an evidence box. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Before I post this I am going to say in no way do I believe the separatists aren't responsible there bold italics and underlined so everyone gets it. so now that thats out of the way: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b94_1406035322 The only reason I post it is because its amazing how much is fed to us through media and kind of scary because who would know what to believe That guy has some other vids on youtube. One shows a separatist "looting" a gold ring was actually putting it in an evidence box. All sides are involved in a propaganda war. |
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Putin to Hollande: No gas for you, tovarisch!!! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Bloomberg News ?@BloombergNews 17m Hollande prepared to cancel French warship sale to Russia Putin to Hollande: No gas for you, tovarisch!!! So we should speed up our infrastructure building and start shipping our surplus ASAP |
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So we should speed up our infrastructure building and start shipping our surplus ASAP View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Bloomberg News ?@BloombergNews 17m Hollande prepared to cancel French warship sale to Russia Putin to Hollande: No gas for you, tovarisch!!! So we should speed up our infrastructure building and start shipping our surplus ASAP still plenty of time until winter I would hope that is will be speed up so that Putin will feel the pain |
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What are they hiding? Maybe it was not a SA-11 NBC Nightly News ?@NBCNightlyNews 1h #MH17 wreckage 'hacked into' with power saws, international monitors say http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-plane-crash/mh17-wreckage-has-been-hacked-saws-osce-says-n161846 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtJ5XO8CQAAotyJ.jpg View Quote If it was an S-3 or 400... |
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What are they hiding? Maybe it was not a SA-11 NBC Nightly News ?@NBCNightlyNews 1h #MH17 wreckage 'hacked into' with power saws, international monitors say http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-plane-crash/mh17-wreckage-has-been-hacked-saws-osce-says-n161846 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtJ5XO8CQAAotyJ.jpg If it was an S-3 or 400... Sure would be a pity if our least sophisticated hacking ECM software got leaked to Ukraine... |
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More and more seems to say that this attack will change nothing, other than destroying and damaging private lives. Nothing will change in Russia or about Russia, nothing will change on the global scene. Putin will go when he wants to and not a moment sooner, and his successor will have been chosen to ensure that his name will be the major difference.
Some scapegoats may be found to show to the global public. Some may even include low-lever players from among those responsible for the attack. The traditional 80% of the Russian public will get its own, preferable version of events. On the other side, there may be attempts at new sanctions. Some may actually be introduced. Then, when it's all old news and a new reality show takes over as the major news item, all that will also fade away. Look at the media - MH17 is already becoming "last week's news" in every meaning of the term. Wait a year, and it will be the distant past. "Remember that plane crash in Russia? Or maybe it was somewhere near Russia? Oh, yeah, I remember. Horrible. Yeah, that's Russia for you. So what's on TV?" The conspiracies/false flags/CIA operation camp will grow, too; everything will be diluted and easier to forget. Because since late 1990s, that has been the attitude, and it will remain unchanged: "That's Russia for you." This story has been touted as world-important (and very rightfully so), one leading to strained relationships between USA and Russia - and it was. For about a month. How many people have actually heard of it? Bothered to check the details? Remembered it three months later? (Here's an answer - this shocking video expose has been seen by... 30 thousand so far. A total of 30 thousand, worldwide. That's the audience that a video clip of a Kardashian and a cat would get daily, if not hourly. I read an article today that stated, in short, that to put it cruelly, the attack was *not shocking enough* for the world's "leaders" to actually unite to do something, or to cause an outrage powerful and long-lasting enough to force them to do so. A grim point, but one that may be right. |
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Do those 777's have those on board flight cams where passengers can view from the tail cams? If not they need to have these on all commercial flights and recorded for the full flights. Like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KK1Al4WxoU View Quote Yes. There's cameras on several parts of the 777. It was explained to me that this is done for in flight inspection of the exterior of the plane by the crew. I don't know if it's recorded though. Probably not . |
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@AP
BREAKING: US officials: Intel suggests Malaysia plane shot down by separatists, no link to Russia found. View Quote |
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Bloomberg News ?@BloombergNews 17m Hollande prepared to cancel French warship sale to Russia View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Bloomberg News ?@BloombergNews 17m Hollande prepared to cancel French warship sale to Russia I think thats more of an empty threat and will only happen if the rest of Europe imposes real sanctions on Russia. http://www.france24.com/en/20140722-us-uk-oppose-france-sale-mistral-warship-russia-ukraine-cameron/ French President François Hollande on Monday said the decision on whether to deliver a second Mistral warship to Russia will “depend on Moscow’s attitude” over the Ukraine crisis amid mounting US-UK opposition to the deal.
Speaking to reporters during a dinner the night before EU foreign ministers were set to meet in Brussels to discuss tougher sanctions on Russia, Hollande said a first warship was nearly finished and would be delivered as planned in October. http://news.yahoo.com/france-tells-uk-look-london-oligarchs-damning-mistral-192121918.html PARIS (Reuters) - France's foreign minister hit back at Britain on Tuesday, telling Prime Minister David Cameron he should do something about UK-based Russian oligarchs before questioning France's plan to sell Mistral helicopter carriers to Moscow. |
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@AP
BREAKING: US officials: Intel suggests Malaysia plane shot down by separatists, no link to Russia found. The narrative once again shifts. Semantics, the link to the separatists by RU is all to clear. |
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