To all of my fellow shooters:

Today, I got a phone call from an old friend. Apparently, his roommate was cleaning his 1911 and accidentally put a hollow point through the wall. I sighed and asked him what happened. He told me that his roommate finished cleaning it, loaded it, and then dropped the hammer 'the wrong way' and slipped. I paused and asked him to clarify. Apparently, his roommate was doing what he'd been told, but didn't do it 'the right way'. My friend told me he always carries condition two with his 1911, and that he knew how to drop the hammer safely. I told him that he was mistaken: there is no way to drop the hammer on a loaded with 100% reliability, that a down hammer could snag something and drop on the pin, that cocking a down hammer if you need it is very difficult if not dangerous, and that the safeties were more than enough.

Now, agree or disagree with my opinions, that's not my point. My friend proceeded to tell me I was wrong, that he knew how to drop the hammer on a loaded chamber, and assured me that he could reliably lower the hammer 1,000 times without once ever slipping even a bit. When I called him on this, he said, "To each his own," and refused to hear another word on the matter. I've known him for years, and my disappointment was incredible. To every last shooter, your gun is a machine. It has no will, no desires, and no love for you. Don't be fooled into believing you are the master of your gun. My friend was too proud to realize, even after almost killing someone, that his practice was dangerous, or even to appreciate my opinion.

If you are a member here, odds are good you've had to sit through dozens of safety briefings. Over and over, we hear the commandments we live by. Good shooters smile and keep their mouths shut every single time. As a result of today's incident and a few other close calls, I have changed my commandments. The first and foremost on my list is humility. If someone, anyone, calls you on an unsafe practice, DO NOT ARGUE! Your pride will kill someone. Either that person is more experienced than you and knows better, or brave and upset enough to speak out against a veteran shooter.

We all make mistakes. But when you entrench yourself in a foolhardy belief that you are always right, you will hurt someone. Listen when spoken to! If you get called out, bend your pride long enough to cease your action, hear the argument against you with mouth shut. If someone speaks out, odds are good you are WRONG. I refuse to shoot with anyone who gets defensive. You should too, and when you get singled out, own it! If you're the kind of shooter that believes you can do no wrong, you are the very worst breed of who we are.

My respect to anyone who read my whole story. But I couldn't convince my friend to change his dangerous ways, and I can only hope someone else might hear me for what it's worth.

The fuck are you going on about?

Your buddy's an idiot.

I shoulda been a senator. Few thousand words to say next to nothing! Just thought I'd share, thanks for reading.

I always practice humility when shooting with others. There is usually more there that are smarter than me and can teach me new things. If those things feel unsafe then I research and ask others about it. This world needs more humility in all areas. Good for you for trying to help your friend and others. Keep talking to the friend. You never know when the message will get through.

People carry 1911's?

Have a lot less patience. If you're around someone who's not handling guns safely, leave. If you're at a public range, tell the management that you're leaving because the guy on lane X is dangerous.

Cocked and locked, or no round in the chamber. Never carry with a round in the chamber and the hammer down.

My dad has a 1911 (that desertmoon and I built) that is a better fit for him than a Glock, since he has a habit of limp-wristing. I set him up with a good holster and didn't think much about it until he mentioned that he was carrying condition 2. I took a few minutes and explained to him that carrying that particular gun in that particular fashion would be like carrying his grandad's Colt SAA with a live round under the hammer. I explained the way the safeties worked. Problem solved. He now carries condition 1 and is cognizant that if the gun has a round chambered, the thumb safety needs to stay on and the hammer should NEVER be lowered on a live round.

Yeah but your "rant" was 100% correct.  Your friend is deceiving himself into thinking that it's safe and will get bit eventually.  Hopefully no one gets hurt when that happens.

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It only takes one negligent discharge to change your, and possibly someone else's life forever. Only one. How would you feel having to explain to a person's wife or family why you killed their loved one? What could you possibly say? I will never criticize someone for taking safety too seriously.

Complacency, and know it all attitudes gotta lead the way in reasons for stupid firearms tragedies.

Shooters carry 1911's.



People carry everything else.



 

New Hampsha cacaine!!

Carrying a gun in the most unsafe way he can carry it. wow.

Join date/post count




 

when they do, cocked and locked is the intended mode of carrying.

Tell him that if he is that confident,he should put the muzzle in his mouth and "safely" lower the hammer 1000 times.

Cocked and locked, but not hammer down on a loaded chamber.

Went THROUGH the wall. Where did it go on the other side?  Who or what did this guy hit with his ND ?

Cocked and locked, or completely unloaded.  That's the only two ways to carry a 1911.  And since completely unloaded makes no sense at all then there's really only one way to do it.  



Yes, I know how to "safely" drop the hammer on a 1911.  I also quite clearly remember the colorful profanity used when teaching me the technique and why I would be a complete moron to ever do it unless I had the weapon pointed into a clearing barrel.  



The 1911 is as safe a fighting handgun as has ever been built.  But since people are idiots they go out of their way to make it unsafe, unreliable, and generally useless.



 

Apparently, the HP stuck in a stud, he found out today. The next apartment over is empty anyway, but even so, dude was too proud to admit maybe he was wrong. I like the idea of asking him to do it while sucking barrel.

Pee on him...

Your friend is a schmoe.

Beg our benevolent site staff to change your user name to "....babble"

FPNI is relevant.

Completely agree with OP, too.

Humility . . . . something learned through years of mistakes and realizing you aren't flawless





The older I get , the more I realize that there is yet to learn .(or however that proverb goes)

paging NorCal...

 

But wait!

How am I supposed to carry my CZ75B with the hammer down and a round in the chamber if I want to use the double action first pull because manual safeties on a gun are dangerous and will for sure get me killed?


WTF am I supposed to fucking do now!!!!111!

Scary stuff.  I'd have probably shot back.

moron is going to kill himself or worse somebody else. the pistol is not designed to work that way. cocked with the safety on is the only safe way for a loaded 1911 period.

Daily, in fact.

Cocked and locked is the only way to roll.

Anyone who cannot deal with this needs to roll...ummm..."Glocked."

This. It's like all the noobs have to write a fucking Agatha Christie novel.

when I lived in fort worth I made friends with 2 ATF agents, they were the good old boy gun nuts type. I will never forget the day one of them came over and asked me if I saw him jumping out of his car after his 1911 got caught in the seat belt and he had a ND. he thought he shot himself in the ass but it was just a powder burn. I had tears in my eyes as he described the whole scene

So the seat belt managed to wipe off the thumb safety, press in the grip safety, and pull the trigger?

Wow.  That guy WAS having a bad day!

Rut-row...

Uh ohh.

It's like a million teener-trolls all cried out at once ....and then were curb stomped .



 

OP, have you ever tasted cinder block?

Send him this thread. Your friend is a fucking stubborn idiot.

Well, obviously he is not safe doing it.

I have been letting the hammer down on loaded chambers since I was 12 (Winchesters, as a kid, later on Handguns added to the mix) I have never set off a round, but I recognize it is a chance and you have to accept that

Carrying a 1911 any way but cocked and locked is wrong, no ifs ands or Buts.

On top of everything mentioned so far, trying to cock a 1911 during the draw stroke is just damn awkward and dangerous in itself. I don't see how anyone could think it's a good idea.

Thats why the 1911 isn't a decocker. That being said, I've manually decocked my firearms (revolver, sig, 1911, HK, etc...) elevendy billion times w/o incident.

To each his own, YMMV and all that...

did i make it in before the full power of the force is realized?

My ND doing that taught me the lesson.

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It is perfectly safe to lower a 1911 hammer.  But the chamber has to be empty first.