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Posted: 4/18/2014 3:11:54 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Rural parents anyway. I think you hit upon the real issue with farm vs. urban parenting; and with the increasing urbanization of America, the problem is likely to grow worse over time. Here are a few things farm kids learn growing up and working on the farm or ranch - Strong work ethic - Feeding, upkeep, and maintenance are a daily part of farm life. Animals have to be taken care of by someone every day. You learn to become someone who can "get it done". Reliability - Things break, wear out, or die if you can't be relied upon to take care of them. You learn to become someone people can rely on. Sacrifice - It isn't always easy working on a farm, the work has to get done. Harvest isn't over by the 4th of July, momma cows having calves in the middle of a blizzard, you're wore out from harvesting or calving and yet the feeding, cooking, and cleaning all still have to be done. You learn to push through hardship instead of giving up because it's "too hard". You learn to be responsible for things under your care and protection. Self-sufficiency - Sometimes there no one else to help, they're busy with other things. You learn to think outside the box, you learn to plan for success, you learn confidence in your abilities. Teamwork - Sometimes those "other things" people are busy doing are part of a greater whole (like during harvest). Doing your part keeps everything flowing. Self-Esteem - Other kids may have to look for validation from others to feel good about themselves. You merely have to look upon the fruits of your labor to see that you have value. Most kids growing up in an urban environment have very limited exposure or opportunity to experience these things on a daily basis...and that's really a shame. It's been the core reason for America's success. When these kids become adults and enter the workforce, there aren't as many "tools in their toolbox" to deal with work in general and life in particular. They are self-centered, lazy, defeatist in adversity, unreliable, and always looking for the easy way out...or someone to do if for them. Is it any wonder the FSA grows year by year, generation by generation. And therein lies the problem. Urbanites look upon the farm community with incredulity and shock. They don't understand, because they have no frame of reference from which they can possibly understand. Pray that "FO Time" is a long, long way off. Pray that it never comes at all. Because on that day, when the lights go out and the infrastructure grinds to a halt; they will look at one another in their in their concrete jungle and they will understand...that it is too late for them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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. I don't have an opinion on the farm children issue, but I do have to ask. Is that any different than any other family-run business? If you ran an iron-smelting plant, to use an extreme example, should you be able to force your children to work in it? Or are there certain jobs which children should be prohibited from working, for their own safety. Edit: Granny grew up on a farm. Plucked chickens, gathered eggs, milked cows, working before and after school, that whole mess. Obviously non all farm jobs are dangerous. Parents--parents are perfectly capable to making decisions about such things. Government is <mostly> NOT needed. Obviously a few--and growing number, it would seem--parents are complete fuckups and shouldn't breed, but do anyway. Those aren't the type to own a farm or business. Leave them alone, and deal with the urban druggies and assorted miscreants who breed but can't even take care of themselves, let alone their spawn. Rural parents anyway. I think you hit upon the real issue with farm vs. urban parenting; and with the increasing urbanization of America, the problem is likely to grow worse over time. Here are a few things farm kids learn growing up and working on the farm or ranch - Strong work ethic - Feeding, upkeep, and maintenance are a daily part of farm life. Animals have to be taken care of by someone every day. You learn to become someone who can "get it done". Reliability - Things break, wear out, or die if you can't be relied upon to take care of them. You learn to become someone people can rely on. Sacrifice - It isn't always easy working on a farm, the work has to get done. Harvest isn't over by the 4th of July, momma cows having calves in the middle of a blizzard, you're wore out from harvesting or calving and yet the feeding, cooking, and cleaning all still have to be done. You learn to push through hardship instead of giving up because it's "too hard". You learn to be responsible for things under your care and protection. Self-sufficiency - Sometimes there no one else to help, they're busy with other things. You learn to think outside the box, you learn to plan for success, you learn confidence in your abilities. Teamwork - Sometimes those "other things" people are busy doing are part of a greater whole (like during harvest). Doing your part keeps everything flowing. Self-Esteem - Other kids may have to look for validation from others to feel good about themselves. You merely have to look upon the fruits of your labor to see that you have value. Most kids growing up in an urban environment have very limited exposure or opportunity to experience these things on a daily basis...and that's really a shame. It's been the core reason for America's success. When these kids become adults and enter the workforce, there aren't as many "tools in their toolbox" to deal with work in general and life in particular. They are self-centered, lazy, defeatist in adversity, unreliable, and always looking for the easy way out...or someone to do if for them. Is it any wonder the FSA grows year by year, generation by generation. And therein lies the problem. Urbanites look upon the farm community with incredulity and shock. They don't understand, because they have no frame of reference from which they can possibly understand. Pray that "FO Time" is a long, long way off. Pray that it never comes at all. Because on that day, when the lights go out and the infrastructure grinds to a halt; they will look at one another in their in their concrete jungle and they will understand...that it is too late for them. Great post. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 3:21:04 PM EDT
[#2]
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Great post. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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. Great post. Indeed. One of the best I've ever read. Ever. Bravo, Repairman_Jack!! 
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Posted: 4/18/2014 3:32:52 PM EDT
[#3]
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Indeed. One of the best I've ever read. Ever. Bravo, Repairman_Jack!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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. Great post. Indeed. One of the best I've ever read. Ever. Bravo, Repairman_Jack!! It's good to see him out of the magazine deals thread. 
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Posted: 4/18/2014 3:57:18 PM EDT
[#4]
I have not been posting HERE (except page 134) and had to bite my tongue 100 times because I was at a "cool kids" post count. Stupid I know.
I need the 92% to help me out ....HERE Post 666 The 8% are KICKING MY ASS 
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Posted: 4/18/2014 4:37:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Rural parents anyway. I think you hit upon the real issue with farm vs. urban parenting; and with the increasing urbanization of America, the problem is likely to grow worse over time. Here are a few things farm kids learn growing up and working on the farm or ranch - Strong work ethic - Feeding, upkeep, and maintenance are a daily part of farm life. Animals have to be taken care of by someone every day. You learn to become someone who can "get it done". Reliability - Things break, wear out, or die if you can't be relied upon to take care of them. You learn to become someone people can rely on. Sacrifice - It isn't always easy working on a farm, the work has to get done. Harvest isn't over by the 4th of July, momma cows having calves in the middle of a blizzard, you're wore out from harvesting or calving and yet the feeding, cooking, and cleaning all still have to be done. You learn to push through hardship instead of giving up because it's "too hard". You learn to be responsible for things under your care and protection. Self-sufficiency - Sometimes there no one else to help, they're busy with other things. You learn to think outside the box, you learn to plan for success, you learn confidence in your abilities. Teamwork - Sometimes those "other things" people are busy doing are part of a greater whole (like during harvest). Doing your part keeps everything flowing. Self-Esteem - Other kids may have to look for validation from others to feel good about themselves. You merely have to look upon the fruits of your labor to see that you have value. Most kids growing up in an urban environment have very limited exposure or opportunity to experience these things on a daily basis...and that's really a shame. It's been the core reason for America's success. When these kids become adults and enter the workforce, there aren't as many "tools in their toolbox" to deal with work in general and life in particular. They are self-centered, lazy, defeatist in adversity, unreliable, and always looking for the easy way out...or someone to do if for them. Is it any wonder the FSA grows year by year, generation by generation. And therein lies the problem. Urbanites look upon the farm community with incredulity and shock. They don't understand, because they have no frame of reference from which they can possibly understand. Pray that "FO Time" is a long, long way off. Pray that it never comes at all. Because on that day, when the lights go out and the infrastructure grinds to a halt; they will look at one another in their in their concrete jungle and they will understand...that it is too late for them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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. I don't have an opinion on the farm children issue, but I do have to ask. Is that any different than any other family-run business? If you ran an iron-smelting plant, to use an extreme example, should you be able to force your children to work in it? Or are there certain jobs which children should be prohibited from working, for their own safety. Edit: Granny grew up on a farm. Plucked chickens, gathered eggs, milked cows, working before and after school, that whole mess. Obviously non all farm jobs are dangerous. Parents--parents are perfectly capable to making decisions about such things. Government is <mostly> NOT needed. Obviously a few--and growing number, it would seem--parents are complete fuckups and shouldn't breed, but do anyway. Those aren't the type to own a farm or business. Leave them alone, and deal with the urban druggies and assorted miscreants who breed but can't even take care of themselves, let alone their spawn. Rural parents anyway. I think you hit upon the real issue with farm vs. urban parenting; and with the increasing urbanization of America, the problem is likely to grow worse over time. Here are a few things farm kids learn growing up and working on the farm or ranch - Strong work ethic - Feeding, upkeep, and maintenance are a daily part of farm life. Animals have to be taken care of by someone every day. You learn to become someone who can "get it done". Reliability - Things break, wear out, or die if you can't be relied upon to take care of them. You learn to become someone people can rely on. Sacrifice - It isn't always easy working on a farm, the work has to get done. Harvest isn't over by the 4th of July, momma cows having calves in the middle of a blizzard, you're wore out from harvesting or calving and yet the feeding, cooking, and cleaning all still have to be done. You learn to push through hardship instead of giving up because it's "too hard". You learn to be responsible for things under your care and protection. Self-sufficiency - Sometimes there no one else to help, they're busy with other things. You learn to think outside the box, you learn to plan for success, you learn confidence in your abilities. Teamwork - Sometimes those "other things" people are busy doing are part of a greater whole (like during harvest). Doing your part keeps everything flowing. Self-Esteem - Other kids may have to look for validation from others to feel good about themselves. You merely have to look upon the fruits of your labor to see that you have value. Most kids growing up in an urban environment have very limited exposure or opportunity to experience these things on a daily basis...and that's really a shame. It's been the core reason for America's success. When these kids become adults and enter the workforce, there aren't as many "tools in their toolbox" to deal with work in general and life in particular. They are self-centered, lazy, defeatist in adversity, unreliable, and always looking for the easy way out...or someone to do if for them. Is it any wonder the FSA grows year by year, generation by generation. And therein lies the problem. Urbanites look upon the farm community with incredulity and shock. They don't understand, because they have no frame of reference from which they can possibly understand. Pray that "FO Time" is a long, long way off. Pray that it never comes at all. Because on that day, when the lights go out and the infrastructure grinds to a halt; they will look at one another in their in their concrete jungle and they will understand...that it is too late for them. When that day comes Snips be forced to open his window and shout at everyone how it is ok. How the state is legally authorized to turn out the lights. How there is no cause for concern constitutionally speaking. ETA I believe government involvement in electricity regulation is well established and has been upheld by the courts several times. 
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Posted: 4/18/2014 5:07:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rural parents anyway. I think you hit upon the real issue with farm vs. urban parenting; and with the increasing urbanization of America, the problem is likely to grow worse over time. Here are a few things farm kids learn growing up and working on the farm or ranch - Strong work ethic - Feeding, upkeep, and maintenance are a daily part of farm life. Animals have to be taken care of by someone every day. You learn to become someone who can "get it done". Reliability - Things break, wear out, or die if you can't be relied upon to take care of them. You learn to become someone people can rely on. Sacrifice - It isn't always easy working on a farm, the work has to get done. Harvest isn't over by the 4th of July, momma cows having calves in the middle of a blizzard, you're wore out from harvesting or calving and yet the feeding, cooking, and cleaning all still have to be done. You learn to push through hardship instead of giving up because it's "too hard". You learn to be responsible for things under your care and protection. Self-sufficiency - Sometimes there no one else to help, they're busy with other things. You learn to think outside the box, you learn to plan for success, you learn confidence in your abilities. Teamwork - Sometimes those "other things" people are busy doing are part of a greater whole (like during harvest). Doing your part keeps everything flowing. Self-Esteem - Other kids may have to look for validation from others to feel good about themselves. You merely have to look upon the fruits of your labor to see that you have value. Most kids growing up in an urban environment have very limited exposure or opportunity to experience these things on a daily basis...and that's really a shame. It's been the core reason for America's success. When these kids become adults and enter the workforce, there aren't as many "tools in their toolbox" to deal with work in general and life in particular. They are self-centered, lazy, defeatist in adversity, unreliable, and always looking for the easy way out...or someone to do if for them. Is it any wonder the FSA grows year by year, generation by generation. And therein lies the problem. Urbanites look upon the farm community with incredulity and shock. They don't understand, because they have no frame of reference from which they can possibly understand. Pray that "FO Time" is a long, long way off. Pray that it never comes at all. Because on that day, when the lights go out and the infrastructure grinds to a halt; they will look at one another in their in their concrete jungle and they will understand...that it is too late for them. Very well said , sir ....especially THAT God how I wish more folks realized what you just typed out.  |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 5:11:36 PM EDT
[#7]
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IMO, this is what sent them packing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20140417&t=2&i=888510650&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=700&pl=378&r=CBREA3G1O3C00 Didn't see these pics before. IMO, this is what sent them packing. Was he in the right or wrong? |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 5:20:37 PM EDT
[#8]
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http://buzzpo.com/harry-reid-reveals-government-assembling-federal-task-force-bundy/ Harry Reid Reveals the Government is Assembling a Federal Task Force for Bundy Doesn't he know that Yeager dude is there? The feds are going to get ass raped! |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 5:23:57 PM EDT
[#9]
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IMO, this is what sent them packing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20140417&t=2&i=888510650&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=700&pl=378&r=CBREA3G1O3C00 Didn't see these pics before. IMO, this is what sent them packing. Like I said before, I think people said "Fuck it. Close enough. Prolly bring JBTs" |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 5:25:41 PM EDT
[#10]
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If this is true, why didn't they just take out Bundy and his family in 2012? Weren't any cameras back then that I know of. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20140417&t=2&i=888510650&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=700&pl=378&r=CBREA3G1O3C00 Didn't see these pics before. IMO, this is what sent them packing. I think it was the totality of the situation: total amount of people, cameras, guns, everything. If this is true, why didn't they just take out Bundy and his family in 2012? Weren't any cameras back then that I know of. This would have been bad in an election year. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 5:32:40 PM EDT
[#11]
I just watched Marc Theissen (GWB speech writer) give his analysis of why Harry Reid is calling Bundy supporters terrorists. His point was that if Bundy supporters are seen as terrorists then the federal government would be seen as justified in having 200 troops with snipers and machine guns. If the public viewed Bundy supporters as patriots then the BLM troops look like the aggressors and out of line.
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Posted: 4/18/2014 5:34:15 PM EDT
[#12]
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Like I said before, I think people said "Fuck it. Close enough. Prolly bring JBTs" Quote HistoryQuoted:
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http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20140417&t=2&i=888510650&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=700&pl=378&r=CBREA3G1O3C00 Didn't see these pics before. IMO, this is what sent them packing. Like I said before, I think people said "Fuck it. Close enough. Prolly bring JBTs" The fact that so many people showed up, and many of those people showed up armed, tells me that people have had enough of being bullied by the government. We've simply reached our limit. Those who sit in seats of power today are no more allowed to take our rights away than those that ruled over 200 years ago. We're finally waking up to that fact. There is no difference between "our" government in 1775 violating our rights and "our" government in 2014 doing the same. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 5:56:52 PM EDT
[#13]
Anyone else watch Dinesh on Meagan Kelly's show?
Seems like a good dude. I liked his 2016 movie. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 5:59:22 PM EDT
[#14]
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Anyone else watch Dinesh on Meagan Kelly's show? Seems like a good dude. I liked his 2016 movie. I just saw that a bit ago. Hoping he's doing something to document this as part of some "the government is out of control" movie or something. Did you hear him say that all those people - men, women, children - are wearing "Domestic Terrorist" nametags? 
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Posted: 4/18/2014 6:08:23 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They weren't going to raid anything. Just round up the cattle that were on BLM lands and demo the water stations. The full-on SWAT raid is exactly what Bundy wants, and BLM is going to avoid something like this at all costs. Bundy has alluded to this for 16+ years. He's basically worked out this template that makes him volatile enough to frighten people, but not quite enough for the local authorities to arrest him for threats. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What happened to the imminent SWAT raid? They weren't going to raid anything. Just round up the cattle that were on BLM lands and demo the water stations. The full-on SWAT raid is exactly what Bundy wants, and BLM is going to avoid something like this at all costs. Bundy has alluded to this for 16+ years. He's basically worked out this template that makes him volatile enough to frighten people, but not quite enough for the local authorities to arrest him for threats.  |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 6:08:28 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 4/18/2014 6:10:43 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Representative Stockman looks like an idiot if that's the statute to which he's pointing. We may not be happy with the law, but BLM is acting within it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Representative Stockman looks like an idiot if that's the statute to which he's pointing. We may not be happy with the law, but BLM is acting within it. You know there is a point in which you should stop talking. You've reached that point. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 6:14:54 PM EDT
[#18]
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Only if you changed what you charged him and then said he could no longer use the drivewway or walk in the yard or turn on the AC. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This whole things kind of reminds me of a renter I had in the past that decided he was no longer going to pay me rent but felt he should still be allowed to stay there since he had been renting the house for years Only if you changed what you charged him and then said he could no longer use the drivewway or walk in the yard or turn on the AC. I posted some reasonably detailed grazing cost information earlier. The part in bold wasn't a particularly persuasive argument. ETA: The Federal grazing fee, which applies to Federal lands in 16 Western states on public lands managed by the BLM and the U.S. Forest Service, is adjusted annually and is calculated by using a formula originally set by Congress in the Public Rangelands Improvement Act of 1978. Under this formula, as modified and extended by a presidential Executive Order issued in 1986, the grazing fee cannot fall below $1.35 per animal unit month (AUM);
http://www.blm.gov/or/resources/rangelands/index.php and for more detailed information: http://www.westernwatersheds.org/reports/GAO-grazing-report-2005.pdf |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 6:16:09 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote History87 times so far. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 6:22:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know there is a point in which you should stop talking. You've reached that point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Representative Stockman looks like an idiot if that's the statute to which he's pointing. We may not be happy with the law, but BLM is acting within it. You know there is a point in which you should stop talking. You've reached that point. Please pull up the applicable section of US Code and show me how I'm reading things incorrectly. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 6:22:26 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great post. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: . I don't have an opinion on the farm children issue, but I do have to ask. Is that any different than any other family-run business? If you ran an iron-smelting plant, to use an extreme example, should you be able to force your children to work in it? Or are there certain jobs which children should be prohibited from working, for their own safety. Edit: Granny grew up on a farm. Plucked chickens, gathered eggs, milked cows, working before and after school, that whole mess. Obviously non all farm jobs are dangerous. Parents--parents are perfectly capable to making decisions about such things. Government is <mostly> NOT needed. Obviously a few--and growing number, it would seem--parents are complete fuckups and shouldn't breed, but do anyway. Those aren't the type to own a farm or business. Leave them alone, and deal with the urban druggies and assorted miscreants who breed but can't even take care of themselves, let alone their spawn. Rural parents anyway. I think you hit upon the real issue with farm vs. urban parenting; and with the increasing urbanization of America, the problem is likely to grow worse over time. Here are a few things farm kids learn growing up and working on the farm or ranch - Strong work ethic - Feeding, upkeep, and maintenance are a daily part of farm life. Animals have to be taken care of by someone every day. You learn to become someone who can "get it done". Reliability - Things break, wear out, or die if you can't be relied upon to take care of them. You learn to become someone people can rely on. Sacrifice - It isn't always easy working on a farm, the work has to get done. Harvest isn't over by the 4th of July, momma cows having calves in the middle of a blizzard, you're wore out from harvesting or calving and yet the feeding, cooking, and cleaning all still have to be done. You learn to push through hardship instead of giving up because it's "too hard". You learn to be responsible for things under your care and protection. Self-sufficiency - Sometimes there no one else to help, they're busy with other things. You learn to think outside the box, you learn to plan for success, you learn confidence in your abilities. Teamwork - Sometimes those "other things" people are busy doing are part of a greater whole (like during harvest). Doing your part keeps everything flowing. Self-Esteem - Other kids may have to look for validation from others to feel good about themselves. You merely have to look upon the fruits of your labor to see that you have value. Most kids growing up in an urban environment have very limited exposure or opportunity to experience these things on a daily basis...and that's really a shame. It's been the core reason for America's success. When these kids become adults and enter the workforce, there aren't as many "tools in their toolbox" to deal with work in general and life in particular. They are self-centered, lazy, defeatist in adversity, unreliable, and always looking for the easy way out...or someone to do if for them. Is it any wonder the FSA grows year by year, generation by generation. And therein lies the problem. Urbanites look upon the farm community with incredulity and shock. They don't understand, because they have no frame of reference from which they can possibly understand. Pray that "FO Time" is a long, long way off. Pray that it never comes at all. Because on that day, when the lights go out and the infrastructure grinds to a halt; they will look at one another in their in their concrete jungle and they will understand...that it is too late for them. Great post. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 6:32:35 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Snips why do you side with folks that want to rip freedom from the very people that support this country? This regulation was shot down thank God and good people. Why would you support the ones who pushed this. Or this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Snips why do you side with folks that want to rip freedom from the very people that support this country? This regulation was shot down thank God and good people. Why would you support the ones who pushed this. A proposal from the Obama administration to prevent children from doing farm chores has drawn plenty of criticism from rural-district members of Congress. But now it’s attracting barbs from farm kids themselves. The Department of Labor is poised to put the finishing touches on a rule that would apply child labor laws to children working on family farms, prohibiting them from performing a list of jobs on their own families’ land. Under the rules, most children under 18 could no longer work "in the storing, marketing and transporting of farm product raw materials.” Or this. New EPA regulations have some Northern Michigan dairy farmers crying over spilled milk. The Environmental Protection Agency intends to classify milk as a hazardous waste; in the same category as oil. That means, farmers would have to come up with an oil spill prevention plan which could cost them thousands of dollars. The Senate Agricultural Committee passed a resolution today urging the EPA to take back those regulations. Snips, please read this. Then reread it. Then reread it. Then in a glimmer of hope, I pray you still have some common sense left. Then tell me if this makes sense to you? Is this common sense? Can you tell me that "We the People" are not being REGULATED to death? Is it legal? Yep. Is it right? Just because somebody voted for it doesn't make it right. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 6:36:40 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Young farm kids should be limited in what dangerous farming-related tasks they can do I thought that when many of those regs were first proposed the fine print wasn't read and actually work done on the kids own farm was not as restricted as work done outside the family farm.. Spilled milk in large quantities can do a lot of damage. I recall instances where the milk killed fish in streams, for instance. Seems to be reasonable to expect some kind of advance planning to prevent that damage from occurring.. Any better examples you can post than that? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Snips why do you side with folks that want to rip freedom from the very people that support this country? This regulation was shot down thank God and good people. Why would you support the ones who pushed this. A proposal from the Obama administration to prevent children from doing farm chores has drawn plenty of criticism from rural-district members of Congress. But now it’s attracting barbs from farm kids themselves. The Department of Labor is poised to put the finishing touches on a rule that would apply child labor laws to children working on family farms, prohibiting them from performing a list of jobs on their own families’ land. Under the rules, most children under 18 could no longer work "in the storing, marketing and transporting of farm product raw materials.” Or this. New EPA regulations have some Northern Michigan dairy farmers crying over spilled milk. The Environmental Protection Agency intends to classify milk as a hazardous waste; in the same category as oil. That means, farmers would have to come up with an oil spill prevention plan which could cost them thousands of dollars. The Senate Agricultural Committee passed a resolution today urging the EPA to take back those regulations. Young farm kids should be limited in what dangerous farming-related tasks they can do I thought that when many of those regs were first proposed the fine print wasn't read and actually work done on the kids own farm was not as restricted as work done outside the family farm.. Spilled milk in large quantities can do a lot of damage. I recall instances where the milk killed fish in streams, for instance. Seems to be reasonable to expect some kind of advance planning to prevent that damage from occurring.. Any better examples you can post than that?  If you can put it in your body, it's not fucking HAZARDOUS! |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 6:37:10 PM EDT
[#24]
Where's the video of the Fed withdrawal? I know I saw it somewhere... Powerful stuff, watching the protesters approach the gate, agree to back up, and the BLM and Park Rangers fleeing.
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Posted: 4/18/2014 6:38:14 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Indeed. One of the best I've ever read. Ever. Bravo, Repairman_Jack!! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: . Great post. Indeed. One of the best I've ever read. Ever. Bravo, Repairman_Jack!! Yes it is....+87. There are a number of posters in this thread that have no idea about what goes on in western rural culture, urbanites even in the west still have no idea. It is still a free and independent spirit. My kids were driving a tractor by the age of 9 and a combine by 12, working from sunup to well past sundown. You know, even if you think Bundy is a loon or not, if I made a deal with him and shook hands, there is no doubt in my mind at all, that it would be better than any written contract. Believe it or not, deals are still sealed with a handshake and your word in this area. You can quote all the codes you want and anything else you want to, but it doesn't mean shit out here. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 6:43:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
87 times so far. Quote HistoryQuoted:
87 times so far. As big as this thread is, duplicate posts is probably a good idea. Lest we forget. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 6:47:53 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Please pull up the applicable section of US Code and show me how I'm reading things incorrectly. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Representative Stockman looks like an idiot if that's the statute to which he's pointing. We may not be happy with the law, but BLM is acting within it. You know there is a point in which you should stop talking. You've reached that point. Please pull up the applicable section of US Code and show me how I'm reading things incorrectly. Please show me in the US Constitution that it gives a Fed bureaucracy the absolute right to decide what happens on any land in the US other than DC? Why the hell does the Fed govt control 87% of Nevada? How does that even happen? |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 6:48:17 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As big as this thread is, duplicate posts is probably a good idea. Lest we forget. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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87 times so far. As big as this thread is, duplicate posts is probably a good idea. Lest we forget. I have been following as much as possible but had not seen that. Bravo to that reporter. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 6:54:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I posted some reasonably detailed grazing cost information earlier. The part in bold wasn't a particularly persuasive argument. ETA: and for more detailed information: http://www.westernwatersheds.org/reports/GAO-grazing-report-2005.pdf Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This whole things kind of reminds me of a renter I had in the past that decided he was no longer going to pay me rent but felt he should still be allowed to stay there since he had been renting the house for years Only if you changed what you charged him and then said he could no longer use the drivewway or walk in the yard or turn on the AC. I posted some reasonably detailed grazing cost information earlier. The part in bold wasn't a particularly persuasive argument. ETA: The Federal grazing fee, which applies to Federal lands in 16 Western states on public lands managed by the BLM and the U.S. Forest Service, is adjusted annually and is calculated by using a formula originally set by Congress in the Public Rangelands Improvement Act of 1978. Under this formula, as modified and extended by a presidential Executive Order issued in 1986, the grazing fee cannot fall below $1.35 per animal unit month (AUM);
http://www.blm.gov/or/resources/rangelands/index.php and for more detailed information: http://www.westernwatersheds.org/reports/GAO-grazing-report-2005.pdf Any information put out by the federal government shouldn't be trusted for accuracy. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 6:56:32 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Today, is my first time to put someone on "Ignore" and it was not even Snips. tcc556 or whatever,he does not have a clue. It's not the first time he has shown up to bash the "small town" mindset. For some reason the dude has a real dislike of rural america. Check this thread: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1581148&page=2 |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:00:36 PM EDT
[#31]
It appears that the BLM also thinks it is above Federal Court rulings, defying a Fed Court order also.... |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:11:25 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is precisely the reason why the Left worked so hard at equating the 2nd Amendment with hunting. We all need to remember that. If the 2A is about hunting, then everything beyond that (like what happened in NV) is muy malo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So exercising the 1st and 2nd amendment rights is terrorism? Got it. This is precisely the reason why the Left worked so hard at equating the 2nd Amendment with hunting. We all need to remember that. If the 2A is about hunting, then everything beyond that (like what happened in NV) is muy malo. I think that some of the equation of hunting = 2nd Amendment has also evolved from our fellow gun owners as well..I have met such people. They don't believe for an instant that the 2nd is meant for anything but hunting / self defense. They have reacted with actual embarrassment when i explained the real reason for the 2nd's existence. . The lefts deceptions are many-fold and quite convoluted to say the least.They have corrupted nearly everything |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:21:19 PM EDT
[#33]
Operation American Spring Congressional Packet Sent to EVERY DC Representative
http://www.saveamericafoundation.com/2014/04/18/oas-congressional-packet/nggallery/image/oas_submission_to_congress_april_2014_10001/ Here is the Operation American Spring packet that was sent to the American Congress. You can find some more information by following this link http://calltoaction.oas2014.com/15040/americas-demands/ or coping and pasting the link into your web browser’s url bar. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:26:12 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think that some of the equation of hunting = 2nd Amendment has also evolved from our fellow gun owners as well..I have met such people. They don't believe for an instant that the 2nd is meant for anything but hunting / self defense. They have reacted with actual embarrassment when i explained the real reason for the 2nd's existence. The lefts deceptions are many-fold and quite convoluted to say the least.They have corrupted nearly everything ... worth repeating |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:28:43 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Snips, please read this. Then reread it. Then reread it. Then in a glimmer of hope, I pray you still have some common sense left. Then tell me if this makes sense to you? Is this common sense? Can you tell me that "We the People" are not being REGULATED to death? Is it legal? Yep. Is it right? Just because somebody voted for it doesn't make it right. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Snips why do you side with folks that want to rip freedom from the very people that support this country? This regulation was shot down thank God and good people. Why would you support the ones who pushed this. A proposal from the Obama administration to prevent children from doing farm chores has drawn plenty of criticism from rural-district members of Congress. But now it’s attracting barbs from farm kids themselves. The Department of Labor is poised to put the finishing touches on a rule that would apply child labor laws to children working on family farms, prohibiting them from performing a list of jobs on their own families’ land. Under the rules, most children under 18 could no longer work "in the storing, marketing and transporting of farm product raw materials.” Or this. New EPA regulations have some Northern Michigan dairy farmers crying over spilled milk. The Environmental Protection Agency intends to classify milk as a hazardous waste; in the same category as oil. That means, farmers would have to come up with an oil spill prevention plan which could cost them thousands of dollars. The Senate Agricultural Committee passed a resolution today urging the EPA to take back those regulations. Snips, please read this. Then reread it. Then reread it. Then in a glimmer of hope, I pray you still have some common sense left. Then tell me if this makes sense to you? Is this common sense? Can you tell me that "We the People" are not being REGULATED to death? Is it legal? Yep. Is it right? Just because somebody voted for it doesn't make it right. And if you disagree with it, the proper recourse today is to work through the courts and the ballot box. Not to grab a gun and threaten to kill officials. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:29:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please show me in the US Constitution that it gives a Fed bureaucracy the absolute right to decide what happens on any land in the US other than DC? Why the hell does the Fed govt control 87% of Nevada? How does that even happen? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Representative Stockman looks like an idiot if that's the statute to which he's pointing. We may not be happy with the law, but BLM is acting within it. You know there is a point in which you should stop talking. You've reached that point. Please pull up the applicable section of US Code and show me how I'm reading things incorrectly. Please show me in the US Constitution that it gives a Fed bureaucracy the absolute right to decide what happens on any land in the US other than DC? Why the hell does the Fed govt control 87% of Nevada? How does that even happen? You're shitting me, right? That's been shown over and over again through out this thread. 
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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:33:26 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It appears that the BLM also thinks it is above Federal Court rulings, defying a Fed Court order also.... http://ecowatch.com/2013/05/17/blm-fails-comply-court-order-refuses-transparency/ Quote HistoryQuoted:
It appears that the BLM also thinks it is above Federal Court rulings, defying a Fed Court order also.... http://ecowatch.com/2013/05/17/blm-fails-comply-court-order-refuses-transparency/ There is a lot of dirt with the BLM. I have posted this before but it needs repeating and passed around. Abstract
Typically, the federal government defends itself vigorously against lawsuits challenging its actions. But not always: Sometimes regulators are only too happy to face collusive lawsuits by friendly “foes” that are aimed at compelling government action that would otherwise be difficult or impossible to achieve. Rather than defend these cases, regulators settle them in a phenomenon known as “sue and settle.” This tactic has exploded under the Obama Administration, costing the economy tens of billions of dollars while eroding political accountability and public participation in government. There are solutions: The executive branch should return to the principles adopted during the Reagan Administration by Attorney General Edwin Meese III, and Congress should require transparency and accountability in settlements that commit agencies to action Key Points 1 "Sue and settle" is a tactic by which agencies settle cases through consent decrees that voluntarily cede lawful agency discretion. These cases typically arise from private lawsuits that seek to commit the defendant agency to issue regulations by a set deadline. 2 This tactic has exploded under the Obama Administration, costing the economy tens of billions of dollars while eroding political accountability and public participation in government. 3 The Obama Administration’s increased reliance on consent-decree settlements to further its regulatory agenda is a shortsighted strategy. Whatever benefits this model offers in the short term are undermined by the risk that poorly reasoned regulations will be struck down by the courts or reversed by a future Administration. 4 There is, however, a solution to the sue and settle scheme: The executive branch should adopt the Meese Policy. Failing action by the executive branch, Congress should still force agencies to honor sound rulemaking procedures. Link |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:45:47 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please show me in the US Constitution that it gives a Fed bureaucracy the absolute right to decide what happens on any land in the US other than DC? Why the hell does the Fed govt control 87% of Nevada? How does that even happen? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Representative Stockman looks like an idiot if that's the statute to which he's pointing. We may not be happy with the law, but BLM is acting within it. You know there is a point in which you should stop talking. You've reached that point. Please pull up the applicable section of US Code and show me how I'm reading things incorrectly. Please show me in the US Constitution that it gives a Fed bureaucracy the absolute right to decide what happens on any land in the US other than DC? Why the hell does the Fed govt control 87% of Nevada? How does that even happen? I made a metaphorical statement based upon a very specific section of US Code that representative Stockman quoted. Stockman was pointing to a very specific paragraph in leveling charges of illegality. My comments were very limited in scope. I'm not talking about broader constitutional issues here. Stuff like that is outside of my league. I'm merely looking at being compliant within the letter and spirit of the law. In my simple mind, that essentially comes down to examining the section quoted by Stockman, and determining if BLM acted in compliance with that section. A US Representative is saying that BLM is violating a very specific law. I'm saying they aren't in violation of that section of US Code. You seem to be saying that Title 43 of the US Code is unconstitutional in itself. .... So, BLM is violating an unconstitutional law? |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:48:12 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any information put out by the federal government shouldn't be trusted for accuracy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This whole things kind of reminds me of a renter I had in the past that decided he was no longer going to pay me rent but felt he should still be allowed to stay there since he had been renting the house for years Only if you changed what you charged him and then said he could no longer use the drivewway or walk in the yard or turn on the AC. I posted some reasonably detailed grazing cost information earlier. The part in bold wasn't a particularly persuasive argument. ETA: The Federal grazing fee, which applies to Federal lands in 16 Western states on public lands managed by the BLM and the U.S. Forest Service, is adjusted annually and is calculated by using a formula originally set by Congress in the Public Rangelands Improvement Act of 1978. Under this formula, as modified and extended by a presidential Executive Order issued in 1986, the grazing fee cannot fall below $1.35 per animal unit month (AUM);
http://www.blm.gov/or/resources/rangelands/index.php and for more detailed information: http://www.westernwatersheds.org/reports/GAO-grazing-report-2005.pdf Any information put out by the federal government shouldn't be trusted for accuracy. Fine, then let's toss in a +10% error on all of the numbers listed in the above mentioned documents. Does that really have a material effect? ETA: Factoring in this +10% error, it would now cost me $35.86 to graze my goat on the deck of a Nimitz-class carrier. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 8:03:28 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you really think the number willing to enforce tyranny outnumber the number willing to protest it? I don't think so. I think a lot of those enforcers were duped this time. I think a lot of them will be asking more questions before they are made to look like jackasses and JBT's again. I think a lot more people would show up if needed. And you don't always need superior numbers to get your point heard. Look at the civil rights movement. Blacks were what 5-8% of the population in the US? There are a LOT more rural landowners than faggots in this country. Usually they are too busy working and paying taxes to get all worked up over what they see as the business of someone else. But what you saw at the Bundy Ranch was people seeing that it is becoming an issue big enough for common concern. It takes a great fool to get the rural landowner demographic worked up. I can only think of a few times in our history it has happened. Once was the Revolution, the other was the civil war. Feds were smart for going home. They'd be even smarter to unfuck themselves permanently and implement changes to the land management bureaucracies that stop this ever growing land grab and railroading of rural landowners. If the Executive can't figure it out, Congress needs to make some changes. We've already established the root of the problem is laws that are too lenient and negate the entire system of governmental checks and balances regarding land use. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Exactly what I was thinking. Next time they will bring in more and have several rings of security for such an operation. This thing exploded in a very short period of time. Do you really think the number willing to enforce tyranny outnumber the number willing to protest it? I don't think so. I think a lot of those enforcers were duped this time. I think a lot of them will be asking more questions before they are made to look like jackasses and JBT's again. I think a lot more people would show up if needed. And you don't always need superior numbers to get your point heard. Look at the civil rights movement. Blacks were what 5-8% of the population in the US? There are a LOT more rural landowners than faggots in this country. Usually they are too busy working and paying taxes to get all worked up over what they see as the business of someone else. But what you saw at the Bundy Ranch was people seeing that it is becoming an issue big enough for common concern. It takes a great fool to get the rural landowner demographic worked up. I can only think of a few times in our history it has happened. Once was the Revolution, the other was the civil war. Feds were smart for going home. They'd be even smarter to unfuck themselves permanently and implement changes to the land management bureaucracies that stop this ever growing land grab and railroading of rural landowners. If the Executive can't figure it out, Congress needs to make some changes. We've already established the root of the problem is laws that are too lenient and negate the entire system of governmental checks and balances regarding land use. I think they came in totally unprepared. If I was planning it the area I take control of would be three time or more greater. Establish road blocks farther out. IMO a lot this spun out of their control because they did not do enough planning and did not have enough control from the start. I could be wrong. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 8:07:16 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Great post. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
. I don't have an opinion on the farm children issue, but I do have to ask. Is that any different than any other family-run business? If you ran an iron-smelting plant, to use an extreme example, should you be able to force your children to work in it? Or are there certain jobs which children should be prohibited from working, for their own safety. Edit: Granny grew up on a farm. Plucked chickens, gathered eggs, milked cows, working before and after school, that whole mess. Obviously non all farm jobs are dangerous. Parents--parents are perfectly capable to making decisions about such things. Government is <mostly> NOT needed. Obviously a few--and growing number, it would seem--parents are complete fuckups and shouldn't breed, but do anyway. Those aren't the type to own a farm or business. Leave them alone, and deal with the urban druggies and assorted miscreants who breed but can't even take care of themselves, let alone their spawn. Rural parents anyway. I think you hit upon the real issue with farm vs. urban parenting; and with the increasing urbanization of America, the problem is likely to grow worse over time. Here are a few things farm kids learn growing up and working on the farm or ranch - Strong work ethic - Feeding, upkeep, and maintenance are a daily part of farm life. Animals have to be taken care of by someone every day. You learn to become someone who can "get it done". Reliability - Things break, wear out, or die if you can't be relied upon to take care of them. You learn to become someone people can rely on. Sacrifice - It isn't always easy working on a farm, the work has to get done. Harvest isn't over by the 4th of July, momma cows having calves in the middle of a blizzard, you're wore out from harvesting or calving and yet the feeding, cooking, and cleaning all still have to be done. You learn to push through hardship instead of giving up because it's "too hard". You learn to be responsible for things under your care and protection. Self-sufficiency - Sometimes there no one else to help, they're busy with other things. You learn to think outside the box, you learn to plan for success, you learn confidence in your abilities. Teamwork - Sometimes those "other things" people are busy doing are part of a greater whole (like during harvest). Doing your part keeps everything flowing. Self-Esteem - Other kids may have to look for validation from others to feel good about themselves. You merely have to look upon the fruits of your labor to see that you have value. Most kids growing up in an urban environment have very limited exposure or opportunity to experience these things on a daily basis...and that's really a shame. It's been the core reason for America's success. When these kids become adults and enter the workforce, there aren't as many "tools in their toolbox" to deal with work in general and life in particular. They are self-centered, lazy, defeatist in adversity, unreliable, and always looking for the easy way out...or someone to do if for them. Is it any wonder the FSA grows year by year, generation by generation. And therein lies the problem. Urbanites look upon the farm community with incredulity and shock. They don't understand, because they have no frame of reference from which they can possibly understand. Pray that "FO Time" is a long, long way off. Pray that it never comes at all. Because on that day, when the lights go out and the infrastructure grinds to a halt; they will look at one another in their in their concrete jungle and they will understand...that it is too late for them. Great post. great post except for one thing, the faggots who hire in corporations want those lazy fucks who spend their entire day on their cell phone, whose daddy paid for them to get a degree. (or you and me did) |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 8:08:02 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're shitting me, right? That's been shown over and over again through out this thread.
You were doing such a good job of softening your position. You've forgotten that some of us have figured out that you're either collecting data or pretending to collect data here. One day we will all know your name. Ask the Arnold family about their heritage. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 8:14:42 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The family of the Nevada rancher in a simmering feud with the federal government over rangeland rights is refocusing attention on the local sheriff, claiming he could put the standoff to rest with a wave of his hand. "He could stop this right now, and he knows that," Bailey Logue, daughter of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, recently told Fox News' "On the Record." Logue claimed all the sheriff has to do is say "no" to federal authorities who for years have gone after Bundy for unpaid grazing fees. "He has more power than all those feds do in this county. This is his county, he runs it. He has got full control over this county. If he says no, they have to back down," Logue said. Other supporters have made similar comments, suggesting Clark County Sheriff Douglas Gillespie can tell the federal Bureau of Land Management to high-tail out of Nevada. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/18/sheriff-caught-in-middle-over-nevada-rancher-feud/ |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 8:15:00 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was he in the right or wrong? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20140417&t=2&i=888510650&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=700&pl=378&r=CBREA3G1O3C00 Didn't see these pics before. IMO, this is what sent them packing. Was he in the right or wrong? I think it's complex. Did his actions maybe lead folks to say "whoa shooting is about to start and people are going to die, time to move out"? If he had not would the round up have been completed and everone go on their way? More than likely. When I see that picture, I see cross hairs on his skull and wonder when the 168 gr BTHP is going to impact. I think if that had happend the "militia" side would have opened up on the BLM. Then the BLM would have returned fire with Sheriff Mack using women as human shields. Do I think the next time the .gov does something like this will the initial response be greater? Yes. They won't let armed protesters get the high ground on their agents again. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 8:15:21 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think they came in totally unprepared. If I was planning it the area I take control of would be three time or more greater. Establish road blocks farther out. IMO a lot this spun out of their control because they did not do enough planning and did not have enough control from the start. I could be wrong. You need to look at the size of the area. There are dirt roads. Every wash is also used as a road. There are plenty of ways in, even from the Arizona side. They would have needed hundreds of people to try and secure every road. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 8:15:26 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And if you disagree with it, the proper recourse today is to worth through the courts and the ballot box. Not to grab a gun and threaten to kill officials. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Snips why do you side with folks that want to rip freedom from the very people that support this country? This regulation was shot down thank God and good people. Why would you support the ones who pushed this. A proposal from the Obama administration to prevent children from doing farm chores has drawn plenty of criticism from rural-district members of Congress. But now it’s attracting barbs from farm kids themselves. The Department of Labor is poised to put the finishing touches on a rule that would apply child labor laws to children working on family farms, prohibiting them from performing a list of jobs on their own families’ land. Under the rules, most children under 18 could no longer work "in the storing, marketing and transporting of farm product raw materials.” Or this. New EPA regulations have some Northern Michigan dairy farmers crying over spilled milk. The Environmental Protection Agency intends to classify milk as a hazardous waste; in the same category as oil. That means, farmers would have to come up with an oil spill prevention plan which could cost them thousands of dollars. The Senate Agricultural Committee passed a resolution today urging the EPA to take back those regulations. Snips, please read this. Then reread it. Then reread it. Then in a glimmer of hope, I pray you still have some common sense left. Then tell me if this makes sense to you? Is this common sense? Can you tell me that "We the People" are not being REGULATED to death? Is it legal? Yep. Is it right? Just because somebody voted for it doesn't make it right. And if you disagree with it, the proper recourse today is to worth through the courts and the ballot box. Not to grab a gun and threaten to kill officials. 
Absolutely, because those courts and representatives these days are impartial and have no agenda. That's an opinion, and fortunately, the minority. God, you are fucking amazing! I was little disappointed when I found out that staff wasn't letting Dave_A back into GD, but damn son, you are filling those shoes wonderfully. 
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Posted: 4/18/2014 8:18:55 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you can put it in your body, it's not fucking HAZARDOUS! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Snips why do you side with folks that want to rip freedom from the very people that support this country? This regulation was shot down thank God and good people. Why would you support the ones who pushed this. A proposal from the Obama administration to prevent children from doing farm chores has drawn plenty of criticism from rural-district members of Congress. But now it’s attracting barbs from farm kids themselves. The Department of Labor is poised to put the finishing touches on a rule that would apply child labor laws to children working on family farms, prohibiting them from performing a list of jobs on their own families’ land. Under the rules, most children under 18 could no longer work "in the storing, marketing and transporting of farm product raw materials.” Or this. New EPA regulations have some Northern Michigan dairy farmers crying over spilled milk. The Environmental Protection Agency intends to classify milk as a hazardous waste; in the same category as oil. That means, farmers would have to come up with an oil spill prevention plan which could cost them thousands of dollars. The Senate Agricultural Committee passed a resolution today urging the EPA to take back those regulations. Young farm kids should be limited in what dangerous farming-related tasks they can do I thought that when many of those regs were first proposed the fine print wasn't read and actually work done on the kids own farm was not as restricted as work done outside the family farm.. Spilled milk in large quantities can do a lot of damage. I recall instances where the milk killed fish in streams, for instance. Seems to be reasonable to expect some kind of advance planning to prevent that damage from occurring.. Any better examples you can post than that? If you can put it in your body, it's not fucking HAZARDOUS! Hazardous? No. But large amount of milk spilled in a stream or pond will cause a fish kill pretty quickly by creating a bacterial bloom which strips the water of its oxygen. Biology, how does it work? |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 8:22:11 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You need to look at the size of the area. There are dirt roads. Every wash is also used as a road. There are plenty of ways in, even from the Arizona side. They would have needed hundreds of people to try and secure every road. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think they came in totally unprepared. If I was planning it the area I take control of would be three time or more greater. Establish road blocks farther out. IMO a lot this spun out of their control because they did not do enough planning and did not have enough control from the start. I could be wrong. You need to look at the size of the area. There are dirt roads. Every wash is also used as a road. There are plenty of ways in, even from the Arizona side. They would have needed hundreds of people to try and secure every road. I go with lesson learned. Contract security with QRF's. It could be done. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 8:25:43 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Ray-Liotta-Laughing-In-Goodfellas-Gif.gif Absolutely, because those courts and representatives these days are impartial and have no agenda. That's an opinion, and fortunately, the minority. God, you are fucking amazing! I was little disappointed when I found out that staff wasn't letting Dave_A back into GD, but damn son, you are filling those shoes wonderfully. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Snips, please read this. Then reread it. Then reread it. Then in a glimmer of hope, I pray you still have some common sense left. Then tell me if this makes sense to you? Is this common sense? Can you tell me that "We the People" are not being REGULATED to death? Is it legal? Yep. Is it right? Just because somebody voted for it doesn't make it right. And if you disagree with it, the proper recourse today is to worth through the courts and the ballot box. Not to grab a gun and threaten to kill officials. http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Ray-Liotta-Laughing-In-Goodfellas-Gif.gif Absolutely, because those courts and representatives these days are impartial and have no agenda. That's an opinion, and fortunately, the minority. God, you are fucking amazing! I was little disappointed when I found out that staff wasn't letting Dave_A back into GD, but damn son, you are filling those shoes wonderfully. Minority of the posters voting in GD. Certainly not the minority of Americans. But I think it's interesting that you apparently think our electoral and judiciary systems are unusable and yet all you do about it is to sit behind a keyboard and whine. Very telling. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 8:28:54 PM EDT
[#50]
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I think they came in totally unprepared. If I was planning it the area I take control of would be three time or more greater. Establish road blocks farther out. IMO a lot this spun out of their control because they did not do enough planning and did not have enough control from the start. I could be wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Exactly what I was thinking. Next time they will bring in more and have several rings of security for such an operation. This thing exploded in a very short period of time. Do you really think the number willing to enforce tyranny outnumber the number willing to protest it? I don't think so. I think a lot of those enforcers were duped this time. I think a lot of them will be asking more questions before they are made to look like jackasses and JBT's again. I think a lot more people would show up if needed. And you don't always need superior numbers to get your point heard. Look at the civil rights movement. Blacks were what 5-8% of the population in the US? There are a LOT more rural landowners than faggots in this country. Usually they are too busy working and paying taxes to get all worked up over what they see as the business of someone else. But what you saw at the Bundy Ranch was people seeing that it is becoming an issue big enough for common concern. It takes a great fool to get the rural landowner demographic worked up. I can only think of a few times in our history it has happened. Once was the Revolution, the other was the civil war. Feds were smart for going home. They'd be even smarter to unfuck themselves permanently and implement changes to the land management bureaucracies that stop this ever growing land grab and railroading of rural landowners. If the Executive can't figure it out, Congress needs to make some changes. We've already established the root of the problem is laws that are too lenient and negate the entire system of governmental checks and balances regarding land use. I think they came in totally unprepared. If I was planning it the area I take control of would be three time or more greater. Establish road blocks farther out. IMO a lot this spun out of their control because they did not do enough planning and did not have enough control from the start. I could be wrong. I'm sure that there were a lot of lessons learned, or in the process of being learned by the feds. I only hope that the People learn from it too. The feds claim to have nearly everyone there identified, people need to figure out how they did it-I'm guessing ALPRS, and wireless/cellphone info or direct wireless connection to phones. Failing that, facial recognition with driver license photo databases will get the few that came with a buddy and didn't have a phone. As far as the Feds go, scene management will be a lot different in the future, with less warning, and people like Mr. Bundy will be grabbed up and removed before he can get people in to help. With 600 people at this raid, the feds would have a hard time getting a 3 or 4:1 manpower advantage scouring many departments and agencies for free warm bodies-much better to get in and out quick. Lot easier to dictate the narrative that way too. |
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