User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 5:47:45 AM EDT
[#1]
Sound is off on the computer so I don't disturb anyone, but from what I could tell:
The video was posted by 'Low Pay is not OK'. Uses two former managers to back up the claims. McD managers make $30k to $50k and can get up to $20k bonuses (from just a few seconds of research). Are those 'Former Managers' still employed somewhere? Why aren't they still at McDonalds ($30k to $70k total with reasonably good benefits for management is pretty good money)? To evaluate how truthful they are, we'd need to know. I take it from the posts above, that it may not be McD corporate...but could be franchises? AFARR |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 6:21:11 AM EDT
[#2]
DERP! Just derp.
Employers have legal responsibilities toward their employees. That is the minimum standard. They also have ethical obligations, which are not necessarily spelled out in regulations, but exist in a sensible society none the less. Wage employees need to understand what they are exchanging for their pay. They should be brought up to guard that value, and over time, make their time more valuable. The trouble with the "quit if you don't like it" theory is that many or most hourly minimum wage employees in lots of jobs are jammed tight into a corner and fear that they will lose what little they can get. They have enough income for subsistence, barely, and realistic opportunity to improve their situation is out of reach, especially if their bad decisions earlier add baggage that can't be set aside. Regulatory and tax pressure on employers make the motivation for many to simply reduce their business to a soul less money making machine with little of that personal "we're all family" care many advertise. Franchise businesses are often owned by a person that operates the business from afar, not on site. Truth is, if there is a "family" relationship amongst the employees, that atmosphere originates amongst them and not the business owner or its managers. Ask the manager of a restaurant or fast food dump about his number one problem. It will be employee turn over. Do the reasons matter? Probably, low turn over would reduce cost of operation and improve profit. Is it possible to reduce turnover? Probably, but not with the current wage plus tip structure, or unethical treatment of employees. The issue is way more complicated than can be laid out in a post on a web forum, but we can certainly observe the corrosion shot through our society right here. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 7:36:44 AM EDT
[#3]
Nothing new. It's been a long time since I've been in that environment, but it was quite common for managers to clock people out before they finished. Not legal, but it happened all the time.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 7:39:52 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If minimum wage laws didn't exist, sure. I think they'd be a great way to pay employees. Per burger or per customer. Why should they get paid if there isn't revenue being generated? They'd do well to increase sales by providing a quality experience. You scare your customers away? You don't get paid. But ultimately, it's up to the employer to decide the terms of employment and employees to agree or not agree. Oh, and watch out for the fine print. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So because someone is on the clock at the job, but not actively serving a customer because no one is currently in the store, then they should not be paid? Uhhg, Libertarians... retards. If minimum wage laws didn't exist, sure. I think they'd be a great way to pay employees. Per burger or per customer. Why should they get paid if there isn't revenue being generated? They'd do well to increase sales by providing a quality experience. You scare your customers away? You don't get paid. But ultimately, it's up to the employer to decide the terms of employment and employees to agree or not agree. Oh, and watch out for the fine print. They should get paid because their agreement w/ the buisness owner is x $$$ per hour. When business is slow the managers job is to cut staff to the appropriate level, not change the hours on their timecard. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 7:42:27 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meh, I used to do this frequently at a couple restaurants I've managed (not fast food). Pretty common in the industry though. Cooks getting close to OT and all the work not finished, I tell them to clock out and go home.. They look at me, go clock out, and then go back to work  I've told servers that they have to clock out and go home because they're about to hit OT, they clock out and continue working for tips only. With the introduction to Obamacare, this is going to become an extreme problem for ALL restaurants. ETA: I even used to do that if labor was running high... most were good sports about working off the clock, just buy them a couple beers and dinner. The ones that had a problem with it just got their shifts reduced down to one night a week until they quit. How Christian of you. Happy Easter! |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 7:46:12 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's an agreement. Agreements usually have terms. Terms like - you work the hours agreed upon between you and your manager. You come in early, stay late, come in on an off day, work OT - without manager's approval, then don't expect to get paid. It's still their rules. If you could get paid just for clocking in, people would work early, late, all the freaking time they'd be on the clock. There are still rules to be followed. Perhaps my first post was a little harsh though.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So employers are not required to follow labor laws? Employers should be free to steal from employees and if the employee finds out their only solution should be to quit? Employment isn't an agreement between to entities to exchange one thing for another? It's an agreement. Agreements usually have terms. Terms like - you work the hours agreed upon between you and your manager. You come in early, stay late, come in on an off day, work OT - without manager's approval, then don't expect to get paid. It's still their rules. If you could get paid just for clocking in, people would work early, late, all the freaking time they'd be on the clock. There are still rules to be followed. Perhaps my first post was a little harsh though. Most places you're required to be at work on time. You're normally allowed to clock in within a certain time of your scheduled time (10 min is common) and are required to clock out at the end of your scheduled shift unless authorized additional time by your supervisor. In a business that's following the law, if you violate these rules they pay you and then either write you up or fire you. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 7:53:12 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Their business, their rules. If employees want to be compensated appropriately, they should find work elsewhere. No one is forcing them to work at McDonalds.... they voluntarily stay and put up with it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 7:53:46 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So how does it feel being a piece of shit thief? Shit like this is why I stay out of the EE. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Meh, I used to do this frequently at a couple restaurants I've managed (not fast food). Pretty common in the industry though. Cooks getting close to OT and all the work not finished, I tell them to clock out and go home.. They look at me, go clock out, and then go back to work
I've told servers that they have to clock out and go home because they're about to hit OT, they clock out and continue working for tips only. With the introduction to Obamacare, this is going to become an extreme problem for ALL restaurants. ETA: I even used to do that if labor was running high... most were good sports about working off the clock, just buy them a couple beers and dinner. The ones that had a problem with it just got their shifts reduced down to one night a week until they quit. So how does it feel being a piece of shit thief? Shit like this is why I stay out of the EE. Borderline personal attack. How am I a thief? Never once did I ever force someone to work off the clock, they always offered and worked voluntarily. It was pretty easy for them to understand that if they can't get their job done in a timely manner, I would soon have to find someone that could and for cheaper. Either they're out of 30 minutes of pay here and there, or they're out of whole entire paychecks. None of them ever really gave a shit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 7:54:25 AM EDT
[#9]
LOL flat rate for burger flippers...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 7:54:44 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How Christian of you. Happy Easter! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Meh, I used to do this frequently at a couple restaurants I've managed (not fast food). Pretty common in the industry though. Cooks getting close to OT and all the work not finished, I tell them to clock out and go home.. They look at me, go clock out, and then go back to work
I've told servers that they have to clock out and go home because they're about to hit OT, they clock out and continue working for tips only. With the introduction to Obamacare, this is going to become an extreme problem for ALL restaurants. ETA: I even used to do that if labor was running high... most were good sports about working off the clock, just buy them a couple beers and dinner. The ones that had a problem with it just got their shifts reduced down to one night a week until they quit. How Christian of you. Happy Easter! Jokes on you, I'm an atheist. Happy Zombie Day. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 7:57:44 AM EDT
[#11]
Every Micky D's around here is busy as can be and they are working there ass's off. If there are working then they should be payed and if it runs in to overtime they should be payed
for overtime. You're a piece of work.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
You really think McDonalds workers are working on the clock every second they're there? Are they really "earning" that money? Have you ever been to McDonalds? That shit takes forever.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Their business, their rules. If employees want to be compensated appropriately, they should find work elsewhere. No one is forcing them to work at McDonalds.... they voluntarily stay and put up with it. lol now that is dumb, even for GD. Everyone should be paid their agreed upon wage for every second they are on the clock. You really think McDonalds workers are working on the clock every second they're there? Are they really "earning" that money? Have you ever been to McDonalds? That shit takes forever. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 8:02:00 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Borderline personal attack. How am I a thief? Never once did I ever force someone to work off the clock, they always offered and worked voluntarily. It was pretty easy for them to understand that if they can't get their job done in a timely manner, I would soon have to find someone that could and for cheaper. Either they're out of 30 minutes of pay here and there, or they're out of whole entire paychecks. None of them ever really gave a shit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Meh, I used to do this frequently at a couple restaurants I've managed (not fast food). Pretty common in the industry though. Cooks getting close to OT and all the work not finished, I tell them to clock out and go home.. They look at me, go clock out, and then go back to work
I've told servers that they have to clock out and go home because they're about to hit OT, they clock out and continue working for tips only. With the introduction to Obamacare, this is going to become an extreme problem for ALL restaurants. ETA: I even used to do that if labor was running high... most were good sports about working off the clock, just buy them a couple beers and dinner. The ones that had a problem with it just got their shifts reduced down to one night a week until they quit. So how does it feel being a piece of shit thief? Shit like this is why I stay out of the EE. Borderline personal attack. How am I a thief? Never once did I ever force someone to work off the clock, they always offered and worked voluntarily. It was pretty easy for them to understand that if they can't get their job done in a timely manner, I would soon have to find someone that could and for cheaper. Either they're out of 30 minutes of pay here and there, or they're out of whole entire paychecks. None of them ever really gave a shit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 8:04:38 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd like to hear what the two individuals featured in the video would have to say in detail, if they were deposed under oath. This. If they truly were not being paid for hours worked, then that is fraud on the part of the employer, already illegal and actionable. No new laws needed. Although, I do have my doubts that what they claim happened, happened. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 8:07:28 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
if you clock in before your scheduled shift, and i didnt ask you to come in early, i aint paying you shit. same goes for if you stay late for no reason. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Everyone should be paid their agreed upon wage for every second they are on the clock. if you clock in before your scheduled shift, and i didnt ask you to come in early, i aint paying you shit. same goes for if you stay late for no reason. Also a valid point. Is it possible that the claimants were clocking in early and out late to pad their hours? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 8:08:52 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most places you're required to be at work on time. You're normally allowed to clock in within a certain time of your scheduled time (10 min is common) and are required to clock out at the end of your scheduled shift unless authorized additional time by your supervisor. In a business that's following the law, if you violate these rules they pay you and then either write you up or fire you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So employers are not required to follow labor laws? Employers should be free to steal from employees and if the employee finds out their only solution should be to quit? Employment isn't an agreement between to entities to exchange one thing for another? It's an agreement. Agreements usually have terms. Terms like - you work the hours agreed upon between you and your manager. You come in early, stay late, come in on an off day, work OT - without manager's approval, then don't expect to get paid. It's still their rules. If you could get paid just for clocking in, people would work early, late, all the freaking time they'd be on the clock. There are still rules to be followed. Perhaps my first post was a little harsh though. Most places you're required to be at work on time. You're normally allowed to clock in within a certain time of your scheduled time (10 min is common) and are required to clock out at the end of your scheduled shift unless authorized additional time by your supervisor. In a business that's following the law, if you violate these rules they pay you and then either write you up or fire you. Exactly. I've had employees who, once they realized I was following the law, decided to game the system by clocking in early or out late to generate OT pay. The worst were the ones who dragged their work out towards closing time, and then claimed that they had to stay late (and go on OT) in order to get everything done. When I told them that wasn't allowed, they pitched a fit about how overworked they were. I knew they weren't, they knew they weren't, but they also bet that there wasn't much I could do short of firing them. Some of them rolled those dice and lost. For everyone here who believes that only the employer can steal from an employee under the wage and hour laws, I've seen just the opposite. These employees knew that we were trying to follow the law, and thought they could take advantage of that fact. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 8:10:57 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You should be very careful with what you say. I would think could be considered admissible. It's also very unethical. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Meh, I used to do this frequently at a couple restaurants I've managed (not fast food). Pretty common in the industry though. Cooks getting close to OT and all the work not finished, I tell them to clock out and go home.. They look at me, go clock out, and then go back to work
I've told servers that they have to clock out and go home because they're about to hit OT, they clock out and continue working for tips only. With the introduction to Obamacare, this is going to become an extreme problem for ALL restaurants. ETA: I even used to do that if labor was running high... most were good sports about working off the clock, just buy them a couple beers and dinner. The ones that had a problem with it just got their shifts reduced down to one night a week until they quit. So how does it feel being a piece of shit thief? Shit like this is why I stay out of the EE. Borderline personal attack. How am I a thief? Never once did I ever force someone to work off the clock, they always offered and worked voluntarily. It was pretty easy for them to understand that if they can't get their job done in a timely manner, I would soon have to find someone that could and for cheaper. Either they're out of 30 minutes of pay here and there, or they're out of whole entire paychecks. None of them ever really gave a shit. Don't really care. Don't work there anymore, haven't in close to a year, and I'm out of that fucking industry for good. I still talk to most of the guys that worked for me. What's funny is you guys getting all hissy pissy, something that I hadn't mentioned yet was that these were the same guys that came to me when I had switched companies asking for a job. So, how much of a bad guy am I? Must be a pretty horrible boss to have that kind of loyalty. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 8:11:05 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Starting pay is 12 an hour? For fast food? Wow, that's pretty darn good. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: McDonalds starting pay here is 12.00 an hr. They cant fill the positions so I doubt the stores around here are cutting peoples hours. Starting pay is 12 an hour? For fast food? Wow, that's pretty darn good. That's $.50 more than starting pay at the printer I work for
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 8:11:57 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also a valid point. Is it possible that the claimants were clocking in early and out late to pad their hours? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Everyone should be paid their agreed upon wage for every second they are on the clock. if you clock in before your scheduled shift, and i didnt ask you to come in early, i aint paying you shit. same goes for if you stay late for no reason. Also a valid point. Is it possible that the claimants were clocking in early and out late to pad their hours? Highly possible. In fact, I'd be willing to put large sums of money on it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 8:14:26 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How Christian of you. Happy Easter! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Meh, I used to do this frequently at a couple restaurants I've managed (not fast food). Pretty common in the industry though. Cooks getting close to OT and all the work not finished, I tell them to clock out and go home.. They look at me, go clock out, and then go back to work
I've told servers that they have to clock out and go home because they're about to hit OT, they clock out and continue working for tips only. With the introduction to Obamacare, this is going to become an extreme problem for ALL restaurants. ETA: I even used to do that if labor was running high... most were good sports about working off the clock, just buy them a couple beers and dinner. The ones that had a problem with it just got their shifts reduced down to one night a week until they quit. How Christian of you. Happy Easter! Yeah, a thief and a poor manager. And then people here really wonder why unions still exist. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 8:18:35 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Borderline personal attack. How am I a thief? Never once did I ever force someone to work off the clock, they always offered and worked voluntarily. It was pretty easy for them to understand that if they can't get their job done in a timely manner, I would soon have to find someone that could and for cheaper. Either they're out of 30 minutes of pay here and there, or they're out of whole entire paychecks. None of them ever really gave a shit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Meh, I used to do this frequently at a couple restaurants I've managed (not fast food). Pretty common in the industry though. Cooks getting close to OT and all the work not finished, I tell them to clock out and go home.. They look at me, go clock out, and then go back to work
I've told servers that they have to clock out and go home because they're about to hit OT, they clock out and continue working for tips only. With the introduction to Obamacare, this is going to become an extreme problem for ALL restaurants. ETA: I even used to do that if labor was running high... most were good sports about working off the clock, just buy them a couple beers and dinner. The ones that had a problem with it just got their shifts reduced down to one night a week until they quit. So how does it feel being a piece of shit thief? Shit like this is why I stay out of the EE. Borderline personal attack. How am I a thief? Never once did I ever force someone to work off the clock, they always offered and worked voluntarily. It was pretty easy for them to understand that if they can't get their job done in a timely manner, I would soon have to find someone that could and for cheaper. Either they're out of 30 minutes of pay here and there, or they're out of whole entire paychecks. None of them ever really gave a shit. You came right out and said they would get their hours cut until they quit if they didn't "play along." Pretty f--king sad. And that DOES make you a thief. You may not have used a gun but you stole your employees time for your own personal gain as management. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 8:19:37 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Their business, their rules. If employees want to be compensated appropriately, they should find work elsewhere. No one is forcing them to work at McDonalds.... they voluntarily stay and put up with it. That's pretty retarded, sir. If you are under someone's employ, they have a duty to pay you for ALL of the work that you do for them whether the employer likes it or not. If they don't like the number of hours you are working, they can adjust your schedule to reduce your hours for future shifts. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 8:21:19 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Exactly. I've had employees who, once they realized I was following the law, decided to game the system by clocking in early or out late to generate OT pay. The worst were the ones who dragged their work out towards closing time, and then claimed that they had to stay late (and go on OT) in order to get everything done. When I told them that wasn't allowed, they pitched a fit about how overworked they were. I knew they weren't, they knew they weren't, but they also bet that there wasn't much I could do short of firing them. Some of them rolled those dice and lost. For everyone here who believes that only the employer can steal from an employee under the wage and hour laws, I've seen just the opposite. These employees knew that we were trying to follow the law, and thought they could take advantage of that fact. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So employers are not required to follow labor laws? Employers should be free to steal from employees and if the employee finds out their only solution should be to quit? Employment isn't an agreement between to entities to exchange one thing for another? It's an agreement. Agreements usually have terms. Terms like - you work the hours agreed upon between you and your manager. You come in early, stay late, come in on an off day, work OT - without manager's approval, then don't expect to get paid. It's still their rules. If you could get paid just for clocking in, people would work early, late, all the freaking time they'd be on the clock. There are still rules to be followed. Perhaps my first post was a little harsh though. Most places you're required to be at work on time. You're normally allowed to clock in within a certain time of your scheduled time (10 min is common) and are required to clock out at the end of your scheduled shift unless authorized additional time by your supervisor. In a business that's following the law, if you violate these rules they pay you and then either write you up or fire you. Exactly. I've had employees who, once they realized I was following the law, decided to game the system by clocking in early or out late to generate OT pay. The worst were the ones who dragged their work out towards closing time, and then claimed that they had to stay late (and go on OT) in order to get everything done. When I told them that wasn't allowed, they pitched a fit about how overworked they were. I knew they weren't, they knew they weren't, but they also bet that there wasn't much I could do short of firing them. Some of them rolled those dice and lost. For everyone here who believes that only the employer can steal from an employee under the wage and hour laws, I've seen just the opposite. These employees knew that we were trying to follow the law, and thought they could take advantage of that fact. It's funny, you just fire these employees, I let these same types keep their jobs with stipulations. To GD however, I'm a horrible person and a "thief." |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 8:23:16 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meh, I used to do this frequently at a couple restaurants I've managed (not fast food). Pretty common in the industry though. Cooks getting close to OT and all the work not finished, I tell them to clock out and go home.. They look at me, go clock out, and then go back to work I've told servers that they have to clock out and go home because they're about to hit OT, they clock out and continue working for tips only. With the introduction to Obamacare, this is going to become an extreme problem for ALL restaurants. ETA: I even used to do that if labor was running high... most were good sports about working off the clock, just buy them a couple beers and dinner. The ones that had a problem with it just got their shifts reduced down to one night a week until they quit. You violated the overtime, record-keeping, and retaliation provisions of the Fair Labor Standards Act. Enjoy your audit.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 8:25:10 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To GD however, I'm a horrible person and a "thief." Don't sell yourself short... |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 8:28:09 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You came right out and said they would get their hours cut until they quit if they didn't "play along." Pretty f--king sad. And that DOES make you a thief. You may not have used a gun but you stole your employees time for your own personal gain as management. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Meh, I used to do this frequently at a couple restaurants I've managed (not fast food). Pretty common in the industry though. Cooks getting close to OT and all the work not finished, I tell them to clock out and go home.. They look at me, go clock out, and then go back to work
I've told servers that they have to clock out and go home because they're about to hit OT, they clock out and continue working for tips only. With the introduction to Obamacare, this is going to become an extreme problem for ALL restaurants. ETA: I even used to do that if labor was running high... most were good sports about working off the clock, just buy them a couple beers and dinner. The ones that had a problem with it just got their shifts reduced down to one night a week until they quit. So how does it feel being a piece of shit thief? Shit like this is why I stay out of the EE. Borderline personal attack. How am I a thief? Never once did I ever force someone to work off the clock, they always offered and worked voluntarily. It was pretty easy for them to understand that if they can't get their job done in a timely manner, I would soon have to find someone that could and for cheaper. Either they're out of 30 minutes of pay here and there, or they're out of whole entire paychecks. None of them ever really gave a shit. You came right out and said they would get their hours cut until they quit if they didn't "play along." Pretty f--king sad. And that DOES make you a thief. You may not have used a gun but you stole your employees time for your own personal gain as management. Yep, and guess what kind of employees they were. I could have fired them for a myriad of different reasons. The shittiest of employees are the ones who bitch the most despite you being extremely lenient on everything else. The only reason they were employed was because I needed a warm body a couple nights a week. You can't help me help you? Well, I'm sorry, this position is no longer available to you. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 8:37:46 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, and guess what kind of employees they were. I could have fired them for a myriad of different reasons. The shittiest of employees are the ones who bitch the most despite you being extremely lenient on everything else. The only reason they were employed was because I needed a warm body a couple nights a week. You can't help me help you? Well, I'm sorry, this position is no longer available to you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Meh, I used to do this frequently at a couple restaurants I've managed (not fast food). Pretty common in the industry though. Cooks getting close to OT and all the work not finished, I tell them to clock out and go home.. They look at me, go clock out, and then go back to work
I've told servers that they have to clock out and go home because they're about to hit OT, they clock out and continue working for tips only. With the introduction to Obamacare, this is going to become an extreme problem for ALL restaurants. ETA: I even used to do that if labor was running high... most were good sports about working off the clock, just buy them a couple beers and dinner. The ones that had a problem with it just got their shifts reduced down to one night a week until they quit. So how does it feel being a piece of shit thief? Shit like this is why I stay out of the EE. Borderline personal attack. How am I a thief? Never once did I ever force someone to work off the clock, they always offered and worked voluntarily. It was pretty easy for them to understand that if they can't get their job done in a timely manner, I would soon have to find someone that could and for cheaper. Either they're out of 30 minutes of pay here and there, or they're out of whole entire paychecks. None of them ever really gave a shit. You came right out and said they would get their hours cut until they quit if they didn't "play along." Pretty f--king sad. And that DOES make you a thief. You may not have used a gun but you stole your employees time for your own personal gain as management. Yep, and guess what kind of employees they were. I could have fired them for a myriad of different reasons. The shittiest of employees are the ones who bitch the most despite you being extremely lenient on everything else. The only reason they were employed was because I needed a warm body a couple nights a week. You can't help me help you? Well, I'm sorry, this position is no longer available to you. Fine, then you fire them for being a poor employee, however, you don't work them off the clock. If one of them had cut themselves or gotten injured seriously "off the clock" they would have a field day with a good lawyer. [hell, even with a crappy one.] You work them on the clock for your employers protection as much as they are owed money for their time working. I work over 5 minutes and it's OT. And the company I work for will never say a single word. 28 years of excellent JPR's tells them I'm worth every dime they pay me. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 8:43:45 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Exactly. I've had employees who, once they realized I was following the law, decided to game the system by clocking in early or out late to generate OT pay. The worst were the ones who dragged their work out towards closing time, and then claimed that they had to stay late (and go on OT) in order to get everything done. When I told them that wasn't allowed, they pitched a fit about how overworked they were. I knew they weren't, they knew they weren't, but they also bet that there wasn't much I could do short of firing them. Some of them rolled those dice and lost. For everyone here who believes that only the employer can steal from an employee under the wage and hour laws, I've seen just the opposite. These employees knew that we were trying to follow the law, and thought they could take advantage of that fact. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So employers are not required to follow labor laws? Employers should be free to steal from employees and if the employee finds out their only solution should be to quit? Employment isn't an agreement between to entities to exchange one thing for another? It's an agreement. Agreements usually have terms. Terms like - you work the hours agreed upon between you and your manager. You come in early, stay late, come in on an off day, work OT - without manager's approval, then don't expect to get paid. It's still their rules. If you could get paid just for clocking in, people would work early, late, all the freaking time they'd be on the clock. There are still rules to be followed. Perhaps my first post was a little harsh though. Most places you're required to be at work on time. You're normally allowed to clock in within a certain time of your scheduled time (10 min is common) and are required to clock out at the end of your scheduled shift unless authorized additional time by your supervisor. In a business that's following the law, if you violate these rules they pay you and then either write you up or fire you. Exactly. I've had employees who, once they realized I was following the law, decided to game the system by clocking in early or out late to generate OT pay. The worst were the ones who dragged their work out towards closing time, and then claimed that they had to stay late (and go on OT) in order to get everything done. When I told them that wasn't allowed, they pitched a fit about how overworked they were. I knew they weren't, they knew they weren't, but they also bet that there wasn't much I could do short of firing them. Some of them rolled those dice and lost. For everyone here who believes that only the employer can steal from an employee under the wage and hour laws, I've seen just the opposite. These employees knew that we were trying to follow the law, and thought they could take advantage of that fact. One of the jokes at work was, "It's easy to tell when it's 15 minutes until break, the restrooms are full." I've had to get a union member out of the line for the clock 20 minutes before end of shift to open a crib so I get a part. He didn't much like it, but it had to be done. Anyway, employees are smart enough to figure out all the old games on their own if there isn't a mentor to teach them. The only difference is the time before it's in play. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 8:52:54 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fine, then you fire them for being a poor employee, however, you don't work them off the clock. If one of them had cut themselves or gotten injured seriously "off the clock" they would have a field day with a good lawyer. [hell, even with a crappy one.] You work them on the clock for your employers protection as much as they are owed money for their time working. I work over 5 minutes and it's OT. And the company I work for will never say a single word. 28 years of excellent JPR's tells them I'm worth every dime they pay me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yep, and guess what kind of employees they were. I could have fired them for a myriad of different reasons. The shittiest of employees are the ones who bitch the most despite you being extremely lenient on everything else. The only reason they were employed was because I needed a warm body a couple nights a week. You can't help me help you? Well, I'm sorry, this position is no longer available to you. Fine, then you fire them for being a poor employee, however, you don't work them off the clock. If one of them had cut themselves or gotten injured seriously "off the clock" they would have a field day with a good lawyer. [hell, even with a crappy one.] You work them on the clock for your employers protection as much as they are owed money for their time working. I work over 5 minutes and it's OT. And the company I work for will never say a single word. 28 years of excellent JPR's tells them I'm worth every dime they pay me. Well aware, and if that event had ever arose, things would have been taken care of. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 8:54:13 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You should be very careful with what you say. I would think could be considered admissible. It's also very unethical. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Meh, I used to do this frequently at a couple restaurants I've managed (not fast food). Pretty common in the industry though. Cooks getting close to OT and all the work not finished, I tell them to clock out and go home.. They look at me, go clock out, and then go back to work
I've told servers that they have to clock out and go home because they're about to hit OT, they clock out and continue working for tips only. With the introduction to Obamacare, this is going to become an extreme problem for ALL restaurants. ETA: I even used to do that if labor was running high... most were good sports about working off the clock, just buy them a couple beers and dinner. The ones that had a problem with it just got their shifts reduced down to one night a week until they quit. So how does it feel being a piece of shit thief? Shit like this is why I stay out of the EE. Borderline personal attack. How am I a thief? Never once did I ever force someone to work off the clock, they always offered and worked voluntarily. It was pretty easy for them to understand that if they can't get their job done in a timely manner, I would soon have to find someone that could and for cheaper. Either they're out of 30 minutes of pay here and there, or they're out of whole entire paychecks. None of them ever really gave a shit. I don't know if labor law has changed or if the rules are different for food service employees, but twenty years ago in hospitals, we were required to pay hourly employees for all hours worked. Period. If they were scheduled to work or allowed (the term was "suffered" ) to work, they got payed. I'm pretty sure this guy would get an epic ass raping if anyone files a complaint with the DOL Wage and Hour Division in his or her state. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 9:05:37 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know if labor law has changed or if the rules are different for food service employees, but twenty years ago in hospitals, we were required to pay hourly employees for all hours worked. Period. If they were scheduled to work or allowed (the term was "suffered" ) to work, they got payed. I'm pretty sure this guy would get an epic ass raping if anyone files a complaint with the DOL Wage and Hour Division in his or her state. The word you're looking for is "paid", which has to do with money. "Payed" has to do with rope. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 9:08:34 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Borderline personal attack. How am I a thief? Never once did I ever force someone to work off the clock, they always offered and worked voluntarily. It was pretty easy for them to understand that if they can't get their job done in a timely manner, I would soon have to find someone that could and for cheaper. Either they're out of 30 minutes of pay here and there, or they're out of whole entire paychecks. None of them ever really gave a shit. See that part in red? If you were the manager in charge and allowed that to go on, you violated wage and hour laws. That is illegal in all 50 states. You are also in violation of tax laws, and trust me, the government will throw the book at you for that too. It doesn't matter that you didn't "force" them to do it. You were in violation of the law for being aware it was happening and allowing it to continue. Good luck arguing otherwise in court - a prosecutor is going to have field day with you. "Everyone else in the industry does it too" is not going to fly as an effective legal defense when you get nailed for this. A lot of people drive 20 miles per hour over the speed limit too. Guess what argument judges have no sympathy for when you try to fight a speeding ticket in court? No offense intended, but you are wrong, and as a piece of friendly advice I would advise you to step back from the situation and realize exactly how wrong you are. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 9:09:06 AM EDT
[#32]
You know, a lot of this bullshit came about just a couple years ago with the introduction to Obamacare, as I had mentioned in my first post in this thread.
Restaurants don't operate with margins that allow all FT and FTE employees to have healthcare provided. Much of the time clock edits are a direct reflection of that. Where I originally had a smaller, but amazing staff that it didn't matter if they hit OT because they were efficient enough to still get their work done and maintain labor percentages, with Obamacare, I could no longer have that. When we began soft rolling Obamacare requirements, we had to double our staff to limit the total number of hours each employee was working in a given month in order to stay within compliance. With that came the dregs and shit employees who would slack at work, not get their jobs done, and piss and moan constantly while eating up the clock. Mind you, that these were the applicants that actually got hired! The rest of the applicant pool was much worse. At the cost to hire and train a new employee, it was sadly more economical to retain a half-assed employee than it was to fire, hire, and train a new one. So stipulations were made. I challenge any of you bitching that I'm a "thief" to operate a restaurant under the same conditions, but doing it your way. Good luck
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 9:10:41 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One of the jokes at work was, "It's easy to tell when it's 15 minutes until break, the restrooms are full." I've had to get a union member out of the line for the clock 20 minutes before end of shift to open a crib so I get a part. He didn't much like it, but it had to be done. Anyway, employees are smart enough to figure out all the old games on their own if there isn't a mentor to teach them. The only difference is the time before it's in play. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So employers are not required to follow labor laws? Employers should be free to steal from employees and if the employee finds out their only solution should be to quit? Employment isn't an agreement between to entities to exchange one thing for another? It's an agreement. Agreements usually have terms. Terms like - you work the hours agreed upon between you and your manager. You come in early, stay late, come in on an off day, work OT - without manager's approval, then don't expect to get paid. It's still their rules. If you could get paid just for clocking in, people would work early, late, all the freaking time they'd be on the clock. There are still rules to be followed. Perhaps my first post was a little harsh though. Most places you're required to be at work on time. You're normally allowed to clock in within a certain time of your scheduled time (10 min is common) and are required to clock out at the end of your scheduled shift unless authorized additional time by your supervisor. In a business that's following the law, if you violate these rules they pay you and then either write you up or fire you. Exactly. I've had employees who, once they realized I was following the law, decided to game the system by clocking in early or out late to generate OT pay. The worst were the ones who dragged their work out towards closing time, and then claimed that they had to stay late (and go on OT) in order to get everything done. When I told them that wasn't allowed, they pitched a fit about how overworked they were. I knew they weren't, they knew they weren't, but they also bet that there wasn't much I could do short of firing them. Some of them rolled those dice and lost. For everyone here who believes that only the employer can steal from an employee under the wage and hour laws, I've seen just the opposite. These employees knew that we were trying to follow the law, and thought they could take advantage of that fact. One of the jokes at work was, "It's easy to tell when it's 15 minutes until break, the restrooms are full." I've had to get a union member out of the line for the clock 20 minutes before end of shift to open a crib so I get a part. He didn't much like it, but it had to be done. Anyway, employees are smart enough to figure out all the old games on their own if there isn't a mentor to teach them. The only difference is the time before it's in play. I have to wonder if we don't work at the same place. I've had to do the same... |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 9:59:08 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But your typical American is so poorly educated in .gov skoolz, they have no idea what a franchise is, or how business works, or the role of the 50 state labor boards. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I guess that depends on the individual franchise owner. It's not like the McD's corporate office is sending emails instructing franchisees to do this kinda crap. There are 13000 locations in the US alone. Gonna have some dumb arse managers with those kinds of numbers
But your typical American is so poorly educated in .gov skoolz, they have no idea what a franchise is, or how business works, or the role of the 50 state labor boards. McD stores can be franchised or corporately owned. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 10:01:17 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The word you're looking for is "paid", which has to do with money. "Payed" has to do with rope. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't know if labor law has changed or if the rules are different for food service employees, but twenty years ago in hospitals, we were required to pay hourly employees for all hours worked. Period. If they were scheduled to work or allowed (the term was "suffered" ) to work, they got payed. I'm pretty sure this guy would get an epic ass raping if anyone files a complaint with the DOL Wage and Hour Division in his or her state. The word you're looking for is "paid", which has to do with money. "Payed" has to do with rope. This is about the tenth time I've gotten called on this here 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 10:27:28 AM EDT
[#36]
All I've got to add to this 'discussion' (and I use this term loosely) is there is a whole bunch of WTF????????? moments in here.
One more: I was considering looking at libertarianism as an option, but after reading these posts I'm convinced they are fucking commies and should be marched straight to the ovens or anything else involving fire. Using them as Japs in re-enactments of Marines burning them alive as they hide in caves would be nice, particularly if Marines get first go at the roasting. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 10:31:05 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Their business, their rules. If employees want to be compensated appropriately, they should find work elsewhere. No one is forcing them to work at McDonalds.... they voluntarily stay and put up with it.  
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 10:41:39 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
DERP! Just derp. Employers have legal responsibilities toward their employees. That is the minimum standard. They also have ethical obligations, which are not necessarily spelled out in regulations, but exist in a sensible society none the less. Wage employees need to understand what they are exchanging for their pay. They should be brought up to guard that value, and over time, make their time more valuable. The trouble with the "quit if you don't like it" theory is that many or most hourly minimum wage employees in lots of jobs are jammed tight into a corner and fear that they will lose what little they can get. They have enough income for subsistence, barely, and realistic opportunity to improve their situation is out of reach, especially if their bad decisions earlier add baggage that can't be set aside. Regulatory and tax pressure on employers make the motivation for many to simply reduce their business to a soul less money making machine with little of that personal "we're all family" care many advertise. Franchise businesses are often owned by a person that operates the business from afar, not on site. Truth is, if there is a "family" relationship amongst the employees, that atmosphere originates amongst them and not the business owner or its managers. Ask the manager of a restaurant or fast food dump about his number one problem. It will be employee turn over. Do the reasons matter? Probably, low turn over would reduce cost of operation and improve profit. Is it possible to reduce turnover? Probably, but not with the current wage plus tip structure, or unethical treatment of employees. The issue is way more complicated than can be laid out in a post on a web forum, but we can certainly observe the corrosion shot through our society right here. Good post. It's worth reading twice and then applying a little thought afterwards. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 10:44:38 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Their business, their rules. If employees want to be compensated appropriately, they should find work elsewhere. No one is forcing them to work at McDonalds.... they voluntarily stay and put up with it. So the employees chose to be stolen from? Your logic makes no sense. Even if the employee quit, mcdonalds would still owe them for the time worked. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 10:45:36 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You really think McDonalds workers are working on the clock every second they're there? Are they really "earning" that money? Have you ever been to McDonalds? That shit takes forever. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Their business, their rules. If employees want to be compensated appropriately, they should find work elsewhere. No one is forcing them to work at McDonalds.... they voluntarily stay and put up with it. lol now that is dumb, even for GD. Everyone should be paid their agreed upon wage for every second they are on the clock. You really think McDonalds workers are working on the clock every second they're there? Are they really "earning" that money? Have you ever been to McDonalds? That shit takes forever. Circular logic-fail is circular. They get paid by the hour, not piecework. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 10:48:48 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once in a while we get some real libertarian thought around here, and the arfcom liberaltarians shit all over it in favor of big government solutions. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Their business, their rules. If employees want to be compensated appropriately, they should find work elsewhere. No one is forcing them to work at McDonalds.... they voluntarily stay and put up with it. Man, you're an asshole. Once in a while we get some real libertarian thought around here, and the arfcom liberaltarians shit all over it in favor of big government solutions. I guess I don't understand. If I sign up to work for $5 an hour and I work 10 hours, I expect to be paid $50 gross. I don't understand what big government has to do with it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 10:50:11 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know, a lot of this bullshit came about just a couple years ago with the introduction to Obamacare, as I had mentioned in my first post in this thread. Restaurants don't operate with margins that allow all FT and FTE employees to have healthcare provided. Much of the time clock edits are a direct reflection of that. Where I originally had a smaller, but amazing staff that it didn't matter if they hit OT because they were efficient enough to still get their work done and maintain labor percentages, with Obamacare, I could no longer have that. When we began soft rolling Obamacare requirements, we had to double our staff to limit the total number of hours each employee was working in a given month in order to stay within compliance. With that came the dregs and shit employees who would slack at work, not get their jobs done, and piss and moan constantly while eating up the clock. Mind you, that these were the applicants that actually got hired! The rest of the applicant pool was much worse. At the cost to hire and train a new employee, it was sadly more economical to retain a half-assed employee than it was to fire, hire, and train a new one. So stipulations were made. I challenge any of you bitching that I'm a "thief" to operate a restaurant under the same conditions, but doing it your way. Good luck Plenty of companies are able to comply with the FLSA. You should sell your company to one who can and apply for one of those dreg jobs you bitch about. I'm sure you'd be the star employee. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 10:50:55 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To some people, yeah. The argument could be made, by an asshole that's never had to work for $8.00 an hour, that those people are suckers and it's their own fault and they deserve nothing for being suckers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A "big government solution" should be required to be fairly compensated for work performed?
To some people, yeah. The argument could be made, by an asshole that's never had to work for $8.00 an hour, that those people are suckers and it's their own fault and they deserve nothing for being suckers. And don't forget how Neitzsche died. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 10:56:34 AM EDT
[#44]
Wait until the Obummercare Employer Mandate takes effect. 28 hours will be the new work week. Everybody will be forced to work as independent contractors to be allowed a full week's work. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 11:00:54 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Plenty of companies are able to comply with the FLSA. You should sell your company to one who can and apply for one of those dreg jobs you bitch about. I'm sure you'd be the star employee. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You know, a lot of this bullshit came about just a couple years ago with the introduction to Obamacare, as I had mentioned in my first post in this thread. Restaurants don't operate with margins that allow all FT and FTE employees to have healthcare provided. Much of the time clock edits are a direct reflection of that. Where I originally had a smaller, but amazing staff that it didn't matter if they hit OT because they were efficient enough to still get their work done and maintain labor percentages, with Obamacare, I could no longer have that. When we began soft rolling Obamacare requirements, we had to double our staff to limit the total number of hours each employee was working in a given month in order to stay within compliance. With that came the dregs and shit employees who would slack at work, not get their jobs done, and piss and moan constantly while eating up the clock. Mind you, that these were the applicants that actually got hired! The rest of the applicant pool was much worse. At the cost to hire and train a new employee, it was sadly more economical to retain a half-assed employee than it was to fire, hire, and train a new one. So stipulations were made. I challenge any of you bitching that I'm a "thief" to operate a restaurant under the same conditions, but doing it your way. Good luck Plenty of companies are able to comply with the FLSA. You should sell your company to one who can and apply for one of those dreg jobs you bitch about. I'm sure you'd be the star employee. Not my company and I quit close to a year ago. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 11:16:25 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Their business, their rules. If employees want to be compensated appropriately, they should find work elsewhere. No one is forcing them to work at McDonalds.... they voluntarily stay and put up with it. Stop trolling. No, what they are doing is called theft. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 11:16:54 AM EDT
[#47]
Sociopath.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 11:29:57 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Their business, their rules. If employees want to be compensated appropriately, they should find work elsewhere. No one is forcing them to work at McDonalds.... they voluntarily stay and put up with it. LOL no. That doesn't work here. When you enter into an employment agreement, you agree to work for a clearly defined amount and type of compensation. Being cheated after the fact is.....being cheated. I want to sell you my car. Thank you for the $15,000 agreed upon price. You came in $5,000 below my original asking price, therefore you're not getting the car and I'm keeping the money. Your fault. Nobody forced you to come buy my car. <---- Your dumb logic, or your post trying to sound cool by over harping on the "their business their rules" motto we go by for legitimate circumstances. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 11:47:02 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know, a lot of this bullshit came about just a couple years ago with the introduction to Obamacare, as I had mentioned in my first post in this thread. Restaurants don't operate with margins that allow all FT and FTE employees to have healthcare provided. Much of the time clock edits are a direct reflection of that. Where I originally had a smaller, but amazing staff that it didn't matter if they hit OT because they were efficient enough to still get their work done and maintain labor percentages, with Obamacare, I could no longer have that. When we began soft rolling Obamacare requirements, we had to double our staff to limit the total number of hours each employee was working in a given month in order to stay within compliance. With that came the dregs and shit employees who would slack at work, not get their jobs done, and piss and moan constantly while eating up the clock. Mind you, that these were the applicants that actually got hired! The rest of the applicant pool was much worse. At the cost to hire and train a new employee, it was sadly more economical to retain a half-assed employee than it was to fire, hire, and train a new one. So stipulations were made. I challenge any of you bitching that I'm a "thief" to operate a restaurant under the same conditions, but doing it your way. Good luck Stipulations. Real code of Ethics you got there. "A man’s character is most evident by how he treats those who are not in a position either to retaliate or reciprocate." - Paul Eldridge |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/20/2014 11:50:20 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Their business, their rules. If employees want to be compensated appropriately, they should find work elsewhere. No one is forcing them to work at McDonalds.... they voluntarily stay and put up with it. Oh for fuck sakes!
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
