User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:09:55 PM EDT
[#1]
Interesting, thanks.
I have nothing else to add except that the Gerrys should have adopted the AR. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:13:52 PM EDT
[#2]
In my salad days, when I knew dick about rifles (just the usual bullshit plus stuff I had read) I wanted a G36K.
Then I found out that I sucked and HK hated me. My first EBR was a S&W M&P15a in 2006. It started, for me, a love affair with the modern iteration of the AR-15 platform. Thank you HK, for hating us so much that you drove me away from your shiny piece of shit rifle. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:14:04 PM EDT
[#3]
I thought those Germans made good stuff?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:15:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought those Germans made good stuff? Well to be fair they did make the VW Beatle. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:16:13 PM EDT
[#5]
So out of curiosity, how "hot" are we talking?
I mean, 110 degree day, does it require 10 mag dumps on full auto? Seriously. People talk a lot of shite about it, but if we ever get a civvy G36 in the states will it even be POSSIBLE to get it "hot" enough? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:16:57 PM EDT
[#6]
They need to trash that POS.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:17:04 PM EDT
[#7]
I say they should adopt a Colt Canada C7 series rifle just to make things right.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:17:34 PM EDT
[#8]
How is heat effecting it? Is the receiver made of plastic?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:18:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you HK, for hating us so much that you drove me away from your shiny piece of shit rifle. They really did do you a favor. I'd send them a Thank You card. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:20:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting, thanks. I have nothing else to add except that the Gerrys should have adopted the AR. With these teething problems it kinda is the like German equivalent of the early M16 problems  They will do the same thing we did, throw millions of dollars at it until fixed.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:21:07 PM EDT
[#11]
They should switch to the 416. Problem solved.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:21:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They really did do you a favor. I'd send them a Thank You card. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thank you HK, for hating us so much that you drove me away from your shiny piece of shit rifle. They really did do you a favor. I'd send them a Thank You card. HK customer service hated LE over here as well. The rifles have an awful stock on them as well...either too long or too short. We had them on SWAT (select fire) for a few years and they got dumped for Colt Commandos. Best decision ever. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:23:04 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
I was just reading the news (http://www.tagesschau.de/inland/g36-bundeswehr-106.html) and thought I'd share. In summary: The German equivalent of the House Ways and Means Committee is now requiring that all contracts between industry and the defense ministry have to be reviewed and OKd by the committee. This includes contracts in low value (less than 25M Euros)). The problem continues to be the perceived massive inaccuracy afflicting the G36 when it gets hot - up to 7x the allowable deviation. There's a confidential report that basically questions investing 34M Euros in a rifle that "isn't sufficient to meet the requirement of the troops." There was a report that blamed certain lots of ammo, and it is not currently clear if it's the rifle or the ammo. Basically: They're stopping further expenditures until they figure out what's going. HK has been offering a fix for years, but they want Germany to pay for it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:24:47 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How is heat effecting it? Is the receiver made of plastic? Barrel trunnion is metal and sits in plastic. Trunnion gets overheated, plastic melts, gun very inaccurate at that point. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:25:35 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well to be fair they did make the VW Beatle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I thought those Germans made good stuff? Well to be fair they did make the VW Beatle. What is that? I've never heard of it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:29:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Where are all the HK dicksuckers who flipped their shit on me when I pointed out the G36 has a history of problems and is generally inferior to its competitors?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:32:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So out of curiosity, how "hot" are we talking? I mean, 110 degree day, does it require 10 mag dumps on full auto? Seriously. People talk a lot of shite about it, but if we ever get a civvy G36 in the states will it even be POSSIBLE to get it "hot" enough? Go fire a mag or two out of an AR with the handguard off, then immediately grab the barrel near the barrel nut. Report back on your findings. If you can get the chamber hot enough to cook off rounds, it's a safe bet it may not be healthy for most polymers to structurally contact the same heat source. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:34:29 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With these teething problems it kinda is the like German equivalent of the early M16 problems They will do the same thing we did, throw millions of dollars at it until fixed.Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Interesting, thanks. I have nothing else to add except that the Gerrys should have adopted the AR. With these teething problems it kinda is the like German equivalent of the early M16 problems They will do the same thing we did, throw millions of dollars at it until fixed.Except their issues have been going on for over a decade. Heck the US Army figured out the damn gun was useless in a much shorter time (see XM-8). |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:35:27 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Barrel trunnion is metal and sits in plastic. Trunnion gets overheated, plastic melts, gun very inaccurate at that point. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How is heat effecting it? Is the receiver made of plastic? Barrel trunnion is metal and sits in plastic. Trunnion gets overheated, plastic melts, gun very inaccurate at that point. Seems like a simple fix. Make the upper receiver out of metal. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:35:59 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go fire a mag or two out of an AR with the handguard off, then immediately grab the barrel near the barrel nut. Report back on your findings. If you can get the chamber hot enough to cook off rounds, it's a safe bet it may not be healthy for most polymers to structurally contact the same heat source. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So out of curiosity, how "hot" are we talking? I mean, 110 degree day, does it require 10 mag dumps on full auto? Seriously. People talk a lot of shite about it, but if we ever get a civvy G36 in the states will it even be POSSIBLE to get it "hot" enough? Go fire a mag or two out of an AR with the handguard off, then immediately grab the barrel near the barrel nut. Report back on your findings. If you can get the chamber hot enough to cook off rounds, it's a safe bet it may not be healthy for most polymers to structurally contact the same heat source. What is hot for my hand to touch is not hot enough to deform plastic, necessarily. Again, what is the test that gets the G36 to start to fail? If it's 3 consecutive 100 round drum dumps on full auto at 110 degrees ambient temp, that has no impact on me. I don't care at all about how it does in a test like that. If it ever comes stateside I'd love to try one out. But I would like to know what the test shows. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:38:16 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seems like a simple fix. Make the upper receiver out of metal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is heat effecting it? Is the receiver made of plastic? Barrel trunnion is metal and sits in plastic. Trunnion gets overheated, plastic melts, gun very inaccurate at that point. Too heavy. And Asking your customer to pay up for your mistake! Craziness. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:39:52 PM EDT
[#22]
I hear the Tavor will be the replacement.....
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:41:41 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is that? I've never heard of it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I thought those Germans made good stuff? Well to be fair they did make the VW Beatle. What is that? I've never heard of it. It's like a Beetle only spelled wrong. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:43:58 PM EDT
[#24]
How did berretta arx160 not have the same problems.
If you look at the hk243 the barrel trunion area looks beefed up is all Metal. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:46:23 PM EDT
[#25]
Post-North Hollywood, a police friend's agency bought a bunch of G36s in a panic.
He discovered the G36 would not hold a zero over a wide temperature range. Think about that for police use: in a hostage situation, your G36's zero is way off due to temp and you accidentally shoot a hostage instead of the criminal hostage taker you aime at. 
He got the agency to get rid of their G36s for this exact reason. Some were shown the band-saw. Some were traded to other departments for useful gear (police do this all the time BTW). |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:46:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Hold the fucking phone. I thought HK was everything that was good and right with the world. Now you're telling me they put out a subpar product?
The fuck you say! |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:47:30 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How did berretta arx160 not have the same problems. If you look at the hk243 the barrel trunion area looks beefed up is all Metal. How long has G36 been around? How long has 160 been around? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:52:09 PM EDT
[#28]
Do they have stocks of the old G3 rifle? I would re issue them for now
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:52:49 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is hot for my hand to touch is not hot enough to deform plastic, necessarily. Again, what is the test that gets the G36 to start to fail? If it's 3 consecutive 100 round drum dumps on full auto at 110 degrees ambient temp, that has no impact on me. I don't care at all about how it does in a test like that. If it ever comes stateside I'd love to try one out. But I would like to know what the test shows. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So out of curiosity, how "hot" are we talking? I mean, 110 degree day, does it require 10 mag dumps on full auto? Seriously. People talk a lot of shite about it, but if we ever get a civvy G36 in the states will it even be POSSIBLE to get it "hot" enough? Go fire a mag or two out of an AR with the handguard off, then immediately grab the barrel near the barrel nut. Report back on your findings. If you can get the chamber hot enough to cook off rounds, it's a safe bet it may not be healthy for most polymers to structurally contact the same heat source. What is hot for my hand to touch is not hot enough to deform plastic, necessarily. Again, what is the test that gets the G36 to start to fail? If it's 3 consecutive 100 round drum dumps on full auto at 110 degrees ambient temp, that has no impact on me. I don't care at all about how it does in a test like that. If it ever comes stateside I'd love to try one out. But I would like to know what the test shows. You are aware that you can cook off a chambered round in a normal AR, right? Now, how hot do you suppose the barrel has to heat up a chambered round to cause thermal ignition? Now, how hot do you think most advanced polymers can get before losing their acceptable structural qualities? I'm sure if you baby a G-36, you can avoid this problem. If you have to baby it, what's the point? An AR does the same job, with common parts, for less money, without melty-melt issues. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:55:23 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How long has G36 been around? How long has 160 been around? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How did berretta arx160 not have the same problems. If you look at the hk243 the barrel trunion area looks beefed up is all Metal. How long has G36 been around? How long has 160 been around? The ARX-160 hasn't been around long enough or used in sufficient numbers to figure out how much it sucks balls. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:57:07 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except their issues have been going on for over a decade. Heck the US Army figured out the damn gun was useless in a much shorter time (see XM-8). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Interesting, thanks. I have nothing else to add except that the Gerrys should have adopted the AR. With these teething problems it kinda is the like German equivalent of the early M16 problems They will do the same thing we did, throw millions of dollars at it until fixed.Except their issues have been going on for over a decade. Heck the US Army figured out the damn gun was useless in a much shorter time (see XM-8). I wonder how many PV2s have beat off to the XM-8 in the Army Times? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 2:00:04 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The ARX-160 hasn't been around long enough or used in sufficient numbers to figure out how much it sucks balls. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How did berretta arx160 not have the same problems. If you look at the hk243 the barrel trunion area looks beefed up is all Metal. How long has G36 been around? How long has 160 been around? The ARX-160 hasn't been around long enough or used in sufficient numbers to figure out how much it sucks balls. 
Exactly my point |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 2:00:31 PM EDT
[#33]
Here's a G-36 trunnion area I cut long ago. Some of you may even recognize some of the images.
It's just a chunk of metal held by the plastic. It gets too hot, and it moves. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 2:01:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Why are they blaming the ammo? They using some kind of super hot loads or something?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 2:01:33 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's a G-36 trunnion area I cut long ago. Some of you may even recognize some of the images. It's just a chunk of metal held by the plastic. It gets too hot, and it moves. http://i.imgur.com/ZJnX1hq.jpg http://i.imgur.com/jrLBhkf.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ixgee0P.jpg Awesome. Thanks |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 2:02:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Recently did some training with a German and some Brits. Talked with the German a bit about the G36 and he said he loved it. Said he's never had a problem with it, even in Afghanistan. I know, CSB.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 2:09:35 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Interesting, thanks. I have nothing else to add except that the Gerrys should have adopted the AR. They did, it's just an AR18. Quoted:
I say they should adopt a Colt Canada C7 series rifle just to make things right. They should adopt the L85A2 since they already fixed that one for the Brits. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 2:17:35 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well to be fair they did make the VW Beatle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I thought those Germans made good stuff? Well to be fair they did make the VW Beatle. That's not a strong argument for "good stuff" and you know it. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 2:17:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are aware that you can cook off a chambered round in a normal AR, right? Now, how hot do you suppose the barrel has to heat up a chambered round to cause thermal ignition? Now, how hot do you think most advanced polymers can get before losing their acceptable structural qualities? I'm sure if you baby a G-36, you can avoid this problem. If you have to baby it, what's the point? An AR does the same job, with common parts, for less money, without melty-melt issues. You are offering anecdotal information that is common knowledge. A lot of polymers have a very high temperature resistance. Every material has a thermal expansion coefficient. Typically polymer has a higher one than steel, that is to say it changes shape more per degree of temperature rise. Ceramics are extremely low. That is why HK usually uses glass based polymers in their handguns and I assume their rifles. Additionally, different materials change strength characteristics as temperatures change. Both of these have a key role in what's going on with the G36. So again... what rate of fire, sustained for how long, with what ambient temperature is being used for the test? And it would be safe to assume that the accuracy would change slowly as the rifle heated up. What kind of rate of change are we talking about with the accuracy as it relates to the rate of fire? Why would I want a G36? Because in my opinion, it's a modernized fully ambidextrous AK47. Piston operated, easy as hell to clean, simple sleak sides that make carrying it on the back in a 3 point sling easy since it won't stab you, folding stock capability, much better irons than an AK, etc. The only thing I don't like about it on paper is that mag changes are slow because of the operation of the bolt that is required. Oh, and I'm sure the trigger is shit, but I'm an AUG guy so it'll probably be a huge upgrade. 
eta: some more things I like about it and to say: eta2: If every military gives up on the G36 for this issue off of the idea that it starts to lose accuracy at 3 mag dumps from 3 beta mags with 110 degrees ambient temperature, that has absolutely no bearing on the rifles capabilities in my hands as a civilian. So what I'm trying to figure out is when things go bad. I'd LOVE to conduct a test of my own on this. If I remember correctly they were trying to drop a G36 variant into the mix for a LMG support role. So... yikes. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 2:20:17 PM EDT
[#40]
I guess they'll go with the HK M4 now?
Funny how the 'awful' M4 is the go-to for so many militarys and particularly their SOF troops. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 2:37:33 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are they blaming the ammo? They using some kind of super hot loads or something? Lot-to-lot variation with temp sensitivity. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 3:54:55 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is that? I've never heard of it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I thought those Germans made good stuff? Well to be fair they did make the VW Beatle. What is that? I've never heard of it. They were that awesome german pop band that sang "Komm Gib Mir Deine Hand" |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 3:59:27 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seems like a simple fix. Make the upper receiver out of metal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is heat effecting it? Is the receiver made of plastic? Barrel trunnion is metal and sits in plastic. Trunnion gets overheated, plastic melts, gun very inaccurate at that point. That's sorta what the ACR is, a G36 without the silly charging handle arrangement (that increases the height over bore) and a metal receiver. The ACR was an internal project supposedly designed to overcome the deficiencies that Magpul saw in the XM8 (and thus G36). |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 4:02:04 PM EDT
[#44]
It's an inferior design.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 4:02:05 PM EDT
[#45]
German Engineering at it's finest.
So over-engineered it doesn't work. Hmm, that sounds familiar. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 4:03:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's an inferior design. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 4:04:38 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
German Engineering at it's finest. So over-engineered it doesn't work. Hmm, that sounds familiar. Jetta? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 4:06:18 PM EDT
[#48]
The G36 is a heap of plastic shit that HK fanboys masturbate to.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 4:06:54 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: snip Why would I want a G36? Because in my opinion, it's a modernized fully ambidextrous AK47. Piston operated, easy as hell to clean, simple sleak sides that make carrying it on the back in a 3 point sling easy since it won't stab you, folding stock capability, much better irons than an AK, etc. The only thing I don't like about it on paper is that mag changes are slow because of the operation of the bolt that is required. Oh, and I'm sure the trigger is shit, but I'm an AUG guy so it'll probably be a huge upgrade. snip It's a modernized AR-18 with a ghetto charging handle. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2014 4:07:52 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bullshit, it's an awesome design, poorly executed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's an inferior design. The end result still sucks, so it's splitting hairs. The 416 is awesome compared to the G36--it's just heavier than two lead bricks taped together, then taped to another lead brick. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
