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This thread is a great reminder that it is way easier to talk yourself into trouble than out of it.
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Just for what it is worth and since it is free ... well, maybe nothing.
The situation can be explained very easily by understand that you don't own any land, you only own the rights to use it if you have a deed or lease or other usage agreement with the title holder. Just because you have a viable instrument to useage of a given parcel, the Feds still have one in their pocket that can trump it called Eminent Domain. The indiginous people of North America have been the recipient of how the Feds work when they want their way. There is a recently written book, THE NAZI AND THE PSYCHIATRIST BY Jack El-Hai that delves into the mentality of those with power and their objectives. It discusses the interactions of Douglas M. Kelly and his role in determining if the Nuremburg Trials defendants were fit for trial. He spent a lot of time interviewing Hermann Goring before Goring commited suicide. The parallels others have drawn to Ruby Ridge and Waco are a reasonable comparison to Mr. Bundy's situation in examining the tactics and stategies behind how the Feds like to handle things in the ever increasing militarization of their enforcement agencys and not necessarily the situation or crimes that the Feds believed or rather wanted the general public to believe was the case and justification for their actions. It is interesting to note the parallels that can be drawn between the current state of our country and those of pre-World War II Germany. Many of the same condition exist here and much of the legislation to bring the people what they want is bringing more control to the Feds and squashing out the liberty of the civilian population for the good of the populace whether the populace wants it or not. It would seem the next move on the national level will be to put a stop to political free speech and freedom of assembly. After all, they are God! ... Well, at least in their minds and can not be wrong or wronged without retribution. |
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Yesterday, the BLM stood down and left the escalating crisis in Nevada after thousands of protesters and militia from all across the country showed up to stand with Cliven Bundy and his family who has homesteaded his land for over 100 years.
Corporations turned to the federal government to repossess the land for them, and used the BLM to enforce an illegal court order. Now... all the 2nd Amendment haters out there need to ask themselves a question. Would the BLM have stood down if the protesters and militia were not armed? This situation was resolved peacefully, even with thousands of armed "gun nuts" on site defending a man they don't even know, for an idea of liberty they have known in their hearts all of their life. This is precisely what the founding fathers had in mind when they wrote the 2nd. Shouldn't need to convince anyone that corporations have bought all branches of the federal government by now. Let this set an example that the government and their law enforcement are not infallible and cannot be trusted to maintain a monopoly on the use of force. |
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While in context an action may be legitimate it is often still regretful. Of all the millions of avatars that could be chosen, to go with that one states something about you, that you are celebrating being allowed to do the action. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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That isn't noble in any way shape or form. I thought that was pretty clear from my comment to FedDC. That pic was from a legitimate use of force where a suspect being restrained bit a LEO standing next to his head. It's funny that you assume it was bad without knowing the details. While in context an action may be legitimate it is often still regretful. Of all the millions of avatars that could be chosen, to go with that one states something about you, that you are celebrating being allowed to do the action. He knows it's distasteful, that why he chose it. Someone else who was only a lowly DOT Inspector might even find themselves engorged at the thought of actual armed .gov brethren deploying MRAP's & D9's against "uppity" citizens. Be careful out there, those paper-cuts from trucker logbooks can become infected and painful... |
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He knows it's distasteful, that why he chose it. Someone else who was only a lowly DOT Inspector might even find themselves engorged at the thought of actual armed .gov brethren deploying MRAP's & D9's against "uppity" citizens. Be careful out there, those paper-cuts from trucker logbooks can become infected and painful... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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That isn't noble in any way shape or form. I thought that was pretty clear from my comment to FedDC. That pic was from a legitimate use of force where a suspect being restrained bit a LEO standing next to his head. It's funny that you assume it was bad without knowing the details. While in context an action may be legitimate it is often still regretful. Of all the millions of avatars that could be chosen, to go with that one states something about you, that you are celebrating being allowed to do the action. He knows it's distasteful, that why he chose it. Someone else who was only a lowly DOT Inspector might even find themselves engorged at the thought of actual armed .gov brethren deploying MRAP's & D9's against "uppity" citizens. Be careful out there, those paper-cuts from trucker logbooks can become infected and painful... Intune and akodo said it in a much clearer way than I ever could have. |
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Pic from another ARF. http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x115/coctailer/d108e4d2397e816aa6d28ecefec6e872.jpg View Quote Either: 1. That dude was sure getting his "15 minutes of fame" in front of all the cameras, or 2. Those spectators almost got to watch the Battle of Bull Run. |
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Keep talking so the rest of Arfcom can see you for who you are. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What happened? Link? Ranchers grazing their cattle on fed land and the feds want it to stop. Feds seize cattle and show up with their wannabees in their Level IV "Storming Fallujah" battle rattle only this time the locals showed up with their own guns. The feds decided there was too much possibility of harm to local citizenry so they backed away after siccing their dogs on a couple of people and tasing them. You forgot the part about the guy using property that wasn't his, for his own personal profits, and not paying fines or fees for many years... Keep talking so the rest of Arfcom can see you for who you are. So you're saying he owned the property? He was paying fees to use it? From where I'm sitting, the feds weren't playing nice (increasing fees and demanding fewer cattle graze there), but they DO own the land. |
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http://s21.postimg.org/x05u3e3zr/article_2603026_1_D103_FEC00000578_811_634x439.jpg Either: 1. That dude was sure getting his "15 minutes of fame" in front of all the cameras, or 2. Those spectators almost got to watch the Battle of Bull Run. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Pic from another ARF. http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x115/coctailer/d108e4d2397e816aa6d28ecefec6e872.jpg http://s21.postimg.org/x05u3e3zr/article_2603026_1_D103_FEC00000578_811_634x439.jpg Either: 1. That dude was sure getting his "15 minutes of fame" in front of all the cameras, or 2. Those spectators almost got to watch the Battle of Bull Run. letting his picture get taken might made for good press, but has ruined any chances that he will be let closer than 15m at the next possible engagement. |
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Quoted: Ranchers have been charged for grazing on public land since the Taylor Grazing Act of...1934. Paying for grazing on public land is nothing new -- other than in this case the feds finally decided to do something about it after 20 years of trying to get him to pay up and comply in court. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well I want my portion of the fees he was supposed to be paying me for using my part of it. Show me a constitutional authority to bill people for federal use of the land they're paying for through taxes. The feds own the land. They have a fiduciary duty to manage it for the benefit of all taxpayers. In reality, that land should have been transferred to the states, but Nevada probably didn't want it at the time because it doesn't have any water. Do you really advocate anyone being able to use any parcel of federal land in any way they wish, and not pay the government a dime? Do I advocate the Feds deciding that they can all of a sudden charge for something already being done? Nope. Because that's a line that once crossed, will lead to them looking for things that people do for them to charge. That's the point. Ranchers have been charged for grazing on public land since the Taylor Grazing Act of...1934. Paying for grazing on public land is nothing new -- other than in this case the feds finally decided to do something about it after 20 years of trying to get him to pay up and comply in court. I heard something that he is the only rancher out there grazing his cattle in that area, cause the BML priced all the other ranchers out of business. |
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http://s21.postimg.org/x05u3e3zr/article_2603026_1_D103_FEC00000578_811_634x439.jpg Either: 1. That dude was sure getting his "15 minutes of fame" in front of all the cameras, or 2. Those spectators almost got to watch the Battle of Bull Run. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Pic from another ARF. http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x115/coctailer/d108e4d2397e816aa6d28ecefec6e872.jpg http://s21.postimg.org/x05u3e3zr/article_2603026_1_D103_FEC00000578_811_634x439.jpg Either: 1. That dude was sure getting his "15 minutes of fame" in front of all the cameras, or 2. Those spectators almost got to watch the Battle of Bull Run. I saw the other picture with two guys with guns. That was "frightening." I read posts about all the Bundy supporting people with guns yet in a video that showed some BLM side folks leaving on foot, I saw no guns. Were the Bundy supporters in fact openly well-armed, especially with rifles? |
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BTW. Did anybody happen to note that he quit paying grazing fees when the fed govt said the fees had to be paid to them? He had been paying grazing fees to the county and has said he would gladly continue to pay the county. The reason the fed is all upset is because of the desert tortoise ... An endangered species that occupies the grazing land. The fed said no more spring time grazing - which is the most important grazing time for the ranchers, and the rancher said 'bullshit' .. View Quote Your heart is in the right place, but you're wrong. They wanted to bring in a CHinese company to build a power plant for Harry Reid,, his son, and Zer0. http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/info/newsroom/2014/February/Secretary_Jewell_Announces_Two_Solar_Projects_Approved_in_California__Nevada.html This is LITERALLY ON the land they want the cows off of. They couldn't give two squirts of monkey piss about the fucking turtles. Click the link, I fully expect it to be taken down ASAP. |
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I don't know this one is also pretty good. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Army of lawyers, fines, asset forfeiture, enforcement of every single BLM, EPA, and other reg with daily fines... In a year, the suspects will have violated a law or 12 and will be in jail. Long war vs short battle. Thank you. You just encapsulated in three short sentences why the federal government is so out of control. Thank you for your service. I don't know this one is also pretty good. Quoted:
That works right up to the point where the stronger party gets tired of playing nice and stops showing restraint against people and things that matter to you. You assume that the more powerful side will still follow the "rules" and not show up with a D9 at your house and knock it down with your kids inside... Don't wake sleeping giants. FedDC forgets who the true giants are. They always do. |
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FedDC forgets who the true giants are. They always do. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Army of lawyers, fines, asset forfeiture, enforcement of every single BLM, EPA, and other reg with daily fines... In a year, the suspects will have violated a law or 12 and will be in jail. Long war vs short battle. Thank you. You just encapsulated in three short sentences why the federal government is so out of control. Thank you for your service. I don't know this one is also pretty good. Quoted:
That works right up to the point where the stronger party gets tired of playing nice and stops showing restraint against people and things that matter to you. You assume that the more powerful side will still follow the "rules" and not show up with a D9 at your house and knock it down with your kids inside... Don't wake sleeping giants. FedDC forgets who the true giants are. They always do. DC is full of self important Lilliputians. The majority of the DC clan has never done an honest days work in their lives. |
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That works right up to the point where the stronger party gets tired of playing nice and stops showing restraint against people and things that matter to you. You assume that the more powerful side will still follow the "rules" and not show up with a D9 at your house and knock it down with your kids inside... Don't wake sleeping giants. View Quote For once, I agree with you! The people are really getting tired of playing nice and clearly they won't show restraint for much longer. I'll check with my buddies and see if they can loan me their Cat D11T if the need should arise. |
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FedDC forgets who the true giants are. They always do. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Army of lawyers, fines, asset forfeiture, enforcement of every single BLM, EPA, and other reg with daily fines... In a year, the suspects will have violated a law or 12 and will be in jail. Long war vs short battle. Thank you. You just encapsulated in three short sentences why the federal government is so out of control. Thank you for your service. I don't know this one is also pretty good. Quoted:
That works right up to the point where the stronger party gets tired of playing nice and stops showing restraint against people and things that matter to you. You assume that the more powerful side will still follow the "rules" and not show up with a D9 at your house and knock it down with your kids inside... Don't wake sleeping giants. FedDC forgets who the true giants are. They always do. It is funny that he thinks he has all this power. The power rests with the people. |
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Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3 of the United States Constitution. Ex Post Facto laws are illegal.
Meaning that any grazing fees imposed since the Bundy's homesteaded the land over 100 years ago, do not apply. |
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Unless the feds had a Blackhawk or six sitting about 60 seconds away. http://files.air-attack.com/MIL/uh60/uh60_header.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Regardless, that is one cherry firing position. You can't really ask for better. Unless the feds had a Blackhawk or six sitting about 60 seconds away. http://files.air-attack.com/MIL/uh60/uh60_header.jpg As much as I'd hate to take fire from a Blackhawk... I'd *MUCH* more hate to be *IN* the Blackhawk taking fire from a bunch of duck hunters. They're not bulletproof. |
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Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3 of the United States Constitution. Ex Post Facto laws are illegal. Meaning that any grazing fees imposed since the Bundy's homesteaded the land over 100 years ago, do not apply. View Quote constitution? constitution? we don't need no stinking constitution |
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It's not over, but it will not surface in a physical confrontation again. The feds will seize all of Bundy's assets, lien his property, freeze his bank accounts, and cancel any water rights he may have. They will attack him in the wallet now. Poor man is ruined and he knows it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I think that situation is far from over. It's not over, but it will not surface in a physical confrontation again. The feds will seize all of Bundy's assets, lien his property, freeze his bank accounts, and cancel any water rights he may have. They will attack him in the wallet now. Poor man is ruined and he knows it. Nothing more dangerous then a man with nothing left too lose. Unfortunately big brother never forgets or forgives I suspect he'll be confronted with an armed group of Mexican cartel members, after uncle Sam calls in that favor for the arms deal. Tin foil time woo-hoo.... . ;-) Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Nothing more dangerous then a man with nothing left too lose. Unfortunately big brother never forgets or forgives I suspect he'll be confronted with an armed group of Mexican cartel members, after uncle Sam calls in that favor for the arms deal. Tin foil time woo-hoo.... . ;-) Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I think that situation is far from over. It's not over, but it will not surface in a physical confrontation again. The feds will seize all of Bundy's assets, lien his property, freeze his bank accounts, and cancel any water rights he may have. They will attack him in the wallet now. Poor man is ruined and he knows it. Nothing more dangerous then a man with nothing left too lose. Unfortunately big brother never forgets or forgives I suspect he'll be confronted with an armed group of Mexican cartel members, after uncle Sam calls in that favor for the arms deal. Tin foil time woo-hoo.... . ;-) Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Quoted: Pic from another ARF. http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x115/coctailer/d108e4d2397e816aa6d28ecefec6e872.jpg View Quote "a gun behind every sagebush and boulder..." |
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http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1611309_Rancher___Range_war__with_the_government_begins_Monday_morning__SHTF_soon__it_s_happening.html
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