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Posted: 7/22/2014 1:29:24 AM EDT
[#1]
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So, are you saying that the "Arab Spring" that Obama so encouraged, the general mess in the middle east, and the bear making ominous noises would be the same had Romney gotten elected? Could things have been any worse? Hell, just flipping a coin to make decisions and you're going to get 50% right. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 1:33:54 AM EDT
[#2]
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Pretty interesting. Wonder if shrapnel from a missile looks different than impact damage? My guess is yes. If the missile hit the nose of the plane, would it sufficiently take out the flight controls to the point of causing the crash? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ezra Braam ?@EzraBraam @HaraldDoornbos @hdevreij @RonaldElzenga I did some puzzling #shrapnel ? #MH17 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtGLnAECcAAitJk.jpg Pretty interesting. Wonder if shrapnel from a missile looks different than impact damage? My guess is yes. If the missile hit the nose of the plane, would it sufficiently take out the flight controls to the point of causing the crash? Yes, shrapnel will definitely look different that impact damage; you'd be amazed at what the forensic guys can determine from the evidence...that is if they get to examine the evidence. Some missiles are designed to bias their impact toward the nose for just that reason: incapacitate the crew and flight controls. The BUK however a) has a prox fuse that detonates prior to impact in order to maximize shrapnel dispersion throughout the target and b) is so big that it would have taken out "a lot" no matter where in/on the fuselage the shrapnel struck. 70kg/154lb of HE is a massive amount of destructive force. While the picture in question does look like shrapnel damage, I doubt that is anywhere near the only damage. I would have expected to see a much larger and uniform frag pattern. That picture is still sobering to say the least. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 1:48:28 AM EDT
[#3]
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Could provide data on what systems failed. I mean on which side of the aircraft. That would give an indication on which side was struck and therefore which direction it was hit from. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And the black boxes are an unimportant discussion. We pretty much know why it crashed. And I've got a good idea where. Could provide data on what systems failed. I mean on which side of the aircraft. That would give an indication on which side was struck and therefore which direction it was hit from. We know it came from the separatist side. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 1:52:10 AM EDT
[#4]
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If there was a Snow Drift or Tube Arm acquisition radar operating in that area, everyone would have known about it and the Ukrs probably wouldn't have been flying in that airspace until it was neutralized. From what the "US Intelligence sources" are reported as having said, a fire control radar was detected and then shortly after the missile launch was observed. The Fire Dome radar on the SA-11 TELAR can be used independently and that's what probably happened here. They saw the contrail, lit up the plane, and popped it. They'd shot down a high-flying AN-26 4 days previous and figured they had another. All the pictures and videos only show the single launch vehicle (presuming it's the culprit).The radar and CnC vehicles are nowhere to be seen. It's also not something that can be just handed over to a bunch of yokels. Some fairly in-depth training is required for operation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Somebody may have beaten me to it, but it's my understanding that those Buk launchers were never intended to be used as stand-alone systems the way they apparently were. Each launcher is supposed to be just one element of a network of launchers, all linked to a sophisticated centralized fire control radar that is capable of interrogating and identifying aircraft within it's coverage area. A single launcher relying only on it's own targeting radar probably could only identify planes as pieces of metal in the sky. I'm convinced they fired on MH17 without so much as a clue as to what it was, like shooting at noises in the dark. They need to reap the whirlwind over this! Sort of. Doctrinal SAM organization does include a command and control element linked to any number of firing batteries (launchers). Hoever, the command and control element contains search/acquisition radars to find targets. Targets are handed over to the individual firing batteries which then use their own track/guidance (fire control) radars to conduct the engagement. The only effect of not having a command element, besides the obvious LAUNCH or DON'T LAUNCH command is that, without the help of the search/ac radar, an individual launcher would have a harder time finding a target. In this case, we don't know if an search radar was employed, or just a launcher but I agree, I think they saw an aircraft, thought it had to be Ukrainian military and engaged. If there was a Snow Drift or Tube Arm acquisition radar operating in that area, everyone would have known about it and the Ukrs probably wouldn't have been flying in that airspace until it was neutralized. From what the "US Intelligence sources" are reported as having said, a fire control radar was detected and then shortly after the missile launch was observed. The Fire Dome radar on the SA-11 TELAR can be used independently and that's what probably happened here. They saw the contrail, lit up the plane, and popped it. They'd shot down a high-flying AN-26 4 days previous and figured they had another. All the pictures and videos only show the single launch vehicle (presuming it's the culprit).The radar and CnC vehicles are nowhere to be seen. It's also not something that can be just handed over to a bunch of yokels. Some fairly in-depth training is required for operation. I hadn't heard about only fire control only being detected but don't doubt it/agree with all points. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 2:17:29 AM EDT
[#5]
10:55 Parts of the plane wreckage have been changed since OSCE officials at the site last saw it, spokesman Michael Bociurkiw tells BBC World Update. Large pieces of the plane have been cut into, he says. http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28417698 So,they're cutting it up Want to place bets on if anyone sees that section of nose and wing that have damage not consistent with simply falling from the sky? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 3:14:38 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
10:55 Parts of the plane wreckage have been changed since OSCE officials at the site last saw it, spokesman Michael Bociurkiw tells BBC World Update. Large pieces of the plane have been cut into, he says. http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28417698 So,they're cutting it up Want to place bets on if anyone sees that section of nose and wing that have damage not consistent with simply falling from the sky? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
10:55 Parts of the plane wreckage have been changed since OSCE officials at the site last saw it, spokesman Michael Bociurkiw tells BBC World Update. Large pieces of the plane have been cut into, he says. http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28417698 So,they're cutting it up Want to place bets on if anyone sees that section of nose and wing that have damage not consistent with simply falling from the sky? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile They are sabotaging the investigation; Evidence-Tampering 'on Industrial Scale' at MH17 Crash Site Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott has said that "evidence-tampering on an industrial scale" is taking place at the MH17 crash site, accusing pro-Russian rebels of attempting a "cover-up". |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 3:22:41 AM EDT
[#7]
I'm shocked that Arfcom would believe the idea that mother Russia would hamfistedly try and manipulate evidence to cover up their role.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 3:32:03 AM EDT
[#8]
Hi stupid question here.
Was on the original 15 pages or so then jumped up huge over the weekend. I admit I went straight the the last few pages Why does everything have holes in it. Looks like a giant shotgun took it out. I read that they detonate a few meters away, are they designed to make things into Swiss cheese? Greater probability of a "hit"? Sorry for the stupid question. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 3:36:55 AM EDT
[#9]
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You mean Russian separatists? Yes, the separatists were reported to have seized a Ukrainian ADA base; one would assume that is probably where they got them from. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ukraine has never denied having operational Buks. Did they have any inside territory held by the Russians? You mean Russian separatists? Yes, the separatists were reported to have seized a Ukrainian ADA base; one would assume that is probably where they got them from. No, Russians. The BUK that was seen being driven away from the seen the day MH17 was downed was missing a missile, and was not one seized from Ukraine. Russia has provided tanks, MLRS and BUKs to their citizens fighting in Ukraine. Do you think they started from scratch and trained a new crew on the BUK, or wouldn't it make more sense just to send a trained crew with it? |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 3:53:27 AM EDT
[#10]
Cincinnatus: In case you hadn't heard yet.............Ron Paul said Bush did it.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 3:58:05 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, Russians. The BUK that was seen being driven away from the seen the day MH17 was downed was missing a missile, and was not one seized from Ukraine. Russia has provided tanks, MLRS and BUKs to their citizens fighting in Ukraine. Do you think they started from scratch and trained a new crew on the BUK, or wouldn't it make more sense just to send a trained crew with it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ukraine has never denied having operational Buks. Did they have any inside territory held by the Russians? You mean Russian separatists? Yes, the separatists were reported to have seized a Ukrainian ADA base; one would assume that is probably where they got them from. No, Russians. The BUK that was seen being driven away from the seen the day MH17 was downed was missing a missile, and was not one seized from Ukraine. Russia has provided tanks, MLRS and BUKs to their citizens fighting in Ukraine. Do you think they started from scratch and trained a new crew on the BUK, or wouldn't it make more sense just to send a trained crew with it? Humor, my good man...I should have put  behind it. Definitely Russian equipment but we don't know who was in control of said launcher.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 4:01:43 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hi stupid question here. Was on the original 15 pages or so then jumped up huge over the weekend. I admit I went straight the the last few pages Why does everything have holes in it. Looks like a giant shotgun took it out. I read that they detonate a few meters away, are they designed to make things into Swiss cheese? Greater probability of a "hit"? Sorry for the stupid question. SAMs blow up near their target and shower it with shrapnel. Greater chance of a hit and of hitting something important. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 4:04:28 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SAMs blow up near their target and shower it with shrapnel. Greater chance of a hit and of hitting something important. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hi stupid question here. Was on the original 15 pages or so then jumped up huge over the weekend. I admit I went straight the the last few pages Why does everything have holes in it. Looks like a giant shotgun took it out. I read that they detonate a few meters away, are they designed to make things into Swiss cheese? Greater probability of a "hit"? Sorry for the stupid question. SAMs blow up near their target and shower it with shrapnel. Greater chance of a hit and of hitting something important. Kind of like this? 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 4:15:04 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hi stupid question here. Was on the original 15 pages or so then jumped up huge over the weekend. I admit I went straight the the last few pages Why does everything have holes in it. Looks like a giant shotgun took it out. I read that they detonate a few meters away, are they designed to make things into Swiss cheese? Greater probability of a "hit"? Sorry for the stupid question. The Buk is proximity fused rather than contact fused to increase the chance of hitting the target. It detonates the warhead 20 meters from it and just for comparison,it's a roughly 150 pound warhead while a 155mm artillery shell is around 80 pounds. It's a bunch of boom vs something you could stick a screwdriver through with ease |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 4:17:01 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You mean Russian separatists? Yes, the separatists were reported to have seized a Ukrainian ADA base; one would assume that is probably where they got them from. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ukraine has never denied having operational Buks. Did they have any inside territory held by the Russians? You mean Russian separatists? Yes, the separatists were reported to have seized a Ukrainian ADA base; one would assume that is probably where they got them from. He had it right the first time. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 4:17:06 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He would look so much better with a .40 S&W wound to his forehead. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Internet is "all lies," eye-rolling rebel leader tells CNN on missing missile tweet https://o.twimg.com/2/proxy.jpg?t=HBiLAWh0dHA6Ly9ib2luZ2JvaW5nLm5ldC93cC1jb250ZW50L3VwbG9hZHMvMjAxNC8wNy8xNDA3MjEwNjQyNDQtbmV3ZGF5LWludHYtcnVzc2lhLXJlYmVsLWxlYWRlci1taDE3LW1hbGF5c2lhLTAwMDIxNDExLWhvcml6b250YWwtZ2FsbGVyeS5qcGcUwAcUnAQAFgASAA&s=WLpyuHfb12ayaC2f6Gcr8pk66Sx8G5JwAUa1r0ICaa4 CNN's Chris Cuomo interviewed Donetsk People's Republic leader Alexander Borodai today about the chaotic aftermath of the crash of Malaysia Airlines flight 17. Among the questions for the pro-Russia militant: did your guys down the plane? (No.) And what happened to those brag tweets right before the plane crash, in which an account that appeared to represent your group boasted of possessing Russian anti-aircraft missile systems? Borodai's response to that one is best part of this totally bizarre interview: he dramatically rolls his eyes at Cuomo, and tells him basically, don't believe everything you see on the internet. CUOMO: So please answer the allegations. Ukraine and Western intelligence authorities say there was a tweet connected to the DPR that said that your forces had taken control of a Russian missile system that it took from Ukraine, that they've intercepted conversations bragging that they had taken down the plane. So if you have the tweet and the conversations and the pictures that all point to your forces, how do you deny that it was your forces that brought down the plane? BORODAI (via translator): It is very simple to disprove it. All the information that comes through the Internet, in my opinion, is practically all lies. CUOMO: So the tweet is fake, the conversations that they say they intercepted are fake? The picture of the missile system moving back across the border, is that fake as well? BORODAI (via translator): I am telling you again, we have never been in possession of even a single Buk system. I can list all the means of defense we have in our possession. All of these means of defense are capable of crashing only the low-flying targets. http://boingboing.net/2014/07/21/the-internet-is-all-lies.html |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 4:17:28 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Could things have been any worse? Hell, just flipping a coin to make decisions and you're going to get 50% right. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So, are you saying that the "Arab Spring" that Obama so encouraged, the general mess in the middle east, and the bear making ominous noises would be the same had Romney gotten elected? Could things have been any worse? Hell, just flipping a coin to make decisions and you're going to get 50% right. 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 4:20:03 AM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 7/22/2014 4:27:06 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So, are you saying that the "Arab Spring" that Obama so encouraged, the general mess in the middle east, and the bear making ominous noises would be the same had Romney gotten elected? Could things have been any worse? Hell, just flipping a coin to make decisions and you're going to get 50% right.
Larry...........Not sure if you know yet either..........Ron Paul blamed Bush for this airplane being shot down. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 4:48:12 AM EDT
[#20]
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That photographer who took that pic is so gay. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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First thought I had was that the guy on the right missed his calling to be a '80s action movie villan http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1917128/thumbs/o-ALEXANDER-BORODAI-900.jpg That photographer who took that pic is so gay. Not nearly as gay as using the pads off of a crutch as an improvised recoil pad. Does this guy execute a lot of people? I'm thinking you'd have to fire a lot of shots from an AK to really think it warrants a recoil pad. I've never fired shots angled downward at people on their knees - does this hurt your shoulder more? |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 4:57:04 AM EDT
[#21]
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Not nearly as gay as using the pads off of a crutch as an improvised recoil pad. Does this guy execute a lot of people? I'm thinking you'd have to fire a lot of shots from an AK to really think it warrants a recoil pad. I've never fired shots angled downward at people on their knees - does this hurt your shoulder more? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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First thought I had was that the guy on the right missed his calling to be a '80s action movie villan http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1917128/thumbs/o-ALEXANDER-BORODAI-900.jpg That photographer who took that pic is so gay. Not nearly as gay as using the pads off of a crutch as an improvised recoil pad. Does this guy execute a lot of people? I'm thinking you'd have to fire a lot of shots from an AK to really think it warrants a recoil pad. I've never fired shots angled downward at people on their knees - does this hurt your shoulder more? Fucking Neckbeard Faggot is protecting his stash of .22 LR he plans on selling at the Kiev Gunshow this weekend 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 5:07:40 AM EDT
[#22]
Michael Weiss ?@michaeldweiss 24m
Separatists clearly cutting away bits of plane wreckage that suggest a missile strike: Terry Moran ?@TerryMoran 1h International monitors tell me at crash site that the wreckage of #MH17 has been "significantly altered." |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 5:07:51 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
..........Ron Paul blamed Bush for this airplane being shot down. 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 5:09:41 AM EDT
[#24]
He has Paki tape,is Tier 1 Comrade!
There's something a little hidden with those 2: the guy on the left has a Cossack haircut,the one on the right facial hair as favored in the Caucasus. He was rolling in to intimidate. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 5:16:12 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Michael Weiss ?@michaeldweiss 24m Separatists clearly cutting away bits of plane wreckage that suggest a missile strike: Terry Moran ?@TerryMoran 1h International monitors tell me at crash site that the wreckage of #MH17 has been "significantly altered." Is being cut away by CIA/SBU operatives to frame Russia 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 5:37:08 AM EDT
[#26]
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Is being cut away by CIA/SBU operatives to frame Russia Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Michael Weiss ?@michaeldweiss 24m Separatists clearly cutting away bits of plane wreckage that suggest a missile strike: Terry Moran ?@TerryMoran 1h International monitors tell me at crash site that the wreckage of #MH17 has been "significantly altered." Is being cut away by CIA/SBU operatives to frame Russia This could have been called then second the plane went down. This should not be a surprise to anyone which I doubt it is |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 5:38:43 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SAMs blow up near their target and shower it with shrapnel. Greater chance of a hit and of hitting something important. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hi stupid question here. Was on the original 15 pages or so then jumped up huge over the weekend. I admit I went straight the the last few pages Why does everything have holes in it. Looks like a giant shotgun took it out. I read that they detonate a few meters away, are they designed to make things into Swiss cheese? Greater probability of a "hit"? Sorry for the stupid question. SAMs blow up near their target and shower it with shrapnel. Greater chance of a hit and of hitting something important. There are actually several different anti-aircraft warhead types. I don't know about Russian equipment, but the most common style used in US missiles is the continuous rod warhead. Basically, there is a band of linked metal rods that wraps around the explosive charge and when it detonates, the rods expand and the cable that links them spreads out in a big, connected circle. The idea being that the circle with slice anything parallel to the missile and within range. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous-rod_warhead 
I think most Russian stuff is simple blast fragment warheads though. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 5:41:55 AM EDT
[#28]
I'll bet those Ukrainian planes just "fell" out of the sky on their own as well............
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Yes he would Comrade. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Internet is "all lies," eye-rolling rebel leader tells CNN on missing missile tweet https://o.twimg.com/2/proxy.jpg?t=HBiLAWh0dHA6Ly9ib2luZ2JvaW5nLm5ldC93cC1jb250ZW50L3VwbG9hZHMvMjAxNC8wNy8xNDA3MjEwNjQyNDQtbmV3ZGF5LWludHYtcnVzc2lhLXJlYmVsLWxlYWRlci1taDE3LW1hbGF5c2lhLTAwMDIxNDExLWhvcml6b250YWwtZ2FsbGVyeS5qcGcUwAcUnAQAFgASAA&s=WLpyuHfb12ayaC2f6Gcr8pk66Sx8G5JwAUa1r0ICaa4 CNN's Chris Cuomo interviewed Donetsk People's Republic leader Alexander Borodai today about the chaotic aftermath of the crash of Malaysia Airlines flight 17. Among the questions for the pro-Russia militant: did your guys down the plane? (No.) And what happened to those brag tweets right before the plane crash, in which an account that appeared to represent your group boasted of possessing Russian anti-aircraft missile systems? Borodai's response to that one is best part of this totally bizarre interview: he dramatically rolls his eyes at Cuomo, and tells him basically, don't believe everything you see on the internet. CUOMO: So please answer the allegations. Ukraine and Western intelligence authorities say there was a tweet connected to the DPR that said that your forces had taken control of a Russian missile system that it took from Ukraine, that they've intercepted conversations bragging that they had taken down the plane. So if you have the tweet and the conversations and the pictures that all point to your forces, how do you deny that it was your forces that brought down the plane?
BORODAI (via translator): It is very simple to disprove it. All the information that comes through the Internet, in my opinion, is practically all lies. CUOMO: So the tweet is fake, the conversations that they say they intercepted are fake? The picture of the missile system moving back across the border, is that fake as well? BORODAI (via translator): I am telling you again, we have never been in possession of even a single Buk system. I can list all the means of defense we have in our possession. All of these means of defense are capable of crashing only the low-flying targets. http://boingboing.net/2014/07/21/the-internet-is-all-lies.html |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 5:52:18 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are sabotaging the investigation; Evidence-Tampering 'on Industrial Scale' at MH17 Crash Site Quote HistoryQuoted:
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10:55 Parts of the plane wreckage have been changed since OSCE officials at the site last saw it, spokesman Michael Bociurkiw tells BBC World Update. Large pieces of the plane have been cut into, he says. http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28417698 So,they're cutting it up Want to place bets on if anyone sees that section of nose and wing that have damage not consistent with simply falling from the sky? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile They are sabotaging the investigation; Evidence-Tampering 'on Industrial Scale' at MH17 Crash Site Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott has said that "evidence-tampering on an industrial scale" is taking place at the MH17 crash site, accusing pro-Russian rebels of attempting a "cover-up". Well, in my opinion screw Russia and the separatists. The nations of the people involved in the accident need to send their own military guys there to claim the wreckage site. Sure, this might piss off Russia, but at this point who cares. European nations need to grow some balls. We don't have the balls either with the current president in office, and our actions are leaving power voids in the world. I know it's easier said than done, but at some point you can't let someone tamper with the evidence and the only way to do that is send your own forces in to secure the site. Strongly worded letters are not going to work with drunk Russians who shoot down commercial aircraft. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:20:20 AM EDT
[#30]
Bloomberg News ?@BloombergNews 17m
Hollande prepared to cancel French warship sale to Russia |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:24:59 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh crap, they even got the Canadians mad. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh crap, they even got the Canadians mad. Mark MacKinnon ?@markmackinnon 4h On #MH17, Canada says Russia "may not have pulled the trigger but it certainly loaded the gun." More sanctions coming http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/mh17-ottawa-blames-putin-for-downed-malaysian-airliner/article19689234/#dashboard/follows/ … Canada: "We're sorry, but we're angry. Time for Putin to go down the Garburator eh." |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:29:34 AM EDT
[#32]
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There are actually several different anti-aircraft warhead types. I don't know about Russian equipment, but the most common style used in US missiles is the continuous rod warhead. Basically, there is a band of linked metal rods that wraps around the explosive charge and when it detonates, the rods expand and the cable that links them spreads out in a big, connected circle. The idea being that the circle with slice anything parallel to the missile and within range. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous-rod_warhead http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous-rod_warhead#mediaviewer/File:Continuous-rod-warhead.gif http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/CRWarheadTest.jpg I think most Russian stuff is simple blast fragment warheads though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hi stupid question here. Was on the original 15 pages or so then jumped up huge over the weekend. I admit I went straight the the last few pages Why does everything have holes in it. Looks like a giant shotgun took it out. I read that they detonate a few meters away, are they designed to make things into Swiss cheese? Greater probability of a "hit"? Sorry for the stupid question. SAMs blow up near their target and shower it with shrapnel. Greater chance of a hit and of hitting something important. There are actually several different anti-aircraft warhead types. I don't know about Russian equipment, but the most common style used in US missiles is the continuous rod warhead. Basically, there is a band of linked metal rods that wraps around the explosive charge and when it detonates, the rods expand and the cable that links them spreads out in a big, connected circle. The idea being that the circle with slice anything parallel to the missile and within range. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous-rod_warhead http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous-rod_warhead#mediaviewer/File:Continuous-rod-warhead.gif http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/CRWarheadTest.jpg I think most Russian stuff is simple blast fragment warheads though. Article "The explosive fill of an SA-11 is encased in a double sleeve of molded aluminum that has been preformed into a diamond-patterned grid, Mr. Foster said. After the burnout of motors, the missile, which would then weigh about 800 pounds, would approach the targeted aircraft and a proximity fuze would detonate its warhead, causing its sleeves to shatter into diamond-shaped bits about the size of a quarter. Depending on the model, the standoff for the blast might be 30 to 100 meters, Mr. Foster said, or about 100 to 300 feet." The Mr. Foster referenced is an analyst for Janes. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:34:05 AM EDT
[#33]
We have a #hashtag
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:36:03 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not nearly as gay as using the pads off of a crutch as an improvised recoil pad. Does this guy execute a lot of people? I'm thinking you'd have to fire a lot of shots from an AK to really think it warrants a recoil pad. I've never fired shots angled downward at people on their knees - does this hurt your shoulder more? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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First thought I had was that the guy on the right missed his calling to be a '80s action movie villan http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1917128/thumbs/o-ALEXANDER-BORODAI-900.jpg That photographer who took that pic is so gay. Not nearly as gay as using the pads off of a crutch as an improvised recoil pad. Does this guy execute a lot of people? I'm thinking you'd have to fire a lot of shots from an AK to really think it warrants a recoil pad. I've never fired shots angled downward at people on their knees - does this hurt your shoulder more? Um, that pad is a standard part for AK-74s with the metal folding stock. http://www.k-var.com/shop/AK-005B.html http://www.k-var.com/shop/AK-BFS.html |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:37:13 AM EDT
[#35]
Maxim Eristavi ?@MaximEristavi 4m
Ukraine parliament today: pro-Russia MP Levchenko literally kicked out of the building 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:44:06 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryWe need one against Putin Perhaps #PutinIsAMeanie There have to be pictures showing Michelle lashing out against this. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:44:27 AM EDT
[#37]
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Not nearly as gay as using the pads off of a crutch as an improvised recoil pad. Does this guy execute a lot of people? I'm thinking you'd have to fire a lot of shots from an AK to really think it warrants a recoil pad. I've never fired shots angled downward at people on their knees - does this hurt your shoulder more? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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First thought I had was that the guy on the right missed his calling to be a '80s action movie villan http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1917128/thumbs/o-ALEXANDER-BORODAI-900.jpg That photographer who took that pic is so gay. Not nearly as gay as using the pads off of a crutch as an improvised recoil pad. Does this guy execute a lot of people? I'm thinking you'd have to fire a lot of shots from an AK to really think it warrants a recoil pad. I've never fired shots angled downward at people on their knees - does this hurt your shoulder more? You didn't see what I did there. 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:59:14 AM EDT
[#38]
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Humor, my good man...I should have put behind it. Definitely Russian equipment but we don't know who was in control of said launcher.Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ukraine has never denied having operational Buks. Did they have any inside territory held by the Russians? You mean Russian separatists? Yes, the separatists were reported to have seized a Ukrainian ADA base; one would assume that is probably where they got them from. No, Russians. The BUK that was seen being driven away from the seen the day MH17 was downed was missing a missile, and was not one seized from Ukraine. Russia has provided tanks, MLRS and BUKs to their citizens fighting in Ukraine. Do you think they started from scratch and trained a new crew on the BUK, or wouldn't it make more sense just to send a trained crew with it? Humor, my good man...I should have put behind it. Definitely Russian equipment but we don't know who was in control of said launcher.Sure we do, Russians. They're very complicated machines, and it would take either a) Crew from the country of Origin to operate it. or b) People from the country of origin to train other russians to use it. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:02:45 AM EDT
[#39]
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You didn't see what I did there.
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First thought I had was that the guy on the right missed his calling to be a '80s action movie villan http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1917128/thumbs/o-ALEXANDER-BORODAI-900.jpg That photographer who took that pic is so gay. Not nearly as gay as using the pads off of a crutch as an improvised recoil pad. Does this guy execute a lot of people? I'm thinking you'd have to fire a lot of shots from an AK to really think it warrants a recoil pad. I've never fired shots angled downward at people on their knees - does this hurt your shoulder more? You didn't see what I did there.
I did 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:04:30 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maxim Eristavi ?@MaximEristavi 4m Ukraine parliament today: pro-Russia MP Levchenko literally kicked out of the building https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtJ6thxCAAIkuUk.jpg Needs more kicks to the scrotum |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:07:47 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We need one against Putin Perhaps #PutinIsAMeanie There have to be pictures showing Michelle lashing out against this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
We need one against Putin Perhaps #PutinIsAMeanie There have to be pictures showing Michelle lashing out against this. I would wear that shirt, just saying. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:19:48 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maxim Eristavi ?@MaximEristavi 4m Ukraine parliament today: pro-Russia MP Levchenko literally kicked out of the building https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtJ6thxCAAIkuUk.jpg The Ukrainians banned the communist party, and the Russians on the other forum are saying they are ethnic cleansing neo nazi's. Whenme and a Romanian called the Russians out on their bullshit [both me and the romanian guy suffered under Soviet opression] the russian posters blamed us for the actions of the soviets and said we had a Russian hating Agenda. They'll kill a guys family, then say the survivors have an agenda 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:21:27 AM EDT
[#43]
I've read where the training to man a BUK launcher takes roughly two years to complete.
Now, who in the fuck believes Russians were not involved?
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:26:41 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maxim Eristavi ?@MaximEristavi 4m Ukraine parliament today: pro-Russia MP Levchenko literally kicked out of the building https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtJ6thxCAAIkuUk.jpg grumpycatgood.jpg |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:33:26 AM EDT
[#45]
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I've read where the training to man a BUK launcher takes roughly two years to complete. Now, who in the fuck believes Russians were not involved? I saw that here but consider it unconfirmed. No doubt to be proficient and capable of not shooting innocent planes must take substantive training. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:39:28 AM EDT
[#46]
What are they hiding? Maybe it was not a SA-11
NBC Nightly News ?@NBCNightlyNews 1h #MH17 wreckage 'hacked into' with power saws, international monitors say http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-plane-crash/mh17-wreckage-has-been-hacked-saws-osce-says-n161846 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:43:32 AM EDT
[#47]
Ilya Mouzykantskii ?@ilyamuz 11m
front page of moscow freesheet accuses "kiev regime" of killing erryone, asks "who's next" 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:48:45 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've read where the training to man a BUK launcher takes roughly two years to complete. Now, who in the fuck believes Russians were not involved? It might take 2 years to get good enough to track an aircraft that is fighting back (ECM), however I cannot possibly imagine it takes to years to track some bitch-assed civilian airliner. Nonetheless, the Russians were somehow involved. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 8:01:38 AM EDT
[#49]
Before I post this I am going to say in no way do I believe the separatists aren't responsible there bold italics and underlined so everyone gets it. so now that thats out of the way: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b94_1406035322
The only reason I post it is because its amazing how much is fed to us through media and kind of scary because who would know what to believe |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 8:01:52 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Needs more kicks to the scrotum Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maxim Eristavi ?@MaximEristavi 4m Ukraine parliament today: pro-Russia MP Levchenko literally kicked out of the building https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtJ6thxCAAIkuUk.jpg Needs more kicks to the scrotum Yes, how dare he as a MP criticize military operations that is causing hundreds of civilian deaths. |
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