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Posted: 7/6/2014 8:27:34 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
While I have a pretty decent thread about this over in team, I figure it’s time to bring this back to GD. Usually I just post this when peoples ask if a slide fire stock is any good, but after a couple of recent threads, I figured I'd make my own. This thread is for people who hate bump fire stocks and think are something only for mouthbreathers. Apparently it’s common knowledge to everyone except newbs and redneck yokels like myself that bump fire stocks (like the Slide Fire and Fostech stocks) are complete and utter shit. They are literally impossible to control and totally useless for anything other than a 45° cone of spray-fire. They are a toy, unlike 95% of the range-queen carbines here that are war machines and ready to go as soon as the Ruskies start dropping in over Calumet. Everyone knows that the best way to implement real machine guns like the M249 is offhand, and that the bipod on the end of it is just for looks. That's why every video you see of someone with a BF stock is some guy hosing it into a berm from the standing position. Besides, laying down prone is hard and you often get wet and dirty.... EWW! If you can't hit shit with the bump stock from the offhand position, it must be useless, right? I’m making this thread so all the diehard haters can all show me how stupid my dedicated bump fire rifle is. I'm honestly interested to hear it. There is no spring action funny business going on here. It's a plain old semi-auto M4gery retrofitted to take an M60 bipod, dissipator handguards, SD3G trigger, and a bump stock. It’s within the law in every way. Outside of maybe looks or cost of feeding it, I would say this thing is pretty legit. This is it in its most recent configuration. I think it’s actually OK looking, but that’s just me. http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i172/schkoot/20140501_153320_zpse5hmeypi.jpg Here is my rifle on its most recent trip out. Outside of one bad primer and a light hammer strike, I'd say it ran pretty good. Still getting hits with the glare through the smoke and the sun making the target almost completely invisible.  http://youtu.be/hKojiATcVNU
Here it is bump firing and repeatedly hitting a Steel IPSC target from 250 yards away. Not terrible in my book. Even for a real M249, 250yds is pretty far away to keep it on a man-sized target. Turn up the sound, put it on HD and zoom in. It’s hitting. http://youtu.be/0Hrgh5txFKg
So haters... Go ahead and flame away!  I have to admit, that's pretty awesome.
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Posted: 7/6/2014 8:41:13 PM EDT
[#2]
Anyone doing one in 308?
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Posted: 7/6/2014 8:44:32 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ran out to the field and took a couple videos for your pleasure. http://youtu.be/xU_YcqSC5uY http://youtu.be/RpA-cd5cbjg Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Dude... Your backyard is awesome!!! Gonna guess around 1100ish on the rpm. |
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Posted: 7/6/2014 9:02:04 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I liked your buds revolver rant video better, cokeman. Been shooting your Makarov in your house much lately? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Do I need to jump in with my homemade bumpfire stock goodness? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-weEyRr0ig
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoR8uYVojko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK4T59oFhAUI liked your buds revolver rant video better, cokeman. Been shooting your Makarov in your house much lately? That video was pretty interesting I will admit. Funny thing is I've never met Cokeman or tmhonfire yet. |
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Posted: 7/6/2014 10:03:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dude... Your backyard is awesome!!! Gonna guess around 1100ish on the rpm. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ran out to the field and took a couple videos for your pleasure. http://youtu.be/xU_YcqSC5uY http://youtu.be/RpA-cd5cbjg Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Dude... Your backyard is awesome!!! Gonna guess around 1100ish on the rpm. Downside is the 30 minute drive to buy anything. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 7/6/2014 10:18:48 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ran out to the field and took a couple videos for your pleasure. http://youtu.be/xU_YcqSC5uY http://youtu.be/RpA-cd5cbjg Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Pretty cool to think a $200 stock can do what it takes a $15K+ transferable to do, PLUS no paperwork or tax stamp. |
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Posted: 7/6/2014 10:50:06 PM EDT
[#7]
SkilletsUSMC, do you use steel cased stuff at all? If so, how does it cycle?
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Posted: 7/6/2014 11:04:47 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That video was pretty interesting I will admit. Funny thing is I've never met Cokeman or tmhonfire yet. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do I need to jump in with my homemade bumpfire stock goodness? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-weEyRr0ig
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoR8uYVojko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK4T59oFhAUI liked your buds revolver rant video better, cokeman. Been shooting your Makarov in your house much lately? That video was pretty interesting I will admit. Funny thing is I've never met Cokeman or tmhonfire yet. I'm still convinced you're cokeman, same voice, same accent, same profanity laced vocabulary. |
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Posted: 7/6/2014 11:17:26 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
960 RPM. Pretty cool to think a $200 stock can do what it takes a $15K+ transferable to do, PLUS no paperwork or tax stamp. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ran out to the field and took a couple videos for your pleasure. http://youtu.be/xU_YcqSC5uY http://youtu.be/RpA-cd5cbjg Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Pretty cool to think a $200 stock can do what it takes a $15K+ transferable to do, PLUS no paperwork or tax stamp. Ok. Fine. I'll do it. |
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Posted: 7/6/2014 11:22:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok. Fine. I'll do it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ran out to the field and took a couple videos for your pleasure. http://youtu.be/xU_YcqSC5uY http://youtu.be/RpA-cd5cbjg Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Pretty cool to think a $200 stock can do what it takes a $15K+ transferable to do, PLUS no paperwork or tax stamp. Ok. Fine. I'll do it.  |
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Posted: 7/6/2014 11:26:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Yeah, I think I'm sold on one of these finally.
That Fostech stock doesn't look too bad at all. Plus I bought a whole lot of drums & mags before the ban here in CO, and I don't really have a use for the drums otherwise. 
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Posted: 7/6/2014 11:52:32 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SkilletsUSMC, do you use steel cased stuff at all? If so, how does it cycle? Yeah I tend to use either wolf or tulammo. |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 12:09:51 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK, here is a quick breakdown of how I built mine. Not everything here is mandatory, but I feel like all the parts listed here contribute to the usability of the gun. Any AR-15 with 16” chrome lined carbine gas barrel. The contour on the end of the barrel matters a lot. (Price varies) Fostech Outdoors DefendAR-15 bump stock (~$500) YHM gas block—this is important if you want to use the M60 bipod (~$75) M60 bipod (~$200) Geissele SD3G trigger (~$260) Primary Arms 3X optic—found it cheap and figured I wouldn’t break the bank on something nice for a gamble project. It’s held up nicely. (~$175) Magpul rifle-length handguard. (~$40) BCM Gunfighter charging handle (~$45) Magpul BAD lever—if you don’t like it on your regular carbine, you’ll still want in on this for one-handed control. (~$30) Matech rear BUIS. (~$80) That breaks down to just over $1400 or so plus whatever rifle/mags you want to use. On the CHEAP you could do a plain SSAR-15 stock, PSA AR-15, and a different bipod for probably a bit over $1200 for everything. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Any chance of getting a breakdown of parts and cost? OK, here is a quick breakdown of how I built mine. Not everything here is mandatory, but I feel like all the parts listed here contribute to the usability of the gun. Any AR-15 with 16” chrome lined carbine gas barrel. The contour on the end of the barrel matters a lot. (Price varies) Fostech Outdoors DefendAR-15 bump stock (~$500) YHM gas block—this is important if you want to use the M60 bipod (~$75) M60 bipod (~$200) Geissele SD3G trigger (~$260) Primary Arms 3X optic—found it cheap and figured I wouldn’t break the bank on something nice for a gamble project. It’s held up nicely. (~$175) Magpul rifle-length handguard. (~$40) BCM Gunfighter charging handle (~$45) Magpul BAD lever—if you don’t like it on your regular carbine, you’ll still want in on this for one-handed control. (~$30) Matech rear BUIS. (~$80) That breaks down to just over $1400 or so plus whatever rifle/mags you want to use. On the CHEAP you could do a plain SSAR-15 stock, PSA AR-15, and a different bipod for probably a bit over $1200 for everything. Thanks, those were the things I was wondering about. |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 1:02:02 AM EDT
[#14]
I meant to add this earlier. Regarding 22lr.
I have one i use on a 7.5 in (556) with the pig brake and a surefire 40. This thing thumps. It feels close to the blast of a m2. I also keep the stock dedicated on my m&p 15-22. The only modification i did to it is put in a jard adjustable trigger (3.lbs) i originally tuned the trigger with no pull and break like glass but it wouldn't cycle the weapon. I actually had to adjust slop in the pull (still breaks like glass) to get it to cycle. After that i had no problem and it does mag dumps time after time. Weight isn't an issue because I've had some heavy optics on it to try and bog it down. Flash suppressor is a standard birdcage A2 you don't need those fancy muzzle cones and have to grease up the stock like some people do in their videos. |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 1:43:30 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks, those were the things I was wondering about. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Any chance of getting a breakdown of parts and cost? OK, here is a quick breakdown of how I built mine. Not everything here is mandatory, but I feel like all the parts listed here contribute to the usability of the gun. Any AR-15 with 16” chrome lined carbine gas barrel. The contour on the end of the barrel matters a lot. (Price varies) Fostech Outdoors DefendAR-15 bump stock (~$500) YHM gas block—this is important if you want to use the M60 bipod (~$75) M60 bipod (~$200) Geissele SD3G trigger (~$260) Primary Arms 3X optic—found it cheap and figured I wouldn’t break the bank on something nice for a gamble project. It’s held up nicely. (~$175) Magpul rifle-length handguard. (~$40) BCM Gunfighter charging handle (~$45) Magpul BAD lever—if you don’t like it on your regular carbine, you’ll still want in on this for one-handed control. (~$30) Matech rear BUIS. (~$80) That breaks down to just over $1400 or so plus whatever rifle/mags you want to use. On the CHEAP you could do a plain SSAR-15 stock, PSA AR-15, and a different bipod for probably a bit over $1200 for everything. Thanks, those were the things I was wondering about. When you get an idea of what you are thinking about using, shoot me an IM. M60 bipods aren't really suited for some handguards/rails. Thry I can give you specs if you need. I barely close on my magpul stuff. |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 2:11:41 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You sound like the spawn of Hank Hill and Boomhower, you also look like Bill. ETA:  beat!Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Do I need to jump in with my homemade bumpfire stock goodness? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-weEyRr0ig
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoR8uYVojko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK4T59oFhAUYou sound like the spawn of Hank Hill and Boomhower, you also look like Bill. ETA: beat!I laughed my ass off at those videos!!!! and at the same time, I want to buy what he made, that was awesome!!! |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 2:16:03 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
gay wow great post |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 2:17:21 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like. Funny part being, he's trying to read too far into everything. The ATF rules on what's in front of them, not how, or who, it's used by. That's why the clarification letter came out stating that shooting a sig arm brace from the shoulder does NOT make it a shoulder stock, as they don't regulate how a legal product is used. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I agree. I'm just waiting for the first idiot to get arrested with one, and claim the letter gives them the ok. An ATF opinion letter is only valid for the person it's addressed to, and in the letter they clearly state they made it for "handicap" shooters. I'm not handicapped. So I'm not legal to own it? According to the letter I'm not.  You talking about the Sig brace? Funny part being, he's trying to read too far into everything. The ATF rules on what's in front of them, not how, or who, it's used by. That's why the clarification letter came out stating that shooting a sig arm brace from the shoulder does NOT make it a shoulder stock, as they don't regulate how a legal product is used. Shoelaces. 
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Posted: 7/7/2014 2:28:52 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shoelaces. Quote HistoryQuoted: snip Shoelaces. Good point, I guess that was too broad of a statement. |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 12:25:44 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You talking about the Sig brace? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I agree. I'm just waiting for the first idiot to get arrested with one, and claim the letter gives them the ok. An ATF opinion letter is only valid for the person it's addressed to, and in the letter they clearly state they made it for "handicap" shooters. I'm not handicapped. So I'm not legal to own it? According to the letter I'm not. You talking about the Sig brace? No. The slide fire. I realized after the fact you do like them, but the fact still remains. |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 12:30:27 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good point, I guess that was too broad of a statement. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
snip
Shoelaces. Good point, I guess that was too broad of a statement. As with everything it depends on what the DA where something may happen and if the local ATF field office is bored or has a new hot shot that wants to prove themselves. You never know, and it's all a crap shoot. But yes, to say that everyone who bought one is in the clear just simple isn't the case, the ATF has gone back on opinion letters before, no reason something legal now won't be in a couple of months or years. |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 12:49:08 PM EDT
[#22]
I love my Slide Fires though I have to say the one on my AK scares the shit out of me since I can barely control it.
 The 9mm slide fire with the suppressor is quite the blast though. Definitely need to start looking for a M60 bipod now.... |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 1:23:57 PM EDT
[#23]
Where are you guys getting these bipods?
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Posted: 7/7/2014 2:55:25 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. The slide fire. I realized after the fact you do like them, but the fact still remains. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I agree. I'm just waiting for the first idiot to get arrested with one, and claim the letter gives them the ok. An ATF opinion letter is only valid for the person it's addressed to, and in the letter they clearly state they made it for "handicap" shooters. I'm not handicapped. So I'm not legal to own it? According to the letter I'm not. You talking about the Sig brace? No. The slide fire. I realized after the fact you do like them, but the fact still remains. This is probably the only valid complaint against the stocks, but I'm not concerned about it obviously. Somehow they are going to have to determine that the stock either makes the gun fire more than one round per function of the trigger or fuck off. There's nothing on this gun that would make it any different than bumpfiring an AR with a OEM grip and stock. It just makes it more accurate. |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 3:14:52 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have put some thought into that, but I have also put some thought into an RPD and modding the stock to fit it. Right now, mag-linked P-Mags are the best for the $$$. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That is pretty cool. Have you put any thought into getting a shrike upper? I have put some thought into that, but I have also put some thought into an RPD and modding the stock to fit it. Right now, mag-linked P-Mags are the best for the $$$. I also looked into this possibility but as I understand it the semi auto trigger conversion is not dissimiler to the Sumoi in that it makes it wicked heavy! 
Still would rock to get it done for the DSA modernized RPD!!! |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 4:01:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I also looked into this possibility but as I understand it the semi auto trigger conversion is not dissimiler to the Sumoi in that it makes it wicked heavy!
Still would rock to get it done for the DSA modernized RPD!!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That is pretty cool. Have you put any thought into getting a shrike upper? I have put some thought into that, but I have also put some thought into an RPD and modding the stock to fit it. Right now, mag-linked P-Mags are the best for the $$$. I also looked into this possibility but as I understand it the semi auto trigger conversion is not dissimiler to the Sumoi in that it makes it wicked heavy!
Still would rock to get it done for the DSA modernized RPD!!! I have fingerfucked a couple—I didn't think it was THAT bad. It has a long pull through, but otherwise it would work. Besides, if you are dropping that much money on a gun, getting the trigger worked would be worth it.
If not, there is always one of these...
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Posted: 7/7/2014 4:22:30 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is probably the only valid complaint against the stocks, but I'm not concerned about it obviously. Somehow they are going to have to determine that the stock either makes the gun fire more than one round per function of the trigger or fuck off. There's nothing on this gun that would make it any different than bumpfiring an AR with a OEM grip and stock. It just makes it more accurate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I agree. I'm just waiting for the first idiot to get arrested with one, and claim the letter gives them the ok. An ATF opinion letter is only valid for the person it's addressed to, and in the letter they clearly state they made it for "handicap" shooters. I'm not handicapped. So I'm not legal to own it? According to the letter I'm not. You talking about the Sig brace? No. The slide fire. I realized after the fact you do like them, but the fact still remains. This is probably the only valid complaint against the stocks, but I'm not concerned about it obviously. Somehow they are going to have to determine that the stock either makes the gun fire more than one round per function of the trigger or fuck off. There's nothing on this gun that would make it any different than bumpfiring an AR with a OEM grip and stock. It just makes it more accurate. Right, and you are arguing about an agency that deemed shoe strings to be illegal. Logic doesn't apply.
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Posted: 7/7/2014 4:30:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Right, and you are arguing about an agency that deemed shoe strings to be illegal. Logic doesn't apply. Sure. Until then, I'll be bumping my gun and making videos. The more people that do the same, the better. What's funny is that if I could just register a lower as a MG, I wouldn't want anything to do with a bumpfire stock. |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 4:36:03 PM EDT
[#29]
I remember the original thread, I REALLY
 like this version of the rifle - well done! 
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Posted: 7/7/2014 4:39:27 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: H2 buffer would fix it as well, it's called carrier bounce and is pretty common in converted ar15 ' s and .22's... This thread makes me want to go take a quick video to check my cyclic rate. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Have to admit, I am seriously impressed. And that's coming from an M16 owner, though I've never had an issue with bump stocks. Really cool friend...tempted to try this with my other rifle that has the SD3G in it When I paired the Fostech stock with the SD3G trigger I was getting insane rates of fire...and LOTS of failures. It was literally so efficient that the "bump action" was beating the BCG back into battery, causing the trigger to drop the hammer on the bolt early. Sort of a weird hammer follow. I solved it with Madcap's suggestion to put silicone grease on the moving part of the stock and slow it down. I think it might be OK with the polymer Slide Fire. H2 buffer would fix it as well, it's called carrier bounce and is pretty common in converted ar15 ' s and .22's... This thread makes me want to go take a quick video to check my cyclic rate. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Lighter carriers would probably help as they increase cycle speed without adding non-reciprocating mass which can then lead to bolt bounce. A slower lock time might actually be beneficial as well. This would give a few more milliseconds for the carrier to close before the hammer impacts the back of it. Another item that might help with ignition is an extended firing pin (like the 7.62x39 extended firing pins). These firing pins will stick out .010 more than a standard pin and may result in ignition (even if it's a hare earlier than a normal firing pin would). It's not much but without an auto sear it's hard to control the variables. What I would like to build is a camming trigger block (or lockout) that interfaces with the M16 carrier and only allows the trigger to be pulled when the bolt closes. This will solve the timing issues without adding an auto sear. Essentially an automatically engaging safety that clicks into place when the trigger is released then moves out of the way when the carrier closes. |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 4:41:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right, and you are arguing about an agency that deemed shoe strings to be illegal. Logic doesn't apply. Quote HistoryQuoted: snip Right, and you are arguing about an agency that deemed shoe strings to be illegal. Logic doesn't apply. I think since then it may have got pulled, don't know. |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 5:16:51 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
..you would need to use it with beta mags combined using an 18-20'' heavy barrel... Beta's are toys for range use - I would not use one for 'civilian defensive situations'. (http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/jul2003/a072803b.html) |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 5:19:14 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree. I'm just waiting for the first idiot to get arrested with one, and claim the letter gives them the ok. An ATF opinion letter is only valid for the person it's addressed to, and in the letter they clearly state they made it for "handicap" shooters. I'm not handicapped. So I'm not legal to own it? According to the letter I'm not. You are part of the GD and have 59,462 posts so trust me you are handicapped it is just with mental illness 
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Posted: 7/7/2014 5:25:22 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: snip What I would like to build is a camming trigger block (or lockout) that interfaces with the M16 carrier and only allows the trigger to be pulled when the bolt closes. This will solve the timing issues without adding an auto sear. Essentially an automatically engaging safety that clicks into place when the trigger is released then moves out of the way when the carrier closes. After the tac-con trigger debacle it made me realize the crazy amount of room in an AR lower for alternative trigger designs. I'm no engineer but I was theorizing on pen and paper with a similar sounding set up, a cam based fully mechanical trigger reset based around the hammer camming the trigger forward with an interrupter/ disconnector that kept the hammer from dropping until the bolt closed. The alternative was try to shoehorn an up-sized 1911 trigger in there. |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 5:36:43 PM EDT
[#35]
I like my Slidefire, It just gets expensive to feed it.
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Posted: 7/7/2014 5:41:02 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like my Slidefire, It just gets expensive to feed it. Two things: 1) Steel case all day, every day. 2) Shoot with a purpose. I record about 75% of all the rounds fired out of this thing to see what is going right or wrong. How can I make it more reliable, accurate, or faster to manipulate. Some of you may laugh, but I have put a lot of work into this thing. |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 5:44:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great minds think alike After the tac-con trigger debacle it made me realize the crazy amount of room in an AR lower for alternative trigger designs. I'm no engineer but I was theorizing on pen and paper with a similar sounding set up, a cam based fully mechanical trigger reset based around the hammer camming the trigger forward with an interrupter/ disconnector that kept the hammer from dropping until the bolt closed. The alternative was try to shoehorn an up-sized 1911 trigger in there. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: snip What I would like to build is a camming trigger block (or lockout) that interfaces with the M16 carrier and only allows the trigger to be pulled when the bolt closes. This will solve the timing issues without adding an auto sear. Essentially an automatically engaging safety that clicks into place when the trigger is released then moves out of the way when the carrier closes. After the tac-con trigger debacle it made me realize the crazy amount of room in an AR lower for alternative trigger designs. I'm no engineer but I was theorizing on pen and paper with a similar sounding set up, a cam based fully mechanical trigger reset based around the hammer camming the trigger forward with an interrupter/ disconnector that kept the hammer from dropping until the bolt closed. The alternative was try to shoehorn an up-sized 1911 trigger in there. |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 6:13:00 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The tac-con didn't seem to have a full forced reset. I wonder if the ATF would sign off on a full forced reset. Alternatively you could use a reciprocating trigger weight. 3lb initial pull, increases to 8lb while carrier is back, drops back to 3lb when the carrier resets. This eliminates any possible binding issues that a forced cam might run into. Combine it with a short reset and it should be really fun, you could even put it on a 3 position system
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
snip What I would like to build is a camming trigger block (or lockout) that interfaces with the M16 carrier and only allows the trigger to be pulled when the bolt closes. This will solve the timing issues without adding an auto sear. Essentially an automatically engaging safety that clicks into place when the trigger is released then moves out of the way when the carrier closes.
After the tac-con trigger debacle it made me realize the crazy amount of room in an AR lower for alternative trigger designs. I'm no engineer but I was theorizing on pen and paper with a similar sounding set up, a cam based fully mechanical trigger reset based around the hammer camming the trigger forward with an interrupter/ disconnector that kept the hammer from dropping until the bolt closed. The alternative was try to shoehorn an up-sized 1911 trigger in there.
All of that sounds good, and if it existed I'd use it. For now, I think keeping the bump-rate slightly slower is fine.
700rpm seems almost ideal anyway. Madcap has my first video @ 840 BTW. |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 6:28:37 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The tac-con didn't seem to have a full forced reset. I wonder if the ATF would sign off on a full forced reset. Alternatively you could use a reciprocating trigger weight. 3lb initial pull, increases to 8lb while carrier is back, drops back to 3lb when the carrier resets. This eliminates any possible binding issues that a forced cam might run into. Combine it with a short reset and it should be really fun, you could even put it on a 3 position system Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: snip Even Jerry Miculek couldn't get it to go faster than any other normal guy, so that's saying something. We now return you to the regularly scheduled slidefire thread. |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 6:31:01 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yea, I wonder how much of that no full force reset was avoiding a machine gun slap, since it could allow constant pressure, and how much was a result of constant pressure causing too much drag or something. Even Jerry Miculek couldn't get it to go faster than any other normal guy, so that's saying something. We now return you to the regularly scheduled slidefire thread. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
snip
Even Jerry Miculek couldn't get it to go faster than any other normal guy, so that's saying something. We now return you to the regularly scheduled slidefire thread. ...but it has three positions: Missionary, Cowgirl AND Doggy 
Edit: that would make a great receiver engraving...
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Posted: 7/7/2014 8:02:40 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...but it has three positions: Missionary, Cowgirl AND Doggy
Edit: that would make a great receiver engraving...
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
snip
Even Jerry Miculek couldn't get it to go faster than any other normal guy, so that's saying something. We now return you to the regularly scheduled slidefire thread. ...but it has three positions: Missionary, Cowgirl AND Doggy
Edit: that would make a great receiver engraving...
Is that reverse cowgirl?
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Posted: 7/7/2014 8:08:42 PM EDT
[#42]
One day I'll get a three position marked "Headache, lovemaking, fucking".
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Posted: 7/7/2014 8:18:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK, here is a quick breakdown of how I built mine. Not everything here is mandatory, but I feel like all the parts listed here contribute to the usability of the gun. Any AR-15 with 16” chrome lined carbine gas barrel. The contour on the end of the barrel matters a lot. (Price varies) Fostech Outdoors DefendAR-15 bump stock (~$500) YHM gas block—this is important if you want to use the M60 bipod (~$75) M60 bipod (~$200) Geissele SD3G trigger (~$260) Primary Arms 3X optic—found it cheap and figured I wouldn’t break the bank on something nice for a gamble project. It’s held up nicely. (~$175) Magpul rifle-length handguard. (~$40) BCM Gunfighter charging handle (~$45) Magpul BAD lever—if you don’t like it on your regular carbine, you’ll still want in on this for one-handed control. (~$30) Matech rear BUIS. (~$80) That breaks down to just over $1400 or so plus whatever rifle/mags you want to use. On the CHEAP you could do a plain SSAR-15 stock, PSA AR-15, and a different bipod for probably a bit over $1200 for everything. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Any chance of getting a breakdown of parts and cost? OK, here is a quick breakdown of how I built mine. Not everything here is mandatory, but I feel like all the parts listed here contribute to the usability of the gun. Any AR-15 with 16” chrome lined carbine gas barrel. The contour on the end of the barrel matters a lot. (Price varies) Fostech Outdoors DefendAR-15 bump stock (~$500) YHM gas block—this is important if you want to use the M60 bipod (~$75) M60 bipod (~$200) Geissele SD3G trigger (~$260) Primary Arms 3X optic—found it cheap and figured I wouldn’t break the bank on something nice for a gamble project. It’s held up nicely. (~$175) Magpul rifle-length handguard. (~$40) BCM Gunfighter charging handle (~$45) Magpul BAD lever—if you don’t like it on your regular carbine, you’ll still want in on this for one-handed control. (~$30) Matech rear BUIS. (~$80) That breaks down to just over $1400 or so plus whatever rifle/mags you want to use. On the CHEAP you could do a plain SSAR-15 stock, PSA AR-15, and a different bipod for probably a bit over $1200 for everything. Any reason why your using a carbine length gas system,instead of a mid length? |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 8:27:54 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any reason why your using a carbine length gas system,instead of a mid length? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Any chance of getting a breakdown of parts and cost? OK, here is a quick breakdown of how I built mine. Not everything here is mandatory, but I feel like all the parts listed here contribute to the usability of the gun. Any AR-15 with 16” chrome lined carbine gas barrel. The contour on the end of the barrel matters a lot. (Price varies) Fostech Outdoors DefendAR-15 bump stock (~$500) YHM gas block—this is important if you want to use the M60 bipod (~$75) M60 bipod (~$200) Geissele SD3G trigger (~$260) Primary Arms 3X optic—found it cheap and figured I wouldn’t break the bank on something nice for a gamble project. It’s held up nicely. (~$175) Magpul rifle-length handguard. (~$40) BCM Gunfighter charging handle (~$45) Magpul BAD lever—if you don’t like it on your regular carbine, you’ll still want in on this for one-handed control. (~$30) Matech rear BUIS. (~$80) That breaks down to just over $1400 or so plus whatever rifle/mags you want to use. On the CHEAP you could do a plain SSAR-15 stock, PSA AR-15, and a different bipod for probably a bit over $1200 for everything. Any reason why your using a carbine length gas system,instead of a mid length? More thrusts per squeeze |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 8:59:33 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any reason why your using a carbine length gas system,instead of a mid length? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Any chance of getting a breakdown of parts and cost? OK, here is a quick breakdown of how I built mine. Not everything here is mandatory, but I feel like all the parts listed here contribute to the usability of the gun. Any AR-15 with 16” chrome lined carbine gas barrel. The contour on the end of the barrel matters a lot. (Price varies) Fostech Outdoors DefendAR-15 bump stock (~$500) YHM gas block—this is important if you want to use the M60 bipod (~$75) M60 bipod (~$200) Geissele SD3G trigger (~$260) Primary Arms 3X optic—found it cheap and figured I wouldn’t break the bank on something nice for a gamble project. It’s held up nicely. (~$175) Magpul rifle-length handguard. (~$40) BCM Gunfighter charging handle (~$45) Magpul BAD lever—if you don’t like it on your regular carbine, you’ll still want in on this for one-handed control. (~$30) Matech rear BUIS. (~$80) That breaks down to just over $1400 or so plus whatever rifle/mags you want to use. On the CHEAP you could do a plain SSAR-15 stock, PSA AR-15, and a different bipod for probably a bit over $1200 for everything. Any reason why your using a carbine length gas system,instead of a mid length? Only because I wanted a very violent action to facilitate the bump. With the Fostech I don't think it's necessary anymore. |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 10:50:52 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Great minds think alike
After the tac-con trigger debacle it made me realize the crazy amount of room in an AR lower for alternative trigger designs. I'm no engineer but I was theorizing on pen and paper with a similar sounding set up, a cam based fully mechanical trigger reset based around the hammer camming the trigger forward with an interrupter/ disconnector that kept the hammer from dropping until the bolt closed. The alternative was try to shoehorn an up-sized 1911 trigger in there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
snip What I would like to build is a camming trigger block (or lockout) that interfaces with the M16 carrier and only allows the trigger to be pulled when the bolt closes. This will solve the timing issues without adding an auto sear. Essentially an automatically engaging safety that clicks into place when the trigger is released then moves out of the way when the carrier closes.
After the tac-con trigger debacle it made me realize the crazy amount of room in an AR lower for alternative trigger designs. I'm no engineer but I was theorizing on pen and paper with a similar sounding set up, a cam based fully mechanical trigger reset based around the hammer camming the trigger forward with an interrupter/ disconnector that kept the hammer from dropping until the bolt closed. The alternative was try to shoehorn an up-sized 1911 trigger in there. Aren't "safety sears" what the guy from Shotgun News was selling? |
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Posted: 7/7/2014 11:24:10 PM EDT
[#47]
You need bigger magazine and longer string of rounds. Can you do a full beta magazine dump with your set up with no stoppages.
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Posted: 7/7/2014 11:44:09 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Aren't "safety sears" what the guy from Shotgun News was selling? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: snip What I would like to build is a camming trigger block (or lockout) that interfaces with the M16 carrier and only allows the trigger to be pulled when the bolt closes. This will solve the timing issues without adding an auto sear. Essentially an automatically engaging safety that clicks into place when the trigger is released then moves out of the way when the carrier closes. After the tac-con trigger debacle it made me realize the crazy amount of room in an AR lower for alternative trigger designs. I'm no engineer but I was theorizing on pen and paper with a similar sounding set up, a cam based fully mechanical trigger reset based around the hammer camming the trigger forward with an interrupter/ disconnector that kept the hammer from dropping until the bolt closed. The alternative was try to shoehorn an up-sized 1911 trigger in there. Aren't "safety sears" what the guy from Shotgun News was selling? |
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Posted: 7/8/2014 12:20:14 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You need bigger magazine and longer string of rounds. Can you do a full beta magazine dump with your set up with no stoppages. With this set up, yes I can. But just like with a real SAW I am shooting it at the sustained/rapid rate. I'll do a 100 round mag dump just for you...
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Posted: 7/8/2014 8:59:08 AM EDT
[#50]
here are pics of the m60 bipod adapter I made last year
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