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Posted: 4/11/2014 11:12:56 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You still haven't explained why a standard muzzle brake silencer adapter, which clearly acts in the same fashion as this brake, and also functions as a short baffle stack when used in combination with a suppressor tube is somehow different. What if the Surefire/AAC brake was theoretically longer and acted as half the baffles in the tube? What if it replaced all of the internal baffles? It doesn't change the fact that it acts as a brake absent the true silencer parts(the tube/endcap). AAC sell there brake as a replaceable blast baffle.. |
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Posted: 4/11/2014 11:23:27 AM EDT
[#2]
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BS. Did you call AAC? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So basically what you are saying is you've completely backed yourself into a corner and just can't admit that practically speaking there is no difference between the sig product and a (for example) Surefire muzzle brake/suppressor mount. 
BS. Did you call AAC? So your argument is correct because FTB currently misinterprets the law and wouldn't allow AAC to sell him a monocore brake? I'm guessing they will after this case is over with. |
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Posted: 4/11/2014 11:31:27 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You start your argument out by creating a false premise that a standard muzzle brake silencer mounting device acts in the same fashion as this SIG muzzle brake. It clearly doesn't in all of its characteristics. So no point in even debating it. A mouse is not a squirrel simply because they both have fur, a tail, ears and four legs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And there is no requirement that a cheese grater be the most efficient design. But the bottomline is that when SIG designed that "muzzle brake", they designed it FIRST as a silencer baffle stack that fits precisely into an optional silencer tube with the intended purpose of silencing the report of a firearm, so therefor it is a silencer part. The word "only" in the below silencer definition was put there so people wouldn't be charged with illegal suppressor parts if they owned common pipe, steel wool, rivets, washers etc with other real intended purposes. The term “Firearm Silencer” or “Firearm Muffler” means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.
Any device that meets the definition as stipulated above in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(24) is also subject to controls as defined in the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C., Chapter 53 You still haven't explained why a standard muzzle brake silencer adapter, which clearly acts in the same fashion as this brake, and also functions as a short baffle stack when used in combination with a suppressor tube is somehow different. What if the Surefire/AAC brake was theoretically longer and acted as half the baffles in the tube? What if it replaced all of the internal baffles? It doesn't change the fact that it acts as a brake absent the true silencer parts(the tube/endcap). You start your argument out by creating a false premise that a standard muzzle brake silencer mounting device acts in the same fashion as this SIG muzzle brake. It clearly doesn't in all of its characteristics. So no point in even debating it. A mouse is not a squirrel simply because they both have fur, a tail, ears and four legs. at what point does a break become a suppressor? 
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Posted: 4/11/2014 11:32:45 AM EDT
[#4]
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So your argument is correct because FTB currently misinterprets the law and wouldn't allow AAC to sell him a monocore brake? I'm guessing they will after this case is over with. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So basically what you are saying is you've completely backed yourself into a corner and just can't admit that practically speaking there is no difference between the sig product and a (for example) Surefire muzzle brake/suppressor mount.
BS. Did you call AAC? So your argument is correct because FTB currently misinterprets the law and wouldn't allow AAC to sell him a monocore brake? I'm guessing they will after this case is over with. Why don't you call every silencer manufacturer in the USA and try to buy some monolithic suppressor baffle cores, presenting your argument they they should be sold without any restrictions because you plan to attach them to your gun and use them for a muzzle brake. Let us know how many of these manufacturers agree with you and are willing to ship you the cores without any NFA paperwork. Go for it and report back. |
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Posted: 4/11/2014 11:38:35 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had a suspicion something might be happening after this ruling for another muzzle device. 
http://www.shootingwire.com/features/228649 Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had a suspicion something might be happening after this ruling for another muzzle device.
http://www.shootingwire.com/features/228649 The ruling went on to remind the ATF that having "a tail, grey skin and four legs" didn't make an animal an "elephant" or a child's bicycle a motorcycle because it had "three characteristics of motorcycles: two rubber tires, handlebars and a leather seat."
He didn't stop there. He went on to point out that a Bud Light is not a Single-Malt Scotch because it is "frequently served in a glass container, contains alcohol and is served in a tavern" any more than a hockey puck is a "rubber bullet" because it has "rounded sides, is made of vulcanized rubber, and is capable of causing injury when launched at high speeds." "Learning that one object has three characteristics in common with some category," he wrote, "may not be very helpful in determining whether the object in question belongs in that category."  
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Posted: 4/11/2014 11:40:10 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why don't you call every silencer manufacturer in the USA and try to buy some monolithic suppressor baffle cores, presenting your argument they they should be sold without any restrictions because you plan to attach them to your gun and use them for a muzzle brake. Let us know how many of these manufacturers agree with you and are willing to ship you the cores without any NFA paperwork. Go for it and report back. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why don't you call every silencer manufacturer in the USA and try to buy some monolithic suppressor baffle cores, presenting your argument they they should be sold without any restrictions because you plan to attach them to your gun and use them for a muzzle brake. Let us know how many of these manufacturers agree with you and are willing to ship you the cores without any NFA paperwork. Go for it and report back. Again, all you are saying is that you're correct because the ATF FTB won't allow manufacturers to currently sell monocore brakes due to their misinterpretation of the law. It's quite apparent you're unable to put together a coherent argument about how Sig's version of a muzzle device that has blast chambers, threads, and allows a silencer tube to be attached is somehow different from everyone else, so you're just falling back on ATF's opinion as being totally correct. 
Gem-Tech sure looks like they are tooling up for Mono-core brakes to be permitted... http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/01/foghorn/new-gemtech-rimfire-silencer-integrally-suppressed-1022/ The nice thing about this rifle is that the barrel is a full 16 inches long with the permanently attached baffles, so you can buy the gun on a standard 4473 and then use it while you wait for the paperwork on the shroud (the serialized part) to come back from the NFA branch. 
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Posted: 4/11/2014 12:02:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why don't you call every silencer manufacturer in the USA and try to buy some monolithic suppressor baffle cores, presenting your argument they they should be sold without any restrictions because you plan to attach them to your gun and use them for a muzzle brake. Let us know how many of these manufacturers agree with you and are willing to ship you the cores without any NFA paperwork. Go for it and report back. 
You like shotguns with birdshot for home defense don't you? |
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Posted: 4/11/2014 12:04:31 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You like shotguns with birdshot for home defense don't you? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why don't you call every silencer manufacturer in the USA and try to buy some monolithic suppressor baffle cores, presenting your argument they they should be sold without any restrictions because you plan to attach them to your gun and use them for a muzzle brake. Let us know how many of these manufacturers agree with you and are willing to ship you the cores without any NFA paperwork. Go for it and report back.
You like shotguns with birdshot for home defense don't you? Nope. This is my HD gun 
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Posted: 4/11/2014 12:13:09 PM EDT
[#9]
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Nope. This is my HD gun https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vtFqDAgc8E8/Uih-ZoF007I/AAAAAAAADI0/ZXdT-CCdGb8/s800/IMG_3229%2520%2528Large%2529.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why don't you call every silencer manufacturer in the USA and try to buy some monolithic suppressor baffle cores, presenting your argument they they should be sold without any restrictions because you plan to attach them to your gun and use them for a muzzle brake. Let us know how many of these manufacturers agree with you and are willing to ship you the cores without any NFA paperwork. Go for it and report back.
You like shotguns with birdshot for home defense don't you? Nope. This is my HD gun https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vtFqDAgc8E8/Uih-ZoF007I/AAAAAAAADI0/ZXdT-CCdGb8/s800/IMG_3229%2520%2528Large%2529.JPG Whew - based on your dogged rejection of reality I was starting to wonder. Nice rifle BTW |
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Posted: 4/11/2014 12:24:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope. This is my HD gun https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vtFqDAgc8E8/Uih-ZoF007I/AAAAAAAADI0/ZXdT-CCdGb8/s800/IMG_3229%2520%2528Large%2529.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: SNIP Nope. This is my HD gun https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vtFqDAgc8E8/Uih-ZoF007I/AAAAAAAADI0/ZXdT-CCdGb8/s800/IMG_3229%2520%2528Large%2529.JPG |
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Posted: 4/11/2014 12:24:38 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Again, all you are saying is that you're correct because the ATF FTB won't allow manufacturers to currently sell monocore brakes due to their misinterpretation of the law. It's quite apparent you're unable to put together a coherent argument about how Sig's version of a muzzle device that has blast chambers, threads, and allows a silencer tube to be attached is somehow different from everyone else, so you're just falling back on ATF's opinion as being totally correct.
Gem-Tech sure looks like they are tooling up for Mono-core brakes to be permitted... http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/01/foghorn/new-gemtech-rimfire-silencer-integrally-suppressed-1022/ http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/630x420xP1010907-900x600.jpg.pagespeed.ic.RFk0OX14ir.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why don't you call every silencer manufacturer in the USA and try to buy some monolithic suppressor baffle cores, presenting your argument they they should be sold without any restrictions because you plan to attach them to your gun and use them for a muzzle brake. Let us know how many of these manufacturers agree with you and are willing to ship you the cores without any NFA paperwork. Go for it and report back. Again, all you are saying is that you're correct because the ATF FTB won't allow manufacturers to currently sell monocore brakes due to their misinterpretation of the law. It's quite apparent you're unable to put together a coherent argument about how Sig's version of a muzzle device that has blast chambers, threads, and allows a silencer tube to be attached is somehow different from everyone else, so you're just falling back on ATF's opinion as being totally correct.
Gem-Tech sure looks like they are tooling up for Mono-core brakes to be permitted... http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/01/foghorn/new-gemtech-rimfire-silencer-integrally-suppressed-1022/ The nice thing about this rifle is that the barrel is a full 16 inches long with the permanently attached baffles, so you can buy the gun on a standard 4473 and then use it while you wait for the paperwork on the shroud (the serialized part) to come back from the NFA branch. http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/630x420xP1010907-900x600.jpg.pagespeed.ic.RFk0OX14ir.jpg Are there lots of brakes that are not cut from single pieces of steel? I've never heard of a mono-core brake, it doesn't make sense, what is it the core of? |
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Posted: 4/11/2014 12:28:30 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are there lots of brakes that are not cut from single pieces of steel? I've never heard of a mono-core brake, it doesn't make sense, what is it the core of? Quote HistoryQuoted: SNIP Are there lots of brakes that are not cut from single pieces of steel? I've never heard of a mono-core brake, it doesn't make sense, what is it the core of? Brake's are pretty much all one piece, their might be some oddballs around that are assembled from multiple pieces but they are unusual. The terms is being used because a couple companies have started making dual purpose muzzle brake/baffle stack designs. We'll find out in time whether they get to keep making them as unregulated parts or not. |
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Posted: 4/11/2014 12:29:38 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are there lots of brakes that are not cut from single pieces of steel? I've never heard of a mono-core brake, it doesn't make sense, what is it the core of? Good catch. 
Was using it more for illustrative purposes since 57 insists that there is some difference between a mono-core and a brake. I guess mono-core "style" brakes would be a more appropriate way to say it. 
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Posted: 4/11/2014 12:33:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why don't you call every silencer manufacturer in the USA and try to buy some monolithic suppressor baffle cores, presenting your argument they they should be sold without any restrictions because you plan to attach them to your gun and use them for a muzzle brake. Let us know how many of these manufacturers agree with you and are willing to ship you the cores without any NFA paperwork. Go for it and report back. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So basically what you are saying is you've completely backed yourself into a corner and just can't admit that practically speaking there is no difference between the sig product and a (for example) Surefire muzzle brake/suppressor mount.
BS. Did you call AAC? So your argument is correct because FTB currently misinterprets the law and wouldn't allow AAC to sell him a monocore brake? I'm guessing they will after this case is over with. Why don't you call every silencer manufacturer in the USA and try to buy some monolithic suppressor baffle cores, presenting your argument they they should be sold without any restrictions because you plan to attach them to your gun and use them for a muzzle brake. Let us know how many of these manufacturers agree with you and are willing to ship you the cores without any NFA paperwork. Go for it and report back. So their fear of the ATF means that your interpretation is correct? |
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Posted: 4/11/2014 12:35:29 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is a slam dunk win. (With a good judge of course.  )
edit: The problem ATF is going to find is that they have painted themselves into a false logic corner and its time to pay the piper. Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is a slam dunk win. (With a good judge of course. )
edit: The problem ATF is going to find is that they have painted themselves into a false logic corner and its time to pay the piper. The judge is Paul Barbadoro and he has dealt with at least one notable firearms case: On July 6, 2012, the United States Court of Appeals for the First Circuit upheld the ruling of Judge Barbadoro, holding that a NH man could not be held liable for the use of his handgun in a violent crime. Gail Jones, the mother of a shooting victim, filed a lawsuit alleging that Lawrence Secord was liable for the use of his handgun by his grandson in an armed robbery that resulted in three fatalities in 2007. Secord's gun was stolen by his grandson, who broke into a locked summer cabin to obtain the firearm. Barbadoro agreed with Secord that he had taken proper precautions to secure his firearm. Judge Bruce Marshall Selya agreed, writing the opinion of the panel consisting of Judges Jeffrey R. Howard and O. Rogeriee Thompson. He stated in the opinion, "The record here, even when construed in the light most flattering to the plaintiff, does not show either a particularized risk of harm or a degree of foreseeability sufficient to animate this exception." Jones told the press she brought the lawsuit on to raise awareness of gun storage and risk, telling the press, "Firearms are very dangerous when they're in the wrong hands." |
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Posted: 4/11/2014 12:53:54 PM EDT
[#16]
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Very nice. I like the 40rd PMAG in an SBR look. Who's can are you using? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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SNIP Nope. This is my HD gun https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vtFqDAgc8E8/Uih-ZoF007I/AAAAAAAADI0/ZXdT-CCdGb8/s800/IMG_3229%2520%2528Large%2529.JPG AAC M4-2000 |
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Posted: 4/11/2014 1:00:49 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: at what point does a break become a suppressor? http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m9ddVrDd_25hcK6zafQIpiA.jpg http://barrett.net/images/firearms/m107a1/muzzle.jpg http://www.speedshooter.com/images/CCW223.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: And there is no requirement that a cheese grater be the most efficient design. But the bottomline is that when SIG designed that "muzzle brake", they designed it FIRST as a silencer baffle stack that fits precisely into an optional silencer tube with the intended purpose of silencing the report of a firearm, so therefor it is a silencer part. The word "only" in the below silencer definition was put there so people wouldn't be charged with illegal suppressor parts if they owned common pipe, steel wool, rivets, washers etc with other real intended purposes. The term "Firearm Silencer” or "Firearm Muffler” means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication. Any device that meets the definition as stipulated above in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(24) is also subject to controls as defined in the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C., Chapter 53 You still haven't explained why a standard muzzle brake silencer adapter, which clearly acts in the same fashion as this brake, and also functions as a short baffle stack when used in combination with a suppressor tube is somehow different. What if the Surefire/AAC brake was theoretically longer and acted as half the baffles in the tube? What if it replaced all of the internal baffles? It doesn't change the fact that it acts as a brake absent the true silencer parts(the tube/endcap). You start your argument out by creating a false premise that a standard muzzle brake silencer mounting device acts in the same fashion as this SIG muzzle brake. It clearly doesn't in all of its characteristics. So no point in even debating it. A mouse is not a squirrel simply because they both have fur, a tail, ears and four legs. at what point does a break become a suppressor? http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m9ddVrDd_25hcK6zafQIpiA.jpg http://barrett.net/images/firearms/m107a1/muzzle.jpg http://www.speedshooter.com/images/CCW223.jpg *brake
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Posted: 4/11/2014 8:29:23 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mono-core comes from the suppressor world. The majority of suppressor use a stack of baffles pressed against each other inside of a tube. Some newer suppressors use a mono-core design where one piece of metal is cut to make all of the baffles in a one piece stack. Brake's are pretty much all one piece, their might be some oddballs around that are assembled from multiple pieces but they are unusual. The terms is being used because a couple companies have started making dual purpose muzzle brake/baffle stack designs. We'll find out in time whether they get to keep making them as unregulated parts or not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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SNIP
Are there lots of brakes that are not cut from single pieces of steel? I've never heard of a mono-core brake, it doesn't make sense, what is it the core of? Brake's are pretty much all one piece, their might be some oddballs around that are assembled from multiple pieces but they are unusual. The terms is being used because a couple companies have started making dual purpose muzzle brake/baffle stack designs. We'll find out in time whether they get to keep making them as unregulated parts or not. Noveske Flaming Pig. Bulgarian Krink. Others that copy the same design. They are literally a small K baffle suppressor that doesn't lessen sound. |
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Posted: 4/11/2014 10:33:15 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Noveske Flaming Pig. Bulgarian Krink. Others that copy the same design. They are literally a small K baffle suppressor that doesn't lessen sound. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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SNIP
Are there lots of brakes that are not cut from single pieces of steel? I've never heard of a mono-core brake, it doesn't make sense, what is it the core of? Brake's are pretty much all one piece, their might be some oddballs around that are assembled from multiple pieces but they are unusual. The terms is being used because a couple companies have started making dual purpose muzzle brake/baffle stack designs. We'll find out in time whether they get to keep making them as unregulated parts or not. Noveske Flaming Pig. Bulgarian Krink. Others that copy the same design. They are literally a small K baffle suppressor that doesn't lessen sound. No, they are cone baffles. |
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Posted: 4/12/2014 12:46:49 PM EDT
[#20]
Watching members of the industry stick it in the ATF's eye rubs me the right way.
Im looking real hard at a 556xi in x39 because of this. |
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Posted: 4/12/2014 6:42:40 PM EDT
[#21]
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Now that's a sig I would own. :) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Sig likes to fight the Feds! Time for another Sig This is not new.
http://www.shotgunnews.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/12/files/sig-sauer-m1911-spartan-review/sig-sauer-m1911-spartan_003.jpg Yep. Very nice. |
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Posted: 5/1/2014 12:56:41 AM EDT
[#22]
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Watching members of the industry stick it in the ATF's eye rubs me the right way. Im looking real hard at a 556xi in x39 because of this. It warms my heart. 
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Posted: 5/1/2014 1:00:37 AM EDT
[#23]
That would be cool in .45
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Posted: 5/8/2014 4:17:31 PM EDT
[#24]
"A lawsuit has been filed against you.
Within 21 days after service of this summons on you (not counting the day you received it) — or 60 days if you are the United States or a United States agency, or an officer or employee of the United States described in Fed. R. Civ.P. 12 (a)(2) or (3) — you must serve on the plaintiff an answer to the attached complaint or a motion under Rule 12 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. " The above cited is taken from the last page of the Complaint. Am I to understand that they have 60 days from the filing date of April 4th to reply? I am trying to get my mind around the timeline of this case. |
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Posted: 5/8/2014 4:26:34 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "A lawsuit has been filed against you. Within 21 days after service of this summons on you (not counting the day you received it) — or 60 days if you are the United States or a United States agency, or an officer or employee of the United States described in Fed. R. Civ.P. 12 (a)(2) or (3) — you must serve on the plaintiff an answer to the attached complaint or a motion under Rule 12 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. " The above cited is taken from the last page of the Complaint. Am I to understand that they have 60 days from the filing date of April 4th to reply? I am trying to get my mind around the timeline of this case. They have 60 days from the date they received the summons, not 60 days from the filing date. You would have to look at the return of service to see what date they were served. Note: Rather than file an answer by day 60, they could do a variety of things such as file a motion to dismiss or file a motion for more time to respond. |
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Posted: 5/8/2014 4:39:24 PM EDT
[#26]
Damn.
I may need a SIG, and fiancee wants one too... ETA: DAY 35 |
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Posted: 5/21/2014 5:09:10 PM EDT
[#27]
Affidavit of Service entered today.
E Holder 4-23-2014 B. Todd Jones, Dírector BATFE 5-01-14 Civil Process Clerk, U.S. Attorney's Office 4-17-2014 AFFIDAVIT OF SERVICE OF PROCESS
I, Kenton J. Villano, on oath, depose and state as follows: 1. I am one of the attorneys for Plaintiff Sig Sauer, Inc. (the “Plaintiff) in the abovereferenced action. 2. The Complaint in this matter was filed on or about April 15, 2014. 3. Service of Defendant B. Todd Jones, as well as the U.S. Attorney for the District of New Hampshire and the Attorney General of the United States, was conducted pursuant to Rule 4(i) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. 4. On April 11, 2014, I sent by registered mail, return receipt requested, a copy of the Summons and Complaint to B. Todd Jones, Director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, 99 New York Avenue, N.E., Washington, DC 20226, in compliance with Fed. R. Civ. P. 4(i). 5. I received a Registered Mail return receipt indicating that the Summons and Complaint were received and signed for on May 1, 2014. See return receipt attached hereto as Exhibit A. Case 1:14-cv-00147-PB Document 8 Filed 05/21/14 Page 1 of 2 2 6. On April 15, 2014, I sent by registered mail, return receipt requested, a copy of the Summons and Complaint to the Civil Process Clerk at the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of New Hampshire Insurance Company, 54 Pleasant Street, 4th Floor,, Concord, NH 03301, in compliance with Fed. R. Civ. P. 4(i). 7. I received a Registered Mail return receipt indicating that the Summons and Complaint were received and signed for on April 17, 2014. See return receipt attached hereto as Exhibit B. 8. On April 15, 2014, I sent by registered mail, return receipt requested, a copy of the Summons and Complaint to Eric H. Holder, the Attorney General for the United States, 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W., Washington, DC 20530, in compliance with Fed. R. Civ. P. 4(i). 9. I received a Registered Mail return receipt indicating that the Summons and Complaint were received and signed for on April 23, 2014. See return receipt attached hereto as Exhibit C. FURTHER AFFIANT SAYETH NOT. Signed under the pains and penalties of perjury this 21th day of May, 2014. /s/ Kenton J. Villano Kenton J. Villano MAY 21, 2014 |
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Posted: 5/21/2014 5:29:30 PM EDT
[#28]
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SNIP
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Posted: 5/21/2014 5:35:11 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 5/21/2014 6:04:31 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Affidavit of Service entered today. E Holder 4-23-2014 B. Todd Jones, Dírector BATFE 5-01-14 Civil Process Clerk, U.S. Attorney's Office 4-17-2014 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Affidavit of Service entered today. E Holder 4-23-2014 B. Todd Jones, Dírector BATFE 5-01-14 Civil Process Clerk, U.S. Attorney's Office 4-17-2014 AFFIDAVIT OF SERVICE OF PROCESS
I, Kenton J. Villano, on oath, depose and state as follows: 1. I am one of the attorneys for Plaintiff Sig Sauer, Inc. (the “Plaintiff) in the abovereferenced action. 2. The Complaint in this matter was filed on or about April 15, 2014. 3. Service of Defendant B. Todd Jones, as well as the U.S. Attorney for the District of New Hampshire and the Attorney General of the United States, was conducted pursuant to Rule 4(i) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. 4. On April 11, 2014, I sent by registered mail, return receipt requested, a copy of the Summons and Complaint to B. Todd Jones, Director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, 99 New York Avenue, N.E., Washington, DC 20226, in compliance with Fed. R. Civ. P. 4(i). 5. I received a Registered Mail return receipt indicating that the Summons and Complaint were received and signed for on May 1, 2014. See return receipt attached hereto as Exhibit A. Case 1:14-cv-00147-PB Document 8 Filed 05/21/14 Page 1 of 2 2 6. On April 15, 2014, I sent by registered mail, return receipt requested, a copy of the Summons and Complaint to the Civil Process Clerk at the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of New Hampshire Insurance Company, 54 Pleasant Street, 4th Floor,, Concord, NH 03301, in compliance with Fed. R. Civ. P. 4(i). 7. I received a Registered Mail return receipt indicating that the Summons and Complaint were received and signed for on April 17, 2014. See return receipt attached hereto as Exhibit B. 8. On April 15, 2014, I sent by registered mail, return receipt requested, a copy of the Summons and Complaint to Eric H. Holder, the Attorney General for the United States, 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W., Washington, DC 20530, in compliance with Fed. R. Civ. P. 4(i). 9. I received a Registered Mail return receipt indicating that the Summons and Complaint were received and signed for on April 23, 2014. See return receipt attached hereto as Exhibit C. FURTHER AFFIANT SAYETH NOT. Signed under the pains and penalties of perjury this 21th day of May, 2014. /s/ Kenton J. Villano Kenton J. Villano MAY 21, 2014 Game on? |
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Posted: 5/21/2014 6:16:38 PM EDT
[#31]
I wouldn't mount that stupid looking thing on my truck exhaust, much less any rifle.
Pimps gotta pimp, I guess. |
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Posted: 5/21/2014 6:28:10 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The muzzle brake is assbackwards if you want to prevent muzzle rise. no it isn't. It would be if it vented to the top, but it vents to the side. the muzzle blast will encounter the closest part of the baffle first, pushing downwards. |
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Posted: 5/21/2014 6:35:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wouldn't mount that stupid looking thing on my truck exhaust, much less any rifle. Pimps gotta pimp, I guess. Must be hard to understand when you can't own such cool stuff. |
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Posted: 5/21/2014 6:40:01 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Must be hard to understand when you can't own such cool stuff. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I wouldn't mount that stupid looking thing on my truck exhaust, much less any rifle. Pimps gotta pimp, I guess. Must be hard to understand when you can't own such cool stuff. Crap, you know what I own? |
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Posted: 5/21/2014 8:27:17 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Crap, you know what I own? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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I wouldn't mount that stupid looking thing on my truck exhaust, much less any rifle. Pimps gotta pimp, I guess. Must be hard to understand when you can't own such cool stuff. Crap, you know what I own? I know that you as a individual couldn't own the suppressor in question in California if it ever went for sale. More than that it was a gentle nudge in response to your silly comment that added nothing to the discussion
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Posted: 5/21/2014 9:22:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wouldn't mount that stupid looking thing on my truck exhaust, much less any rifle. Pimps gotta pimp, I guess. It doesn't look stupid with a registered suppressor tube over it. |
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Posted: 5/21/2014 9:36:25 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It doesn't look stupid with a registered suppressor tube over it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I wouldn't mount that stupid looking thing on my truck exhaust, much less any rifle. Pimps gotta pimp, I guess. It doesn't look stupid with a registered suppressor tube over it. 
*Not CA legal 
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Posted: 5/21/2014 10:34:45 PM EDT
[#38]
When do the .45ACP/10mm versions come out?
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Posted: 5/22/2014 7:45:48 PM EDT
[#39]
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When do the .45ACP/10mm versions come out? I am very much hoping for that as well. |
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Posted: 5/22/2014 9:04:57 PM EDT
[#40]
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When do the .45ACP/10mm versions come out? No plans for them IIRC. However, they do plan a .357SIG version. |
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Posted: 5/22/2014 9:06:05 PM EDT
[#41]
I suddenly have the urge to buy a Sig. Good on them for not putting up with bully tactics
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Posted: 5/22/2014 9:42:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No plans for them IIRC. However, they do plan a .357SIG version. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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When do the .45ACP/10mm versions come out? No plans for them IIRC. However, they do plan a .357SIG version. 
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Posted: 5/22/2014 11:44:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No plans for them IIRC. However, they do plan a .357SIG version. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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When do the .45ACP/10mm versions come out? No plans for them IIRC. However, they do plan a .357SIG version. "Awesome"......said nobody. 
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Posted: 5/23/2014 12:49:56 AM EDT
[#44]
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"Awesome"......said nobody.
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When do the .45ACP/10mm versions come out? No plans for them IIRC. However, they do plan a .357SIG version. "Awesome"......said nobody.
10m /45 would be a whole different gun for the most part or a very long 9/40. The 9/40 also make up the lions share of PCC sales so it makes sense to start there. |
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Posted: 5/23/2014 1:14:48 AM EDT
[#45]
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10m /45 would be a whole different gun for the most part or a very long 9/40. The 9/40 also make up the lions share of PCC sales so it makes sense to start there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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When do the .45ACP/10mm versions come out? No plans for them IIRC. However, they do plan a .357SIG version. "Awesome"......said nobody.
10m /45 would be a whole different gun for the most part or a very long 9/40. The 9/40 also make up the lions share of PCC sales so it makes sense to start there. I want 10mm so I can hunt deer. |
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Posted: 5/23/2014 3:04:33 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I want 10mm so I can hunt deer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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When do the .45ACP/10mm versions come out? No plans for them IIRC. However, they do plan a .357SIG version. "Awesome"......said nobody.
10m /45 would be a whole different gun for the most part or a very long 9/40. The 9/40 also make up the lions share of PCC sales so it makes sense to start there. I want 10mm so I can hunt deer. Buy a HK clone |
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Posted: 5/23/2014 7:22:38 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I want 10mm so I can hunt deer. You can hunt deer with .40 in Ohio as long as its in "pistol" configuration. 10mm isn't on the new pistol caliber rifle list either. |
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Posted: 5/23/2014 8:13:12 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can hunt deer with .40 in Ohio as long as its in "pistol" configuration. 10mm isn't on the new pistol caliber rifle list either. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I want 10mm so I can hunt deer. You can hunt deer with .40 in Ohio as long as its in "pistol" configuration. 10mm isn't on the new pistol caliber rifle list either. 1. I'd use the pistol version. Ain't scared. 2. Fo-tay is ghey. |
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Posted: 5/24/2014 6:41:47 AM EDT
[#49]
Tag...
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Posted: 5/24/2014 11:48:11 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1. I'd use the pistol version. Ain't scared. 2. Fo-tay is ghey. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I want 10mm so I can hunt deer. You can hunt deer with .40 in Ohio as long as its in "pistol" configuration. 10mm isn't on the new pistol caliber rifle list either. 1. I'd use the pistol version. Ain't scared. 2. Fo-tay is ghey. Technically, it's legal in Tennessee to hunt deer with a .25acp handgun (unless they've changed the regs, again), while some years ago it was illegal to hunt deer in Tennessee with a .357mag handgun. If manufacturers tried to keep up with the hunting regs of each state (and the yearly changes), it would drive them nuts. |
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