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Posted: 4/21/2014 11:33:44 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Residual break heat had worked in the past Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The wheel well had to have been heated for him to survive.. Anybody have any knowledge of that? Residual break heat had worked in the past  |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 11:35:19 AM EDT
[#2]
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Still unpressurized, he would have been warmer but would be dead because of it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Such horseshit. Maybe in the cargo compartment... Still unpressurized, he would have been warmer but would be dead because of it. The cargo compartment is inside the pressurized zone. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 11:42:07 AM EDT
[#3]
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Residual break heat had worked in the past Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The wheel well had to have been heated for him to survive.. Anybody have any knowledge of that? Residual break heat had worked in the past How much break heat is generated by takeoff? |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 11:45:56 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How much break heat is generated by takeoff? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The wheel well had to have been heated for him to survive.. Anybody have any knowledge of that? Residual break heat had worked in the past How much break heat is generated by takeoff? |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 11:59:35 AM EDT
[#5]
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How about the security? What if that kid had 20 lbs of HE strapped on? you know every jackass with S.J.S (Sudden Jihad Syndrome) and an RSS feed is now planning to jump a fence and get in a wheel well. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 12:07:35 PM EDT
[#6]
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6 hour flight. Let's say an estimate of 4 hours at altitude. -70 degrees for 4 hours? Ok... lets say the radiant heat from the hydraulics and tires kept him warm enough for 2 hours until they cooled. 2 hours at -70 degrees and the kid didn't have frostbite? No lost fingers or toes? I call bullshit. I have another question, are the tires that hot from a landing still after being on the ground for a couple hours for turnaround? Seems like if they just landed then took off again but on a flight that long you're going to be on the ground at least a couple hours taking on fuel, getting the cabin turned around for the next load of people right? |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 12:17:40 PM EDT
[#7]
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I have another question, are the tires that hot from a landing still after being on the ground for a couple hours for turnaround? Seems like if they just landed then took off again but on a flight that long you're going to be on the ground at least a couple hours taking on fuel, getting the cabin turned around for the next load of people right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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6 hour flight. Let's say an estimate of 4 hours at altitude. -70 degrees for 4 hours? Ok... lets say the radiant heat from the hydraulics and tires kept him warm enough for 2 hours until they cooled. 2 hours at -70 degrees and the kid didn't have frostbite? No lost fingers or toes? I call bullshit. I have another question, are the tires that hot from a landing still after being on the ground for a couple hours for turnaround? Seems like if they just landed then took off again but on a flight that long you're going to be on the ground at least a couple hours taking on fuel, getting the cabin turned around for the next load of people right? No. Most modern aircraft (and retrofitted old ones) use carbon/carbon brakes. They dissipate heat very quickly, much more quickly than the old steel brakes did. Any heat in the brake would have been from brake application during taxi, and that wouldn't be much heat energy at all. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 12:23:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Publicity stunt for the Airline?
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Posted: 4/21/2014 12:23:41 PM EDT
[#9]
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Do pilots keep the brakes on while taking off? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The wheel well had to have been heated for him to survive.. Anybody have any knowledge of that? Residual break heat had worked in the past Only on treadmills. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 12:24:51 PM EDT
[#10]
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Publicity stunt for the Airline? What are they publicizing? Their new four class configuration, 1st, business, coach, and cargo? 
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Posted: 4/21/2014 12:27:30 PM EDT
[#11]
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What are they publicizing? Their new four class configuration, 1st, business, coach, and cargo? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Publicity stunt for the Airline? What are they publicizing? Their new four class configuration, 1st, business, coach, and cargo? hell I would much rather ride in cargo than coach |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 12:32:38 PM EDT
[#12]
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hell I would much rather ride in cargo than coach Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Publicity stunt for the Airline? What are they publicizing? Their new four class configuration, 1st, business, coach, and cargo? hell I would much rather ride in cargo than coach "Wing" - that's where they just strap you to the outside and you pray you don't fly off. Nice view though. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 12:35:29 PM EDT
[#13]
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"Wing" - that's where they just strap you to the outside and you pray you don't fly off. Nice view though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Publicity stunt for the Airline? What are they publicizing? Their new four class configuration, 1st, business, coach, and cargo? hell I would much rather ride in cargo than coach "Wing" - that's where they just strap you to the outside and you pray you don't fly off. Nice view though. The Russians have had "wing class" since the 30s.
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Posted: 4/21/2014 12:38:31 PM EDT
[#14]
Some time in the early/mid 1960's a pair of Cuban Teens hid inside the wheel well of an airliner headed to Spain. As I recall from the article they were very cold, maybe semi-conscious, but alive and otherwise healthy when the airliner landed. They were regarded as hero's for their novel escape from Fidel's Cuba.
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Posted: 4/21/2014 12:38:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Apparently he's not the only person to have survived a trip in the wheel well and the wheels do put out some heat (but probably not for the whole flight of course)
The last known survivor of a stowaway incident was last August on a domestic flight within Nigeria, Africa, according to the FAA. In 2000, Fidel Maruhi survived a 4,000-mile journey from Tahiti to Los Angeles. Victor Alvarez Molina survived a trip from Cuba to Canada in 2002, and five years later 15-year-old Andrei Shcherbakov survived a trip from Perm, Russia, to Moscow, claiming he went into the wheel well to check it out and fell asleep. Pardeep Saini was found alive at London’s Heathrow airport in 1997 after traveling from Delhi with his younger brother, Vijay, who did not survive the trip. "The noise was terrible," he told British media at the time. "As the wheels came up they were glowing hot. They were burning us. The wheel house was shaking. It was like an earthquake. My whole body started feeling numb." |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 12:41:03 PM EDT
[#16]
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Your link doesn't work. What FAA report? At what altitude and what duration? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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https://music.yahoo.com/news/did-teen-stowaway-survive-5-1-2-hour-111454804.html ABC News cites a Federal Aviation Administration report that estimates that the chances of surviving as a wheel-well stowaway on a commercial aircraft are about 24 percent. Radiant heat from the plane's hydraulics as well as the wheels themselves can help warm the compartment, the FAA notes. And the plane's gradual ascent and descent allow the body to adjust to the extremes of cold, lack of oxygen, and low pressure. Your link doesn't work. What FAA report? At what altitude and what duration? No idea why it doesn't work for you but it doesn't link to or specifically name the report. The next link discusses a 1996 FAA report on the matter and gives some interesting info but it's too long to quote. http://news.yahoo.com/stowaway-might-survived-international-flight-wheel-well-153026252.html FAA report Survival at high altitude: wheel well passengers |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 12:45:57 PM EDT
[#17]
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No idea why it doesn't work for you but it doesn't link to or specifically name the report. The next link discusses a 1996 FAA report on the matter and gives some interesting info but it's too long to quote. http://news.yahoo.com/stowaway-might-survived-international-flight-wheel-well-153026252.html Quote HistoryQuoted:
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https://music.yahoo.com/news/did-teen-stowaway-survive-5-1-2-hour-111454804.html ABC News cites a Federal Aviation Administration report that estimates that the chances of surviving as a wheel-well stowaway on a commercial aircraft are about 24 percent. Radiant heat from the plane's hydraulics as well as the wheels themselves can help warm the compartment, the FAA notes. And the plane's gradual ascent and descent allow the body to adjust to the extremes of cold, lack of oxygen, and low pressure. Your link doesn't work. What FAA report? At what altitude and what duration? No idea why it doesn't work for you but it doesn't link to or specifically name the report. The next link discusses a 1996 FAA report on the matter and gives some interesting info but it's too long to quote. http://news.yahoo.com/stowaway-might-survived-international-flight-wheel-well-153026252.html The link worked this time. That's pretty interesting, I'm really surprised that survival is possible. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 12:49:08 PM EDT
[#18]
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I doubt it is ever -70 in the wheel well itself. The airstream outside may be -40 or so, but the radiant heat from the adjacent cargo compartment/passenger compartment, the fuel tank(s) plus residual heat from the brakes (not much from taxi/takeoff) would probably keep it closer to 0. I still think it's complete bullshit, and I think he was in the passenger or crew compartment somewhere. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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6 hour flight. Let's say an estimate of 4 hours at altitude. -70 degrees for 4 hours? Ok... lets say the radiant heat from the hydraulics and tires kept him warm enough for 2 hours until they cooled. 2 hours at -70 degrees and the kid didn't have frostbite? No lost fingers or toes? I call bullshit. I doubt it is ever -70 in the wheel well itself. The airstream outside may be -40 or so, but the radiant heat from the adjacent cargo compartment/passenger compartment, the fuel tank(s) plus residual heat from the brakes (not much from taxi/takeoff) would probably keep it closer to 0. I still think it's complete bullshit, and I think he was in the passenger or crew compartment somewhere. Even at 0 degrees, you'd start getting frostbite within an hour with no gloves on. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 12:57:41 PM EDT
[#19]
News reported that out of a 125 people who have done this over the years only 25 survived.
A Doctor was saying that his body may have entered into some type of hypothermic state and his body shut down and slowly recovered on the decent. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 1:01:37 PM EDT
[#20]
Yeah I'm calling BS
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Posted: 4/21/2014 1:01:45 PM EDT
[#21]
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News reported that out of a 125 people who have done this over the years only 25 survived. A Doctor was saying that his body may have entered into some type of hypothermic state and his body shut down and slowly recovered on the decent. Those are not good odds...and you don't get frequent flier miles. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 1:04:41 PM EDT
[#22]
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Those are not good odds...and you don't get frequent flier miles. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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News reported that out of a 125 people who have done this over the years only 25 survived. A Doctor was saying that his body may have entered into some type of hypothermic state and his body shut down and slowly recovered on the decent. Those are not good odds...and you don't get frequent flier miles. Nor do you get asked if you'd like cookies, pretzels or peanuts. Maybe he's part Sherpa? |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 1:14:01 PM EDT
[#23]
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Those are not good odds...and you don't get frequent flier miles. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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News reported that out of a 125 people who have done this over the years only 25 survived. A Doctor was saying that his body may have entered into some type of hypothermic state and his body shut down and slowly recovered on the decent. Those are not good odds...and you don't get frequent flier miles. On the plus side, you don't have to wrestle a fat guy for the armrest. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 1:14:57 PM EDT
[#24]
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Yeah I'm calling BS It's for realz. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 1:17:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah I'm calling BS |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 1:18:10 PM EDT
[#26]
Sometimes they lose their grip before the wheels come up.
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Posted: 4/21/2014 1:34:03 PM EDT
[#27]
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Sometimes they lose their grip before the wheels come up.
http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae159/draynes/blind_16_9_81264816x9.jpg Where was that? |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 1:38:39 PM EDT
[#28]
At what altitude do the doors open for final approach?
I would think the kid would still be unconscious. If so, he should have fallen out. Unless he had the foresight to tie himself down. I'm calling BS. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 1:40:30 PM EDT
[#29]
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Aside from the fact that he now has 40 percent fewer functional brain cells Quote HistoryQuoted:
the boy was medically screened and found to be unharmed. Aside from the fact that he now has 40 percent fewer functional brain cells He didn't survive 38K feet and those temperatures without SOME kind of damage! 
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Posted: 4/21/2014 1:41:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where was that? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Sometimes they lose their grip before the wheels come up. http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae159/draynes/blind_16_9_81264816x9.jpg Where was that? http://miepvonsydow.wordpress.com/2013/12/21/a-14-year-old-boy-falls-out-of-the-wheel-well-of-an-airliner-as-it-takes-off-1970/ I recalled a remarkable photograph I’d seen as a teenager depicting a young boy falling to his death from the landing gear bay of a Japan Air Lines DC-8. The picture would have been taken in the late 1960s or early ’70s. I remembered it vividly, but hadn’t seen it in more than 20 years. After much searching, I’ve finally managed to locate a copy online, viewable here. As the caption explains, John Gilpin, an amateur photographer, was trying out a new camera lens at the airport in Sydney, Australia, when he unwittingly captured the deadly fall of 14-year-old Keith Sapsford, who had sneaked into the undercarriage well in hopes of reaching Japan. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 1:45:07 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I doubt it is ever -70 in the wheel well itself. The airstream outside may be -40 or so, but the radiant heat from the adjacent cargo compartment/passenger compartment, the fuel tank(s) plus residual heat from the brakes (not much from taxi/takeoff) would probably keep it closer to 0. I still think it's complete bullshit, and I think he was in the passenger or crew compartment somewhere. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 6 hour flight. Let's say an estimate of 4 hours at altitude. -70 degrees for 4 hours? Ok... lets say the radiant heat from the hydraulics and tires kept him warm enough for 2 hours until they cooled. 2 hours at -70 degrees and the kid didn't have frostbite? No lost fingers or toes? I call bullshit. I doubt it is ever -70 in the wheel well itself. The airstream outside may be -40 or so, but the radiant heat from the adjacent cargo compartment/passenger compartment, the fuel tank(s) plus residual heat from the brakes (not much from taxi/takeoff) would probably keep it closer to 0. I still think it's complete bullshit, and I think he was in the passenger or crew compartment somewhere.  How would he get into and out of the pass/crew compartments at both airports from the tarmac? http://abcnews.go.com/US/video-shows-stowaway-teen-exiting-wheel-death-defying/story?id=23402777 Airport surveillance video shows a 16-year-old stowaway easing his way out of a jetliner's front wheel well and stepping onto the tarmac in Hawaii after miraculously surviving a five-hour flight from San Jose, Calif., in the unpressurized compartment, authorities said today. The video appears to lend credence to the teen's story that he survived a flight that some experts deemed impossible. The video captured the stowaway -- wearing a hoodie, jeans and sneakers -- exiting the wheel well of a Hawaiian Airlines Boeing 767. "Surveillance video at Kahului Airport showed what appeared to be the boy exiting from the wheel well of a plane from San Jose, California, that had landed in Kahului, Maui, at about 10:30 a.m.," Maui Airports District Manager Marvin Moniz told ABC News. <snip> |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 1:45:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do pilots keep the brakes on while taking off? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The wheel well had to have been heated for him to survive.. Anybody have any knowledge of that? Residual break heat had worked in the past Only when taking off from a treadmill. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 2:07:25 PM EDT
[#33]
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Should have jumped into the marsh after takeoff. Then off to rescue Jenny. I see what you did there. Let off some steam, Bennett. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 2:12:57 PM EDT
[#34]
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Typically airport police. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How about the security? What if that kid had 20 lbs of HE strapped on? Well then, I don't think he would have survived Right.. and neither would the couple hundred passengers and crew if it were detonated at say 15k ft. Seems like a huge fail by the vaunted TSA. Is an airport perimeter and Tarmac area the responsibility of TSA or airport police? Yep. I was being sarcastic for the people making the TSA cracks. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 2:19:34 PM EDT
[#35]
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Should have jumped into the marsh after takeoff. Then off to rescue Jenny. But don't bother that guy that was sitting next to him, though. He was dead tired. 
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Posted: 4/21/2014 2:43:05 PM EDT
[#36]
whats the point of tsa?
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Posted: 4/21/2014 2:48:06 PM EDT
[#37]
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Should have jumped into the marsh after takeoff. Then off to rescue Jenny. or gone in the maintenance door,past the barking dog then up the elevator to the warm cozy cabin. I think there is an empty seat next to that tired guy. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 2:50:34 PM EDT
[#38]
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What are they publicizing? Their new four class configuration, 1st, business, coach, and cargo? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Publicity stunt for the Airline? What are they publicizing? Their new four class configuration, 1st, business, coach, and cargo? They already have the banners up in airports: "Steerage class, redefined" |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 3:24:50 PM EDT
[#39]
Local news just reported he was seen climbing down from the landing gear. Yesterdays paper said he fell down & collapsed
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Posted: 4/21/2014 3:26:34 PM EDT
[#40]
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whats the point of tsa? The guy sneaking onto an airport and climbing into a plane isn't a TSA issue. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 3:50:01 PM EDT
[#41]
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Local news just reported he was seen climbing down from the landing gear. Yesterdays paper said he fell down & collapsed That's really just a difference in descriptive style. Go to any college campus on a Friday night and try to figure out who is walking/climbing vs collapsing & falling. 
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Posted: 4/21/2014 3:54:15 PM EDT
[#42]
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They already have the banners up in airports: "Steerage class, redefined" Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Publicity stunt for the Airline? What are they publicizing? Their new four class configuration, 1st, business, coach, and cargo? They already have the banners up in airports: "Steerage class, redefined" Steerage class is obviously in the nose wheel well.
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Posted: 4/21/2014 4:07:44 PM EDT
[#43]
>>Airport surveillance video shows a 16-year-old stowaway easing his way out of a jetliner's front wheel well and stepping onto the tarmac in Hawaii after miraculously surviving a five-hour flight from San Jose, Calif., in the unpressurized compartment, authorities said today. <<
If this is in fact true, then this is a hoax. There is no room for a human being in the nose wheel well of a B767 when the nose gear is retracted. He would have been crushed. The main gear areas have room, but not the nose gear. I don't believe this story. I think it's a hoax. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 4:08:17 PM EDT
[#44]
Based upon the news reports of this (no matter what happened) there will be a dozen or better idiots who think it will be a good idea to also try the wheelwell out in the next year
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Posted: 4/21/2014 4:12:23 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
>>Airport surveillance video shows a 16-year-old stowaway easing his way out of a jetliner's front wheel well and stepping onto the tarmac in Hawaii after miraculously surviving a five-hour flight from San Jose, Calif., in the unpressurized compartment, authorities said today. << If this is in fact true, then this is a hoax. There is no room for a human being in the nose wheel well of a B767 when the nose gear is retracted. He would have been crushed. The main gear areas have room, but not the nose gear. I don't believe this story. I think it's a hoax. Another report mentioned it being the left main wheel well. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 4:14:57 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's really just a difference in descriptive style. Go to any college campus on a Friday night and try to figure out who is walking/climbing vs collapsing & falling. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Local news just reported he was seen climbing down from the landing gear. Yesterdays paper said he fell down & collapsed That's really just a difference in descriptive style. Go to any college campus on a Friday night and try to figure out who is walking/climbing vs collapsing & falling. You sound like an expert. 
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Posted: 4/21/2014 4:30:18 PM EDT
[#47]
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Another report mentioned it being the left main wheel well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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>>Airport surveillance video shows a 16-year-old stowaway easing his way out of a jetliner's front wheel well and stepping onto the tarmac in Hawaii after miraculously surviving a five-hour flight from San Jose, Calif., in the unpressurized compartment, authorities said today. << If this is in fact true, then this is a hoax. There is no room for a human being in the nose wheel well of a B767 when the nose gear is retracted. He would have been crushed. The main gear areas have room, but not the nose gear. I don't believe this story. I think it's a hoax. Another report mentioned it being the left main wheel well. Somebody locally here in HI posted a photo in response to the original story. It was a photo of two footprints on top of a MLG tire with the comment "you're going to see this on the news soon". |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 4:48:49 PM EDT
[#48]
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If he survived that he can climb MT. Everest right? I think that is 10,000 feet above Everest, could be wrong though. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 4:56:23 PM EDT
[#49]
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whats the point of tsa? Employ sex offenders, They have a hard time finding jobs.
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Posted: 4/21/2014 5:04:45 PM EDT
[#50]
I had linked to a stagnation temp chart, but then realized I already had an adiabatic wall temperature chart prepared, so I won't have to bore you with the math to convert from free-stream to adiabatic wall, using stagnation as a starting point.
[For those of you interested, the skin temperature (adiabatic wall) of the aircraft is 0.7x of the temperature rise between the full stagnation value, and the ambient value.] This table does that calc. What's up with the axes? Well, arfcom loves the SR-71, so this table was done to bound that flight envelope. It's a little coarse for airliner work, but it's good enough. 
For a 0.85M, 38,000 feet, the skin temperature would be right around -30ºF. The main gear bay is outside of the cabin/cargo pressure boundary and any ventilation airflow through that bay would be via ram air, which would enter the aircraft at stagnation temperature, which would be -17ºF at these flight conditions. It's unlikely an unconscious human would survive these conditions without proper protective clothing, and even more unlikely there would be no evidence of thermal injury around the lips, nose, ears, fingertips, et cetera. ETA: The tires will be around 200ºF after the takeoff roll in near-standard conditions. So, that's a good source of heat, but at a time when you really don't need it, nor want it. |
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