User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 9/25/2014 6:24:38 PM EDT
[#1]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/25/2014 6:29:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't see how it means anything for the case. Eric Holder does not operate in a vacuum. His underlings are like-minded people in all likelihood. And BHOs replacement isn't going to decide the NFA is unconstitutional and just decide not to defend the lawsuit. Since Obama's nominees only need a 51 vote majority in the Senate now to be confirmed, I'd expect another anti-gun ideologue to be nominated and confirmed as the next AG. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Again I'll ask what this means for nolo's case. Especially if he is only out of his throne when BO "finds a replacement" I don't see how it means anything for the case. Eric Holder does not operate in a vacuum. His underlings are like-minded people in all likelihood. And BHOs replacement isn't going to decide the NFA is unconstitutional and just decide not to defend the lawsuit. Since Obama's nominees only need a 51 vote majority in the Senate now to be confirmed, I'd expect another anti-gun ideologue to be nominated and confirmed as the next AG. Better do it quick because Nov elections are around the corner. I suspect though he wouldn't have done it now unless he had a nominee ready to go and Reed has said he'll get him through. The alternative is O thinks the dems will hold the senate and is not worried. So far O's political machine has been very good. I don't like the guy but his people are shrewd politicians and they wouldn't do this now without good reason. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/25/2014 6:42:31 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Better do it quick because Nov elections are around the corner. I suspect though he wouldn't have done it now unless he had a nominee ready to go and Reed has said he'll get him through. The alternative is O thinks the dems will hold the senate and is not worried. So far O's political machine has been very good. I don't like the guy but his people are shrewd politicians and they wouldn't do this now without good reason. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Again I'll ask what this means for nolo's case. Especially if he is only out of his throne when BO "finds a replacement" I don't see how it means anything for the case. Eric Holder does not operate in a vacuum. His underlings are like-minded people in all likelihood. And BHOs replacement isn't going to decide the NFA is unconstitutional and just decide not to defend the lawsuit. Since Obama's nominees only need a 51 vote majority in the Senate now to be confirmed, I'd expect another anti-gun ideologue to be nominated and confirmed as the next AG. Better do it quick because Nov elections are around the corner. I suspect though he wouldn't have done it now unless he had a nominee ready to go and Reed has said he'll get him through. The alternative is O thinks the dems will hold the senate and is not worried. So far O's political machine has been very good. I don't like the guy but his people are shrewd politicians and they wouldn't do this now without good reason. They will probably just kill off a USSC Judge. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/25/2014 7:10:39 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Again I'll ask what this means for nolo's case. Especially if he is only out of his throne when BO "finds a replacement" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Again I'll ask what this means for nolo's case. Especially if he is only out of his throne when BO "finds a replacement" nothing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/25/2014 7:28:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Funny how outlawing alcoholic beverages (which have nospecific constitutional protections) required the ratification of aconstitutional amendment, but outlawing the manufacture, use and ownership ofentire classes of firearms (which do have specific constitutional protections) withoutpaying a debilitating tax, gaining federal approval and placing said firearm ona national registry did not… The NFA should be dismissed out of hand on that basis alone. 
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In 1932, when the National Firearms Act was first proposed and eventually in 1934 was signed into law, the St. Valentine's Day Massacre was still fresh in the public awareness. Machine guns were very popular among the gangs that organized into crime families as a direct result of Prohibition, which outlawed alcoholic beverages in 1920 and wasn't repealed until 1933. Bonnie & Clyde's two-year full-auto crime spree from 1932 to 1934 didn't help. John Dillinger was a national antihero, too. When the Great Depression took hold in 1929, crime flourished in those desperate times, as did the use of suppressors to poach game out-of-season and from private land. So I'll disagree with you that prior to 1934, most of the NFA violence was committed on movie sets. BTW, the repeal of Prohibition in 1933 left an entire branch of the U.S. government with sitting around nothing to do -- the revenuers who worked for the Prohibition Bureau. The passage the following year of the National Firearms Act gave them jobs again. (When was the last time the U.S. government laid off employees?) So NFA '34 was a win/win for Congress and the Administration. YMMV. Knowing history is a valuable skill. The NFA should be dismissed out of hand on that basis alone.
I use that same example all the time. I normally get a  look in return.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/25/2014 7:54:47 PM EDT
[#6]
I just read this statement on a news site and thought it was interesting.
Holder in the past year and a half secured criminal guilty pleas from two foreign banks and multibillion-dollar civil settlements with American banks arising from the sale of toxic mortgage-backed securities. Even then, critics noted that no individuals were held accountable. Corporations are an Individual and the top lawyer seems to concur. Probably hashed out already but I can't keep up reading through this thread 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/25/2014 8:03:44 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I use that same example all the time. I normally get a look in return. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In 1932, when the National Firearms Act was first proposed and eventually in 1934 was signed into law, the St. Valentine's Day Massacre was still fresh in the public awareness. Machine guns were very popular among the gangs that organized into crime families as a direct result of Prohibition, which outlawed alcoholic beverages in 1920 and wasn't repealed until 1933. Bonnie & Clyde's two-year full-auto crime spree from 1932 to 1934 didn't help. John Dillinger was a national antihero, too. When the Great Depression took hold in 1929, crime flourished in those desperate times, as did the use of suppressors to poach game out-of-season and from private land. So I'll disagree with you that prior to 1934, most of the NFA violence was committed on movie sets. BTW, the repeal of Prohibition in 1933 left an entire branch of the U.S. government with sitting around nothing to do -- the revenuers who worked for the Prohibition Bureau. The passage the following year of the National Firearms Act gave them jobs again. (When was the last time the U.S. government laid off employees?) So NFA '34 was a win/win for Congress and the Administration. YMMV. Knowing history is a valuable skill. The NFA should be dismissed out of hand on that basis alone.
I use that same example all the time. I normally get a look in return. yes but how many people has alcohol killed? None. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/25/2014 8:43:59 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
nothing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Again I'll ask what this means for nolo's case. Especially if he is only out of his throne when BO "finds a replacement" nothing. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/25/2014 8:47:32 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Better do it quick because Nov elections are around the corner. I suspect though he wouldn't have done it now unless he had a nominee ready to go and Reed has said he'll get him through. The alternative is O thinks the dems will hold the senate and is not worried. So far O's political machine has been very good. I don't like the guy but his people are shrewd politicians and they wouldn't do this now without good reason. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Again I'll ask what this means for nolo's case. Especially if he is only out of his throne when BO "finds a replacement" I don't see how it means anything for the case. Eric Holder does not operate in a vacuum. His underlings are like-minded people in all likelihood. And BHOs replacement isn't going to decide the NFA is unconstitutional and just decide not to defend the lawsuit. Since Obama's nominees only need a 51 vote majority in the Senate now to be confirmed, I'd expect another anti-gun ideologue to be nominated and confirmed as the next AG. Better do it quick because Nov elections are around the corner. I suspect though he wouldn't have done it now unless he had a nominee ready to go and Reed has said he'll get him through. The alternative is O thinks the dems will hold the senate and is not worried. So far O's political machine has been very good. I don't like the guy but his people are shrewd politicians and they wouldn't do this now without good reason. Don't want to keep drifting on Holder, but the elections are of no consequence... they'll ram through the pick in the lame duck after the election but before a new Republican controlled Senate takes over. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/25/2014 8:50:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Again I'll ask what this means for nolo's case. Especially if he is only out of his throne when BO "finds a replacement" nothing.
I think y'all will be pleased. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/25/2014 8:58:01 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think y'all will be pleased. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Originally Posted By teeli: Holder resigning.http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/09/25/351363171/eric-holder-to-step-down-as-attorney-general Again I'll ask what this means for nolo's case. Especially if he is only out of his throne when BO "finds a replacement" nothing. I think y'all will be pleased.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/25/2014 8:58:44 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think y'all will be pleased. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Again I'll ask what this means for nolo's case. Especially if he is only out of his throne when BO "finds a replacement" nothing.
I think y'all will be pleased. Can't wait to see it all unfold 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/25/2014 9:08:20 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can't wait to see it all unfold
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
snip. Can't wait to see it all unfold
This! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/25/2014 9:08:51 PM EDT
[#14]
I'm watching this quite closely.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/25/2014 10:58:37 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There were A LOT of SMG shootings in Miami and other large drug markets in the 80's. Virtually all of the guns were illegally converted open bolt semis and a sprinkling of guns stolen from the police or national guard armories. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They reacted to a series of gangster-related attacks on other gangsters, innocent civilians, and law enforcement that were committed with Title II firearms. The politicians did no such thing. Most of the "violence" committed with automatic weapons and short barreled shotguns occurred on movie sets. In 1932, when the National Firearms Act was first proposed and eventually in 1934 was signed into law, the St. Valentine's Day Massacre was still fresh in the public awareness. Machine guns were very popular among the gangs that organized into crime families as a direct result of Prohibition, which outlawed alcoholic beverages in 1920 and wasn't repealed until 1933. Bonnie & Clyde's two-year full-auto crime spree from 1932 to 1934 didn't help. John Dillinger was a national antihero, too. When the Great Depression took hold in 1929, crime flourished in those desperate times, as did the use of suppressors to poach game out-of-season and from private land. So I'll disagree with you that prior to 1934, most of the NFA violence was committed on movie sets. BTW, the repeal of Prohibition in 1933 left an entire branch of the U.S. government with sitting around nothing to do -- the revenuers who worked for the Prohibition Bureau. The passage the following year of the National Firearms Act gave them jobs again. (When was the last time the U.S. government laid off employees?) So NFA '34 was a win/win for Congress and the Administration. YMMV. There were A LOT of SMG shootings in Miami and other large drug markets in the 80's. Virtually all of the guns were illegally converted open bolt semis and a sprinkling of guns stolen from the police or national guard armories. Which was pretty much the favorite underground source for thugs in the 1930s. Anyone remember Baby Face Nelson's Full Auto .38 Super. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/25/2014 11:15:33 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which was pretty much the favorite underground source for thugs in the 1930s. Anyone remember Baby Face Nelson's Full Auto .38 Super. Yup. Nelson's was one of Hyman Lebman's 1911 FA conversions, IIRC. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/25/2014 11:29:18 PM EDT
[#17]
"In before"............... the new AG File 13s the lawsuit against BATFE
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/25/2014 11:36:00 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"In before"............... the new AG File 13s the lawsuit against BATFE If the defendant ignores and doesn't contest a lawsuit then the plaintiff wins by default, right? That would be the absolute best outcome. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/25/2014 11:46:20 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the defendant ignores and doesn't contest a lawsuit then the plaintiff wins by default, right? That would be the absolute best outcome. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
"In before"............... the new AG File 13s the lawsuit against BATFE If the defendant ignores and doesn't contest a lawsuit then the plaintiff wins by default, right? That would be the absolute best outcome. Generally but a judge doesn't have to grant a default. Beyond that, it would only apply in the districts that were filed in and the decision would be absolutely useless as precedence in any other district. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2014 1:03:01 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: snip. Can't wait to see it all unfold This!  |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2014 5:56:50 AM EDT
[#21]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2014 8:38:14 AM EDT
[#22]
Bump to keep this out of the archives.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2014 8:47:00 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bump to keep this out of the archives. I don't think we'll have a problem with that |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2014 9:28:40 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think we'll have a problem with that Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Bump to keep this out of the archives. I don't think we'll have a problem with that  |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2014 10:09:00 AM EDT
[#25]
In for new info .
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2014 10:14:29 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Generally but a judge doesn't have to grant a default. Beyond that, it would only apply in the districts that were filed in and the decision would be absolutely useless as precedence in any other district. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
"In before"............... the new AG File 13s the lawsuit against BATFE If the defendant ignores and doesn't contest a lawsuit then the plaintiff wins by default, right? That would be the absolute best outcome. Generally but a judge doesn't have to grant a default. Beyond that, it would only apply in the districts that were filed in and the decision would be absolutely useless as precedence in any other district. Well then file similar lawsuits in all the other districts and they'd ignore those too. Click To View Spoiler |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2014 10:48:13 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think he is saying that the vast majority of criminals didn't use them, they high profile criminals were a small percentage of overall crime. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
[Machine guns were very popular among the gangs that organized into crime families as a direct result of Prohibition, which outlawed alcoholic beverages in 1920 and wasn't repealed until 1933. Bonnie & Clyde's two-year full-auto crime spree from 1932 to 1934 didn't help. John Dillinger was a national antihero, too. When the Great Depression took hold in 1929, crime flourished in those desperate times, as did the use of suppressors to poach game out-of-season and from private land. 
You know this from watching movies, right. 99% of the criminals did not have easy access to machine guns. They used pistols, just as most do today and for the very same reasons. The Federal government and the movie industry promoted the idea that automatic weapons and "sawed off shotguns" were a major problem. Each did so for their own reasons. The fact that you still believe it 70 years later demonstrates just how successful the propaganda was at convincing people. wait... you think the gangsters did NOT use Thompsons? You also don't believe Bonnie and Clyde used F/A firearms???? I think he is saying that the vast majority of criminals didn't use them, they high profile criminals were a small percentage of overall crime. This is exactly correct. Hoover's lust for fame created the gangster antihero. He needed Bonnie and Clyde's of the world to be larger than life. He was quite successful. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2014 10:51:13 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just read this statement on a news site and thought it was interesting. Holder in the past year and a half secured criminal guilty pleas from two foreign banks and multibillion-dollar civil settlements with American banks arising from the sale of toxic mortgage-backed securities. Even then, critics noted that no individuals were held accountable. Corporations are an Individual and the top lawyer seems to concur. Probably hashed out already but I can't keep up reading through this thread OTOH, it's pretty common to see resonsible individuals charged when it can be shown (or could be shown) that their decisions / actions led to the act. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2014 10:55:08 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup. Nelson's was one of Hyman Lebman's 1911 FA conversions, IIRC. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Which was pretty much the favorite underground source for thugs in the 1930s. Anyone remember Baby Face Nelson's Full Auto .38 Super. Yup. Nelson's was one of Hyman Lebman's 1911 FA conversions, IIRC. Lebman was the gunsmith to the gangster stars wasn't he? His conversions weren't LEO guns or sitting in a NG armory. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2014 12:25:19 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is exactly correct. Hoover's lust for fame created the gangster antihero. He needed Bonnie and Clyde's of the world to be larger than life. He was quite successful. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: [Machine guns were very popular among the gangs that organized into crime families as a direct result of Prohibition, which outlawed alcoholic beverages in 1920 and wasn't repealed until 1933. Bonnie & Clyde's two-year full-auto crime spree from 1932 to 1934 didn't help. John Dillinger was a national antihero, too. When the Great Depression took hold in 1929, crime flourished in those desperate times, as did the use of suppressors to poach game out-of-season and from private land. You know this from watching movies, right. 99% of the criminals did not have easy access to machine guns. They used pistols, just as most do today and for the very same reasons. The Federal government and the movie industry promoted the idea that automatic weapons and "sawed off shotguns" were a major problem. Each did so for their own reasons. The fact that you still believe it 70 years later demonstrates just how successful the propaganda was at convincing people. wait... you think the gangsters did NOT use Thompsons? You also don't believe Bonnie and Clyde used F/A firearms???? I think he is saying that the vast majority of criminals didn't use them, they high profile criminals were a small percentage of overall crime. This is exactly correct. Hoover's lust for fame created the gangster antihero. He needed Bonnie and Clyde's of the world to be larger than life. He was quite successful. Change that with "obama" and "crisis" and it still fits today. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2014 4:11:29 PM EDT
[#31]
I know it sounds like stalking, because I guess it really is, but I wish there were a way to just see one person's comments. This thread is the perfect use case for stalking NoloContendere.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2014 8:41:29 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know it sounds like stalking, because I guess it really is, but I wish there were a way to just see one person's comments. This thread is the perfect use case for stalking NoloContendere. Don't kid about stalking NOLO. He has many well armed friends. 
We don't always play well with others. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2014 8:48:00 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't kid about stalking NOLO. He has many well armed friends.
We don't always play well with others. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I know it sounds like stalking, because I guess it really is, but I wish there were a way to just see one person's comments. This thread is the perfect use case for stalking NoloContendere. Don't kid about stalking NOLO. He has many well armed friends.
We don't always play well with others. Ha...well his comments are the only ones that really mean anything at this point. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2014 9:47:57 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ha...well his comments are the only ones that really mean anything at this point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know it sounds like stalking, because I guess it really is, but I wish there were a way to just see one person's comments. This thread is the perfect use case for stalking NoloContendere. Don't kid about stalking NOLO. He has many well armed friends.
We don't always play well with others. Ha...well his comments are the only ones that really mean anything at this point. Just use ctrl+F |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/26/2014 10:18:37 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know it sounds like stalking, because I guess it really is, but I wish there were a way to just see one person's comments. This thread is the perfect use case for stalking NoloContendere. '09'er... wait wut? 2009 and 11 posts? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2014 12:02:40 AM EDT
[#36]
It's been busy at his office, with all these Form 1's and 4's coming through since O'Bama was elected.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2014 3:28:33 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ha...well his comments are the only ones that really mean anything at this point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know it sounds like stalking, because I guess it really is, but I wish there were a way to just see one person's comments. This thread is the perfect use case for stalking NoloContendere. Don't kid about stalking NOLO. He has many well armed friends.
We don't always play well with others. Ha...well his comments are the only ones that really mean anything at this point. I know. Like, I wish we could highlight all of Nolo's comments in yellow or light green or something's to make them stand out and faster to locate. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2014 8:45:51 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
'09'er... wait wut? 2009 and 11 posts? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I know it sounds like stalking, because I guess it really is, but I wish there were a way to just see one person's comments. This thread is the perfect use case for stalking NoloContendere. '09'er... wait wut? 2009 and 11 posts? Lurker I guess. I generally find the answers before I even get to point of a post so... yea, very few posts. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2014 8:58:53 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Change that with "obama" and "crisis" and it still fits today.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:[
You know this from watching movies, right. 99% of the criminals did not have easy access to machine guns. They used pistols, just as most do today and for the very same reasons. The Federal government and the movie industry promoted the idea that automatic weapons and "sawed off shotguns" were a major problem. Each did so for their own reasons. The fact that you still believe it 70 years later demonstrates just how successful the propaganda was at convincing people. wait... you think the gangsters did NOT use Thompsons? You also don't believe Bonnie and Clyde used F/A firearms???? I think he is saying that the vast majority of criminals didn't use them, they high profile criminals were a small percentage of overall crime. This is exactly correct. Hoover's lust for fame created the gangster antihero. He needed Bonnie and Clyde's of the world to be larger than life. He was quite successful. Change that with "obama" and "crisis" and it still fits today.
One hand washes the other, as the old saying goes. The "entertainment industry" continues its role as a major source of propaganda as well. Of course, I'm sure that there are some people who think the TV show "Madam Secretary" has nothing to do with promoting any potential candidate for President. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2014 2:02:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Are people blaming Hoover's ambition for the rise of the mob?
Fuckig hell. Can we get back on topic please? Criminals used machine guns then and through the 90's regularly. Every few years, the Feds find a stash of mob SMG's. The ATF rulin on open bolt guns probably had a large effect on this too as well as crackdown on constructive intent at gun shows with table A selling open bolt parts kits for receivers at table B and silencer tubes at table C with baffles at table D |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2014 8:44:00 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The sad/ironic thing is, the only reason we have the firearms laws we have today is because of the unintended consequences of prohibition. No. The majority of laws come from the Sullivan Act in 1911 writtin by "Big" Tim Sullivan, who is the basis of the Butcher from Gangs of New York. At the time of the law being written he was suffering from Syphilic Neurosis and two years later would be so out of his mind he would spend the rest of his life in a sanatorium. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2014 8:50:54 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think y'all will be pleased. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Again I'll ask what this means for nolo's case. Especially if he is only out of his throne when BO "finds a replacement" nothing.
I think y'all will be pleased. You're doing God's work.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2014 9:05:36 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. The majority of laws come from the Sullivan Act in 1911 writtin by "Big" Tim Sullivan, who is the basis of the Butcher from Gangs of New York. At the time of the law being written he was suffering from Syphilic Neurosis and two years later would be so out of his mind he would spend the rest of his life in a sanatorium. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The sad/ironic thing is, the only reason we have the firearms laws we have today is because of the unintended consequences of prohibition. No. The majority of laws come from the Sullivan Act in 1911 writtin by "Big" Tim Sullivan, who is the basis of the Butcher from Gangs of New York. At the time of the law being written he was suffering from Syphilic Neurosis and two years later would be so out of his mind he would spend the rest of his life in a sanatorium. where did you read that? From what I can find the butcher was william poole |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2014 9:16:00 PM EDT
[#44]
I read that some forms got approved. I've read that the ATF asked for them back. I've read that there are lawyers willing to take the case for those that were approved and asked to return...what I don't know and don't want to sift through 77 pages to find out is:
assuming this ends up working and the ATF says "good to go", what kind of pricing would a buyer be expected to pay for these post '86 machine guns? I'm guessing the $12k+ prices will no longer apply. Ex. A transferable "X" that today costs $12k but a post May dealer sample is well under $1k. Will that happen if this method ends up working? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2014 9:47:49 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
where did you read that? From what I can find the butcher was william poole Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The sad/ironic thing is, the only reason we have the firearms laws we have today is because of the unintended consequences of prohibition. No. The majority of laws come from the Sullivan Act in 1911 writtin by "Big" Tim Sullivan, who is the basis of the Butcher from Gangs of New York. At the time of the law being written he was suffering from Syphilic Neurosis and two years later would be so out of his mind he would spend the rest of his life in a sanatorium. where did you read that? From what I can find the butcher was william poole Dammit wrong criminal/. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2014 9:57:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I read that some forms got approved. I've read that the ATF asked for them back. I've read that there are lawyers willing to take the case for those that were approved and asked to return...what I don't know and don't want to sift through 77 pages to find out is: assuming this ends up working and the ATF says "good to go", what kind of pricing would a buyer be expected to pay for these post '86 machine guns? I'm guessing the $12k+ prices will no longer apply. Ex. A transferable "X" that today costs $12k but a post May dealer sample is well under $1k. Will that happen if this method ends up working? $200 stamp for a $50 stripped lower. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2014 10:08:57 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yes but how many people has alcohol killed? None. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In 1932, when the National Firearms Act was first proposed and eventually in 1934 was signed into law, the St. Valentine's Day Massacre was still fresh in the public awareness. Machine guns were very popular among the gangs that organized into crime families as a direct result of Prohibition, which outlawed alcoholic beverages in 1920 and wasn't repealed until 1933. Bonnie & Clyde's two-year full-auto crime spree from 1932 to 1934 didn't help. John Dillinger was a national antihero, too. When the Great Depression took hold in 1929, crime flourished in those desperate times, as did the use of suppressors to poach game out-of-season and from private land. So I'll disagree with you that prior to 1934, most of the NFA violence was committed on movie sets. BTW, the repeal of Prohibition in 1933 left an entire branch of the U.S. government with sitting around nothing to do -- the revenuers who worked for the Prohibition Bureau. The passage the following year of the National Firearms Act gave them jobs again. (When was the last time the U.S. government laid off employees?) So NFA '34 was a win/win for Congress and the Administration. YMMV. Knowing history is a valuable skill. The NFA should be dismissed out of hand on that basis alone.
I use that same example all the time. I normally get a look in return. yes but how many people has alcohol killed? None. The fuck you say? Alcohol kills daily. Drunks drivers kill, drunks die a slow and painful suicide cirrhosis of the liver? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2014 10:38:49 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
$200 stamp for a $50 stripped lower. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I read that some forms got approved. I've read that the ATF asked for them back. I've read that there are lawyers willing to take the case for those that were approved and asked to return...what I don't know and don't want to sift through 77 pages to find out is: assuming this ends up working and the ATF says "good to go", what kind of pricing would a buyer be expected to pay for these post '86 machine guns? I'm guessing the $12k+ prices will no longer apply. Ex. A transferable "X" that today costs $12k but a post May dealer sample is well under $1k. Will that happen if this method ends up working? $200 stamp for a $50 stripped lower. Probably something like a panic, where the rush to buy them causes a greater demand than the current supply, causing prices to go up, then come back down as the supply catches up. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2014 11:20:50 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably something like a panic, where the rush to buy them causes a greater demand than the current supply, causing prices to go up, then come back down as the supply catches up. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I read that some forms got approved. I've read that the ATF asked for them back. I've read that there are lawyers willing to take the case for those that were approved and asked to return...what I don't know and don't want to sift through 77 pages to find out is: assuming this ends up working and the ATF says "good to go", what kind of pricing would a buyer be expected to pay for these post '86 machine guns? I'm guessing the $12k+ prices will no longer apply. Ex. A transferable "X" that today costs $12k but a post May dealer sample is well under $1k. Will that happen if this method ends up working? $200 stamp for a $50 stripped lower. Probably something like a panic, where the rush to buy them causes a greater demand than the current supply, causing prices to go up, then come back down as the supply catches up. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2014 11:33:55 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I doubt prices will go up on lowers and ARs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I read that some forms got approved. I've read that the ATF asked for them back. I've read that there are lawyers willing to take the case for those that were approved and asked to return...what I don't know and don't want to sift through 77 pages to find out is: assuming this ends up working and the ATF says "good to go", what kind of pricing would a buyer be expected to pay for these post '86 machine guns? I'm guessing the $12k+ prices will no longer apply. Ex. A transferable "X" that today costs $12k but a post May dealer sample is well under $1k. Will that happen if this method ends up working? $200 stamp for a $50 stripped lower. Probably something like a panic, where the rush to buy them causes a greater demand than the current supply, causing prices to go up, then come back down as the supply catches up. M-16 trigger group parts might get scarce for a while. I could see a short term hiccup in the supply of lowers, but probably not for too long. Other, less modular, full-autos would probably be more of a problem. Plenty of sources for AR stripped lowers, and some more machine work results in a full-auto lower. But what about other firearms? |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
.jpg)
