Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel

Log In

A valid email is required.
Password is required.
Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous
Page / 2
Basic
  • Member
  • Apr 2005
  • USA MO, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Apr 2005
  • USA MO, USA
  • Posts: 3516
  • Feedback: 100% (4)
  • Status: Offline
Posted: 3/28/2014 1:48:17 PM EST
Reading news stories of the Ruskies massing troops on the Ukrainian border, what are the Ukrainians preparing to do about it? It seems like they want sanctions, but are they moving troops towards the Russian border? They do realize that Vlad is coming one way or another, right?
2nd Amendment Film Maker
Avatar
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Apr 2001
  • USA VA, USA
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Apr 2001
  • USA VA, USA
  • Posts: 25190
  • Feedback: 100% (29)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 1:50:59 PM EST
Being that Obama convinced them to turn most of their evil baby killing weapons in, I would guess that they are just waiting for the Ruskies to go in dry.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
~William Pitt

@Semper_Fidelity on twitter
Basic
  • Member
  • Feb 2009
  • USA FL, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Feb 2009
  • USA FL, USA
  • Posts: 132
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 1:55:22 PM EST
What can they do?
Trouble Shooter
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Oct 2005
  • USA VA, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Oct 2005
  • USA VA, USA
  • Posts: 29062
  • Feedback: 100% (6)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 1:56:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/28/2014 1:56:56 PM EST by DragoMuseveni]
What is Ukraine doing to repeal a Russian invasion?

The Ukraine government is ordering its citizens to turn in their firearms.
Basic
  • Member
  • Apr 2006
  • USA IL, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Apr 2006
  • USA IL, USA
  • Posts: 510
  • Feedback: 100% (5)
  • Status: Online
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 1:59:35 PM EST
They dug a tank ditch along the border and replaced the defense minister with someone that will actually communicate with his commanders.
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2012
  • USA USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2012
  • USA USA
  • Posts: 10384
  • Feedback: 100% (2)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 1:59:56 PM EST
Stalling for time. Hopping the US and EU magically grow some balls and honor their treaties. What can they do? They lost a bunch of useful military equipment in the Crimea. The Ukraine does not lend itself to defense terrain wise.

Best they could hope for in a direct military conflict with Russia is make Russia pay heavily for every piece of ground it took, let Russia's shit logistical structure slow Russia's military down, and hope someone came to their aid. Feigns at massing useless armor in attempt to draw in Russian air assets and kill them with anti-aircraft. Drawing tanks into ambushes and then using shoot and scoot tactics. Showing up in the rear and destroying supply convoys. More or less fighting a conventional delaying action combined with a guerrilla war.

They will still lose but they might be able to make it so expensive for Russia that Russia ultimately backs down.
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
Mark Twain
Basic
  • Member
  • Nov 2010
  • USA USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Nov 2010
  • USA USA
  • Posts: 1111
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 2:06:45 PM EST
Changing all the street signs so the Russians invade Belarus instead.
Basic
  • Member
  • Oct 2005
  • DEU DEU
Basic
  • Member
  • Oct 2005
  • DEU DEU
  • Posts: 1402
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 2:11:15 PM EST
I´m guessing they are preparing to draw any confrontation out... the Russians have poor logistical planning and Ukrianians will be supplied by the UK/Poland/Japan/US with Manpads and training if only the military confrontation isn't over in five days.
Basic
  • Member
  • May 2013
  • USA ID, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • May 2013
  • USA ID, USA
  • Posts: 239
  • Feedback: 100% (12)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 2:13:27 PM EST
Why do people keep calling it "The Ukraine"? It's not "The Germany" or "The France".
For Equestria!!
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Oct 2013
  • USA IA, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Oct 2013
  • USA IA, USA
  • Posts: 3035
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 2:15:15 PM EST
Nothing they really can do right now. For the future, they would have to build themselves up military - which they do not have the money to do. They are in a tough position really.
13'er Strong
Member
Avatar
Lifetime Member
  • Life Member
  • Jul 2012
  • USA TX, USA
Lifetime Member
  • Life Member
  • Jul 2012
  • USA TX, USA
Military
  • Posts: 1817
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 2:17:13 PM EST
They're hoping for change.
"Socialism is for the masses, not for the socialists." - Luchs
One of the good "13ers"
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Jan 2013
  • USA CA, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Jan 2013
  • USA CA, USA
  • Posts: 1322
  • Feedback: 100% (2)
  • Status: Online
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 2:18:41 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By joshdb50:
They're hoping for change.
View Quote

this change?
For Equestria!!
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Oct 2013
  • USA IA, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Oct 2013
  • USA IA, USA
  • Posts: 3036
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 2:19:59 PM EST
Yeah, he has worked out real well helping them so far, hasn't he
13'er Strong
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Jan 2013
  • SOM SOM
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Jan 2013
  • SOM SOM
  • Posts: 701
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Online
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 2:30:58 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BlckM70:
Why do people keep calling it "The Ukraine"? It's not "The Germany" or "The France".
View Quote


They are competing with The Hague, The Vatican, and The United States.

Charter member of the Modern Republic of West Florida. Long may the Bonnie Blue wave!
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Sep 2006
  • USA FL, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Sep 2006
  • USA FL, USA
  • Posts: 9156
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 2:31:17 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By beardog30:
Stalling for time. Hopping the US and EU magically grow some balls and honor their treaties. What can they do? They lost a bunch of useful military equipment in the Crimea. The Ukraine does not lend itself to defense terrain wise.

Best they could hope for in a direct military conflict with Russia is make Russia pay heavily for every piece of ground it took, let Russia's shit logistical structure slow Russia's military down, and hope someone came to their aid. Feigns at massing useless armor in attempt to draw in Russian air assets and kill them with anti-aircraft. Drawing tanks into ambushes and then using shoot and scoot tactics. Showing up in the rear and destroying supply convoys. More or less fighting a conventional delaying action combined with a guerrilla war.

They will still lose but they might be able to make it so expensive for Russia that Russia ultimately backs down.
View Quote

Exactly under what treaty are we supposed to go in and fight for them while being attacked with conventional weapons?
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2012
  • USA USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2012
  • USA USA
  • Posts: 10387
  • Feedback: 100% (2)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 2:32:33 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By klinc:

Exactly under what treaty are we supposed to go in and fight for them while being attacked with conventional weapons?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By klinc:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
Stalling for time. Hopping the US and EU magically grow some balls and honor their treaties. What can they do? They lost a bunch of useful military equipment in the Crimea. The Ukraine does not lend itself to defense terrain wise.

Best they could hope for in a direct military conflict with Russia is make Russia pay heavily for every piece of ground it took, let Russia's shit logistical structure slow Russia's military down, and hope someone came to their aid. Feigns at massing useless armor in attempt to draw in Russian air assets and kill them with anti-aircraft. Drawing tanks into ambushes and then using shoot and scoot tactics. Showing up in the rear and destroying supply convoys. More or less fighting a conventional delaying action combined with a guerrilla war.

They will still lose but they might be able to make it so expensive for Russia that Russia ultimately backs down.

Exactly under what treaty are we supposed to go in and fight for them while being attacked with conventional weapons?

The one where we guaranteed their sovereignty for giving up their nuclear capabilities.
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
Mark Twain
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Sep 2006
  • USA FL, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Sep 2006
  • USA FL, USA
  • Posts: 9157
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 2:35:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/28/2014 2:39:37 PM EST by klinc]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By beardog30:

The one where we guaranteed their sovereignty for giving up their nuclear capabilities.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By beardog30:
Originally Posted By klinc:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
Stalling for time. Hopping the US and EU magically grow some balls and honor their treaties. What can they do? They lost a bunch of useful military equipment in the Crimea. The Ukraine does not lend itself to defense terrain wise.

Best they could hope for in a direct military conflict with Russia is make Russia pay heavily for every piece of ground it took, let Russia's shit logistical structure slow Russia's military down, and hope someone came to their aid. Feigns at massing useless armor in attempt to draw in Russian air assets and kill them with anti-aircraft. Drawing tanks into ambushes and then using shoot and scoot tactics. Showing up in the rear and destroying supply convoys. More or less fighting a conventional delaying action combined with a guerrilla war.

They will still lose but they might be able to make it so expensive for Russia that Russia ultimately backs down.

Exactly under what treaty are we supposed to go in and fight for them while being attacked with conventional weapons?

The one where we guaranteed their sovereignty for giving up their nuclear capabilities.

Nope.


edit: Not to mention it's not even a treaty.
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2012
  • USA USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2012
  • USA USA
  • Posts: 10388
  • Feedback: 100% (2)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 2:39:13 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By klinc:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
Originally Posted By klinc:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
Stalling for time. Hopping the US and EU magically grow some balls and honor their treaties. What can they do? They lost a bunch of useful military equipment in the Crimea. The Ukraine does not lend itself to defense terrain wise.

Best they could hope for in a direct military conflict with Russia is make Russia pay heavily for every piece of ground it took, let Russia's shit logistical structure slow Russia's military down, and hope someone came to their aid. Feigns at massing useless armor in attempt to draw in Russian air assets and kill them with anti-aircraft. Drawing tanks into ambushes and then using shoot and scoot tactics. Showing up in the rear and destroying supply convoys. More or less fighting a conventional delaying action combined with a guerrilla war.

They will still lose but they might be able to make it so expensive for Russia that Russia ultimately backs down.

Exactly under what treaty are we supposed to go in and fight for them while being attacked with conventional weapons?

The one where we guaranteed their sovereignty for giving up their nuclear capabilities.

Nope.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ukraine._Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances


Yep
The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
Mark Twain
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Sep 2006
  • USA FL, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Sep 2006
  • USA FL, USA
  • Posts: 9158
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 2:40:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/28/2014 2:42:00 PM EST by klinc]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By beardog30:

Yep
The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By beardog30:
Originally Posted By klinc:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
Originally Posted By klinc:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
Stalling for time. Hopping the US and EU magically grow some balls and honor their treaties. What can they do? They lost a bunch of useful military equipment in the Crimea. The Ukraine does not lend itself to defense terrain wise.

Best they could hope for in a direct military conflict with Russia is make Russia pay heavily for every piece of ground it took, let Russia's shit logistical structure slow Russia's military down, and hope someone came to their aid. Feigns at massing useless armor in attempt to draw in Russian air assets and kill them with anti-aircraft. Drawing tanks into ambushes and then using shoot and scoot tactics. Showing up in the rear and destroying supply convoys. More or less fighting a conventional delaying action combined with a guerrilla war.

They will still lose but they might be able to make it so expensive for Russia that Russia ultimately backs down.

Exactly under what treaty are we supposed to go in and fight for them while being attacked with conventional weapons?

The one where we guaranteed their sovereignty for giving up their nuclear capabilities.

Nope.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ukraine._Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances


Yep
The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.

Ok... now what? It says nothing about what will be done about it. Only thing it says is in the event of Ukraine being nuked is that we will run to the UN. That's it... and nothing about conventional attack.

And as above it's not a treaty. Ukraine was stupid to go along with this open ended crap back in the 90s.
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2012
  • USA USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2012
  • USA USA
  • Posts: 10390
  • Feedback: 100% (2)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 2:45:17 PM EST
.
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History

Ok... now what? It says nothing about what will be done about it. Only thing it says is in the event of Ukraine being nuked is that we will run to the UN. That's it... and nothing about conventional attack.

And as above it's not a treaty. Ukraine was stupid to go along with this open ended crap back in the 90s.
View Quote

"in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act"

Read
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
Mark Twain
OFFICIAL arfcom nickname: The Butcher
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Aug 2012
  • USA NY, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Aug 2012
  • USA NY, USA
  • Posts: 17047
  • Feedback: 100% (25)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 2:49:26 PM EST
Yeah, people keep going on and on about that agreement. Read it. Nothing was broken by us.
If they wanted Nato's military deterrence, they should've joined when they had the chance. They opted to play both sides of the fence, and its come to bite them in the ass. Tough shit. That's the way it works.

Originally Posted By Jdude:
GD is where you go to see some of the most brilliant subject matter experts in the country argue with some of the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet.
Yor
Basic
  • Member
  • Jun 2013
  • USA OK, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Jun 2013
  • USA OK, USA
  • Posts: 59
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 2:50:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/28/2014 2:51:49 PM EST by Yor]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By beardog30:

They will still lose but they might be able to make it so expensive for Russia that Russia ultimately backs down.
View Quote


Based on what?

Georgia? Just because It took them a week instead of 3 days to accomplish their goals in Georgia?

No, I don't think Russia's might was on display in Georgia.. everyone knows their logistical issues.... But to say they haven't learned anything would be pretty arrogant on our part.


It took us a month to finish up on Grenada.

The Ukraine would last a month...maybe. They would fold like a cheap tent. Go down quicker than a prom date on a 6 pack of wine coolers.

They watched someone invade part of their territory and their best defense was not firing back due to fear of reprisal. What do you think is going to happen if a full invasion takes place? Mass desertions. They haven't formed a strong since of identity or leadership since the revolution happened.










Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Mar 2006
  • USA NV, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Mar 2006
  • USA NV, USA
  • Posts: 3361
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 2:52:42 PM EST
There is not a whole lot they can do. They do not have the military might in terms of quantity or quality to counter the Russians, and relying on allies is going to be difficult. The last thing anyone wants is a shooting war, and between the two monolithic issues of nuclear powers getting involved in a shooting war, and how much Europe needs Russian gas there is not much that can be done.
Duc, sequere, aut de via decede
Avatar
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Aug 2007
  • GBR GBR
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Aug 2007
  • GBR GBR
  • Posts: 21846
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Online
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 2:53:52 PM EST
Join the British Sarcasm Society (Yeah….. like we need more members…..)

Proud Member - Team Ranstad

131050
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2012
  • USA NC, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Feb 2012
  • USA NC, USA
  • Posts: 1244
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 2:54:55 PM EST

Not that it has anything to do with the OPs question, but that territory has a lot of history.

WWII and the German invasion

Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2012
  • USA USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2012
  • USA USA
  • Posts: 10391
  • Feedback: 100% (2)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 2:56:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/28/2014 2:59:18 PM EST by beardog30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Yor:


Based on what?

Georgia? Just because It took them a week instead of 3 days to accomplish their goals in Georgia?

No, I don't think Russia's might was on display in Georgia.. everyone knows their logistical issues.... But to say they haven't learned anything would be pretty arrogant on our part.


It took us a month to finish up on Grenada.

The Ukraine would last a month...maybe. They would fold like a cheap tent. Go down quicker than a prom date on a 6 pack of wine coolers.

They watched someone invade part of their territory and their best defense was not firing back due to fear of reprisal. What do you think is going to happen if a full invasion takes place? Mass desertions. They haven't formed a strong since of identity or leadership since the revolution happened.



View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Yor:
Originally Posted By beardog30:

They will still lose but they might be able to make it so expensive for Russia that Russia ultimately backs down.


Based on what?

Georgia? Just because It took them a week instead of 3 days to accomplish their goals in Georgia?

No, I don't think Russia's might was on display in Georgia.. everyone knows their logistical issues.... But to say they haven't learned anything would be pretty arrogant on our part.


It took us a month to finish up on Grenada.

The Ukraine would last a month...maybe. They would fold like a cheap tent. Go down quicker than a prom date on a 6 pack of wine coolers.

They watched someone invade part of their territory and their best defense was not firing back due to fear of reprisal. What do you think is going to happen if a full invasion takes place? Mass desertions. They haven't formed a strong since of identity or leadership since the revolution happened.




Chechnya one and two?
Forget about those?

The Ukraine has a military. Is it a good military? No. Does it have units on par with Russian units? Yes. Russia had massive issues logistically in every conflict they have been in since the fall of the Soviet Union. That was against goat herders. Now they have to support and sustain an action against a country that has military assets. I don't know how you come to your conclusion.
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
Mark Twain
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Sep 2006
  • USA FL, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Sep 2006
  • USA FL, USA
  • Posts: 9159
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 2:57:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/28/2014 2:58:41 PM EST by klinc]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By beardog30:
.

"in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act"

Read
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By beardog30:
.

Ok... now what? It says nothing about what will be done about it. Only thing it says is in the event of Ukraine being nuked is that we will run to the UN. That's it... and nothing about conventional attack.

And as above it's not a treaty. Ukraine was stupid to go along with this open ended crap back in the 90s.

"in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act"

Read
Yeah, Just a bunch of rules on how to work together and respect each other. I still see nothing saying the US will defend immediately if the Ukraine is attacked. Granted I haven't read it word for word. It's quite long...
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2007
  • USA MD, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2007
  • USA MD, USA
  • Posts: 28039
  • Feedback: 100% (1)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:00:48 PM EST
tank traps, deployments and troop movements, among other things we probably arent privy to. good luck to them
Coyote with 40 people crammed into a minivan gets into a chase with DPS, Paco over estimates his driving abilities and *whmmo!* the Astrovan of Immigration becomes a Pinata of Pain, hurling broken bodies like so many tasty pieces of cheap candy...
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Sep 2006
  • USA TX, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Sep 2006
  • USA TX, USA
  • Posts: 6380
  • Feedback: 100% (21)
  • Status: Online
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:02:19 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By beardog30:
.

"in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act"

Read
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By beardog30:
.

Ok... now what? It says nothing about what will be done about it. Only thing it says is in the event of Ukraine being nuked is that we will run to the UN. That's it... and nothing about conventional attack.

And as above it's not a treaty. Ukraine was stupid to go along with this open ended crap back in the 90s.

"in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act"

Read



That's a pretty long document and I'm not seeing what you think is in there. Can you quote the relevant passage?
"Not For Hire"
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Oct 2007
  • USA OH, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Oct 2007
  • USA OH, USA
  • Posts: 11619
  • Feedback: 100% (52)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:02:37 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BillSouthCarolina:
I´m guessing they are preparing to draw any confrontation out... the Russians have poor logistical planning and Ukrianians will be supplied by the UK/Poland/Japan/US with Manpads and training if only the military confrontation isn't over in five days.
View Quote






Tennessee Squire

Guns have 2 enemies, rust and politicians

Proud member of "Team Ranstad"...The Fantastic Bastards
"Not For Hire"
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Oct 2007
  • USA OH, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Oct 2007
  • USA OH, USA
  • Posts: 11620
  • Feedback: 100% (52)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:02:57 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By joshdb50:
They're hoping for change.
View Quote


They have that already.

Tennessee Squire

Guns have 2 enemies, rust and politicians

Proud member of "Team Ranstad"...The Fantastic Bastards
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Mar 2002
  • CAN CAN
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Mar 2002
  • CAN CAN
  • Posts: 1535
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:03:43 PM EST
Ukraine cannot defend itself against Russia. Its military is too small, too decrepit and too poorly trained, and the country lacks any significant terrain features short of the Dnieper around which to build a defence. They had hoped that after tossing out the Russian puppet president, and aligning themselves with the EU, that the nations of Europe and the United States would rush to their defence. That obviously hasn't happened, and the majority of westerners are currently quite happy to watch the country get curbstomped by Russia.

Ukraine's best move right now is to do everything possible to turn themselves into a media sweetheart that the average joe in the west will sympathize with them, and actually give a fuck about their plight. Right now they should - no joke - be trying to get help from western celebrities, as that's basically all the average western schmuck cares about.

You can bet that if fucking Bieber or fucking Kanye or some other stupid celebrity jackass started talking about Ukraine on his twitter that support for military intervention would jump 5-10%.
"You and I have have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last, best hope of man on earth, or we will sentence them to take the first step into a thousand years of darkness." -- Ronald Reagan
Yor
Basic
  • Member
  • Jun 2013
  • USA OK, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Jun 2013
  • USA OK, USA
  • Posts: 61
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:04:32 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By beardog30:

Chechnya one and two?
Forget about those?

The Ukraine has a military. Is it a good military? No. Does it have units on par with Russian units? Yes. Russia had massive issues logistically in every conflict they have been in since the fall of the Soviet Union. That was against goat herders. Now they have to support and sustain an action against a country that has military assets. I don't know how you come to your conclusion.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By beardog30:
Originally Posted By Yor:
Originally Posted By beardog30:

They will still lose but they might be able to make it so expensive for Russia that Russia ultimately backs down.


Based on what?

Georgia? Just because It took them a week instead of 3 days to accomplish their goals in Georgia?

No, I don't think Russia's might was on display in Georgia.. everyone knows their logistical issues.... But to say they haven't learned anything would be pretty arrogant on our part.


It took us a month to finish up on Grenada.

The Ukraine would last a month...maybe. They would fold like a cheap tent. Go down quicker than a prom date on a 6 pack of wine coolers.

They watched someone invade part of their territory and their best defense was not firing back due to fear of reprisal. What do you think is going to happen if a full invasion takes place? Mass desertions. They haven't formed a strong since of identity or leadership since the revolution happened.




Chechnya one and two?
Forget about those?

The Ukraine has a military. Is it a good military? No. Does it have units on par with Russian units? Yes. Russia had massive issues logistically in every conflict they have been in since the fall of the Soviet Union. That was against goat herders. Now they have to support and sustain an action against a country that has military assets. I don't know how you come to your conclusion.


Lets see.

- Fighting in a small, poor country primarily filled with goat hearders that praise the snackbar and getting stuck for many years.

Are we still talking about Chechnya?

Its not like Russia lost that one.

There is no way the Ukraine will have any capacity to fight the Russians. It might as well be Mexico vs the USA.
Fan of the Krinkov
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2003
  • USA FL, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2003
  • USA FL, USA
  • Posts: 22566
  • Feedback: 100% (2)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:09:42 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BlckM70:
Why do people keep calling it "The Ukraine"? It's not "The Germany" or "The France".
View Quote

The Bromx
The Eastern diamond rattlesnake was the symbol of the American Revolution. The Gadsden flag is a historic American flag with it's yellow field depicting a rattlesnake coiled and ready to strike and with the words underneath "DON'T TREAD ON ME".
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2012
  • USA USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2012
  • USA USA
  • Posts: 10392
  • Feedback: 100% (2)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:09:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/28/2014 3:12:53 PM EST by beardog30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Yor:


Lets see.

- Fighting in a small, poor country primarily filled with goat hearders that praise the snackbar and getting stuck for many years.

Are we still talking about Chechnya?

Its not like Russia lost that one.

There is no way the Ukraine will have any capacity to fight the Russians. It might as well be Mexico vs the USA.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Yor:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
Originally Posted By Yor:
Originally Posted By beardog30:

They will still lose but they might be able to make it so expensive for Russia that Russia ultimately backs down.


Based on what?

Georgia? Just because It took them a week instead of 3 days to accomplish their goals in Georgia?

No, I don't think Russia's might was on display in Georgia.. everyone knows their logistical issues.... But to say they haven't learned anything would be pretty arrogant on our part.


It took us a month to finish up on Grenada.

The Ukraine would last a month...maybe. They would fold like a cheap tent. Go down quicker than a prom date on a 6 pack of wine coolers.

They watched someone invade part of their territory and their best defense was not firing back due to fear of reprisal. What do you think is going to happen if a full invasion takes place? Mass desertions. They haven't formed a strong since of identity or leadership since the revolution happened.




Chechnya one and two?
Forget about those?

The Ukraine has a military. Is it a good military? No. Does it have units on par with Russian units? Yes. Russia had massive issues logistically in every conflict they have been in since the fall of the Soviet Union. That was against goat herders. Now they have to support and sustain an action against a country that has military assets. I don't know how you come to your conclusion.


Lets see.

- Fighting in a small, poor country primarily filled with goat hearders that praise the snackbar and getting stuck for many years.

Are we still talking about Chechnya?

Its not like Russia lost that one.

There is no way the Ukraine will have any capacity to fight the Russians. It might as well be Mexico vs the USA.

Name a fight in Afghanistan where an entire US division got stopped butt cold?

That happened to the Russians in Chechnya.

They also had ROE's that are far more liberal than ours. They only won Chechnya by flattening it, more or less genocide by air and arty.

You base your assertion "There is no way the Ukraine will have any capacity to fight the Russians" on no empirical or historical data.
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
Mark Twain
My Smile Is A Rifle
Avatar
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Jan 2009
  • USA USA
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Jan 2009
  • USA USA
Military
  • Posts: 5398
  • Feedback: 100% (21)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:10:35 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RECONSIX:






View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RECONSIX:
Originally Posted By BillSouthCarolina:
I´m guessing they are preparing to draw any confrontation out... the Russians have poor logistical planning and Ukrianians will be supplied by the UK/Poland/Japan/US with Manpads and training if only the military confrontation isn't over in five days.








Ukraine has sought small arms and ammunition, but that has been refused. The Pentagon is sending food.


"The rations, the Meals Ready to Eat, they are on the way," Rear Adm. John Kirby, a Pentagon spokesman, said. "We expect them to arrive in Ukraine probably by the weekend is the best estimate."


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/28/ukraine-east-russia-invasion/7015857/
member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Aug 2009
  • USA VA, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Aug 2009
  • USA VA, USA
  • Posts: 10523
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:11:25 PM EST
Withdraw strategically, which is about all they can do unless they get backed by someone with a formidable army.
Trouble Shooter
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Oct 2005
  • USA VA, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Oct 2005
  • USA VA, USA
  • Posts: 29063
  • Feedback: 100% (6)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:14:32 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BlckM70:
Why do people keep calling it "The Ukraine"? It's not "The Germany" or "The France".
View Quote

The Balkans, The Soviet Union, The Eastern Bloc
Member
Avatar
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Jul 2011
  • SOM SOM
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Jul 2011
  • SOM SOM
  • Posts: 5797
  • Feedback: 100% (7)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:18:03 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By beardog30:

The one where we guaranteed their sovereignty for giving up their nuclear capabilities.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By beardog30:
Originally Posted By klinc:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
Stalling for time. Hopping the US and EU magically grow some balls and honor their treaties. What can they do? They lost a bunch of useful military equipment in the Crimea. The Ukraine does not lend itself to defense terrain wise.

Best they could hope for in a direct military conflict with Russia is make Russia pay heavily for every piece of ground it took, let Russia's shit logistical structure slow Russia's military down, and hope someone came to their aid. Feigns at massing useless armor in attempt to draw in Russian air assets and kill them with anti-aircraft. Drawing tanks into ambushes and then using shoot and scoot tactics. Showing up in the rear and destroying supply convoys. More or less fighting a conventional delaying action combined with a guerrilla war.

They will still lose but they might be able to make it so expensive for Russia that Russia ultimately backs down.

Exactly under what treaty are we supposed to go in and fight for them while being attacked with conventional weapons?

The one where we guaranteed their sovereignty for giving up their nuclear capabilities.


Not a treaty, never ratified by the Senate.

It was an "understanding", kinda like "the check is in the mail".
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Aug 2008
  • USA MI, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Aug 2008
  • USA MI, USA
Military
  • Posts: 2231
  • Feedback: 100% (14)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:19:55 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Yor:


Lets see.

- Fighting in a small, poor country primarily filled with goat hearders that praise the snackbar and getting stuck for many years.

Are we still talking about Chechnya?

Its not like Russia lost that one.

There is no way the Ukraine will have any capacity to fight the Russians. It might as well be Mexico vs the USA.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Yor:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
Originally Posted By Yor:
Originally Posted By beardog30:

They will still lose but they might be able to make it so expensive for Russia that Russia ultimately backs down.


Based on what?

Georgia? Just because It took them a week instead of 3 days to accomplish their goals in Georgia?

No, I don't think Russia's might was on display in Georgia.. everyone knows their logistical issues.... But to say they haven't learned anything would be pretty arrogant on our part.


It took us a month to finish up on Grenada.

The Ukraine would last a month...maybe. They would fold like a cheap tent. Go down quicker than a prom date on a 6 pack of wine coolers.

They watched someone invade part of their territory and their best defense was not firing back due to fear of reprisal. What do you think is going to happen if a full invasion takes place? Mass desertions. They haven't formed a strong since of identity or leadership since the revolution happened.




Chechnya one and two?
Forget about those?

The Ukraine has a military. Is it a good military? No. Does it have units on par with Russian units? Yes. Russia had massive issues logistically in every conflict they have been in since the fall of the Soviet Union. That was against goat herders. Now they have to support and sustain an action against a country that has military assets. I don't know how you come to your conclusion.


Lets see.

- Fighting in a small, poor country primarily filled with goat hearders that praise the snackbar and getting stuck for many years.

Are we still talking about Chechnya?

Its not like Russia lost that one.

There is no way the Ukraine will have any capacity to fight the Russians. It might as well be Mexico vs the USA.


sadly, this...

Ukraine is in no shape to take on Russia. Ukraine would get steamrolled going up against RU.

A large majority of Ukraine's navy has been compromised and they have virtually given up all power in the Black Sea.

A large percentage of the military in eastern Ukraine has defected to the other side. And I wouldn't be surprised to see its current ranks to be infested with pro RU sympathizers and spies.

You saw Ukraine trying to organize a national guard because they know they're fucked.

Ukraine's best bet against Russia is a NATO backed effort.

I would rather take my chances as an insurgent "freedom fighter" than a Ukrainian conscript.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
You can make my words, I'm gonna get my grade 10.
Yor
Basic
  • Member
  • Jun 2013
  • USA OK, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Jun 2013
  • USA OK, USA
  • Posts: 62
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:21:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/28/2014 3:22:36 PM EST by Yor]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By beardog30:

Name a fight in Afghanistan where an entire US division got stopped butt cold?

That happened to the Russians in Chechnya.

They also had ROE's that are far more liberal than ours. They only won Chechnya by flattening it, more or less genocide by air and arty.

You base your assertion "There is no way the Ukraine will have any capacity to fight the Russians" on no empirical or historical data.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By beardog30:
Originally Posted By Yor:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
Originally Posted By Yor:
Originally Posted By beardog30:

They will still lose but they might be able to make it so expensive for Russia that Russia ultimately backs down.


Based on what?

Georgia? Just because It took them a week instead of 3 days to accomplish their goals in Georgia?

No, I don't think Russia's might was on display in Georgia.. everyone knows their logistical issues.... But to say they haven't learned anything would be pretty arrogant on our part.


It took us a month to finish up on Grenada.

The Ukraine would last a month...maybe. They would fold like a cheap tent. Go down quicker than a prom date on a 6 pack of wine coolers.

They watched someone invade part of their territory and their best defense was not firing back due to fear of reprisal. What do you think is going to happen if a full invasion takes place? Mass desertions. They haven't formed a strong since of identity or leadership since the revolution happened.




Chechnya one and two?
Forget about those?

The Ukraine has a military. Is it a good military? No. Does it have units on par with Russian units? Yes. Russia had massive issues logistically in every conflict they have been in since the fall of the Soviet Union. That was against goat herders. Now they have to support and sustain an action against a country that has military assets. I don't know how you come to your conclusion.


Lets see.

- Fighting in a small, poor country primarily filled with goat hearders that praise the snackbar and getting stuck for many years.

Are we still talking about Chechnya?

Its not like Russia lost that one.

There is no way the Ukraine will have any capacity to fight the Russians. It might as well be Mexico vs the USA.

Name a fight in Afghanistan where an entire US division got stopped butt cold?

That happened to the Russians in Chechnya.

They also had ROE's that are far more liberal than ours. They only won Chechnya by flattening it, more or less genocide by air and arty.

You base your assertion "There is no way the Ukraine will have any capacity to fight the Russians" on no empirical or historical data.


The USA never lost a battle in Vietnam either. Do we doubt what is going to happen to AFG once we are withdrawn? Fighting Muslims who want their virgins changes conventional wisdom on military conflict.

How many invasions have been repelled by a newly formed government founded in a country with no strong Nationalistic identity. Oh, and its full of plains and no real defensible terrain.


I don't see a whole lot of fight in the Ukraine military.
Basic
  • Member
  • Sep 2003
  • USA NH, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Sep 2003
  • USA NH, USA
  • Posts: 706
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Online
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:23:44 PM EST
What are they doing? Bending over and applying lube. Let's face it, Vlad's gonna ride them like a frontovik on a Berlin hausfrau...
Dismal Jester
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2007
  • USA MN, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2007
  • USA MN, USA
  • Posts: 3303
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:24:39 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:

The Balkans, The Soviet Union, The Eastern Bloc
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:
Originally Posted By BlckM70:
Why do people keep calling it "The Ukraine"? It's not "The Germany" or "The France".

The Balkans, The Soviet Union, The Eastern Bloc


Errm...those are all collections of countries, hence the "the." Similarly, the US is a collection of states. Ukraine is a single country, so it shouldn't have it.
"I don't want to belong to any club that will accept people like me as members" - Groucho Marx
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2012
  • USA USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • May 2012
  • USA USA
  • Posts: 10393
  • Feedback: 100% (2)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:25:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


The USA never lost a battle in Vietnam either. Do we doubt what is going to happen to AFG once we are withdrawn? Fighting Muslims who want their virgins changes conventional wisdom on military conflict.

How many invasions have been repelled by a newly formed government founded in a country with no strong Nationalistic identity. Oh, and its full of plains and no real defensible terrain.


I don't see a whole lot of fight in the Ukraine military.
View Quote

Reading is fundamental, re-read my original post.

You base "I don't see a whole lot of fight in the Ukraine military" on what?
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
Mark Twain
Yor
Basic
  • Member
  • Jun 2013
  • USA OK, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Jun 2013
  • USA OK, USA
  • Posts: 63
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:26:09 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By grognard1:
What are they doing? Bending over and applying lube. Let's face it, Vlad's gonna ride them like a frontovik on a Berlin hausfrau...
View Quote


The only thing that would stop Russia is something not found in the Ukraine. The Ukraine military won't do it. It will be NATO or the USA.

Which means they are boned.
Yor
Basic
  • Member
  • Jun 2013
  • USA OK, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Jun 2013
  • USA OK, USA
  • Posts: 64
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:27:23 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By beardog30:

Reading is fundamental, re-read my original post.

You base "I don't see a whole lot of fight in the Ukraine military" on what?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By beardog30:


The USA never lost a battle in Vietnam either. Do we doubt what is going to happen to AFG once we are withdrawn? Fighting Muslims who want their virgins changes conventional wisdom on military conflict.

How many invasions have been repelled by a newly formed government founded in a country with no strong Nationalistic identity. Oh, and its full of plains and no real defensible terrain.


I don't see a whole lot of fight in the Ukraine military.

Reading is fundamental, re-read my original post.

You base "I don't see a whole lot of fight in the Ukraine military" on what?


On the fact they let 30k people in their territory and disarm/arrest their military.


Member
Avatar
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Jul 2011
  • SOM SOM
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Jul 2011
  • SOM SOM
  • Posts: 5798
  • Feedback: 100% (7)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:31:47 PM EST
The coup leaders had no plan to secure the country, they only wanted to replace one thief with another group of thieves.

Had they truly wanted a peaceful transition and solid chance for a representative government through elections, they would have made a deal with the EU to provide a strong military presence for the health and safety of the nation until a legal government could be elected. IOW, they would have asked to be occupied by a friendly military force rather than hope (there's that word again) Russia would go along with their plans, some of which were contrary to Russia's national interests.

Instead some street thugs took over a country and do not know what to do with it now. They are fooked.
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Aug 2010
  • USA TX, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Aug 2010
  • USA TX, USA
  • Posts: 3893
  • Feedback: 0% (0)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:39:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AbleArcher:
Originally Posted By RECONSIX:
Originally Posted By BillSouthCarolina:
I´m guessing they are preparing to draw any confrontation out... the Russians have poor logistical planning and Ukrianians will be supplied by the UK/Poland/Japan/US with Manpads and training if only the military confrontation isn't over in five days.








Ukraine has sought small arms and ammunition, but that has been refused. The Pentagon is sending food.


"The rations, the Meals Ready to Eat, they are on the way," Rear Adm. John Kirby, a Pentagon spokesman, said. "We expect them to arrive in Ukraine probably by the weekend is the best estimate."


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/28/ukraine-east-russia-invasion/7015857/


We can give billions to Pakistan, but can't give M4's and ammo (and explosives, etc) to Ukraine when they need it most. Bizarro world.
Member
Avatar
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Jul 2011
  • SOM SOM
Gold
  • Team Member
  • Jul 2011
  • SOM SOM
  • Posts: 5799
  • Feedback: 100% (7)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:51:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sweptvolume:

We can give billions to Pakistan, but can't give M4's and ammo (and explosives, etc) to Ukraine when they need it most. Bizarro world.
View Quote


Not only that, but Kerry and 0bama oversaw (witnessed is probably a better word) the destruction of small arms and ammunition in Ukraine on one of their fact finding junkets when they were both senators. Ironic, no?
Member
Avatar
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Nov 2005
  • USA MI, USA
Bronze
  • Team Member
  • Nov 2005
  • USA MI, USA
Military
  • Posts: 48376
  • Feedback: 100% (4)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:54:52 PM EST
Ukraine seems committed to letting Russia do whatever it wants. They haven't resisted one bit.
Basic
  • Member
  • Apr 2005
  • USA MO, USA
Basic
  • Member
  • Apr 2005
  • USA MO, USA
  • Posts: 3517
  • Feedback: 100% (4)
  • Status: Offline
  • Link To Post: Click
Posted: 3/28/2014 3:58:02 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AbleArcher:
Originally Posted By RECONSIX:
Originally Posted By BillSouthCarolina:
I´m guessing they are preparing to draw any confrontation out... the Russians have poor logistical planning and Ukrianians will be supplied by the UK/Poland/Japan/US with Manpads and training if only the military confrontation isn't over in five days.








Ukraine has sought small arms and ammunition, but that has been refused. The Pentagon is sending food.


"The rations, the Meals Ready to Eat, they are on the way," Rear Adm. John Kirby, a Pentagon spokesman, said. "We expect them to arrive in Ukraine probably by the weekend is the best estimate."


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/28/ukraine-east-russia-invasion/7015857/


This behaviour is to be expected from Obama, he does not want to offend Vlad. Send something meaningful, not troops, but equipment and supplies. Help them to at least go down swinging.
Arrow Left Previous
Page / 2
Top