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Posted: 9/18/2014 11:08:10 AM EDT
[#1]
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Some are busy deleting emails and scratching hard drives. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I wonder what the NFA examiners are thinking as they are apparently seeing more and more F1 machineguns coming at them......  I would imagine something along the lines of "oh shit.....this cant be good"  Some are probably annoyed. Denying these forms is extra work. Some are probably (quietly) rooting for us. Some are probably wondering if they will end up having to testify and what that will entail, and what effect it will have on their jobs and careers. It wouldn't surprise me at this point if some are actively reading and/or posting in this thread (and I do not mean xm15). Some are busy deleting emails and scratching hard drives. "Hello, IRS? How do I get rid of info as successfully as you?" |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 11:14:04 AM EDT
[#2]
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If you are in Texas and your Form 1 was denied (or approved), contact Ted Cruz and his office will make an inquiry. Sweet. Hey Undefined, do you have any connections to one of our representatives that may do the same? |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 11:15:54 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sweet. Hey Undefined, do you have any connections to one of our representatives that may do the same? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you are in Texas and your Form 1 was denied (or approved), contact Ted Cruz and his office will make an inquiry. Sweet. Hey Undefined, do you have any connections to one of our representatives that may do the same? I am no longer on speaking terms with my representative since he walked out of the conference room and refused to hear testimony from the families of those killed on 9/11 in Benghazi. 
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Posted: 9/18/2014 11:34:18 AM EDT
[#4]
OST.
I should have posted 30 pages ago. This is a once in a lifetime chance to see history live I don't know what the future holds, but I am (barely) patiently waiting for news, updates, and the next step. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:02:15 PM EDT
[#5]
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I think most of us on the pessimistic side tend to agree, but we also like to remain somewhat grounded. The odds of this changing are long indeed, despite what all of us might want. But it seems as though if any of us says anything other than " 'Merica! Freedom! We're gonna knock those libs for a loop! Fuck 'em!" we're branded a complete defeatist. And it's worse if you actually have machine guns...then you're branded an elitist top 1%er that doesn't want to see change, hates freedom, and wants to keep the average citizen down. I really don't care. Im a total pessimist about this campaign. I support it, but I just simply don't see anything changing despite everyone's gung-ho attitude. You read enough legal decisions like I have and you come to the conclusion that most of the time, the government gets what it wants. So be noble all you want. Wave the flag, scream "shall not be infringed," and cite the Constitution. And if you must, go ahead and call me a defeatist as well. I think of myself more as a realist. And the reality I see is that there is a less than 5% chance that we get what we want, no matter how much money or time you throw at it. 5% is pretty optimistic! I'm excited about this and want to support it, but I don't even think it's that high! I do agree that there are too many people counting their chickens before they hatch. Obviously we would all form 1 every rifle (even bolt action) we had, but that's like talking about what we are going to do with out lottery winnings before we buy a ticket. I do wonder if this will impact MG prices if it gets to court, with speculation that 922(o) might be overturned. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:12:32 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you are in Texas and your Form 1 was denied (or approved), contact Ted Cruz and his office will make an inquiry. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:16:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any more details on this? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you are in Texas and your Form 1 was denied (or approved), contact Ted Cruz and his office will make an inquiry. I'm curious as well. Is Cruz's office getting involved, or was whomper just suggesting it since Cruz is (usually, sometimes, often, take your pick) seen as being on our side? |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:20:06 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm curious as well. Is Cruz's office getting involved, or was whomper just suggesting it since Cruz is (usually, sometimes, often, take your pick) seen as being on our side? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you are in Texas and your Form 1 was denied (or approved), contact Ted Cruz and his office will make an inquiry. I'm curious as well. Is Cruz's office getting involved, or was whomper just suggesting it since Cruz is (usually, sometimes, often, take your pick) seen as being on our side? I contacted Cruz's office a long time ago about the 41p blowup. All I got was a chain email telling me about how he is standing up for gunowners post Sandy Hook and would I like to donate to his cause. Kinda left a bad taste in my mouth. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:21:01 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any more details on this? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you are in Texas and your Form 1 was denied (or approved), contact Ted Cruz and his office will make an inquiry. I talked to a lady this morning that handles ATF issues for constituents. While I have not applied yet, she said that they will make an inquiry when I do get denied. I've found his office to be the most responsive out of all my reps. And hey are very familiar with DOJ shenanigans. ETA: ATTN: Brenda Davis - DOJ/BATFE |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:23:14 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I do wonder if this will impact MG prices if it gets to court, with speculation that 922(o) might be overturned. I was wondering along the same lines this morning, sort of. My thought is, say this happens and MGs become more prevalent, weather through trusts being allowed to file, or by dissolution of all NFA laws, what will become of ammo? I could see another shortage like we've seen recently happening, but instead of only adding another shift to try to keep up, perhaps new ammo factories will open up if the demand for ammo rises and keeps at a steadily higher level. And just maybe some more common MG food such as 30-06, .308, and really stretching .50, would come down in price due to increased demand.... One can hope no? |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:23:17 PM EDT
[#11]
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With all due respect, this is America. It's a place where the people don't give a shit what their chances of winning are. When we see an opportunity we take it. You want to waive the flag before the battle starts, then by all means have at it, but don't be surprised when you are standing alone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think most of us on the pessimistic side tend to agree, but we also like to remain somewhat grounded. The odds of this changing are long indeed, despite what all of us might want. But it seems as though if any of us says anything other than " 'Merica! Freedom! We're gonna knock those libs for a loop! Fuck 'em!" we're branded a complete defeatist. And it's worse if you actually have machine guns...then you're branded an elitist top 1%er that doesn't want to see change, hates freedom, and wants to keep the average citizen down. I really don't care. Im a total pessimist about this campaign. I support it, but I just simply don't see anything changing despite everyone's gung-ho attitude. You read enough legal decisions like I have and you come to the conclusion that most of the time, the government gets what it wants. So be noble all you want. Wave the flag, scream "shall not be infringed," and cite the Constitution. And if you must, go ahead and call me a defeatist as well. I think of myself more as a realist. And the reality I see is that there is a less than 5% chance that we get what we want, no matter how much money or time you throw at it. With all due respect, this is America. It's a place where the people don't give a shit what their chances of winning are. When we see an opportunity we take it. You want to waive the flag before the battle starts, then by all means have at it, but don't be surprised when you are standing alone. Except the opportunity has to be weighed against all the possible outcomes, based on likelihood of each, etc. Perhaps my 5% number was too generous. Let's say there's a 1% chance this can be pulled off. That means 99% of the time we fail. But not only that, we risk what we already have. A cheap $200 tax in the grand scheme of things, access to all these weapons (there hasn't been an outright ban on transfers), trusts are still legit NFA entities, etc. If you poke he bear, he might give in and give up his cave so you have shelter (your big prize). It's far more likely the bear turns around and rips your face off. And then while you're lying there seconds from death, he shits on your chest for the hell of it. So 1) we lose a fight we are almost guaranteed to lose, 2) throw the spotlight on the NFA, 3) 41p is enacted from internal pressure, 4) congress acts and raises the tax on NFA items because it's a cheap compromise to most. And then we'll all be bitching in a few years about how we can't use trusts anymore to circumvent the CLEO stuff, that the new $1000 NFA tax has wiped out the suppressor and SBR markets, and machine guns remain the same inflated prices or can no longer be transferred. All so that we can poke a bear for our 1% chance he'll give up the prize. Pessimistic/defeatist me wonders if it's worth it. Now wave your flags and scream freedom and respond about how this is America and we fight no matter the odds, etc. You'll all be bitching if this backfires. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:24:08 PM EDT
[#12]
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I talked to a lady this morning that handles ATF issues for constituents. While I have not applied yet, she said that they will make an inquiry when I do get denied. I've found his office to be the most responsive out of all my reps. And hey are very familiar with DOJ shenanigans. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you are in Texas and your Form 1 was denied (or approved), contact Ted Cruz and his office will make an inquiry. I talked to a lady this morning that handles ATF issues for constituents. While I have not applied yet, she said that they will make an inquiry when I do get denied. I've found his office to be the most responsive out of all my reps. And hey are very familiar with DOJ shenanigans. Interesting. I doubt it will go anywhere.... Cruz has ambition to become president, and fighting the NFA costs political capital and raises little, except among people who would likely already vote for him in both the primary and the general election. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:30:38 PM EDT
[#13]
#2 in the works
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:30:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting. I doubt it will go anywhere.... Cruz has ambition to become president, and fighting the NFA costs political capital and raises little, except among people who would likely already vote for him in both the primary and the general election. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you are in Texas and your Form 1 was denied (or approved), contact Ted Cruz and his office will make an inquiry. I talked to a lady this morning that handles ATF issues for constituents. While I have not applied yet, she said that they will make an inquiry when I do get denied. I've found his office to be the most responsive out of all my reps. And hey are very familiar with DOJ shenanigans. Interesting. I doubt it will go anywhere.... Cruz has ambition to become president, and fighting the NFA costs political capital and raises little, except among people who would likely already vote for him in both the primary and the general election. Agreed. But we all know he's not a fan of Holder's DOJ. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:31:05 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except the opportunity has to be weighed against all the possible outcomes, based on likelihood of each, etc. Perhaps my 5% number was too generous. Let's say there's a 1% chance this can be pulled off. That means 99% of the time we fail. But not only that, we risk what we already have. A cheap $200 tax in the grand scheme of things, access to all these weapons (there hasn't been an outright ban on transfers), trusts are still legit NFA entities, etc. If you poke he bear, he might give in and give up his cave so you have shelter (your big prize). It's far more likely the bear turns around and rips your face off. And then while you're lying there seconds from death, he shits on your chest for the hell of it. So 1) we lose a fight we are almost guaranteed to lose, 2) throw the spotlight on the NFA, 3) 41p is enacted from internal pressure, 4) congress acts and raises the tax on NFA items because it's a cheap compromise to most. And then we'll all be bitching in a few years about how we can't use trusts anymore to circumvent the CLEO stuff, that the new $1000 NFA tax has wiped out the suppressor and SBR markets, and machine guns remain the same inflated prices or can no longer be transferred. All so that we can poke a bear for our 1% chance he'll give up the prize. Pessimistic/defeatist me wonders if it's worth it. Now wave your flags and scream freedom and respond about how this is America and we fight no matter the odds, etc. You'll all be bitching if this backfires. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think most of us on the pessimistic side tend to agree, but we also like to remain somewhat grounded. The odds of this changing are long indeed, despite what all of us might want. But it seems as though if any of us says anything other than " 'Merica! Freedom! We're gonna knock those libs for a loop! Fuck 'em!" we're branded a complete defeatist. And it's worse if you actually have machine guns...then you're branded an elitist top 1%er that doesn't want to see change, hates freedom, and wants to keep the average citizen down. I really don't care. Im a total pessimist about this campaign. I support it, but I just simply don't see anything changing despite everyone's gung-ho attitude. You read enough legal decisions like I have and you come to the conclusion that most of the time, the government gets what it wants. So be noble all you want. Wave the flag, scream "shall not be infringed," and cite the Constitution. And if you must, go ahead and call me a defeatist as well. I think of myself more as a realist. And the reality I see is that there is a less than 5% chance that we get what we want, no matter how much money or time you throw at it. With all due respect, this is America. It's a place where the people don't give a shit what their chances of winning are. When we see an opportunity we take it. You want to waive the flag before the battle starts, then by all means have at it, but don't be surprised when you are standing alone. Except the opportunity has to be weighed against all the possible outcomes, based on likelihood of each, etc. Perhaps my 5% number was too generous. Let's say there's a 1% chance this can be pulled off. That means 99% of the time we fail. But not only that, we risk what we already have. A cheap $200 tax in the grand scheme of things, access to all these weapons (there hasn't been an outright ban on transfers), trusts are still legit NFA entities, etc. If you poke he bear, he might give in and give up his cave so you have shelter (your big prize). It's far more likely the bear turns around and rips your face off. And then while you're lying there seconds from death, he shits on your chest for the hell of it. So 1) we lose a fight we are almost guaranteed to lose, 2) throw the spotlight on the NFA, 3) 41p is enacted from internal pressure, 4) congress acts and raises the tax on NFA items because it's a cheap compromise to most. And then we'll all be bitching in a few years about how we can't use trusts anymore to circumvent the CLEO stuff, that the new $1000 NFA tax has wiped out the suppressor and SBR markets, and machine guns remain the same inflated prices or can no longer be transferred. All so that we can poke a bear for our 1% chance he'll give up the prize. Pessimistic/defeatist me wonders if it's worth it. Now wave your flags and scream freedom and respond about how this is America and we fight no matter the odds, etc. You'll all be bitching if this backfires. I bet you are a real riot at parties. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:36:57 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bet you are a real riot at parties. Haha 
Look, I don't like raining on the parade. Consider arguing the other side as part of my job, nothing personal |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:37:29 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except the opportunity has to be weighed against all the possible outcomes, based on likelihood of each, etc. Perhaps my 5% number was too generous. Let's say there's a 1% chance this can be pulled off. That means 99% of the time we fail. But not only that, we risk what we already have. A cheap $200 tax in the grand scheme of things, access to all these weapons (there hasn't been an outright ban on transfers), trusts are still legit NFA entities, etc. If you poke he bear, he might give in and give up his cave so you have shelter (your big prize). It's far more likely the bear turns around and rips your face off. And then while you're lying there seconds from death, he shits on your chest for the hell of it. So 1) we lose a fight we are almost guaranteed to lose, 2) throw the spotlight on the NFA, 3) 41p is enacted from internal pressure, 4) congress acts and raises the tax on NFA items because it's a cheap compromise to most. And then we'll all be bitching in a few years about how we can't use trusts anymore to circumvent the CLEO stuff, that the new $1000 NFA tax has wiped out the suppressor and SBR markets, and machine guns remain the same inflated prices or can no longer be transferred. All so that we can poke a bear for our 1% chance he'll give up the prize. Pessimistic/defeatist me wonders if it's worth it. Now wave your flags and scream freedom and respond about how this is America and we fight no matter the odds, etc. You'll all be bitching if this backfires. Rational position and question, in my opinion. But what happens if we don't make our move - and they slam 41p down our throats anyway? What if they say we can use trusts but every trustee must have a background check AND there must be CLEO signoff? Do you think the ATF will back off of that if we agree that "no one needs to know about this little indiscretion?" How much bitching will there be about "if only?" I admit I believe in doing what I believe to be the right thing regardless of cost or odds of victory. It's not chest-thumping, it's my nature and I recognize that it's not necessarily the always best choice or the natural course for everyone. In other words, I recognize my bias. But you are talking about attempting to negotiate with - frankly, appease - an entity that has shown us no mercy, done us no favors and is already planning to screw us again. What indicators do you have that they would change any of that simply because we chose not to exploit a temporary window of minor vulnerability? If we're going to be crushed anyway, why not at least try to leave a scar so they remember that we fought? |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:39:59 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Haha Look, I don't like raining on the parade. Consider arguing the other side as part of my job, nothing personal Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I bet you are a real riot at parties. Haha Look, I don't like raining on the parade. Consider arguing the other side as part of my job, nothing personal  |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:41:39 PM EDT
[#19]
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#2 in the works I hope you mean "Client #2" or "Lawsuit #2", as opposed to turning this thread into the one thing Arfcom prohibits more than BATFE does machine guns. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:46:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hope you mean "Client #2" or "Lawsuit #2", as opposed to turning this thread into the one thing Arfcom prohibits more than BATFE does machine guns. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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#2 in the works I hope you mean "Client #2" or "Lawsuit #2", as opposed to turning this thread into the one thing Arfcom prohibits more than BATFE does machine guns. lol 
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:48:35 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except the opportunity has to be weighed against all the possible outcomes, based on likelihood of each, etc. Perhaps my 5% number was too generous. Let's say there's a 1% chance this can be pulled off. That means 99% of the time we fail. But not only that, we risk what we already have. A cheap $200 tax in the grand scheme of things, access to all these weapons (there hasn't been an outright ban on transfers), trusts are still legit NFA entities, etc. If you poke he bear, he might give in and give up his cave so you have shelter (your big prize). It's far more likely the bear turns around and rips your face off. And then while you're lying there seconds from death, he shits on your chest for the hell of it. So 1) we lose a fight we are almost guaranteed to lose, 2) throw the spotlight on the NFA, 3) 41p is enacted from internal pressure, 4) congress acts and raises the tax on NFA items because it's a cheap compromise to most. And then we'll all be bitching in a few years about how we can't use trusts anymore to circumvent the CLEO stuff, that the new $1000 NFA tax has wiped out the suppressor and SBR markets, and machine guns remain the same inflated prices or can no longer be transferred. All so that we can poke a bear for our 1% chance he'll give up the prize. Pessimistic/defeatist me wonders if it's worth it. Now wave your flags and scream freedom and respond about how this is America and we fight no matter the odds, etc. You'll all be bitching if this backfires. Two things jump out at me about your concerns. First, you neglect to mention the case where we do nothing - at which point we are still in a cave with a dangerous bear, which may wake up and go bezerk on our ass at any moment. That is no way for a free people to live. Second, we are the bear. We outnumber them. We support them monetarily through our taxes. We are the ones who are sleeping, while a trespasser tiptoes through our home and steals what is rightfully ours. In the recent past we've had Heller and Macdonald. The Second has been recognized as an individual right, and it has been incorporated against the several states. We're in the process of overturning "may issue", and I expect to see that happen in the next 2-3 years. We are the bear, and we are stirring from our long slumber. The trespasser who seeks to deprive us of what is ours had best be wary; now is his opportunity to quietly back away. The bear will awaken at some point, and my sincere hope is that it's soon enough that it need not maul anyone when it does. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:12:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except the opportunity has to be weighed against all the possible outcomes, based on likelihood of each, etc. Perhaps my 5% number was too generous. Let's say there's a 1% chance this can be pulled off. That means 99% of the time we fail. But not only that, we risk what we already have. A cheap $200 tax in the grand scheme of things, access to all these weapons (there hasn't been an outright ban on transfers), trusts are still legit NFA entities, etc. If you poke he bear, he might give in and give up his cave so you have shelter (your big prize). It's far more likely the bear turns around and rips your face off. And then while you're lying there seconds from death, he shits on your chest for the hell of it. So 1) we lose a fight we are almost guaranteed to lose, 2) throw the spotlight on the NFA, 3) 41p is enacted from internal pressure, 4) congress acts and raises the tax on NFA items because it's a cheap compromise to most. And then we'll all be bitching in a few years about how we can't use trusts anymore to circumvent the CLEO stuff, that the new $1000 NFA tax has wiped out the suppressor and SBR markets, and machine guns remain the same inflated prices or can no longer be transferred. All so that we can poke a bear for our 1% chance he'll give up the prize. Pessimistic/defeatist me wonders if it's worth it. Now wave your flags and scream freedom and respond about how this is America and we fight no matter the odds, etc. You'll all be bitching if this backfires. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think most of us on the pessimistic side tend to agree, but we also like to remain somewhat grounded. The odds of this changing are long indeed, despite what all of us might want. But it seems as though if any of us says anything other than " 'Merica! Freedom! We're gonna knock those libs for a loop! Fuck 'em!" we're branded a complete defeatist. And it's worse if you actually have machine guns...then you're branded an elitist top 1%er that doesn't want to see change, hates freedom, and wants to keep the average citizen down. I really don't care. Im a total pessimist about this campaign. I support it, but I just simply don't see anything changing despite everyone's gung-ho attitude. You read enough legal decisions like I have and you come to the conclusion that most of the time, the government gets what it wants. So be noble all you want. Wave the flag, scream "shall not be infringed," and cite the Constitution. And if you must, go ahead and call me a defeatist as well. I think of myself more as a realist. And the reality I see is that there is a less than 5% chance that we get what we want, no matter how much money or time you throw at it. With all due respect, this is America. It's a place where the people don't give a shit what their chances of winning are. When we see an opportunity we take it. You want to waive the flag before the battle starts, then by all means have at it, but don't be surprised when you are standing alone. Except the opportunity has to be weighed against all the possible outcomes, based on likelihood of each, etc. Perhaps my 5% number was too generous. Let's say there's a 1% chance this can be pulled off. That means 99% of the time we fail. But not only that, we risk what we already have. A cheap $200 tax in the grand scheme of things, access to all these weapons (there hasn't been an outright ban on transfers), trusts are still legit NFA entities, etc. If you poke he bear, he might give in and give up his cave so you have shelter (your big prize). It's far more likely the bear turns around and rips your face off. And then while you're lying there seconds from death, he shits on your chest for the hell of it. So 1) we lose a fight we are almost guaranteed to lose, 2) throw the spotlight on the NFA, 3) 41p is enacted from internal pressure, 4) congress acts and raises the tax on NFA items because it's a cheap compromise to most. And then we'll all be bitching in a few years about how we can't use trusts anymore to circumvent the CLEO stuff, that the new $1000 NFA tax has wiped out the suppressor and SBR markets, and machine guns remain the same inflated prices or can no longer be transferred. All so that we can poke a bear for our 1% chance he'll give up the prize. Pessimistic/defeatist me wonders if it's worth it. Now wave your flags and scream freedom and respond about how this is America and we fight no matter the odds, etc. You'll all be bitching if this backfires. Your position assumes the status quo will always remain, and that the bear will not come out of it's cave looking to rape us because we happen to be there, and he's horny from sleeping all winter. It will not. The people who oppose the 2nd Amendment have never stopped. They've taken breaks and horded political capital when it was pointless to spend, and we're currently in one of those periods, but they've never yielded. We can't either. It's the nature of human society to forever be in transition of what is or is not acceptable. If we are not moving forward, we most assuredly are moving backward. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:18:50 PM EDT
[#23]
Infringement on gun rights is like infringement on trademark. We must fight it. Every time. Every place it happens. New infringement and old alike.
There will never be a compromise that is acceptable to both sides. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:21:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hope you mean "Client #2" or "Lawsuit #2", as opposed to turning this thread into the one thing Arfcom prohibits more than BATFE does machine guns. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
#2 in the works I hope you mean "Client #2" or "Lawsuit #2", as opposed to turning this thread into the one thing Arfcom prohibits more than BATFE does machine guns. Lawsuit. 
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:23:47 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lawsuit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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#2 in the works I hope you mean "Client #2" or "Lawsuit #2", as opposed to turning this thread into the one thing Arfcom prohibits more than BATFE does machine guns. Lawsuit. Without giving too much away... Are either of them filed yet? Same legal strategy / argument for each or different? Same status/class of plaintiff? |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:23:52 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lawsuit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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#2 in the works I hope you mean "Client #2" or "Lawsuit #2", as opposed to turning this thread into the one thing Arfcom prohibits more than BATFE does machine guns. Lawsuit.    
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:34:49 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lawsuit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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#2 in the works I hope you mean "Client #2" or "Lawsuit #2", as opposed to turning this thread into the one thing Arfcom prohibits more than BATFE does machine guns. Lawsuit. Oh, good. I was afraid that maybe you'd had a really rough night and ate too much Taco Bell or something...
On a serious note, thank you for your time and efforts in all of this! |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:01:44 PM EDT
[#28]
I will be sending in a Form1 on Tuesday... and here is the opposite of what I would usually ask: How quickly can I expect to get denied?
I'm torn between sending in the 'old' version of the Form1 by mail to have a paper trail (postmarks, tangible documents and cancelled check) and doing the E-file - which uses the "suddenly revised" Form1 which will leave me with an email and a credit card receipt. My biggest concern is that the new E-file form1 has a change which may be used as a defense against the future denials. I'm not sure what they have up their sleeve but the timing stinks like rotten fish. BUT - if I send it via mail/ FedEx... I risk them suspending all form1 trust submissions while it is enroute. Would it be considered "submitted" when the check is cashed? My desire at this point is to have the ability to be included in a class, should it ever reach that level of litigation. I know this is clear as mud... but if you can follow me - I'd like to hear some suggestions. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:09:02 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
#2 in the works Does this translate to "shit is in the works?" Or a second something is happening? |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:16:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lawsuit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: #2 in the works I hope you mean "Client #2" or "Lawsuit #2", as opposed to turning this thread into the one thing Arfcom prohibits more than BATFE does machine guns. Lawsuit. These go anywhere and we'll put a word in to the Vatican to have you Sainted. Not even joking. Nolo, patron Saint of Full Auto Happiness. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:20:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Disapproved
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:20:17 PM EDT
[#32]
Woah, I better be careful or that double tap could be classified as a MG
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:26:35 PM EDT
[#33]
Update added to OP:
According to NoloContendere, at least 2 lawsuits are in the works already. Keep your heads high everyone, the ball is rolling. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:28:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Update added to OP: According to NoloContendere, at least 2 lawsuits have been filed already. Keep your heads high everyone, the ball is rolling. Have they actually been filed? <---- Not in a position to search on PACER at the moment. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:31:24 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have they actually been filed? <---- Not in a position to search on PACER at the moment. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Update added to OP: According to NoloContendere, at least 2 lawsuits have been filed already. Keep your heads high everyone, the ball is rolling. Have they actually been filed? <---- Not in a position to search on PACER at the moment. My bust, changed the wording to "in the works" My reading comprehension is broken today 
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:31:34 PM EDT
[#36]
Double tap
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:33:41 PM EDT
[#37]
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I contacted Cruz's office a long time ago about the 41p blowup. All I got was a chain email telling me about how he is standing up for gunowners post Sandy Hook and would I like to donate to his cause. Kinda left a bad taste in my mouth. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you are in Texas and your Form 1 was denied (or approved), contact Ted Cruz and his office will make an inquiry. I'm curious as well. Is Cruz's office getting involved, or was whomper just suggesting it since Cruz is (usually, sometimes, often, take your pick) seen as being on our side? I contacted Cruz's office a long time ago about the 41p blowup. All I got was a chain email telling me about how he is standing up for gunowners post Sandy Hook and would I like to donate to his cause. Kinda left a bad taste in my mouth. You know, the arfcom membership is a wide and deep pool of pretty much every profession there is. Surely we have among our ranks at least ONE person who can run and win a campaign for office, either Senate or House. And once in, can advance our causes, up to and including inserting favorable riders into bills (especially the bills nobody reads before they pass!). Maybe in a state like Arizona, with a senile old bastard like McCain, who has been too long suckling at Obama's teat. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:36:57 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lawsuit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: #2 in the works I hope you mean "Client #2" or "Lawsuit #2", as opposed to turning this thread into the one thing Arfcom prohibits more than BATFE does machine guns. Lawsuit. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:37:22 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know, the arfcom membership is a wide and deep pool of pretty much every profession there is. Surely we have among our ranks at least ONE person who can run and win a campaign for office, either Senate or House. And once in, can advance our causes, up to and including inserting favorable riders into bills (especially the bills nobody reads before they pass!). Maybe in a state like Arizona, with a senile old bastard like McCain, who has been too long suckling at Obama's teat. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Quoted:
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If you are in Texas and your Form 1 was denied (or approved), contact Ted Cruz and his office will make an inquiry. I'm curious as well. Is Cruz's office getting involved, or was whomper just suggesting it since Cruz is (usually, sometimes, often, take your pick) seen as being on our side? I contacted Cruz's office a long time ago about the 41p blowup. All I got was a chain email telling me about how he is standing up for gunowners post Sandy Hook and would I like to donate to his cause. Kinda left a bad taste in my mouth. You know, the arfcom membership is a wide and deep pool of pretty much every profession there is. Surely we have among our ranks at least ONE person who can run and win a campaign for office, either Senate or House. And once in, can advance our causes, up to and including inserting favorable riders into bills (especially the bills nobody reads before they pass!). Maybe in a state like Arizona, with a senile old bastard like McCain, who has been too long suckling at Obama's teat. All we need is a little "922 (o) is repealed the date this takes effect" plugged deep into some legislation that "must be passed". I'm surprised that not one republican has tried it with something like the ACA or the government shutdown. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:44:13 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All we need is a little "922 (o) is repealed the date this takes effect" plugged deep into some legislation that "must be passed". I'm surprised that not one republican has tried it with something like the ACA or the government shutdown. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You know, the arfcom membership is a wide and deep pool of pretty much every profession there is. Surely we have among our ranks at least ONE person who can run and win a campaign for office, either Senate or House. And once in, can advance our causes, up to and including inserting favorable riders into bills (especially the bills nobody reads before they pass!). Maybe in a state like Arizona, with a senile old bastard like McCain, who has been too long suckling at Obama's teat. All we need is a little "922 (o) is repealed the date this takes effect" plugged deep into some legislation that "must be passed". I'm surprised that not one republican has tried it with something like the ACA or the government shutdown. Me too, that would have been the perfect time. NFA probably wasn't/isn't on the radar of even Tea Party congressmen. I think it's going to take us either converting one, or better yet getting one of our own into office. Nolo seems like a pretty good candidate. Wonder how the political landscape looks in Mississippi, and if there are any vulnerable incumbents there.
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:45:48 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All we need is a little "922 (o) is repealed the date this takes effect" plugged deep into some legislation that "must be passed". I'm surprised that not one republican has tried it with something like the ACA or the government shutdown. If you're going for the sneak attack, why not hit all of 922 with a hammer? |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:46:25 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Me too, that would have been the perfect time. NFA probably wasn't/isn't on the radar of even Tea Party congressmen. I think it's going to take us either converting one, or better yet getting one of our own into office. Nolo seems like a pretty good candidate. Wonder how the political landscape looks in Mississippi, and if there are any vulnerable incumbents there.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All we need is a little "922 (o) is repealed the date this takes effect" plugged deep into some legislation that "must be passed". I'm surprised that not one republican has tried it with something like the ACA or the government shutdown. Me too, that would have been the perfect time. NFA probably wasn't/isn't on the radar of even Tea Party congressmen. I think it's going to take us either converting one, or better yet getting one of our own into office. Nolo seems like a pretty good candidate. Wonder how the political landscape looks in Mississippi, and if there are any vulnerable incumbents there.
I second this notion. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:48:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you're going for the sneak attack, why not hit all of 922 with a hammer? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All we need is a little "922 (o) is repealed the date this takes effect" plugged deep into some legislation that "must be passed". I'm surprised that not one republican has tried it with something like the ACA or the government shutdown. If you're going for the sneak attack, why not hit all of 922 with a hammer? True, that's why I'm not a lawyer or politician
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:50:11 PM EDT
[#44]
If you were going to do multiple paper form 1s, would you send them all on the same day or space them out a week at a time?
Just, uh, out of curiousity. A friend of mine wants to know. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:51:32 PM EDT
[#45]
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All we need is a little "922 (o) is repealed the date this takes effect" plugged deep into some legislation that "must be passed". I'm surprised that not one republican has tried it with something like the ACA or the government shutdown. If you're going for the sneak attack, why not hit all of 922 with a hammer? True, that's why I'm not a lawyer or politician
If any politician put that into legislation deep down inside someone would find it and his/her political career would be over. The ignorant masses hear "machine guns legal" and go nuts. IF it happened it would have to be a politician who is about to retire, or does not mind never getting elected again. The American people as a whole are net ready for this yet, as far as they know machine guns are illegal for anyone to own! |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:51:36 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you were going to do multiple paper form 1s, would you send them all on the same day or space them out a week at a time? Just, uh, out of curiousity. A friend of mine wants to know. I wouldn't do more than one. If you're trying to be considered a member of a class, one is all it takes. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:51:39 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you were going to do multiple paper form 1s, would you send them all on the same day or space them out a week at a time? Just, uh, out of curiousity. A friend of mine wants to know. Space them out. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:53:06 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If any politician put that into legislation deep down inside someone would find it and his/her political career would be over. The ignorant masses hear "machine guns legal" and go nuts. IF it happened it would have to be a politician who is about to retire, or does not mind never getting elected again. The American people as a whole are net ready for this yet, as far as they know machine guns are illegal for anyone to own! You are right. The American public doesn't seem to know what to make of machine guns. They see them on TV, they see shows like Guntucky or Sons of Guns and see collectors with them, but they still think they are illegal. Much of the American public thinks a machine gun is anything that looks like a machine gun, regardless of full auto capability or not. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:53:08 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If any politician put that into legislation deep down inside someone would find it and his/her political career would be over. The ignorant masses hear "machine guns legal" and go nuts. IF it happened it would have to be a politician who is about to retire, or does not mind never getting elected again. The American people as a whole are net ready for this yet, as far as they know machine guns are illegal for anyone to own! We need someone to fall on the sword for the greater good. Or yeah, like you said, hit it befors they retire. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:53:27 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know, the arfcom membership is a wide and deep pool of pretty much every profession there is. Surely we have among our ranks at least ONE person who can run and win a campaign for office, either Senate or House. And once in, can advance our causes, up to and including inserting favorable riders into bills (especially the bills nobody reads before they pass!). Maybe in a state like Arizona, with a senile old bastard like McCain, who has been too long suckling at Obama's teat. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you are in Texas and your Form 1 was denied (or approved), contact Ted Cruz and his office will make an inquiry. I'm curious as well. Is Cruz's office getting involved, or was whomper just suggesting it since Cruz is (usually, sometimes, often, take your pick) seen as being on our side? I contacted Cruz's office a long time ago about the 41p blowup. All I got was a chain email telling me about how he is standing up for gunowners post Sandy Hook and would I like to donate to his cause. Kinda left a bad taste in my mouth. You know, the arfcom membership is a wide and deep pool of pretty much every profession there is. Surely we have among our ranks at least ONE person who can run and win a campaign for office, either Senate or House. And once in, can advance our causes, up to and including inserting favorable riders into bills (especially the bills nobody reads before they pass!). Maybe in a state like Arizona, with a senile old bastard like McCain, who has been too long suckling at Obama's teat. I know of 2 that I have been trying to talk into at least going into state politics for years, they want no part of it. |
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