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Posted: 4/15/2014 8:32:15 PM EDT
[#1]
a dickhead.
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Posted: 4/15/2014 8:33:17 PM EDT
[#2]
It used to be 18, but it was shortened to 16 so the gov could sell surplus rifles with 16" barrels. I read (here) it was for M1 Carbines, but they have 18 inch barrels
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Posted: 4/15/2014 8:34:18 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It used to be 18, but it was shortened to 16 so the gov could sell surplus rifles with 16" barrels. what surplus rifles were 16"? |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 8:34:28 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It used to be 18, but it was shortened to 16 so the gov could sell surplus rifles with 16" barrels. I didn't know that. I don't much of the gun regulation history. |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 8:34:37 PM EDT
[#5]
National Firearms Act
eta: The term "firearm" means a shotgun or rifle having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length, or any other weapon, except a pistol or revolver, from which a shot is discharged by an explosive if such weapon is capable of being concealed on the person, or a machine gun, and includes a muffler or silencer for any firearm whether or not such firearm is included within the foregoing definition. Under the original Act, NFA weapons were machine guns, short-barreled rifles (SBR), short-barreled shotguns (SBS), any other weapons (AOW or concealable weapons other than pistol or revolver) and silencers for any type of firearm NFA or non-NFA. Minimum barrel length was soon amended to 16 inches for rimfire rifles and by 1960 had been amended to 16 inches for centerfire rifles as well. In recent years several SBRs, Winchester and Marlin "trapper" rifles made before 1934 with 14 or 15 inch barrels, were removed from the NFA (Title II), although they are still subject to Gun Control Act of 1968 (Title I). |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 8:34:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Arbitrary BS.
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Posted: 4/15/2014 8:35:09 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It used to be 18, but it was shortened to 16 so the gov could sell surplus rifles with 16" barrels. hmm, back when our government still loved money more than power. Now they want both. |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 8:42:16 PM EDT
[#8]
In the early days of this site, the late 90's and early 00's, 16" was widely considered to be the minimum barrel length to get the minimum terminal ballistics at 300 meters from an AR.
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Posted: 4/15/2014 8:47:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the early days of this site, the late 90's and early 00's, 16" was widely considered to be the minimum barrel length to get the minimum terminal ballistics at 300 meters from an AR. |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 8:48:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the early days of this site, the late 90's and early 00's, 16" was widely considered to be the minimum barrel length to get the minimum terminal ballistics at 300 meters from an AR. I remember those days, and would venture to say it lasted into the mid 2000's. |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 8:48:43 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Arbitrary BS. |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 8:55:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably still is, but nobody gives a fuck about that. ARs are built to make pretty internet pictures these days. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In the early days of this site, the late 90's and early 00's, 16" was widely considered to be the minimum barrel length to get the minimum terminal ballistics at 300 meters from an AR. maybe, but i fall under the belief that a gun should be built however you want it to be. |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 9:04:08 PM EDT
[#13]
# out of ass.
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Posted: 4/15/2014 9:07:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: When was this decided? And by whom? I can't find anything, but maybe I'm just not asking the question in the right way. I'm guessing this was some prohibition era regulation that stayed around? We go with 16" Barrels, simply because they are the shortest legal barrels. If it were 14.345",... we'd be buying 14.345" barrelled AR15.s |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 9:08:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Looks like 18 inches was in the original NFA act of 1934, it was later modified to 16 inches for rim fire rifles, then for center fire rifles as well.
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Posted: 4/15/2014 9:08:51 PM EDT
[#16]
Didn't they come up with the 26 inch deal due to the average length of a jacket in 34?
Eta: taking a shot in the dark but maybe most rifles with barrel lengths 16 inches and over were longer than 26 inches OAL and shotguns with 18 inch barrels did too.
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Posted: 4/15/2014 9:22:22 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like 18 inches was in the original NFA act of 1934, it was later modified to 16 inches for rim fire rifles, then for center fire rifles as well. Didn't know that. What was the reason? I guess there is little chance shotguns can get amended to 16". |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 9:29:52 PM EDT
[#18]
Another interesting find in the original NFA.
"The $200 tax on NFA firearms was quite prohibitive when the original law was passed. ($3,478.64 in 2013 dollars)" Can you imagine that. Damn. 
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Posted: 4/15/2014 9:32:08 PM EDT
[#19]
20" fan here but SBR's are very cool.
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Posted: 4/15/2014 9:33:48 PM EDT
[#20]
2x the length of my............
Nevermind. Aloha, Mark |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 9:36:32 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didn't they come up with the 26 inch deal due to the average length of a jacket in 34? Eta: taking a shot in the dark but maybe most rifles with barrel lengths 16 inches and over were longer than 26 inches OAL and shotguns with 18 inch barrels did too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didn't they come up with the 26 inch deal due to the average length of a jacket in 34? Eta: taking a shot in the dark but maybe most rifles with barrel lengths 16 inches and over were longer than 26 inches OAL and shotguns with 18 inch barrels did too. This is what it says: Short-barreled rifles (SBRs)—this category includes any firearm with a buttstock and either a rifled barrel under 16" long or an overall length under 26". The overall length is measured with any folding or collapsing stocks in the extended position. The category also includes firearms which came from the factory with a buttstock that was later removed by a third party. Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like 18 inches was in the original NFA act of 1934, it was later modified to 16 inches for rim fire rifles, then for center fire rifles as well. Didn't know that. What was the reason? I guess there is little chance shotguns can get amended to 16". Doesn't say why the change was made for center fire rifles. But from the above post, because of surplus imports. |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 9:47:36 PM EDT
[#22]
I like the 16" mid length barrels. Length, velocity, weight, balance, and that you can put a bayonet on it properly. No one length is perfect, but 16" to me is the sweet spot of ar15 barrels:
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Posted: 4/15/2014 10:00:59 PM EDT
[#23]
The Government decided...
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Posted: 4/15/2014 10:34:03 PM EDT
[#24]
Was originally 18", hence why shotguns are still at 18".
The idea was to put handguns and revolvers on the list (as they were concealable "gangster" guns no honest sportsman would own). To ban concealable firearms, you also had to ban SUPER short rifles/shotguns (back then, they believed in much longer barrels than we do today). In the process somewhere, pistols got removed from the NFA, but the SBR/SBS did not (who knows why). |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 10:36:48 PM EDT
[#25]
The early 30's, when the NRA helped write the National Firearms Act. |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 10:39:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The early 30's, when the NRA helped write the National Firearms Act. [citation needed] |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 10:41:21 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: [citation needed] Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The early 30's, when the NRA helped write the National Firearms Act. [citation needed] http://www.keepandbeararms.com/nra/nfa.asp |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 10:43:34 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Another interesting find in the original NFA. "The $200 tax on NFA firearms was quite prohibitive when the original law was passed. ($3,478.64 in 2013 dollars)" Can you imagine that. Damn. It was really a ban. They knew an outright ban would be unconstitutional (due to the Tenth), so they disguised it as a tax. |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 10:46:43 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
[citation needed] Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The early 30's, when the NRA helped write the National Firearms Act. [citation needed] Keep in mind, the NRA was quite different then. Many things were different in politics, some were better, some worse. NRA protected handguns, threw SBRs, SBSs, and full auto under the bus. It was probably a reasonable compromise, all considered. It is unrealistic to think they could get by without some restrictions. |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 11:00:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Keep in mind, the NRA was quite different then. Many things were different in politics, some were better, some worse. NRA protected handguns, threw SBRs, SBSs, and full auto under the bus. It was probably a reasonable compromise, all considered. It is unrealistic to think they could get by without some restrictions. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The early 30's, when the NRA helped write the National Firearms Act. [citation needed] Keep in mind, the NRA was quite different then. Many things were different in politics, some were better, some worse. NRA protected handguns, threw SBRs, SBSs, and full auto under the bus. It was probably a reasonable compromise, all considered. It is unrealistic to think they could get by without some restrictions.  |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 11:08:14 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then in 1986 they tossed us under the bus again with the firearm owners protection act.. Well, in '86 it actually ended up a real compromise, since FOPA rolled back some of the worst parts of '68. NFA wasn't a compromise big picture, just a loss, although NRA did save handguns. Saving handguns was very important, particularly in light of today's CCW laws, which would not have come about absent widespread, legal handguns. In turn, I think the CCW laws have helped in the overall political fight in a number of ways. |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 11:14:16 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Arbitrary BS. |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 11:19:27 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
2x the length of my inseam. 
Nevermind. Aloha, Mark |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 11:27:45 PM EDT
[#34]
handguns, both semi-auto & revolver were to be included in the NFA of 1934, but ultimately weren't. can you imagine how different life would be today, if that were the case (i.e $200 tax stamp & waiting time for each handgun)?
we went from almost having an de facto handgun ban in 1934, to today's liberalization of CCW laws (beginning in the 1980s & spreading from there), & this is without a doubt a huge factor in preventing further erosion of our gun rights. we have gotten lucky & dodged a few bullets. the sunset of the 1994 AWB was almost renewed in 2004. i remember as a kid in the mid-90s going to gun shows, & those were dark days indeed. |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 11:38:57 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
handguns, both semi-auto & revolver were to be included in the NFA of 1934, but ultimately weren't. can you imagine how different life would be today, if that were the case (i.e $200 tax stamp & waiting time for each handgun)? we went from almost having an de facto handgun ban in 1934, to today's liberalization of CCW laws (beginning in the 1980s & spreading from there), & this is without a doubt a huge factor in preventing further erosion of our gun rights. Quote HistoryQuoted:
handguns, both semi-auto & revolver were to be included in the NFA of 1934, but ultimately weren't. can you imagine how different life would be today, if that were the case (i.e $200 tax stamp & waiting time for each handgun)? we went from almost having an de facto handgun ban in 1934, to today's liberalization of CCW laws (beginning in the 1980s & spreading from there), & this is without a doubt a huge factor in preventing further erosion of our gun rights. Note that there was no pro gun lobby back in the '30s. No gun rights movement. I think that things like shall issue CCW really aided the gun rights movement, by making carrying firearms for self defense open to more people and by showing that more guns can reduce crime. But if handguns had NFA type restrictions, modern CCW would not have happened. Not to mention, Heller focused on handguns. So NRA did good, even though it was not the modern NRA with their current lobbying skills. Quoted:
we have gotten lucky & dodged a few bullets. the sunset of the 1994 AWB was almost renewed in 2004. i remember as a kid in the mid-90s going to gun shows, & those were dark days indeed. There was little chance of it passing in '94 with the make up of Congress at the time. Now, had it been up in 2009 . . . |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 11:51:42 PM EDT
[#36]
The ATF decided in an opinion at some point I am sure. Just like the greater than 26" is not concealable rule.
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Posted: 4/16/2014 3:28:14 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I remember those days, and would venture to say it lasted into the mid 2000's. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In the early days of this site, the late 90's and early 00's, 16" was widely considered to be the minimum barrel length to get the minimum terminal ballistics at 300 meters from an AR. I remember those days, and would venture to say it lasted into the mid 2000's. New ammo designs help.
http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/DocGKRData/223%20Barrier%20Rounds.htm |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 8:17:53 AM EDT
[#38]
Didn't it have something to do with fixed tubular magazines on some rifles and or shotguns?
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Posted: 4/16/2014 8:25:25 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was really a ban. They knew an outright ban would be unconstitutional (due to the Tenth), so they disguised it as a tax. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Another interesting find in the original NFA. "The $200 tax on NFA firearms was quite prohibitive when the original law was passed. ($3,478.64 in 2013 dollars)" Can you imagine that. Damn. It was really a ban. They knew an outright ban would be unconstitutional (due to the Tenth), so they disguised it as a tax. I'm pretty sure I remember reading a well written explanation from augee (of course, in his usual informative lessons) the 16" barrel length. It was in AR discussions
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Posted: 4/16/2014 8:28:58 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
2x the length of my............ Nevermind. Aloha, Mark We're talking about the barrel, not the caliber. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 8:29:04 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
hmm, back when our government still loved money more than power. Now they want both. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It used to be 18, but it was shortened to 16 so the gov could sell surplus rifles with 16" barrels. hmm, back when our government still loved money more than power. Now they want both. With enough power, you can just take money. Or, I guess in the government's case, you can just "make" money. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 8:37:34 AM EDT
[#42]
Compensate with the right powder
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Posted: 4/16/2014 8:39:37 AM EDT
[#43]
Penis size....insecurity
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Posted: 4/16/2014 8:42:00 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Keep in mind, the NRA was quite different then. Many things were different in politics, some were better, some worse. NRA protected handguns, threw SBRs, SBSs, and full auto under the bus. It was probably a reasonable compromise, all considered. It is unrealistic to think they could get by without some restrictions. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The early 30's, when the NRA helped write the National Firearms Act. [citation needed] Keep in mind, the NRA was quite different then. Many things were different in politics, some were better, some worse. NRA protected handguns, threw SBRs, SBSs, and full auto under the bus. It was probably a reasonable compromise, all considered. It is unrealistic to think they could get by without some restrictions. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 8:50:46 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
2x the length of my............ Nevermind. Aloha, Mark Nose?
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Posted: 4/16/2014 9:07:21 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably still is, but nobody gives a fuck about that. ARs are built to make pretty internet pictures these days. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In the early days of this site, the late 90's and early 00's, 16" was widely considered to be the minimum barrel length to get the minimum terminal ballistics at 300 meters from an AR. Out of a 5.56, maybe. Out of some of the newer calibers, no. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 10:02:53 AM EDT
[#47]
Top Men worked on it.
Top Men. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 10:06:29 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then in 1986 they tossed us under the bus again with the firearm owners protection act.. You don't seem to understand what we gained in 86. Although NY and NJ violate it frequently. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 10:06:53 AM EDT
[#49]
Fuck the metric system.
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Posted: 4/16/2014 7:52:07 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Top Men worked on it. Top Men. I see what ya did there. 
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