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Posted: 4/19/2014 6:33:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Meh. Too much effort. Just nuke them.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 6:37:35 PM EDT
[#2]
at least that idiotic move to m855 will finally be worthwhile
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Posted: 4/19/2014 6:39:06 PM EDT
[#3]
Best not retire the A-10 Warthog just yet.....
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Posted: 4/19/2014 6:40:08 PM EDT
[#4]
Russia is a regional power at best. Their supply lines only run as far as the fuel tank of a Ural truck,from the last filling station before you cross the Russian boarder.
No real NCO corps, still use conscripts, dated equipment. The Russians shameful performance in Chechnya and Georgia are good examples of their blundering. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 6:40:37 PM EDT
[#5]
We are probably not ready but we weren't ready for WWII either and we made it work.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 6:40:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Best not retire the A-10 Warthog just yet..... Most of their tanks rusting in depots don't run. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 6:46:38 PM EDT
[#7]
We would push them back to their current borders. FBHO doesn't want war, he will do what he can to avoid it. Its in putins hands now. Bush would have been in Russia kicking ass.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 6:50:26 PM EDT
[#8]
Ivan doesn't stand a chance.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 6:51:04 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Best not retire the A-10 Warthog just yet..... And this |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 6:56:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most of their tanks rusting in depots don't run. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Best not retire the A-10 Warthog just yet..... Most of their tanks rusting in depots don't run. Good, even easier for the Warthog to shoot holes in a stationary target! |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 6:57:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We would push them back to their current borders. FBHO doesn't want war, he will do what he can to avoid it. Its in putins hands now. Bush would have been in Russia kicking ass. Putin would not have lifted a finger agsinst Bush to begin with. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 6:58:37 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Russia is a regional power at best. Their supply lines only run as far as the fuel tank of a Ural truck,from the last filling station before you cross the Russian boarder. No real NCO corps, still use conscripts, dated equipment. The Russians shameful performance in Chechnya and Georgia are good examples of their blundering. I know that Russia pf today is not even comparable to the old Soviet Union but it seems that we may have given up a lot of our expertise in fighting a large scale war,which would include massed armor, for fighting a counterinsurgency conflict. Not that there is anything wrong with that since that is what we have had to deal with over the last decade but it makes me wonder how long it would take to train the tactics needed on the European battlefield to our troops. I'm not even sure there are enough senior officers now with the training for a conflict in Europe. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:01:41 PM EDT
[#13]
Considering the gals I met?
My dick says yes. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:04:14 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Putin would not have lifted a finger agsinst Bush to begin with. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We would push them back to their current borders. FBHO doesn't want war, he will do what he can to avoid it. Its in putins hands now. Bush would have been in Russia kicking ass. Putin would not have lifted a finger agsinst Bush to begin with. So Bush was cool with the Georgian incursion? |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:05:39 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
I got to thinking today about the unlikely event of a war in Europe pitting NATO against Russia and I started to wonder if we could pull off a victory. For the last ten years we have been at war in Iraq and Afghanistan so we have a lot of combat hardened troops but it is a different type of combat than would be fought in Europe. During the current conflicts we had to change our training and doctrine from heavy armored maneuver in division or larger elements to more small unit combat where company or maybe battalion sized elements are doing the fighting. We haven't used armor in a maneuver role since the invasion of Iraq. Mechanized infantry has even gone lighter. My question is if Russia decided to make a plat further west than Ukraine, would out military still have the expertise in armored warfare to push the Russians back to Moscow? I think there's still a decent amount of senior NCO's with that type of experience. I'll tell you my unit (aviation) is shifting to that type of fight with a quickness. EDIT: I never underestimate the enemy, but we would DESTROY Russia. It would come at a cost that we are no longer used to though. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:06:19 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So Bush was cool with the Georgian incursion? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
We would push them back to their current borders. FBHO doesn't want war, he will do what he can to avoid it. Its in putins hands now. Bush would have been in Russia kicking ass. Putin would not have lifted a finger agsinst Bush to begin with. So Bush was cool with the Georgian incursion? Georgia still annoys me. IIRC, we had defense treaties with them. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:07:14 PM EDT
[#17]
Don't forget, we've got a billion screaming Chinamen on our side.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:12:50 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't forget, we've got a billion screaming Chinamen on our side. I thought there were 1.2 billion chinamen? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:13:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought there were 1.2 billion chinamen? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Don't forget, we've got a billion screaming Chinamen on our side. I thought there were 1.2 billion chinamen? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile There were. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:16:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ivan doesn't stand a chance. No kidding. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:16:45 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Best not retire the A-10 Warthog just yet..... 
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:17:27 PM EDT
[#22]
It would be different to go against a foe with a credible Air to Air and SAM threat. That, and no fucking snackbars.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:17:41 PM EDT
[#23]
Why would we need to get involved? You don't think the western European countries to take care of themselves?
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:20:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Obama and his gang will avert war with a heroic agreement to return all former Soviet territory to Russia and all former Warsaw Pact countries back under Russian control.
He will then collect an unprecedented second Nobel Peace Prize. (Those Nobel folks LOVE it when people suffer at the hands of their selectees.) TC |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:20:58 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think there's still a decent amount of senior NCO's with that type of experience. I'll tell you my unit (aviation) is shifting to that type of fight with a quickness. EDIT: I never underestimate the enemy, but we would DESTROY Russia. It would come at a cost that we are no longer used to though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I got to thinking today about the unlikely event of a war in Europe pitting NATO against Russia and I started to wonder if we could pull off a victory. For the last ten years we have been at war in Iraq and Afghanistan so we have a lot of combat hardened troops but it is a different type of combat than would be fought in Europe. During the current conflicts we had to change our training and doctrine from heavy armored maneuver in division or larger elements to more small unit combat where company or maybe battalion sized elements are doing the fighting. We haven't used armor in a maneuver role since the invasion of Iraq. Mechanized infantry has even gone lighter. My question is if Russia decided to make a plat further west than Ukraine, would out military still have the expertise in armored warfare to push the Russians back to Moscow? I think there's still a decent amount of senior NCO's with that type of experience. I'll tell you my unit (aviation) is shifting to that type of fight with a quickness. EDIT: I never underestimate the enemy, but we would DESTROY Russia. It would come at a cost that we are no longer used to though. I would imagine senior NCO's would be the only ones with that experience. It would take time to train the guys that would actually be doing the fighting. What really scares me is the number of general officers with experience to lead that kind of conflict that have either retired or been forced out. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:22:22 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would we need to get involved? You don't think the western European countries to take care of themselves? Do you understand alliances? We would really have no choice if we want to stay globally relevant. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:23:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Won't happen. This isn't 1914 or 1939. All the players have way too much to lose, not the least of which includes the possibility of a nuclear exchange. The Europeans and Russians have a living memory of all out war and the destruction wreaked by WW one and two.
There are plenty of back-room deals that can and will be made to keep everyone sane. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:24:26 PM EDT
[#28]
Assuming it didn't go nuke we would bitch slap the Russians.
I think people forget just how far Russia's economy has slid. An US/EU coalition would leave Russia a bombed out shell. There would be casualties, no doubt. It be no Gulf War but Russia doesn't have the economy or logistical infrastructure to fight a big boy war. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:24:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would be different to go against a foe with a credible Air to Air and SAM threat. That, and no fucking snackbars. SAM yes. But their air power is almost a joke. They don't have enough money to properly train their pilots and maintain their equipment. We would make short work of their air force. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:25:20 PM EDT
[#30]
We would win, eventually. The cost would be much higher than we've seen since WWII.
Do we even have POMCUS sites anymore? |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:26:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Won't happen. This isn't 1914 or 1939. All the players have way too much to lose, not the least of which includes the possibility of a nuclear exchange. There are plenty of back-room deals that can and will be made to keep everyone sane. I agree that it is a possibility that is remote in the extreme but the question just popped into my head today as I was using the only training that the military ever gave me that I have ever used outside the military. I was running a buffer. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:27:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you understand alliances? We would really have no choice if we want to stay globally relevant. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why would we need to get involved? You don't think the western European countries to take care of themselves? Do you understand alliances? We would really have no choice if we want to stay globally relevant. We could be involved but there is no need for us to continue to do the heavy lifting. The US could take on a similar role such as our NATO allies in Afghanistan. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:31:49 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know that Russia pf today is not even comparable to the old Soviet Union but it seems that we may have given up a lot of our expertise in fighting a large scale war,which would include massed armor, for fighting a counterinsurgency conflict. Not that there is anything wrong with that since that is what we have had to deal with over the last decade but it makes me wonder how long it would take to train the tactics needed on the European battlefield to our troops. I'm not even sure there are enough senior officers now with the training for a conflict in Europe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Russia is a regional power at best. Their supply lines only run as far as the fuel tank of a Ural truck,from the last filling station before you cross the Russian boarder. No real NCO corps, still use conscripts, dated equipment. The Russians shameful performance in Chechnya and Georgia are good examples of their blundering. I know that Russia pf today is not even comparable to the old Soviet Union but it seems that we may have given up a lot of our expertise in fighting a large scale war,which would include massed armor, for fighting a counterinsurgency conflict. Not that there is anything wrong with that since that is what we have had to deal with over the last decade but it makes me wonder how long it would take to train the tactics needed on the European battlefield to our troops. I'm not even sure there are enough senior officers now with the training for a conflict in Europe. Its not like the Russians have this experience either. While Company level officers might be a bit behind the times i am confident our field and General grade officers are educated in large scale armored warfare. A type of warfare I have serious reservations about the. Russians ability to wage. Most importantly i am confident in the superior logistics ability of our forces. Logistics projected to the other side of the world on 2 fronts is something we have a great deal of experience in. Logistics wins wars. Putin is bluffing because he knows Obama is weak. Putin will bully and cajole what he can. But he doesn't want war either. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:33:26 PM EDT
[#34]
I'm thinking that we COULD WIN, but.....
When Putin see's that he's gonna lose, he's gonna go for the "EASY BUTTON", and launch....... THEN What's Obummer Gonna do then???? He's gonna poop his pants, and freeze......While the Few Generals/Admirals who aren't "YES" Men try and salvage the situation..... Flush the Bombers.....Oh, wait, we don't have any Bombers to flush anymore..... About all we'll have left are a few token Peacekeepers and Minutemen, and some Trident's, and there we go..... |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:37:19 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We would push them back to their current borders. FBHO doesn't want war, he will do what he can to avoid it. Its in putins hands now. Bush would have been in Russia kicking ass. If you really think Bush would have been in Russia over this piddly shit, you've lost it. Or never had it. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:38:32 PM EDT
[#36]
Gotcha. It's an interesting question and, I think, and an AWESOME subject for future warfare sims.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree that it is a possibility that is remote in the extreme but the question just popped into my head today as I was using the only training that the military ever gave me that I have ever used outside the military. I was running a buffer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Won't happen. This isn't 1914 or 1939. All the players have way too much to lose, not the least of which includes the possibility of a nuclear exchange. There are plenty of back-room deals that can and will be made to keep everyone sane. I agree that it is a possibility that is remote in the extreme but the question just popped into my head today as I was using the only training that the military ever gave me that I have ever used outside the military. I was running a buffer. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:41:07 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its not like the Russians have this experience either. While Company level officers might be a bit behind the times i am confident our field and General grade officers are educated in large scale armored warfare. A type of warfare I have serious reservations about the. Russians ability to wage. Most importantly i am confident in the superior logistics ability of our forces. Logistics projected to the other side of the world on 2 fronts is something we have a great deal of experience in. Logistics wins wars. Putin is bluffing because he knows Obama is weak. Putin will bully and cajole what he can. But he doesn't want war either. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Russia is a regional power at best. Their supply lines only run as far as the fuel tank of a Ural truck,from the last filling station before you cross the Russian boarder. No real NCO corps, still use conscripts, dated equipment. The Russians shameful performance in Chechnya and Georgia are good examples of their blundering. I know that Russia pf today is not even comparable to the old Soviet Union but it seems that we may have given up a lot of our expertise in fighting a large scale war,which would include massed armor, for fighting a counterinsurgency conflict. Not that there is anything wrong with that since that is what we have had to deal with over the last decade but it makes me wonder how long it would take to train the tactics needed on the European battlefield to our troops. I'm not even sure there are enough senior officers now with the training for a conflict in Europe. Its not like the Russians have this experience either. While Company level officers might be a bit behind the times i am confident our field and General grade officers are educated in large scale armored warfare. A type of warfare I have serious reservations about the. Russians ability to wage. Most importantly i am confident in the superior logistics ability of our forces. Logistics projected to the other side of the world on 2 fronts is something we have a great deal of experience in. Logistics wins wars. Putin is bluffing because he knows Obama is weak. Putin will bully and cajole what he can. But he doesn't want war either. I agree that logistics win wars and we have logistics down to not only a science but an art. How many armored divisions do we now have anyway? Seems like I read that we only have one. I hope that ain't so. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 8:01:39 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree that logistics win wars and we have logistics down to not only a science but an art. How many armored divisions do we now have anyway? Seems like I read that we only have one. I hope that ain't so. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Russia is a regional power at best. Their supply lines only run as far as the fuel tank of a Ural truck,from the last filling station before you cross the Russian boarder. No real NCO corps, still use conscripts, dated equipment. The Russians shameful performance in Chechnya and Georgia are good examples of their blundering. I know that Russia pf today is not even comparable to the old Soviet Union but it seems that we may have given up a lot of our expertise in fighting a large scale war,which would include massed armor, for fighting a counterinsurgency conflict. Not that there is anything wrong with that since that is what we have had to deal with over the last decade but it makes me wonder how long it would take to train the tactics needed on the European battlefield to our troops. I'm not even sure there are enough senior officers now with the training for a conflict in Europe. Its not like the Russians have this experience either. While Company level officers might be a bit behind the times i am confident our field and General grade officers are educated in large scale armored warfare. A type of warfare I have serious reservations about the. Russians ability to wage. Most importantly i am confident in the superior logistics ability of our forces. Logistics projected to the other side of the world on 2 fronts is something we have a great deal of experience in. Logistics wins wars. Putin is bluffing because he knows Obama is weak. Putin will bully and cajole what he can. But he doesn't want war either. I agree that logistics win wars and we have logistics down to not only a science but an art. How many armored divisions do we now have anyway? Seems like I read that we only have one. I hope that ain't so. No question we would hand them their butts. And at a far lower cost than people think. The russkies look ok on paper, their equipment isn't all bad but they don't know how to use what they have effectively. They would be forced to rely on huge amounts of conscripts to cover the gap and any war would probably have lots of european support. Not a cakewalk but would end up being a huge embarrassment for the russians and could possibly cause their government to collapse. Too bad obama lacks the balls to seize the opportunity. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 8:05:21 PM EDT
[#39]
With respect to logistics in the event of a shooting war, I might not be as confident as everyone else. It's been 70 years since we've had our shipping routes contested. I know we have a significant naval advantage, but can we guarantee that those boats are all going to arrive intact? What happens to an armored division's readiness if a couple of their ships don't make it?
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Posted: 4/19/2014 8:07:33 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We are probably not ready but we weren't ready for WWII either and we made it work. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 8:12:54 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you understand alliances? We would really have no choice if we want to stay globally relevant. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why would we need to get involved? You don't think the western European countries to take care of themselves? Do you understand alliances? We would really have no choice if we want to stay globally relevant. Send in a couple of companies and call it good. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 8:13:04 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Think about the difference between the WWII generation and this one... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We are probably not ready but we weren't ready for WWII either and we made it work. Wars have a way of waking up the "terrible giant" asleep in the blood, the leftovers from a long line of men for whom killing man and beast was the basic fact of survival. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 8:13:12 PM EDT
[#43]
I don't know why people keep fantasizing about a conventional war in Europe. It will never happen. Any conventional attack on NATO or Russia would turn into a nuclear war almost immediately. The idea that the US and Russia would engage in some kind of Battle of Stalingrad scenario or have battalions of tanks shooting it out in the Ardennes Forest is comical. We live in the Nuclear Age. WWIII will last about 45 minutes and be punctuated by mushroom clouds.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 8:13:39 PM EDT
[#44]
IDK..take out their oil fields and I'd guess they would be done. Mean while the rest of the world's economy goes down the shitter with $300.00/barrel of oil.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 8:17:39 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know why people keep fantasizing about a conventional war in Europe. It will never happen. Any conventional attack on NATO or Russia would turn into a nuclear war almost immediately. The idea that the US and Russia would engage in some kind of Battle of Stalingrad scenario or have battalions of tanks shooting it out in the Ardennes Forest is comical. We live in the Nuclear Age. WWIII will last about 45 minutes and be punctuated by mushroom clouds. I realize there is a bit of fantasizing going on, but do the principles of MAD no longer apply? If Russia strolls into Poland, do we let loose the nukes? I kind of doubt it. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 8:30:54 PM EDT
[#46]
I hope not. I just finished setting up my plate carrier and war belt in coyote tan and don't want to have to buy a whole new set up to me cool.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 8:33:01 PM EDT
[#47]
No. Not ready. Weak military and weak leader.
Even if we did win we would lose in the long run. We would send tons of money to rebuild and oil prices would go up even higher. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 8:39:32 PM EDT
[#48]
lol
russian military is garbage. Unless they go nuclear, the US would wipe the floor with them without even breaking a sweat. The only things they are good at is posing for Putin propaganda, and pushing around pathetically weak little shitass countries on their borders |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 9:24:43 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There were. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Don't forget, we've got a billion screaming Chinamen on our side. I thought there were 1.2 billion chinamen? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile There were. *throws whiskey in fire* |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 11:43:11 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. Not ready. Weak military and weak leader. Even if we did win we would lose in the long run. We would send tons of money to rebuild and oil prices would go up even higher. Weak military? Name a military that comes even close to the capabilities of the US? Nobody comes even close. |
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