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Posted: 4/19/2014 10:29:57 AM EDT
[#1]
Just in time for Easter!
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Posted: 4/19/2014 10:30:06 AM EDT
[#2]
Yawn. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 10:35:10 AM EDT
[#3]
Religion forum?
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Posted: 4/19/2014 10:39:41 AM EDT
[#4]
Methods used to date artifacts are tools of the devil and if it was not in the KJ Bible then it didn't happen.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 10:40:00 AM EDT
[#5]
I don't see why it would matter if Jesus were married or not. The narrative on Jesus was structured by a church that wanted to control Europe through imposed faith and concocted a bunch of nonsense about celibacy being a key to godliness...which doesn't make any sense considering the fact that the guy God called "a man after my own heart" was a sex maniac who organized a hit on his best soldier to cover up his inability to control his own lust, but I digress.
So what if Jesus was married? Having sex isn't a sin. Being married isn't a sin. I don't know why anyone would care. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 10:40:17 AM EDT
[#6]
My religious studies teacher said that "back in the day" the husband and wife would go their separate ways for a year or two after meeting and then get married. She inferred that Mary got knocked up during the time they were separated, even though she wasn't suppose to have sex.
she also called Jesus a zombie, so..... 
Whats ARF think? |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 10:41:43 AM EDT
[#7]
In to watch GD completely fail to understand (or just ignore) this part
Even though the scholarly claim for the discovery was simple—that this constituted evidence that early Christians were engaged in debate over whether Jesus was married, and whether women (who were wives and mothers rather than virgins or celibates) could be his disciples, as opposed to evidence that a historical Jesus was actually married So they can get their butthurt on and stick with this part controversy ensued. This place would have pissed and moaned about the Dead Sea Scrolls until somebody beat them over the head and explained what they actually were, and probably even after that. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 10:43:12 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't see why it would matter if Jesus were married or not. The narrative on Jesus was structured by a church that wanted to control Europe through imposed faith and concocted a bunch of nonsense about celibacy being a key to godliness...which doesn't make any sense considering the fact that the guy God called "a man after my own heart" was a sex maniac who organized a hit on his best soldier to cover up his inability to control his own lust, but I digress. So what if Jesus was married? Having sex isn't a sin. Being married isn't a sin. I don't know why anyone would care. Imagine Jesus having a traceable genetic lineage. Descendants. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 10:43:54 AM EDT
[#9]
Interesting, but from a historical standpoint not worth talking about until they find an independent source.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 10:44:02 AM EDT
[#10]
Why can't you just give it a rest?
And especially, why do you have to troll on Easter weekend? |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 10:44:39 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Imagine Jesus having a traceable genetic lineage. Descendants. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't see why it would matter if Jesus were married or not. The narrative on Jesus was structured by a church that wanted to control Europe through imposed faith and concocted a bunch of nonsense about celibacy being a key to godliness...which doesn't make any sense considering the fact that the guy God called "a man after my own heart" was a sex maniac who organized a hit on his best soldier to cover up his inability to control his own lust, but I digress. So what if Jesus was married? Having sex isn't a sin. Being married isn't a sin. I don't know why anyone would care. Imagine Jesus having a traceable genetic lineage. Descendants. Descendant of Jesus: 
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Posted: 4/19/2014 10:48:12 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why can't you just give it a rest? And especially, why do you have to troll on Easter weekend? Are you kidding? That's the self-aggrieved atheist troll's favorite hunting season. It gives them the other 363 days of the year to whine "Why doesn't anyone like us?" |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 10:49:07 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why can't you just give it a rest? And especially, why do you have to troll on Easter weekend? It insures the most views
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Posted: 4/19/2014 10:49:32 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why can't you just give it a rest? And especially, why do you have to troll on Easter weekend? You expect him to take a day off? I am still confused as to what this text says. Where is the full version? |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 10:50:25 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why can't you just give it a rest? And especially, why do you have to troll on Easter weekend? Sit back and enjoy it 
As I pointed out in my post above, the rigorous historical standards (which incidentally convince even secular researchers that there was a man named Jesus teaching back then) have been ignored. So his faith that this is significant, instead of as meaningful as me saying obama is gay, is actually very amusing given the ideals he has claimed to hold dear. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 10:58:24 AM EDT
[#16]
Here is the interpretation of parts of the lines. It is obviously just the middle of sentences, but the OP will run on the "My wife" part.
Transcription recto (along the fibers ?) 1 ??]?? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ?? [?? 2 ]? ???? ???????? ??? ?? ? [ 3 ] . ???? ?????? ???? ???? ? [? (?) 4 ] . . . [vac. .] / ???? ?? ??? ?????? ???¯ [ 5 ] . . . ?????¯??????? ???? ??? [ 6 ]?? ???????? ????? ???? ?? [ 7 ] ???? ????? ????? ???? ? ?[ 8 ] . ???????? . . [ verso (against the fibers ?) 1 ]??????[ 2 ]????????[ 3 ]?? . ?? . . . [ 4 ]???? ??????[ 5 ]???? . . . . [ 6 ] . [.] . . ??[ KAREN L. KING 133 Translation 1 ] “not [to] me. My mother gave me li[fe . . .” 2 ] .” The disciples said to Jesus, “. [ 3 ] deny. Mary is (not?) worthy of it [ 4 ] . . .” Jesus said to them, “My wife . . [ 5 ] . . . she is able to be my disciple . . [ 6 ] . Let wicked people swell up . . . [ 7] . As for me, I am with her3 in order to . [ 8 ] . an image . . . [ 1 ] my moth[er 2 ] thr[ee 3 ] . . . [ 4 ] forth . . . [ 5–6 ] (untranslatable) |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 10:58:31 AM EDT
[#17]
So maybe tomorrow when we are gathered around the table I will pray to Christ Jesus to bless our food (Lamb roast
 ) and to his wife that I don't get stuck doing the dishes. 
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Posted: 4/19/2014 11:05:02 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You expect him to take a day off? I am still confused as to what this text says. Where is the full version? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why can't you just give it a rest? And especially, why do you have to troll on Easter weekend? You expect him to take a day off? I am still confused as to what this text says. Where is the full version? It is a fragment of a larger document that no longer seems to exist. Gnostic texts mention a wife of Jesus so this is not really news. The Roman Catholic Church is divided into the two major parts. Both recognize the Bishop of Rome as Pope. In the Eastern Latin rite, priests are still allowed to marry. In the Western Latin rite they are not. This prohibition against marriage began in the 11th Century or so. Up until then, all priests were allowed to marry. BTW, If you are an Anglican (Episcopal in the US) priest and married you can become a priest the Roman Catholic Church and keep your wife. I find this all very confusing, but it is really no more so than the gibberish and reasoning that spews forth from the management of most major American corporations these days. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 11:05:59 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Imagine Jesus having a traceable genetic lineage. Descendants. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't see why it would matter if Jesus were married or not. The narrative on Jesus was structured by a church that wanted to control Europe through imposed faith and concocted a bunch of nonsense about celibacy being a key to godliness...which doesn't make any sense considering the fact that the guy God called "a man after my own heart" was a sex maniac who organized a hit on his best soldier to cover up his inability to control his own lust, but I digress. So what if Jesus was married? Having sex isn't a sin. Being married isn't a sin. I don't know why anyone would care. Imagine Jesus having a traceable genetic lineage. Descendants. And just imagine how people would stupidly worship those descendants and elevate them to "god on earth" status. Same reason God hid Moses's bones. This is why the whole descendants from Christ thing has compelled so many people, and exactly why God wouldn't have allwed it. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 11:07:44 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't see why it would matter if Jesus were married or not. The narrative on Jesus was structured by a church that wanted to control Europe through imposed faith and concocted a bunch of nonsense about celibacy being a key to godliness...which doesn't make any sense considering the fact that the guy God called "a man after my own heart" was a sex maniac who organized a hit on his best soldier to cover up his inability to control his own lust, but I digress. So what if Jesus was married? Having sex isn't a sin. Being married isn't a sin. I don't know why anyone would care. Somehow these conspirators overlooked the NT passages that say that priests and bishops are supposed to be married, because they're still in there, along with the admonition that wives are to be subject to their husbands and husbands to love their wives as their own bodies. Paul praised celibacy but said it is better to marry than to burn (with lust). They also left in the fact that Jesus performed his first miracle at a wedding, forbade divorce and never said anything negative about the institution. Quite a conspiracy you have there. As to the antiquity of the Jesus' Wife Gospel, it is dated to between 659 and 869 AD. The oldest copy of a portion of John's Gospel is dated from before 100 AD to 150 AD. The Wife Gospel hardly counts as ancient in terms of Biblical manuscripts. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 11:09:35 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
In September 2012, Hollis professor of divinity Karen L.King made international headlines when she revealed the existence of a fragmentary,apparently ancient, text in which Jesus refers unequivocally to "my wife.” Eventhough the scholarly claim for the discovery was simple—that this constituted evidencethat early Christians were engaged in debate over whether Jesus was married,and whether women (who were wives and mothers rather than virgins or celibates)could be his disciples, as opposed to evidence that a historical Jesus wasactually married—controversy ensued. Some scholars declared the "Gospel ofJesus’s Wife” (GJW) a forgery, while others who had examined the text closelyallowed that it appeared authentic. Late-night television had a field day.
Now the scientific dating of the papyrus and analysis of the ink (whichis not ink at all, but rather lampblack, a pigment often used in ancient Egypt forwriting on papyrus) indicate that both are consistent with an ancient origin. The April 2014 issue of the Harvard Theological Review (HTR)includes King’s article (originally slated to be published in January 2013) discussingthe fragment and its importance to understanding early Christian debates aboutwhether wives and mothers could be disciples of Jesus. The issue also contains acounterpoint by professor ?of Egyptologyand ancient Western Asian studies Leo Depuydt of Brown University, who writesthat he is certain that the text is a modern forgery. Depuydt’s analysis, whichpredates the scientific findings, points out that a forger could have writtenwith lampblack on ancient papyrus. Infrared microspectroscopic analysisof the ink and papyrus, however,found nothing to suggest that they had been "fabricated or modified atdifferent times.” In a rebuttal, King finds Depuydt’s textual analysisunpersuasive. The discovery of previously unknown ancient Christian textsis not unprecedented: a book called the Berlin Codex was discovered at the endof the nineteenth century; a significant collection of Coptic writings wasdiscovered at Nag Hammadi in 1945; and the Tachos Codex was published in theearly 1990s. According to an online Q and A at the Harvard Divinity Schoolwebsite, "These works are valuable in providing evidence for a fuller and moreaccurate history of the diverse forms, practices, and ideas held by Christiansin the earliest centuries after the death of Jesus.” http://harvardmagazine.com/2014/04/jesus-wife-fragment-appears-real I've often wondered how much of that area's history has ended up lost, being used to wipe some shepherd's ass over the millennia. - TS or used as fuel IIRC werent a bunch of the dead Sea Scrolls burned before they were saved? |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 11:10:12 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Imagine Jesus having a traceable genetic lineage. Descendants. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't see why it would matter if Jesus were married or not. The narrative on Jesus was structured by a church that wanted to control Europe through imposed faith and concocted a bunch of nonsense about celibacy being a key to godliness...which doesn't make any sense considering the fact that the guy God called "a man after my own heart" was a sex maniac who organized a hit on his best soldier to cover up his inability to control his own lust, but I digress. So what if Jesus was married? Having sex isn't a sin. Being married isn't a sin. I don't know why anyone would care. Imagine Jesus having a traceable genetic lineage. Descendants. There was a book on that.... The Holy Grail.... |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 11:37:41 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is a fragment of a larger document that no longer seems to exist. Gnostic texts mention a wife of Jesus so this is not really news. The Roman Catholic Church is divided into the two major parts. Both recognize the Bishop of Rome as Pope. In the Eastern Latin rite, priests are still allowed to marry. In the Western Latin rite they are not. This prohibition against marriage began in the 11th Century or so. Up until then, all priests were allowed to marry. BTW, If you are an Anglican (Episcopal in the US) priest and married you can become a priest the Roman Catholic Church and keep your wife. I find this all very confusing, but it is really no more so than the gibberish and reasoning that spews forth from the management of most major American corporations these days. I'm fairly certain that the original prohibition on marriage was not entirely for religious reasons. Political issues and the legal implication of having heirs formed part of it. I also believe that the current prohibition is on priests marrying after they have become ordained, rather than a prohibition on married priests entirely. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 12:38:00 PM EDT
[#24]
I believe that Jesus Christ, the only Begotten Son of God, loves us all. I also don't believe it matters if he was married or not. What I do believe matters is, when it's your time to go, and you will; that you'll wish you had lived a better life in his Fathers name.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 12:46:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Doesn't matter if he was married or not. He lived as man should. I don't know why people attribute the idea of Jesus being married as bad. Are people denoting that marriage is an impure and sinful thing? Jesus was a human being even though he was the son of God. Would it have been wrong for him to love a specific woman and marry her? Sometimes I don't understand people's logic. I think this goes back to Bishop Irenaeus trying to mystify Jesus through his creation of that flawed book we call the modern bible. He ignored so many gospels it isn't funny. There were/are over 30 known Gospels and he ignored the majority of them.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 12:49:16 PM EDT
[#26]
We need to start a prayer group for Troubl3edshooter!
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Posted: 4/19/2014 12:51:00 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Imagine Jesus having a traceable genetic lineage. Descendants. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't see why it would matter if Jesus were married or not. The narrative on Jesus was structured by a church that wanted to control Europe through imposed faith and concocted a bunch of nonsense about celibacy being a key to godliness...which doesn't make any sense considering the fact that the guy God called "a man after my own heart" was a sex maniac who organized a hit on his best soldier to cover up his inability to control his own lust, but I digress. So what if Jesus was married? Having sex isn't a sin. Being married isn't a sin. I don't know why anyone would care. Imagine Jesus having a traceable genetic lineage. Descendants. Which is why those parts were cut from the bible. Marriages were arranged in those days. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 12:55:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which is why those parts were cut from the bible. Marriages were arranged in those days. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't see why it would matter if Jesus were married or not. The narrative on Jesus was structured by a church that wanted to control Europe through imposed faith and concocted a bunch of nonsense about celibacy being a key to godliness...which doesn't make any sense considering the fact that the guy God called "a man after my own heart" was a sex maniac who organized a hit on his best soldier to cover up his inability to control his own lust, but I digress. So what if Jesus was married? Having sex isn't a sin. Being married isn't a sin. I don't know why anyone would care. Imagine Jesus having a traceable genetic lineage. Descendants. Which is why those parts were cut from the bible. Marriages were arranged in those days. I have zero doubt if all the gospels were truly made public, the majority of so-called christians would have huge crisis of faith. Mankind as a whole has a habit of romanticizing history. Not just religion. Look at the revolutionary war as an example. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:02:11 PM EDT
[#29]
I am proud to be a Christian, but I make no illusions-
History is written and recorded by the victors. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:02:59 PM EDT
[#30]
The fragment of text that referred to Jesus' "wife" was written in Egypt. About...700 years after the time of Jesus.
Sorry, but extraordinary claims and all that. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:04:59 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And especially, why do you have to troll on Easter weekend? so, you want special accommodation? |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:05:52 PM EDT
[#33]
Every Easter season, the Murkan media trots out stuff along these lines.
Still scratching my head why every Ramadan, they don't trot out the fact that Mohammed was really a prophet of pedobear. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:07:41 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<a href="http://s735.photobucket.com/user/derekmac_album/media/arfcom%20stuff/fff442c77c329abc664e46d624a2a8387c3a2c09961ef6f82177e107bb26879f_zps498d8edf.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww352/derekmac_album/arfcom%20stuff/fff442c77c329abc664e46d624a2a8387c3a2c09961ef6f82177e107bb26879f_zps498d8edf.jpg</a> Actually DaVinci code has nothing to do with it. Historically, Mary Magdalene has always been a source of controversy. She's even credited at one point as having fled to what today is France with the original "Alabaster Jar" that Jesus used in the last supper. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:09:17 PM EDT
[#35]
He wasn't married. He came into this world for one purpose. To die on the cross as a perfect sacrifice for all our sins. The stuff the Catholics spout about celibacy is a load of crap. I've never seen a verse in the Bible that says Pastors shall not marry and have sex.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:11:39 PM EDT
[#36]
there were many books not included in the bible, who knows what other stories are out there
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:11:43 PM EDT
[#37]
I've always enjoyed reading about almost anything regarding the alternate timelines and forgotten pockets of information . It's sad that so many just cringe and get all upset when anything is presented that questions traditional thinking and current trends/opinions regarding Biblical cannon .
Too many forget this is GD and not the Religious Forum |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:12:40 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He wasn't married. He came into this world for one purpose. To die on the cross as a perfect sacrifice for all our sins. The stuff the Catholics spout about celibacy is a load of crap. I've never seen a verse in the Bible that says Pastors shall not marry and have sex.  |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:13:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every Easter season, the Murkan media trots out stuff along these lines. Still scratching my head why every Ramadan, they don't trot out the fact that Mohammed was really a prophet of pedobear. possibly because that kind of stuff only seems interesting to those with odd obsessions with 'the enemy?' |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:14:31 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They Ain't Either. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
He wasn't married. He came into this world for one purpose. To die on the cross as a perfect sacrifice for all our sins. The stuff the Catholics spout about celibacy is a load of crap. I've never seen a verse in the Bible that says Pastors shall not marry and have sex. 
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:15:38 PM EDT
[#41]
Fake. Not the first time for her either. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:16:01 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He wasn't married. He came into this world for one purpose. To die on the cross as a perfect sacrifice for all our sins. The stuff the Catholics spout about celibacy is a load of crap. I've never seen a verse in the Bible that says Pastors shall not marry and have sex. The Church doesn't state that clerical celibacy is a Bible-based doctrine. Rather, it's a spiritual discipline, dumbass. Go dance with a snake. Or better yet, read a book. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:16:16 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: He wasn't married. He came into this world for one purpose. To die on the cross as a perfect sacrifice for all our sins. The stuff the Catholics spout about celibacy is a load of crap. I've never seen a verse in the Bible that says Pastors shall not marry and have sex. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:21:29 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have zero doubt if all the gospels were truly made public, the majority of so-called christians would have huge crisis of faith. Mankind as a whole has a habit of romanticizing history. Not just religion. Look at the revolutionary war as an example. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't see why it would matter if Jesus were married or not. The narrative on Jesus was structured by a church that wanted to control Europe through imposed faith and concocted a bunch of nonsense about celibacy being a key to godliness...which doesn't make any sense considering the fact that the guy God called "a man after my own heart" was a sex maniac who organized a hit on his best soldier to cover up his inability to control his own lust, but I digress. So what if Jesus was married? Having sex isn't a sin. Being married isn't a sin. I don't know why anyone would care. Imagine Jesus having a traceable genetic lineage. Descendants. Which is why those parts were cut from the bible. Marriages were arranged in those days. I have zero doubt if all the gospels were truly made public, the majority of so-called christians would have huge crisis of faith. Mankind as a whole has a habit of romanticizing history. Not just religion. Look at the revolutionary war as an example. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:22:10 PM EDT
[#45]
They're spooling that J-79 up, just like we mentioned in the other thread.
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why can't you just give it a rest? And especially, why do you have to troll on Easter weekend? |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:25:26 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
possibly because that kind of stuff only seems interesting to those with odd obsessions with 'the enemy?' Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Every Easter season, the Murkan media trots out stuff along these lines. Still scratching my head why every Ramadan, they don't trot out the fact that Mohammed was really a prophet of pedobear. possibly because that kind of stuff only seems interesting to those with odd obsessions with 'the enemy?' Well I guess that explains why you do the things you do. We're "the enemy". |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:26:34 PM EDT
[#47]
Without regard to whatever beliefs we bring to the table--theist or atheist or whatever--I would be interested to hear your response to these questions:
1. Should this fragment influence what we believe about the historical Jesus (again, irrespective of belief or non-belief in the deity of Jesus)? 2. Why did you answer the way you answered? |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:27:50 PM EDT
[#48]
The most important question in the universe:
Who is Jesus Christ? This controversy over Jesus being married is designed to produce a specific answer to that question. On one side He is very God in the flesh penetrating our sin and our sinful world so that He could be our redemptive substitutionary sacrifice and declare to the maximum possibility just what God the Father truly is like. Jesus said, that His purpose was to glorify His Father and that is exactly what He did. And He did it fully and completely. On the other side He is a spiritual guru teaching a moral code that is to be aspired to by all of us but still very and ONLY human. Him having a wife is designed to give this definition credibility. Who is Jesus Christ is the most important question on the planet. He is Lord, liar, or lunatic. Patrick |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:36:20 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why can't you just give it a rest? And especially, why do you have to troll on Easter weekend? It says something that in this thread, that isn't even one page long, we've got: Troubl3shooter Sturmgeist 2minkey That's pretty much the starting lineup of Arfcom trolls. Don't sweat it Old _Painless. Someday they will reap what they sow. And by that I mean that at some point in the future their tallywackers will get caught in a grain thresher. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:36:47 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why can't you just give it a rest? And especially, why do you have to troll on Easter weekend? |
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