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Posted: 4/20/2014 5:50:06 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. Not ready. Weak military and weak leader. Even if we did win we would lose in the long run. We would send tons of money to rebuild and oil prices would go up even higher. Our military is a lot of things but weak ain't one of them. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 6:38:46 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Our military is a lot of things but weak ain't one of them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No. Not ready. Weak military and weak leader. Even if we did win we would lose in the long run. We would send tons of money to rebuild and oil prices would go up even higher. Our military is a lot of things but weak ain't one of them. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 6:41:16 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What good is a strong sharp sword without someone who will wield it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No. Not ready. Weak military and weak leader. Even if we did win we would lose in the long run. We would send tons of money to rebuild and oil prices would go up even higher. Our military is a lot of things but weak ain't one of them. I didn't say that we didn't have weak leadership. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 6:47:14 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Think about the difference between the WWII generation and this one... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We are probably not ready but we weren't ready for WWII either and we made it work. This generation has been able to sustain decade long operations without resorting to a draft. Think about that for a minute. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 6:49:16 AM EDT
[#5]
Financial warfare will be waged first. It wouldn't take much to cause a market panic and destroy our currency.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 6:55:09 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Financial warfare will be waged first. It wouldn't take much to cause a market panic and destroy our currency. They are already waging that war. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 6:57:51 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Financial warfare will be waged first. It wouldn't take much to cause a market panic and destroy our currency. The Russian economy is pathetically weak. If people stop buying their oil/gas all of the big companies run by Putin's KGB buddies and sycophants will struggle, and will have to be propped up by the state, which will have no money. The US economy is much, much stronger than the Russian one - just like the military. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 7:07:23 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you really think Bush would have been in Russia over this piddly shit, you've lost it. Or never had it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We would push them back to their current borders. FBHO doesn't want war, he will do what he can to avoid it. Its in putins hands now. Bush would have been in Russia kicking ass. If you really think Bush would have been in Russia over this piddly shit, you've lost it. Or never had it. He went to Iraq for less. Just sayin'. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 7:10:51 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hope not. I just finished setting up my plate carrier and war belt in coyote tan and don't want to have to buy a whole new set up to me cool.  OD, brother. Just rub the dirt from your AO on it, and it works everywhere. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 7:20:31 AM EDT
[#10]
Guess like we did in vietnam right?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SAM yes. But their air power is almost a joke. They don't have enough money to properly train their pilots and maintain their equipment. We would make short work of their air force. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It would be different to go against a foe with a credible Air to Air and SAM threat. That, and no fucking snackbars. SAM yes. But their air power is almost a joke. They don't have enough money to properly train their pilots and maintain their equipment. We would make short work of their air force. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 7:23:14 AM EDT
[#11]
I think the outcome would be very much like the first invasion of Iraq, and Putin knows it.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 7:23:48 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Russian economy is pathetically weak. If people stop buying their oil/gas all of the big companies run by Putin's KGB buddies and sycophants will struggle, and will have to be propped up by the state, which will have no money. The US economy is much, much stronger than the Russian one - just like the military. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Financial warfare will be waged first. It wouldn't take much to cause a market panic and destroy our currency. The Russian economy is pathetically weak. If people stop buying their oil/gas all of the big companies run by Putin's KGB buddies and sycophants will struggle, and will have to be propped up by the state, which will have no money. The US economy is much, much stronger than the Russian one - just like the military. We work with borrowed money. We had the goose that laid the golden egg, rebuilding the rest of the world with our manufacturing and economic might at the end of WWII, with the exception of the Soviets. We became greedy, and have turned that goose into a monster that is going to bite us in the end. Greed, and lust for power corrupt every society, it is human nature. The cold war was a 15 round unanimous decision, but the winner took a lot of damage too. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 7:24:27 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meh. Too much effort. Just nuke them. That means we get nuked. No thanks My military career had a sharp dividing line pre and post 9/11 Before 9/11 we were training to fight the Russian bear The current young military guys who only know the sandbox would have to relearn old lessons |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 7:27:01 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That means we get nuked. No thanks My military career had a sharp dividing line pre and post 9/11 Before 9/11 we were training to fight the Russian bear The current young military guys who only know the sandbox would have to relearn old lessons Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Meh. Too much effort. Just nuke them. That means we get nuked. No thanks My military career had a sharp dividing line pre and post 9/11 Before 9/11 we were training to fight the Russian bear The current young military guys who only know the sandbox would have to relearn old lessons True dat. I am a child of the cold war. Time to restock the CD shelters. 
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Posted: 4/20/2014 7:30:44 AM EDT
[#15]
You are underestimating our conventional capabilities.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 7:32:35 AM EDT
[#16]
no doubt the US military would kick ass - which would make the russians quickly go NBC...
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Posted: 4/20/2014 7:38:07 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are underestimating our conventional capabilities. Actually I am not. We have the numbers and equipment. I am questioning the training. Not the quality mind you but the subject. We have fought for a decade in a totally different type of conflict. Troops would have to be retrained for heavy maneuver warfare in Europe. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 7:45:12 AM EDT
[#18]
Considering that I'm always hearing that Europe doesn't like us and wants us out, I'd suggest that we met them take care of it themselves then.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 7:52:20 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Considering that I'm always hearing that Europe doesn't like us and wants us out, I'd suggest that we met them take care of it themselves then. If they let us...  |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 8:51:48 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree that logistics win wars and we have logistics down to not only a science but an art. How many armored divisions do we now have anyway? Seems like I read that we only have one. I hope that ain't so. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Russia is a regional power at best. Their supply lines only run as far as the fuel tank of a Ural truck,from the last filling station before you cross the Russian boarder. No real NCO corps, still use conscripts, dated equipment. The Russians shameful performance in Chechnya and Georgia are good examples of their blundering. I know that Russia pf today is not even comparable to the old Soviet Union but it seems that we may have given up a lot of our expertise in fighting a large scale war,which would include massed armor, for fighting a counterinsurgency conflict. Not that there is anything wrong with that since that is what we have had to deal with over the last decade but it makes me wonder how long it would take to train the tactics needed on the European battlefield to our troops. I'm not even sure there are enough senior officers now with the training for a conflict in Europe. Its not like the Russians have this experience either. While Company level officers might be a bit behind the times i am confident our field and General grade officers are educated in large scale armored warfare. A type of warfare I have serious reservations about the. Russians ability to wage. Most importantly i am confident in the superior logistics ability of our forces. Logistics projected to the other side of the world on 2 fronts is something we have a great deal of experience in. Logistics wins wars. Putin is bluffing because he knows Obama is weak. Putin will bully and cajole what he can. But he doesn't want war either. I agree that logistics win wars and we have logistics down to not only a science but an art. How many armored divisions do we now have anyway? Seems like I read that we only have one. I hope that ain't so. That is one thing that seems pretty confusing about the naming of US Army divisions. Take the 3rd Infantry Division for instance... It has 3 Armored BCTs and 1 Infantry BCT, yet it's called an "infantry division". The 1st ID is the same, I believe. How many of our "infantry divisions" are actually armored? |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 8:56:01 AM EDT
[#21]
The next "war" won't look like the previous wars in Europe, if the history of warfare in Europe is any guide.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:09:12 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is one thing that seems pretty confusing about the naming of US Army divisions. Take the 3rd Infantry Division for instance... It has 3 Armored BCTs and 1 Infantry BCT, yet it's called an "infantry division". The 1st ID is the same, I believe. How many of our "infantry divisions" are actually armored? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Russia is a regional power at best. Their supply lines only run as far as the fuel tank of a Ural truck,from the last filling station before you cross the Russian boarder. No real NCO corps, still use conscripts, dated equipment. The Russians shameful performance in Chechnya and Georgia are good examples of their blundering. I know that Russia pf today is not even comparable to the old Soviet Union but it seems that we may have given up a lot of our expertise in fighting a large scale war,which would include massed armor, for fighting a counterinsurgency conflict. Not that there is anything wrong with that since that is what we have had to deal with over the last decade but it makes me wonder how long it would take to train the tactics needed on the European battlefield to our troops. I'm not even sure there are enough senior officers now with the training for a conflict in Europe. Its not like the Russians have this experience either. While Company level officers might be a bit behind the times i am confident our field and General grade officers are educated in large scale armored warfare. A type of warfare I have serious reservations about the. Russians ability to wage. Most importantly i am confident in the superior logistics ability of our forces. Logistics projected to the other side of the world on 2 fronts is something we have a great deal of experience in. Logistics wins wars. Putin is bluffing because he knows Obama is weak. Putin will bully and cajole what he can. But he doesn't want war either. I agree that logistics win wars and we have logistics down to not only a science but an art. How many armored divisions do we now have anyway? Seems like I read that we only have one. I hope that ain't so. That is one thing that seems pretty confusing about the naming of US Army divisions. Take the 3rd Infantry Division for instance... It has 3 Armored BCTs and 1 Infantry BCT, yet it's called an "infantry division". The 1st ID is the same, I believe. How many of our "infantry divisions" are actually armored? I would consider that mechanized infantry. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:10:11 AM EDT
[#23]
Maybe Barry will FDR his way into a few more terms.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:16:55 AM EDT
[#24]
The skills and organization needed to fight a major conventional war haven't disappeared. We would win; it would be more costly than we've been used to, though.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:17:37 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most of their tanks rusting in depots don't run. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Best not retire the A-10 Warthog just yet..... Most of their tanks rusting in depots don't run. That must have been why the Georgians didn't have any problems with Russian tanks in 08. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:20:22 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Best not retire the A-10 Warthog just yet..... I totally agree........ |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:22:19 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would consider that mechanized infantry. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I agree that logistics win wars and we have logistics down to not only a science but an art. How many armored divisions do we now have anyway? Seems like I read that we only have one. I hope that ain't so. That is one thing that seems pretty confusing about the naming of US Army divisions. Take the 3rd Infantry Division for instance... It has 3 Armored BCTs and 1 Infantry BCT, yet it's called an "infantry division". The 1st ID is the same, I believe. How many of our "infantry divisions" are actually armored? I would consider that mechanized infantry. They have mechanized infantry in the Armored BCTs, but the Armored BCTs have a tank battalion assigned to them as well. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/3rd_US_Infantry_Division.png |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:26:03 AM EDT
[#28]
Conventionally, we'd hand Russia it's ass.
But it wouldn't stay conventional. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:28:35 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. Not ready. Weak military and weak leader. Even if we did win we would lose in the long run. We would send tons of money to rebuild and oil prices would go up even higher. LOL???????? You can argue the US military might is greater than the entire world's combined. Seriously, that's not really an exaggeration.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:30:49 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Think about the difference between the WWII generation and this one... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We are probably not ready but we weren't ready for WWII either and we made it work. Have you seen movies and read books from the early to mid 20th century? Americans have ALWAYS looked at themselves as being weak and too comfortable. Yet, whenever we have had to answer the bell, we did. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:33:43 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Conventionally, we'd had Russia it's ass. But it wouldn't stay conventional. I grew up on SAC bases; I know how to duck and cover. I'm sure I'll be fine. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:33:54 AM EDT
[#32]
We could always ask the cops for our armored vehicles back.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:34:13 AM EDT
[#33]
how many Div does the US have in Europe now ready to go?
Russia was able to mobilize a decent amount of troops and armor in under a week and get them to the border with Ukraine |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:35:03 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the outcome would be very much like the first invasion of Iraq, and Putin knows it. Otherwise, I don't think the Russians would allow themselves to be conquered by us without throwing every nuke they had. They'd have the mentality that if they're going down, they're taking everyone with them.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:35:55 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
how many Div does the US have in Europe now ready to go? Russia was able to mobilize a decent amount of troops and armor in under a week and get them to the border with Ukraine This is another thing I was wondering. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:49:06 AM EDT
[#36]
The main problem in the world is technology. We need a binding resolution from the UN that all nations must return to Medieval warfare. America would be much safer if you had to load sailing ships with foot soldiers to attack us.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:50:58 AM EDT
[#37]
No shooting war until the Russkie's invade Germany.
We would let Putin take over Poland and fuck them yet again.
My guess is a lot of hot air on both sides, and economic tit for tat shit going on back and forth, gas line to Western Europe shut off. Bottom line NO shots will be fired, no nukes, no chemicals, |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:50:59 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is another thing I was wondering. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
how many Div does the US have in Europe now ready to go? Russia was able to mobilize a decent amount of troops and armor in under a week and get them to the border with Ukraine This is another thing I was wondering. I don't really know the answer to this question either, but I suspect that a lot of the folks who are dismissive of the Russian threat are assuming that a lot of the old cold war assets are still in place, when in actual fact they have been quietly removed or dismantled in the post cold war years. Having to move a division's worth of equipment and the associated logistical tail all the way to Poland would be a major undertaking which could take months. If the US has to contend with moving multiple divisions ASAP using contested shipping lanes and damaged rail lines, then we're talking about a real nightmare. Fighters which can operate and survive against modern Russian air defenses exist in very low quantities, and don't have 100% availability. Some are always going to be down for maintenance or be dedicated to training, not to mention inevitable losses. Losing a dozen F22s would hurt. You guys have some great equipment and great fighting men, but not enough of either just now to fight a near-peer without being badly bloodied. And unfortunately you don't have the leadership necessary to set things right either. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:52:11 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Conventionally, we'd hand Russia it's ass. But it wouldn't stay conventional. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:53:32 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But it wouldn't stay conventional. I think it would stay contained and conventional. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Conventionally, we'd hand Russia it's ass. I think it would stay contained and conventional. It will be probably something other than conventional major combat operations, but still a war. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:56:01 AM EDT
[#41]
Are you ready for the .mil suicide rate to skyrocket from an already all-time high?
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:58:35 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you ready for the .mil suicide rate to skyrocket from an already all-time high? John Murtha, is that you? |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 10:00:41 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Russian economy is pathetically weak. If people stop buying their oil/gas all of the big companies run by Putin's KGB buddies and sycophants will struggle, and will have to be propped up by the state, which will have no money. The US economy is much, much stronger than the Russian one - just like the military. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Financial warfare will be waged first. It wouldn't take much to cause a market panic and destroy our currency. The Russian economy is pathetically weak. If people stop buying their oil/gas all of the big companies run by Putin's KGB buddies and sycophants will struggle, and will have to be propped up by the state, which will have no money. The US economy is much, much stronger than the Russian one - just like the military. Yup. If we went to war, all we would have to do is send a bunch of long range missiles to destroy their resource chains. They wouldn't last long. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 10:00:50 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We would let Putin take over Poland and fuck them yet again.
, So you are predicting the end of NATO and the U.S. openly admitting to allied nations that you will NOT honor treaty obligations to them? That would drastically change the entire global landscape, and would probably result in China moving rapidly to invade Taiwan, and also to start taking remote Japanese islands very soon. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 10:06:21 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you are predicting the end of NATO and the U.S. openly admitting to allied nations that you will NOT honor treaty obligations to them? That would drastically change the entire global landscape, and would probably result in China moving rapidly to invade Taiwan, and also to start taking remote Japanese islands very soon. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We would let Putin take over Poland and fuck them yet again.
, So you are predicting the end of NATO and the U.S. openly admitting to allied nations that you will NOT honor treaty obligations to them? That would drastically change the entire global landscape, and would probably result in China moving rapidly to invade Taiwan, and also to start taking remote Japanese islands very soon. I call dibs on Greenland. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 10:06:57 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup. If we went to war, all we would have to do is send a bunch of long range missiles to destroy their resource chains. They wouldn't last long. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Financial warfare will be waged first. It wouldn't take much to cause a market panic and destroy our currency. The Russian economy is pathetically weak. If people stop buying their oil/gas all of the big companies run by Putin's KGB buddies and sycophants will struggle, and will have to be propped up by the state, which will have no money. The US economy is much, much stronger than the Russian one - just like the military. Yup. If we went to war, all we would have to do is send a bunch of long range missiles to destroy their resource chains. They wouldn't last long. do you remember how much of a hit the US economy took just from 9/11? the GDP dropped from around +4% to something like +1% |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 10:09:35 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you are predicting the end of NATO and the U.S. openly admitting to allied nations that you will NOT honor treaty obligations to them? That would drastically change the entire global landscape, and would probably result in China moving rapidly to invade Taiwan, and also to start taking remote Japanese islands very soon. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We would let Putin take over Poland and fuck them yet again. , So you are predicting the end of NATO and the U.S. openly admitting to allied nations that you will NOT honor treaty obligations to them? That would drastically change the entire global landscape, and would probably result in China moving rapidly to invade Taiwan, and also to start taking remote Japanese islands very soon. What's this you business? Don't you love America? How about getting with the program? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win? |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 10:09:54 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol russian military is garbage. Unless they go nuclear, the US would wipe the floor with them without even breaking a sweat. The only things they are good at is posing for Putin propaganda, and pushing around pathetically weak little shitass countries on their borders Which is exactly why they would go nuclear. Do you think Putin could just let his battered and broken army retreat home with their tail between their legs and call it a lesson? Obviously not.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 10:12:01 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which is exactly why they would go nuclear. Do you think Putin could just let his battered and broken army retreat home with their tail between their legs and call it a lesson? Obviously not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
lol russian military is garbage. Unless they go nuclear, the US would wipe the floor with them without even breaking a sweat. The only things they are good at is posing for Putin propaganda, and pushing around pathetically weak little shitass countries on their borders Which is exactly why they would go nuclear. Do you think Putin could just let his battered and broken army retreat home with their tail between their legs and call it a lesson? Obviously not. He will unless he wants to see Moscow turned into a big glass parking lot. MAD. How does it work? |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 10:12:39 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you are predicting the end of NATO and the U.S. openly admitting to allied nations that you will NOT honor treaty obligations to them? That would drastically change the entire global landscape, and would probably result in China moving rapidly to invade Taiwan, and also to start taking remote Japanese islands very soon. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We would let Putin take over Poland and fuck them yet again.
, So you are predicting the end of NATO and the U.S. openly admitting to allied nations that you will NOT honor treaty obligations to them? That would drastically change the entire global landscape, and would probably result in China moving rapidly to invade Taiwan, and also to start taking remote Japanese islands very soon. As opposed to our recent robust defense of our long standing counterproliferation stances? |
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