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Link Posted: 4/18/2014 10:06:12 PM EDT
[#1]
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Do you really believe that?  
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Really? Strange because I get the feeling GD doesn't look at the chicom's and say the same thing. What are the sanctions against Russia for? Oh derp, thats right economic sanctions.  There are plenty of Nations that we would prefer to see broke and weak. Like Iran.

The rising tide is great for allies, provided they don't get too powerful.


If China and Russia weren't bent on subjugation of their neighbors we wouldn't be their adversaries.




Do you really believe that?  


I believe it. It was amazing how well we got along with Russia from the end of the Cold War until recently. Relations between the two countries were quite warm. It is no coincidence that things began to sour right around the time Russia moved against Georgia. We have historically gotten along well with Russia during times in which they aren't invading their neighbors or threatening to invade their neighbors. Funny how that works.

I firmly believe the US could get along quite well with both China and Russia provided each stops claiming sovereign territory as their own. While we will remain in direct competition to these countries economically,  the relationship doesn't have to be an adversarial one. We also directly compete against European countries economically but have a close working relationship with Europe militarily. We also face stiff economic competition with Japan and have for many years. Yet we remain very close allies. It can be done.


Link Posted: 4/18/2014 10:49:04 PM EDT
[#2]
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We don't have beef with zee Germans or the Japanese anymore.
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Really? Strange because I get the feeling GD doesn't look at the chicom's and say the same thing. What are the sanctions against Russia for? Oh derp, thats right economic sanctions.  There are plenty of Nations that we would prefer to see broke and weak. Like Iran.

The rising tide is great for allies, provided they don't get too powerful.


If China and Russia weren't bent on subjugation of their neighbors we wouldn't be their adversaries.




Do you really believe that?  




We don't have beef with zee Germans or the Japanese anymore.



I hear we even get along with Britain now, too!  
Link Posted: 4/18/2014 10:52:30 PM EDT
[#3]
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I believe it. It was amazing how well we got along with Russia from the end of the Cold War until recently. Relations between the two countries were quite warm. It is no coincidence that things began to sour right around the time Russia moved against Georgia. We have historically gotten along well with Russia during times in which they aren't invading their neighbors or threatening to invade their neighbors. Funny how that works.

I firmly believe the US could get along quite well with both China and Russia provided each stops claiming sovereign territory as their own. While we will remain in direct competition to these countries economically,  the relationship doesn't have to be an adversarial one. We also directly compete against European countries economically but have a close working relationship with Europe militarily. We also face stiff economic competition with Japan and have for many years. Yet we remain very close allies. It can be done.


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Really? Strange because I get the feeling GD doesn't look at the chicom's and say the same thing. What are the sanctions against Russia for? Oh derp, thats right economic sanctions.  There are plenty of Nations that we would prefer to see broke and weak. Like Iran.

The rising tide is great for allies, provided they don't get too powerful.


If China and Russia weren't bent on subjugation of their neighbors we wouldn't be their adversaries.




Do you really believe that?  


I believe it. It was amazing how well we got along with Russia from the end of the Cold War until recently. Relations between the two countries were quite warm. It is no coincidence that things began to sour right around the time Russia moved against Georgia. We have historically gotten along well with Russia during times in which they aren't invading their neighbors or threatening to invade their neighbors. Funny how that works.

I firmly believe the US could get along quite well with both China and Russia provided each stops claiming sovereign territory as their own. While we will remain in direct competition to these countries economically,  the relationship doesn't have to be an adversarial one. We also directly compete against European countries economically but have a close working relationship with Europe militarily. We also face stiff economic competition with Japan and have for many years. Yet we remain very close allies. It can be done.




It was prior to Georgia, I think.  More like Chechnya part 1.  Since the ROPers hadn't attacked us yet, we were more inclined to consider them freedom fighters.  Also, the Chechens weren't as radicalized during the first war as they later became when all the foreign people started to flow in.  Anyway, I think in general we weren't happy with them from that point on.
Link Posted: 4/18/2014 11:10:47 PM EDT
[#4]

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Nah man its because they've got money.



Those islands in the South China Sea? Don't worry about those islands, man.



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Really? Strange because I get the feeling GD doesn't look at the chicom's and say the same thing. What are the sanctions against Russia for? Oh derp, thats right economic sanctions.  There are plenty of Nations that we would prefer to see broke and weak. Like Iran.



The rising tide is great for allies, provided they don't get too powerful.





If China and Russia weren't bent on subjugation of their neighbors we wouldn't be their adversaries.


That point seems lost on many people.


Nah man its because they've got money.



Those islands in the South China Sea? Don't worry about those islands, man.





The Chinese plan also includes a knockout punch to Japan, sinking the U.S. Pacific Fleet, and knocking out our nuke sites. All their military tech efforts are focused on that.



The Russians are just eastern European bullies. The Chinese are working on Pearl Harbor II and putting their soldiers in my backyard.



 
Link Posted: 4/18/2014 11:13:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Yakunivich saying it was a plot of the US to start invasion of Eastern Ukraine by Ukrainian army...


Make way for Glorious People's News!

Link Posted: 4/18/2014 11:22:40 PM EDT
[#6]
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The Chinese plan also includes a knockout punch to Japan, sinking the U.S. Pacific Fleet, and knocking out our nuke sites. All their military tech efforts are focused on that.

The Russians are just eastern European bullies. The Chinese are working on Pearl Harbor II and putting their soldiers in my backyard.
 
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You're afraid of China?

Link Posted: 4/18/2014 11:26:40 PM EDT
[#7]
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You're afraid of China?

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The Chinese plan also includes a knockout punch to Japan, sinking the U.S. Pacific Fleet, and knocking out our nuke sites. All their military tech efforts are focused on that.

The Russians are just eastern European bullies. The Chinese are working on Pearl Harbor II and putting their soldiers in my backyard.
 



You're afraid of China?




The Russians have a similar plan for Eastern Europe and Western Europe...  That's what their technology and military have been angling for for years.
Link Posted: 4/18/2014 11:43:35 PM EDT
[#8]
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So you think a First World ecomony can thrive on unskilled manfacturing? How does that work?
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A developed nation can not compete with slave labor wages.

Peasants cannot compete with a highly educated and skilled workforce.


Yeh. I heard that before, every time I ride by the old Bethlehem Steel plant in Sparrows Point it makes perfect sense


So you think a First World ecomony can thrive on unskilled manfacturing? How does that work?

No entirely. Germany does, of course they manipulate the EU
Link Posted: 4/18/2014 11:48:10 PM EDT
[#9]
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The Russians have a similar plan for Eastern Europe and Western Europe...  That's what their technology and military have been angling for for years.
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The Chinese plan also includes a knockout punch to Japan, sinking the U.S. Pacific Fleet, and knocking out our nuke sites. All their military tech efforts are focused on that.

The Russians are just eastern European bullies. The Chinese are working on Pearl Harbor II and putting their soldiers in my backyard.
 



You're afraid of China?




The Russians have a similar plan for Eastern Europe and Western Europe...  That's what their technology and military have been angling for for years.


China is decades away from becoming anything significant even in SE Asia, much less a world power.  The mountain worth of internal problems that are plaguing them are too massive for them to ignore and just keep pushing and pushing and pushing. There are a ton of dragons China has to slay before they can even think about dumping paratroopers off in the Donner Pass.
Link Posted: 4/18/2014 11:50:08 PM EDT
[#10]
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I believe it. It was amazing how well we got along with Russia from the end of the Cold War until recently. Relations between the two countries were quite warm. It is no coincidence that things began to sour right around the time Russia moved against Georgia. We have historically gotten along well with Russia during times in which they aren't invading their neighbors or threatening to invade their neighbors. Funny how that works.

I firmly believe the US could get along quite well with both China and Russia provided each stops claiming sovereign territory as their own. While we will remain in direct competition to these countries economically,  the relationship doesn't have to be an adversarial one. We also directly compete against European countries economically but have a close working relationship with Europe militarily. We also face stiff economic competition with Japan and have for many years. Yet we remain very close allies. It can be done.

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Really? Strange because I get the feeling GD doesn't look at the chicom's and say the same thing. What are the sanctions against Russia for? Oh derp, thats right economic sanctions.  There are plenty of Nations that we would prefer to see broke and weak. Like Iran.

The rising tide is great for allies, provided they don't get too powerful.


If China and Russia weren't bent on subjugation of their neighbors we wouldn't be their adversaries.


Do you really believe that?  


I believe it. It was amazing how well we got along with Russia from the end of the Cold War until recently. Relations between the two countries were quite warm. It is no coincidence that things began to sour right around the time Russia moved against Georgia. We have historically gotten along well with Russia during times in which they aren't invading their neighbors or threatening to invade their neighbors. Funny how that works.

I firmly believe the US could get along quite well with both China and Russia provided each stops claiming sovereign territory as their own. While we will remain in direct competition to these countries economically,  the relationship doesn't have to be an adversarial one. We also directly compete against European countries economically but have a close working relationship with Europe militarily. We also face stiff economic competition with Japan and have for many years. Yet we remain very close allies. It can be done.




Weren't we helping Iraq when it was at war with Iran?   Both seemed quite hellbent on sugbugating each other.  

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/08/25/secret_cia_files_prove_america_helped_saddam_as_he_gassed_iran


Just picked randomly as an example.  Not saying Iran was much better, or worse, just that the level of "condemnation" tends to vary quite a bit and who we condemn also varies like the wind, and the morals too.



Coincidentally, or not, saw this one earlier today.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/04/18/obama-deliberately-emboldening-americas-enemies/






Link Posted: 4/19/2014 12:06:34 AM EDT
[#11]
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China is decades away from becoming anything significant even in SE Asia, much less a world power.  The mountain worth of internal problems that are plaguing them are too massive for them to ignore and just keep pushing and pushing and pushing. There are a ton of dragons China has to slay before they can even think about dumping paratroopers off in the Donner Pass.
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The Chinese plan also includes a knockout punch to Japan, sinking the U.S. Pacific Fleet, and knocking out our nuke sites. All their military tech efforts are focused on that.

The Russians are just eastern European bullies. The Chinese are working on Pearl Harbor II and putting their soldiers in my backyard.
 


You're afraid of China?




The Russians have a similar plan for Eastern Europe and Western Europe...  That's what their technology and military have been angling for for years.


China is decades away from becoming anything significant even in SE Asia, much less a world power.  The mountain worth of internal problems that are plaguing them are too massive for them to ignore and just keep pushing and pushing and pushing. There are a ton of dragons China has to slay before they can even think about dumping paratroopers off in the Donner Pass.



And Russia also.  They have an aging population, drug usage out of control, etc.  I do not see how their economy can sustain a cold war in the old USSR's style let alone a conventional war.    It would be economic suicide.

China may not be a military power and indeed has to fix tons of internal issues as well. However, they already started transitioning their economy to a consumer model from a manufacturing model.  They are also transitioning international transactions from US Dollar to RMB and they have a lot of them.  For what I read they are starting to ease the one child policy also.  So, there's more than one way to skin a cat.  

Add the way we are diving into a massive debt and very dependent on folks like Japan and China to buy our bonds...  well...


Link Posted: 4/19/2014 12:34:10 AM EDT
[#12]


Last November there was a week long "Cold War style standoff" with China complete with B-52 Bombers.  

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/16/us-military-dominance-pacific-decline-says-top-adm/?page=all



Then in December the USS Cowpens was blocked by a cheap Chinese transport ship.

http://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/chinese-warship-nearly-collided-with-uss-cowpens-1.257478



In January China tested their new  hypersonic glide vehicle. They are fast enough to get past missile defense systems.  

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/13/hypersonic-arms-race-china-tests-high-speed-missil/?page=all



Then there is, "China Training for 'Short Sharp War' with Japan"

http://news.usni.org/2014/02/18/navy-official-china-training-short-sharp-war-japan



Link Posted: 4/19/2014 2:32:08 AM EDT
[#13]
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China is decades away from becoming anything significant even in SE Asia, much less a world power.  The mountain worth of internal problems that are plaguing them are too massive for them to ignore and just keep pushing and pushing and pushing. There are a ton of dragons China has to slay before they can even think about dumping paratroopers off in the Donner Pass.
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China is an odd beast. Much like the Soviets were capable of nuking of the US and Western Europe into ash, but at the same time couldn't provide electric razors and TV dinners to their citizens, the Chinese are at a similar point.

The Chinese, and for that matter, Iran, can be a global threat and economic/ecological/demographic basket case, at the same time.

Link Posted: 4/19/2014 3:50:55 AM EDT
[#14]
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China is an odd beast. Much like the Soviets were capable of nuking of the US and Western Europe into ash, but at the same time couldn't provide electric razors and TV dinners to their citizens, the Chinese are at a similar point.

The Chinese, and for that matter, Iran, can be a global threat and economic/ecological/demographic basket case, at the same time.

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China is decades away from becoming anything significant even in SE Asia, much less a world power.  The mountain worth of internal problems that are plaguing them are too massive for them to ignore and just keep pushing and pushing and pushing. There are a ton of dragons China has to slay before they can even think about dumping paratroopers off in the Donner Pass.


China is an odd beast. Much like the Soviets were capable of nuking of the US and Western Europe into ash, but at the same time couldn't provide electric razors and TV dinners to their citizens, the Chinese are at a similar point.

The Chinese, and for that matter, Iran, can be a global threat and economic/ecological/demographic basket case, at the same time.



I understand the fact they can be dangerous, but their instability limits their opportunity/ability to act out.

I juat can't stand the abject fear people have for the PRC.
Link Posted: 4/19/2014 4:01:36 AM EDT
[#15]
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I understand the fact they can be dangerous, but their instability limits their opportunity/ability to act out.

I juat can't stand the abject fear people have for the PRC.
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I'm with you there. You should always be watching them and keeping them in check, but let's not act like they're about to take over the whole world as if their country doesn't have problems to address. They can be a threat, but they're not suddenly better than everyone else and could easily take over the Pacific if they wanted to. A threat we should watch? Absolutely. Something that needs to be brought up every day as if we're counting down the doomsday clock? I don't think so.

Russia is still a bigger fear than China is at this point but people have moved on from the Russian nightmares and moved on to the next mysterious nation that's growing...Fear of the unknown.
Link Posted: 4/19/2014 7:08:37 AM EDT
[#16]
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Apparently the pro-Russians denied it.  It did not make any sense for someone trying to win the hearts and minds of a population showing they are "much better off staying with Russia".  It would be a very stupid move.






True.  However, why at this point where they are trying to sell their side as much better than the "decadent west"?   It does not make any sense.   There has been any persecution to Jewish people after Stalin in Russia?   Russia supported the creation of Israel and was against zionism because apparently it went against some of the commies' politics.  However, I do not recall persecutions, registrations, etc. even during the USSR times.     Why now?

It would also be stupid for the pro-EU side to make this move trying to blame the pro-Russia side.


It's almost like that there's a "third side" trying to escalate the crisis into a civil war.  


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So USA Today is reporting that pro-Russian militants or activists within East Ukraine are demanding for a mandatory Jewish registry.

<a href="http://s67.photobucket.com/user/siasl73/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsfaa231a4.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/siasl73/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsfaa231a4.jpg</a>



Anyone can print papers and distribute them around.  The question is who would benefit from this stuff?

Did Jews have to register in Ukraine before? (forget the WW II-related period)  Why would they have to register now?



That's true. Is it a ploy? Or is it bonafide? We'll have to see how it plays out.



Apparently the pro-Russians denied it.  It did not make any sense for someone trying to win the hearts and minds of a population showing they are "much better off staying with Russia".  It would be a very stupid move.



Quoted:

We have the long history of anti-Semitism in Russia to account for who probably came up with those flyers.



True.  However, why at this point where they are trying to sell their side as much better than the "decadent west"?   It does not make any sense.   There has been any persecution to Jewish people after Stalin in Russia?   Russia supported the creation of Israel and was against zionism because apparently it went against some of the commies' politics.  However, I do not recall persecutions, registrations, etc. even during the USSR times.     Why now?

It would also be stupid for the pro-EU side to make this move trying to blame the pro-Russia side.


It's almost like that there's a "third side" trying to escalate the crisis into a civil war.  



LOL! That's rich coming from a guy who claims to know more than me about the region.
Link Posted: 4/19/2014 7:21:50 AM EDT
[#17]
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LOL! That's rich coming from a guy who claims to know more than me about the region.
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Anyone can print papers and distribute them around.  The question is who would benefit from this stuff?

Did Jews have to register in Ukraine before? (forget the WW II-related period)  Why would they have to register now?



That's true. Is it a ploy? Or is it bonafide? We'll have to see how it plays out.



Apparently the pro-Russians denied it.  It did not make any sense for someone trying to win the hearts and minds of a population showing they are "much better off staying with Russia".  It would be a very stupid move.


Quoted:

We have the long history of anti-Semitism in Russia to account for who probably came up with those flyers.



True.  However, why at this point where they are trying to sell their side as much better than the "decadent west"?   It does not make any sense.   There has been any persecution to Jewish people after Stalin in Russia?   Russia supported the creation of Israel and was against zionism because apparently it went against some of the commies' politics.  However, I do not recall persecutions, registrations, etc. even during the USSR times.     Why now?

It would also be stupid for the pro-EU side to make this move trying to blame the pro-Russia side.


It's almost like that there's a "third side" trying to escalate the crisis into a civil war.  



LOL! That's rich coming from a guy who claims to know more than me about the region.



There you go again.    

So, "Mr. Expert".  Explain it.

1) Who had anything to gain by printing and spreading those letters?

2) When was the USSR (since the 60s/70s) persecuting the Jewish and making them "register"?

I'm listening.   Amuse me.



Link Posted: 4/19/2014 7:35:09 AM EDT
[#18]
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I'm with you there. You should always be watching them and keeping them in check, but let's not act like they're about to take over the whole world as if their country doesn't have problems to address. They can be a threat, but they're not suddenly better than everyone else and could easily take over the Pacific if they wanted to. A threat we should watch? Absolutely. Something that needs to be brought up every day as if we're counting down the doomsday clock? I don't think so.

Russia is still a bigger fear than China is at this point but people have moved on from the Russian nightmares and moved on to the next mysterious nation that's growing...Fear of the unknown.
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I understand the fact they can be dangerous, but their instability limits their opportunity/ability to act out.

I juat can't stand the abject fear people have for the PRC.


I'm with you there. You should always be watching them and keeping them in check, but let's not act like they're about to take over the whole world as if their country doesn't have problems to address. They can be a threat, but they're not suddenly better than everyone else and could easily take over the Pacific if they wanted to. A threat we should watch? Absolutely. Something that needs to be brought up every day as if we're counting down the doomsday clock? I don't think so.

Russia is still a bigger fear than China is at this point but people have moved on from the Russian nightmares and moved on to the next mysterious nation that's growing...Fear of the unknown.



It seems to boil down to what George Orwell wrote about in "1984".

USSR was the "great enemy" until it crumbled.  Then came the "war on terror".  

Now someone wants to fabricate another one and the lemmings will follow.




Link Posted: 4/19/2014 7:51:20 AM EDT
[#19]
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1) Who had anything to gain by printing and spreading those letters?
As its already been stated this maybe nothing more than classic Russian anti-Semitism popping up. It may also be PSYOP..

2) When was the USSR (since the 60s/70s) persecuting the Jewish and making them "register"?
Would you consider the plight of the refusniks persecution?

I'm listening.   Amuse me.



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Link Posted: 4/19/2014 8:09:56 AM EDT
[#20]
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1) Who had anything to gain by printing and spreading those letters?
As its already been stated this maybe nothing more than classic Russian anti-Semitism popping up. It may also be PSYOP..

2) When was the USSR (since the 60s/70s) persecuting the Jewish and making them "register"?
Would you consider the plight of the refusniks persecution?

I'm listening.   Amuse me.




1) Everything indicates it's PSYOP.  But from whom?

2) Thought about that, but considering that the USSR used to make very difficult to anyone in general to emigrate...  How many of the
people who were killed trying to defect were Jews?   How many of the arrested and sent to the gulags?   This is what makes me skeptical.

I found this article today.


Leaflets Given To Donetsk Jews Made Waves Worldwide, But Not In Donetsk
by Ari Shapiro
- April 18, 2014

A development in Eastern Ukraine has set social media on fire and triggered outrage around the world.

In the city of Donetsk, someone distributed fliers ordering Jews to register with the separatists who have taken over government buildings.

Even though nobody in Ukraine believed the leaflet was real, the fliers hit a nerve.

It all started at a Donetsk synagogue after evening prayers two nights ago, when a group of masked men in camouflage showed up. Everyone says they were very polite as they distributed a stack of leaflets. The fliers said local Jews must come to occupied buildings with a passport, family history, a list of possessions and a $50 registration fee — a huge sum in these parts.

According to the leaflet, the penalty for failing to register could be deportation, loss of citizenship and confiscation of assets.

"I didn't believe a word of it. You'd have to really be a fool to write anything like this," says Yaguda Kellerman, deputy chief of the Donetsk Jewish Community Center. "You walk down the street with a beard and kippah [yarmulke], and you never experience any problems here. I was born in Donetsk."

At first, everyone here more or less ignored the flier. But then a few stories about it popped up in local media, and it caught fire online. From a distance, the story didn't seem so hard to believe. These orders have echoes of the Holocaust, and when people in the West think of Jews in Eastern Europe, pogroms and massacres are often the first things that come to mind. This leaflet plays into people's worst fears about the present-day political unrest.

Rabbi Alexander Dukhovny in Kiev leads Ukraine's progressive Jewish congregations.

"I received so many letters from the United States of America, from the U.K., from European countries, even from Australia," Dukhovny says.

He says he received 200 messages in one day. U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry made sure the flier got even more attention.




Complete article here.

http://www.npr.org/2014/04/18/304534528/leaflets-given-to-donetsk-jews-made-waves-worldwide-but-not-in-donetsk?sc=17&f=1001




Link Posted: 4/19/2014 9:03:56 AM EDT
[#21]
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It seems to boil down to what George Orwell wrote about in "1984".

USSR was the "great enemy" until it crumbled.  Then came the "war on terror".  

Now someone wants to fabricate another one and the lemmings will follow.




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I understand the fact they can be dangerous, but their instability limits their opportunity/ability to act out.

I juat can't stand the abject fear people have for the PRC.


I'm with you there. You should always be watching them and keeping them in check, but let's not act like they're about to take over the whole world as if their country doesn't have problems to address. They can be a threat, but they're not suddenly better than everyone else and could easily take over the Pacific if they wanted to. A threat we should watch? Absolutely. Something that needs to be brought up every day as if we're counting down the doomsday clock? I don't think so.

Russia is still a bigger fear than China is at this point but people have moved on from the Russian nightmares and moved on to the next mysterious nation that's growing...Fear of the unknown.



It seems to boil down to what George Orwell wrote about in "1984".

USSR was the "great enemy" until it crumbled.  Then came the "war on terror".  

Now someone wants to fabricate another one and the lemmings will follow.






Yeah, it's all a complete fabrication.  My Russians din't to nuthin!
Link Posted: 4/19/2014 9:07:49 AM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:



There you go again.    

So, "Mr. Expert".  Explain it.

1) Who had anything to gain by printing and spreading those letters?

2) When was the USSR (since the 60s/70s) persecuting the Jewish and making them "register"?

I'm listening.   Amuse me.



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That's true. Is it a ploy? Or is it bonafide? We'll have to see how it plays out.



Apparently the pro-Russians denied it.  It did not make any sense for someone trying to win the hearts and minds of a population showing they are "much better off staying with Russia".  It would be a very stupid move.


Quoted:

We have the long history of anti-Semitism in Russia to account for who probably came up with those flyers.



True.  However, why at this point where they are trying to sell their side as much better than the "decadent west"?   It does not make any sense.   There has been any persecution to Jewish people after Stalin in Russia?   Russia supported the creation of Israel and was against zionism because apparently it went against some of the commies' politics.  However, I do not recall persecutions, registrations, etc. even during the USSR times.     Why now?

It would also be stupid for the pro-EU side to make this move trying to blame the pro-Russia side.


It's almost like that there's a "third side" trying to escalate the crisis into a civil war.  



LOL! That's rich coming from a guy who claims to know more than me about the region.



There you go again.    

So, "Mr. Expert".  Explain it.

1) Who had anything to gain by printing and spreading those letters?

2) When was the USSR (since the 60s/70s) persecuting the Jewish and making them "register"?

I'm listening.   Amuse me.





Seriously?

All Soviet citizens had internal passports with their "nationality" listed.  "Jewish" was a recognized nationality.  All Jews were thus perpetually "registered" as such.
Link Posted: 4/19/2014 9:22:50 AM EDT
[#23]








http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC139050/


For Stalin, whose deeds easily matched those of Hitler and whose deceits had been evident throughout his life, the Doctors' Plot and intended show trial were meant to cleanse the Soviet Union of “foreign,” “cosmopolitan,” and “Zionist” (read Jewish) elements. In fact, it was the only one of Stalin's show trials that did not come off—only because he died just before the spectacle was to begin.
...
The show trial was meant to initiate a carefully constructed plan in which almost all of the Soviet Union's two million Jews, nearly all of whom were survivors of the Holocaust, were to be transported to the Gulag—in cattle cars.
...
Stalin had long manifested his hatred not only of Jews but, by extension, of Jewish nationalism (Zionism). Though using somewhat derivative terminology, his slander of both was expressed in the same spirit as the omnipresent anti-Semitism of the Tsarist period in which Stalin grew up. At that time the notorious Tsarist police forgery The Protocols of the Elders of Zion was widely circulated in Russia and beyond
...
But Stalin's special hatred was reserved for Jewish doctors. Although in the last decades of Tsarist rule Jews were restricted from owning land and excluded from most other professions, they had indeed entered medicine in numbers far out of proportion to their small percentage in the overall population.6 So when Stalin decided to resolve the Soviet Union's “Jewish problem,” it made perfect sense to open the campaign with a show trial against a group of (mainly Jewish) doctors who were often branded “Zionists” or agents of the “Joint” (an international Jewish charitable organisation).
...
A propaganda offensive accompanied the plans to deport—“for their own good”—the Jewish population. One million copies of a pamphlet were prepared for distribution—its title: “Why Jews Must Be Resettled from the Industrial Regions of the Country.” The deportation was purportedly “in response” to a carefully orchestrated letter prepared for Pravda and signed by many terrified Soviet Jewish leaders, imploring “The Father of all the Peoples” to deport the Jews for their own protection. It appealed to “the government of the USSR, and to Comrade Stalin personally, to save the Jewish population from possible violence in the wake of the revelations about the doctor-poisoners . . . of Jewish origin . . . We, as leading figures among loyal Soviet Jewry, totally reject American and Zionist propaganda claiming that there is anti-Semitism in the Soviet Union.”
View Quote


Link Posted: 4/19/2014 11:23:51 AM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:

Last November there was a week long "Cold War style standoff" with China complete with B-52 Bombers.  
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/16/us-military-dominance-pacific-decline-says-top-adm/?page=all

Then in December the USS Cowpens was blocked by a cheap Chinese transport ship.
http://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/chinese-warship-nearly-collided-with-uss-cowpens-1.257478

In January China tested their new  hypersonic glide vehicle. They are fast enough to get past missile defense systems.  
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/13/hypersonic-arms-race-china-tests-high-speed-missil/?page=all

Then there is, "China Training for 'Short Sharp War' with Japan"
http://news.usni.org/2014/02/18/navy-official-china-training-short-sharp-war-japan

View Quote

That is just China testing our president. He actually did well by sending the B-52's through their stupid security zone without getting clearance.

They did the same with Bush when he was new with the P-3 Orion hostage taking.
Link Posted: 4/19/2014 11:29:53 AM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:
So, "Mr. Expert".  Explain it.

1) Who had anything to gain by printing and spreading those letters?

2) When was the USSR (since the 60s/70s) persecuting the Jewish and making them "register"?

I'm listening.   Amuse me.



View Quote

You're supposed to be a smart guy. Look it up. Anti-Jewish polices lasted all through the soviet regime. Fact.
Hint*  Start with Refusenik.
Link Posted: 4/19/2014 11:37:24 AM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:


1) Everything indicates it's PSYOP.  But from whom?

2) Thought about that, but considering that the USSR used to make very difficult to anyone in general to emigrate...  How many of the
people who were killed trying to defect were Jews?   How many of the arrested and sent to the gulags?   This is what makes me skeptical.

I found this article today.




Complete article here.

http://www.npr.org/2014/04/18/304534528/leaflets-given-to-donetsk-jews-made-waves-worldwide-but-not-in-donetsk?sc=17&f=1001




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Quoted:
Quoted:

1) Who had anything to gain by printing and spreading those letters?
As its already been stated this maybe nothing more than classic Russian anti-Semitism popping up. It may also be PSYOP..

2) When was the USSR (since the 60s/70s) persecuting the Jewish and making them "register"?
Would you consider the plight of the refusniks persecution?

I'm listening.   Amuse me.




1) Everything indicates it's PSYOP.  But from whom?

2) Thought about that, but considering that the USSR used to make very difficult to anyone in general to emigrate...  How many of the
people who were killed trying to defect were Jews?   How many of the arrested and sent to the gulags?   This is what makes me skeptical.

I found this article today.


Leaflets Given To Donetsk Jews Made Waves Worldwide, But Not In Donetsk
by Ari Shapiro
- April 18, 2014

A development in Eastern Ukraine has set social media on fire and triggered outrage around the world.

In the city of Donetsk, someone distributed fliers ordering Jews to register with the separatists who have taken over government buildings.

Even though nobody in Ukraine believed the leaflet was real, the fliers hit a nerve.

It all started at a Donetsk synagogue after evening prayers two nights ago, when a group of masked men in camouflage showed up. Everyone says they were very polite as they distributed a stack of leaflets. The fliers said local Jews must come to occupied buildings with a passport, family history, a list of possessions and a $50 registration fee — a huge sum in these parts.

According to the leaflet, the penalty for failing to register could be deportation, loss of citizenship and confiscation of assets.

"I didn't believe a word of it. You'd have to really be a fool to write anything like this," says Yaguda Kellerman, deputy chief of the Donetsk Jewish Community Center. "You walk down the street with a beard and kippah [yarmulke], and you never experience any problems here. I was born in Donetsk."

At first, everyone here more or less ignored the flier. But then a few stories about it popped up in local media, and it caught fire online. From a distance, the story didn't seem so hard to believe. These orders have echoes of the Holocaust, and when people in the West think of Jews in Eastern Europe, pogroms and massacres are often the first things that come to mind. This leaflet plays into people's worst fears about the present-day political unrest.

Rabbi Alexander Dukhovny in Kiev leads Ukraine's progressive Jewish congregations.

"I received so many letters from the United States of America, from the U.K., from European countries, even from Australia," Dukhovny says.

He says he received 200 messages in one day. U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry made sure the flier got even more attention.




Complete article here.

http://www.npr.org/2014/04/18/304534528/leaflets-given-to-donetsk-jews-made-waves-worldwide-but-not-in-donetsk?sc=17&f=1001





Refuseniks were treated as traitors and were refused advancement and certain jobs. If they tried to emigrate they would lose their jobs and be ostracized. But yeah, that's not persecution!
Link Posted: 4/19/2014 12:22:48 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
http://www.berdichev.org/fotosjewsinrussianempire/image-094.gif

http://www.berdichev.org/fotosjewsinrussianempire/image-100.jpg

http://www.berdichev.org/fotosjewsinrussianempire/image-095.gif

http://www.berdichev.org/fotosjewsinrussianempire/image-101.jpg

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC139050/


For Stalin, whose deeds easily matched those of Hitler and whose deceits had been evident throughout his life, the Doctors' Plot and intended show trial were meant to cleanse the Soviet Union of “foreign,” “cosmopolitan,” and “Zionist” (read Jewish) elements. In fact, it was the only one of Stalin's show trials that did not come off—only because he died just before the spectacle was to begin.
...
The show trial was meant to initiate a carefully constructed plan in which almost all of the Soviet Union's two million Jews, nearly all of whom were survivors of the Holocaust, were to be transported to the Gulag—in cattle cars.
...
Stalin had long manifested his hatred not only of Jews but, by extension, of Jewish nationalism (Zionism). Though using somewhat derivative terminology, his slander of both was expressed in the same spirit as the omnipresent anti-Semitism of the Tsarist period in which Stalin grew up. At that time the notorious Tsarist police forgery The Protocols of the Elders of Zion was widely circulated in Russia and beyond
...
But Stalin's special hatred was reserved for Jewish doctors. Although in the last decades of Tsarist rule Jews were restricted from owning land and excluded from most other professions, they had indeed entered medicine in numbers far out of proportion to their small percentage in the overall population.6 So when Stalin decided to resolve the Soviet Union's “Jewish problem,” it made perfect sense to open the campaign with a show trial against a group of (mainly Jewish) doctors who were often branded “Zionists” or agents of the “Joint” (an international Jewish charitable organisation).
...
A propaganda offensive accompanied the plans to deport—“for their own good”—the Jewish population. One million copies of a pamphlet were prepared for distribution—its title: “Why Jews Must Be Resettled from the Industrial Regions of the Country.” The deportation was purportedly “in response” to a carefully orchestrated letter prepared for Pravda and signed by many terrified Soviet Jewish leaders, imploring “The Father of all the Peoples” to deport the Jews for their own protection. It appealed to “the government of the USSR, and to Comrade Stalin personally, to save the Jewish population from possible violence in the wake of the revelations about the doctor-poisoners . . . of Jewish origin . . . We, as leading figures among loyal Soviet Jewry, totally reject American and Zionist propaganda claiming that there is anti-Semitism in the Soviet Union.”



But see, Stalin was a Georgian, he wasn't Russian. Russians are much nicer to Jews.





Link Posted: 4/19/2014 12:33:14 PM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:


Yeah, it's all a complete fabrication.  My Russians din't to nuthin!
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I understand the fact they can be dangerous, but their instability limits their opportunity/ability to act out.

I juat can't stand the abject fear people have for the PRC.


I'm with you there. You should always be watching them and keeping them in check, but let's not act like they're about to take over the whole world as if their country doesn't have problems to address. They can be a threat, but they're not suddenly better than everyone else and could easily take over the Pacific if they wanted to. A threat we should watch? Absolutely. Something that needs to be brought up every day as if we're counting down the doomsday clock? I don't think so.

Russia is still a bigger fear than China is at this point but people have moved on from the Russian nightmares and moved on to the next mysterious nation that's growing...Fear of the unknown.



It seems to boil down to what George Orwell wrote about in "1984".

USSR was the "great enemy" until it crumbled.  Then came the "war on terror".  

Now someone wants to fabricate another one and the lemmings will follow.



Yeah, it's all a complete fabrication.  My Russians din't to nuthin!




It appear subtleness does not work with you.

So, are you are aware of George Orwell and his book 1984 and how the State needs an "enemy" even if completely fabricated in order to divert its subjects'  attention to other issues?    Interestingly the point of contention between several of us.

USSR was the enemy and it crumbled.

Terrorism, 9/11 and Al Qaeda presented the opportunity for the "replacement" enemy.

Now, since its not the interest of the turd and his administration to keep chasing his brethren he needs someone else.

Guess who is the next in line?  The Chinese do not seem willing to "cooperate" as much as Putin does.


Link Posted: 4/19/2014 12:35:21 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

...

It appear subtleness does not work with you.

So, are you are aware of George Orwell and his book 1984 and how the State needs an "enemy" even if completely fabricated in order to divert its subjects'  attention to other issues?    Interestingly the point of contention between several of us.

USSR was the enemy and it crumbled.

Terrorism, 9/11 and Al Qaeda presented the opportunity for the "replacement" enemy.

Now, since its not the interest of the turd and his administration to keep chasing his brethren he needs someone else.

Guess who is the next in line?  The Chinese do not seem willing to "cooperate" as much as Putin does.


View Quote


Oh, I am quite familiar with how propagandists attempt to divert attention to other issues.  I've been watching you do it this entire thread.
Link Posted: 4/19/2014 12:35:27 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Seriously?

All Soviet citizens had internal passports with their "nationality" listed.  "Jewish" was a recognized nationality.  All Jews were thus perpetually "registered" as such.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:



True.  However, why at this point where they are trying to sell their side as much better than the "decadent west"?   It does not make any sense.   There has been any persecution to Jewish people after Stalin in Russia?   Russia supported the creation of Israel and was against zionism because apparently it went against some of the commies' politics.  However, I do not recall persecutions, registrations, etc. even during the USSR times.     Why now?

It would also be stupid for the pro-EU side to make this move trying to blame the pro-Russia side.


It's almost like that there's a "third side" trying to escalate the crisis into a civil war.  



LOL! That's rich coming from a guy who claims to know more than me about the region.



There you go again.    

So, "Mr. Expert".  Explain it.

1) Who had anything to gain by printing and spreading those letters?

2) When was the USSR (since the 60s/70s) persecuting the Jewish and making them "register"?

I'm listening.   Amuse me.




Seriously?

All Soviet citizens had internal passports with their "nationality" listed.  "Jewish" was a recognized nationality.  All Jews were thus perpetually "registered" as such.



When? What period?

Link Posted: 4/19/2014 12:39:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
http://www.berdichev.org/fotosjewsinrussianempire/image-094.gif

http://www.berdichev.org/fotosjewsinrussianempire/image-100.jpg

http://www.berdichev.org/fotosjewsinrussianempire/image-095.gif

http://www.berdichev.org/fotosjewsinrussianempire/image-101.jpg

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC139050/


For Stalin, whose deeds easily matched those of Hitler and whose deceits had been evident throughout his life, the Doctors' Plot and intended show trial were meant to cleanse the Soviet Union of “foreign,” “cosmopolitan,” and “Zionist” (read Jewish) elements. In fact, it was the only one of Stalin's show trials that did not come off—only because he died just before the spectacle was to begin.
...
The show trial was meant to initiate a carefully constructed plan in which almost all of the Soviet Union's two million Jews, nearly all of whom were survivors of the Holocaust, were to be transported to the Gulag—in cattle cars.
...
Stalin had long manifested his hatred not only of Jews but, by extension, of Jewish nationalism (Zionism). Though using somewhat derivative terminology, his slander of both was expressed in the same spirit as the omnipresent anti-Semitism of the Tsarist period in which Stalin grew up. At that time the notorious Tsarist police forgery The Protocols of the Elders of Zion was widely circulated in Russia and beyond
...
But Stalin's special hatred was reserved for Jewish doctors. Although in the last decades of Tsarist rule Jews were restricted from owning land and excluded from most other professions, they had indeed entered medicine in numbers far out of proportion to their small percentage in the overall population.6 So when Stalin decided to resolve the Soviet Union's “Jewish problem,” it made perfect sense to open the campaign with a show trial against a group of (mainly Jewish) doctors who were often branded “Zionists” or agents of the “Joint” (an international Jewish charitable organisation).
...
A propaganda offensive accompanied the plans to deport—“for their own good”—the Jewish population. One million copies of a pamphlet were prepared for distribution—its title: “Why Jews Must Be Resettled from the Industrial Regions of the Country.” The deportation was purportedly “in response” to a carefully orchestrated letter prepared for Pravda and signed by many terrified Soviet Jewish leaders, imploring “The Father of all the Peoples” to deport the Jews for their own protection. It appealed to “the government of the USSR, and to Comrade Stalin personally, to save the Jewish population from possible violence in the wake of the revelations about the doctor-poisoners . . . of Jewish origin . . . We, as leading figures among loyal Soviet Jewry, totally reject American and Zionist propaganda claiming that there is anti-Semitism in the Soviet Union.”





Stalin?  Really?   Jewish and how many others he slaughtered?  

Remember I mentioned post the 60/70s.   After Stalin.

That sick pervert would kill his own mother.



Link Posted: 4/19/2014 12:39:24 PM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:



When? What period?

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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:



True.  However, why at this point where they are trying to sell their side as much better than the "decadent west"?   It does not make any sense.   There has been any persecution to Jewish people after Stalin in Russia?   Russia supported the creation of Israel and was against zionism because apparently it went against some of the commies' politics.  However, I do not recall persecutions, registrations, etc. even during the USSR times.     Why now?

It would also be stupid for the pro-EU side to make this move trying to blame the pro-Russia side.


It's almost like that there's a "third side" trying to escalate the crisis into a civil war.  



LOL! That's rich coming from a guy who claims to know more than me about the region.



There you go again.    

So, "Mr. Expert".  Explain it.

1) Who had anything to gain by printing and spreading those letters?

2) When was the USSR (since the 60s/70s) persecuting the Jewish and making them "register"?

I'm listening.   Amuse me.




Seriously?

All Soviet citizens had internal passports with their "nationality" listed.  "Jewish" was a recognized nationality.  All Jews were thus perpetually "registered" as such.



When? What period?



From the 1930s through the end of the Soviet Union.  All citizens were registered by nationality and also to a given place of residence.
Link Posted: 4/19/2014 12:41:02 PM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:



Stalin?  Really?   Jewish and how many others he slaughtered?  

Remember I mentioned post the 60/70s.   After Stalin.

That sick pervert would kill his own mother.



View Quote



That "sick pervert" is enjoying quite a bit of a repetitional renaissance in Russia recently, in case you haven't noticed.
Link Posted: 4/19/2014 12:42:27 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Oh, I am quite familiar with how propagandists attempt to divert attention to other issues.  I've been watching you do it this entire thread.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

...

It appear subtleness does not work with you.

So, are you are aware of George Orwell and his book 1984 and how the State needs an "enemy" even if completely fabricated in order to divert its subjects'  attention to other issues?    Interestingly the point of contention between several of us.

USSR was the enemy and it crumbled.

Terrorism, 9/11 and Al Qaeda presented the opportunity for the "replacement" enemy.

Now, since its not the interest of the turd and his administration to keep chasing his brethren he needs someone else.

Guess who is the next in line?  The Chinese do not seem willing to "cooperate" as much as Putin does.




Oh, I am quite familiar with how propagandists attempt to divert attention to other issues.  I've been watching you do it this entire thread.



And yet, you are the one ignoring any evidence against what you preach and accusing whoever presents them to be "parroting the commies' propaganda".  Kind of ironic, isn't it?  



Link Posted: 4/19/2014 12:48:11 PM EDT
[#35]
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Quoted:


From the 1930s through the end of the Soviet Union.  All citizens were registered by nationality and also to a given place of residence.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Seriously?

All Soviet citizens had internal passports with their "nationality" listed.  "Jewish" was a recognized nationality.  All Jews were thus perpetually "registered" as such.



When? What period?



From the 1930s through the end of the Soviet Union.  All citizens were registered by nationality and also to a given place of residence.



So, are you saying the "registration" ended with the end of the USSR?


Link Posted: 4/19/2014 12:51:02 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


That "sick pervert" is enjoying quite a bit of a repetitional renaissance in Russia recently, in case you haven't noticed.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Stalin?  Really?   Jewish and how many others he slaughtered?  

Remember I mentioned post the 60/70s.   After Stalin.

That sick pervert would kill his own mother.



That "sick pervert" is enjoying quite a bit of a repetitional renaissance in Russia recently, in case you haven't noticed.



I have yet to see the genocides or any allusion to them.  Let's look at Russia itself and Ukraine?  Dictatorship? Yes.  However, are there indications of the stalinist style genocides of dissidents?

Link Posted: 4/19/2014 12:51:15 PM EDT
[#37]
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Quoted:



So, are you saying the "registration" ended with the end of the USSR?


View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Seriously?

All Soviet citizens had internal passports with their "nationality" listed.  "Jewish" was a recognized nationality.  All Jews were thus perpetually "registered" as such.



When? What period?



From the 1930s through the end of the Soviet Union.  All citizens were registered by nationality and also to a given place of residence.



So, are you saying the "registration" ended with the end of the USSR?




No, I'm saying Soviet registration ended with the end of the USSR.
Link Posted: 4/19/2014 12:51:43 PM EDT
[#38]
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Quoted:



And yet, you are the one ignoring any evidence against what you preach and accusing whoever presents them to be "parroting the commies' propaganda".  Kind of ironic, isn't it?  



View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

...

It appear subtleness does not work with you.

So, are you are aware of George Orwell and his book 1984 and how the State needs an "enemy" even if completely fabricated in order to divert its subjects'  attention to other issues?    Interestingly the point of contention between several of us.

USSR was the enemy and it crumbled.

Terrorism, 9/11 and Al Qaeda presented the opportunity for the "replacement" enemy.

Now, since its not the interest of the turd and his administration to keep chasing his brethren he needs someone else.

Guess who is the next in line?  The Chinese do not seem willing to "cooperate" as much as Putin does.




Oh, I am quite familiar with how propagandists attempt to divert attention to other issues.  I've been watching you do it this entire thread.



And yet, you are the one ignoring any evidence against what you preach and accusing whoever presents them to be "parroting the commies' propaganda".  Kind of ironic, isn't it?  






What evidence have I ignored?
Link Posted: 4/19/2014 12:54:42 PM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:

Refuseniks were treated as traitors and were refused advancement and certain jobs. If they tried to emigrate they would lose their jobs and be ostracized. But yeah, that's not persecution!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

1) Who had anything to gain by printing and spreading those letters?
As its already been stated this maybe nothing more than classic Russian anti-Semitism popping up. It may also be PSYOP..

2) When was the USSR (since the 60s/70s) persecuting the Jewish and making them "register"?
Would you consider the plight of the refusniks persecution?

I'm listening.   Amuse me.




1) Everything indicates it's PSYOP.  But from whom?

2) Thought about that, but considering that the USSR used to make very difficult to anyone in general to emigrate...  How many of the
people who were killed trying to defect were Jews?   How many of the arrested and sent to the gulags?   This is what makes me skeptical.

I found this article today.


Leaflets Given To Donetsk Jews Made Waves Worldwide, But Not In Donetsk
by Ari Shapiro
- April 18, 2014

A development in Eastern Ukraine has set social media on fire and triggered outrage around the world.

In the city of Donetsk, someone distributed fliers ordering Jews to register with the separatists who have taken over government buildings.

Even though nobody in Ukraine believed the leaflet was real, the fliers hit a nerve.

It all started at a Donetsk synagogue after evening prayers two nights ago, when a group of masked men in camouflage showed up. Everyone says they were very polite as they distributed a stack of leaflets. The fliers said local Jews must come to occupied buildings with a passport, family history, a list of possessions and a $50 registration fee — a huge sum in these parts.

According to the leaflet, the penalty for failing to register could be deportation, loss of citizenship and confiscation of assets.

"I didn't believe a word of it. You'd have to really be a fool to write anything like this," says Yaguda Kellerman, deputy chief of the Donetsk Jewish Community Center. "You walk down the street with a beard and kippah [yarmulke], and you never experience any problems here. I was born in Donetsk."

At first, everyone here more or less ignored the flier. But then a few stories about it popped up in local media, and it caught fire online. From a distance, the story didn't seem so hard to believe. These orders have echoes of the Holocaust, and when people in the West think of Jews in Eastern Europe, pogroms and massacres are often the first things that come to mind. This leaflet plays into people's worst fears about the present-day political unrest.

Rabbi Alexander Dukhovny in Kiev leads Ukraine's progressive Jewish congregations.

"I received so many letters from the United States of America, from the U.K., from European countries, even from Australia," Dukhovny says.

He says he received 200 messages in one day. U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry made sure the flier got even more attention.




Complete article here.

http://www.npr.org/2014/04/18/304534528/leaflets-given-to-donetsk-jews-made-waves-worldwide-but-not-in-donetsk?sc=17&f=1001



Refuseniks were treated as traitors and were refused advancement and certain jobs. If they tried to emigrate they would lose their jobs and be ostracized. But yeah, that's not persecution!



Any indication of that in the article I posted?   Do you have any solid evidence backing contemporary persecution?


By the way, you noticed that the article is not from RT, didn't you?    

Your free press in all its glory.  


Link Posted: 4/19/2014 12:57:05 PM EDT
[#40]
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No, I'm saying Soviet registration ended with the end of the USSR.
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Seriously?

All Soviet citizens had internal passports with their "nationality" listed.  "Jewish" was a recognized nationality.  All Jews were thus perpetually "registered" as such.


When? What period?



From the 1930s through the end of the Soviet Union.  All citizens were registered by nationality and also to a given place of residence.


So, are you saying the "registration" ended with the end of the USSR?



No, I'm saying Soviet registration ended with the end of the USSR.



So, rephrasing the question.  Are Jewish still being registered or persecuted?  That article I posted has testimonies about this topic.  Do you have any against it?




Link Posted: 4/19/2014 1:00:19 PM EDT
[#41]
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So, rephrasing the question.  Are Jewish still being registered or persecuted?  That article I posted has testimonies about this topic.  Do you have any against it?




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No, I'm saying Soviet registration ended with the end of the USSR.



So, rephrasing the question.  Are Jewish still being registered or persecuted?  That article I posted has testimonies about this topic.  Do you have any against it?






What does this have to do with the illegal annexation of the Crimea and the current blatantly Russian subsidized and prompted separatist movements in Eastern Ukraine?

What was that about propagandists and diversion, again?
Link Posted: 4/19/2014 1:46:55 PM EDT
[#42]
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And yet, you are the one ignoring any evidence against what you preach and accusing whoever presents them to be "parroting the commies' propaganda".  Kind of ironic, isn't it?  



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Yes we know, you're so enlightened and the rest of us are just lemmings following and accepting US/EU international banker slavery....meanwhile, you swallow whole, divert, and or defend every Russian argument.  It is incredibly ironic and laughable. Nobody is buying your bullshit or your protests attempting to divert this debate to US domestic issues.
Link Posted: 4/19/2014 4:31:12 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



So, rephrasing the question.  Are Jewish still being registered or persecuted?  That article I posted has testimonies about this topic.  Do you have any against it?




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Quoted:
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When? What period?



From the 1930s through the end of the Soviet Union.  All citizens were registered by nationality and also to a given place of residence.


So, are you saying the "registration" ended with the end of the USSR?



No, I'm saying Soviet registration ended with the end of the USSR.



So, rephrasing the question.  Are Jewish still being registered or persecuted?  That article I posted has testimonies about this topic.  Do you have any against it?






When the USSR "ended" did all the people responsible for the bad policies vanish?
Link Posted: 4/19/2014 5:11:54 PM EDT
[#45]
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When the USSR "ended" did all the people responsible for the bad policies vanish?
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They mostly did under Stalin.
Link Posted: 4/19/2014 5:19:05 PM EDT
[#46]
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They mostly did under Stalin.
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When the USSR "ended" did all the people responsible for the bad policies vanish?

They mostly did under Stalin.

Stalin is a reformer? Really?
Link Posted: 4/19/2014 5:39:18 PM EDT
[#47]
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Stalin is a reformer? Really?
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[b]Quoted:[/

When the USSR "ended" did all the people responsible for the bad policies vanish?

They mostly did under Stalin.

Stalin is a reformer? Really?

Yeah after he made you vanish he would reform the picture of him shaking your hand into one of him pointing at the ocean.
Link Posted: 4/19/2014 6:38:12 PM EDT
[#48]
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It's almost like that there's a "third side" trying to escalate the crisis into a civil war.  
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It's almost like that there's a "third side" trying to escalate the crisis into a civil war.  
Originally Said By Napoleon Bonaparte
Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.
Any Bubba with a printer under the influence of vodka could come up with something like that to discredit the other side.

It was, and still is, my opinion that this whole conflagration was set ablaze by the industrial grade hubris of the ass klowns that are currently infesting Washington D.C.. Putin took advantage of the power vacuum in his own backyard. He saw that the US was going to a 1940 level military and took advantage of 0bama/US 's weakness. It is the natural order of things that a hungry dog will grab a juicy bone and for nationalist leaders to expand their country's borders at the expense of weaker neighbors. Many posters in this thread should stop upping their post count and read Sun Tzu's 'Art of War' instead to gain some insight.

It isn't a far jump from seeing the US arming a drug cartel in Mexico that sews its victims' face on soccer balls & green lighting their routes into the US and running a Fast&Furious style operation in Indiana to fuel street violence in Chicago to support anti-2A legislation for me to believe that the US was arming a neo-Nazi 'Maidan' militia to cause shit in Putin's backyard to attempt to draw the US voter's attention away from the 0bamaKare rollout fiasco and assist the anti-Assad Arab Spring radical Islamists. Narcissists do not like 30% approval numbers and weak leaders in charge of a super power are incredibly dangerous if/when they irrationally strike out. Guess this makes me a Putin fan-boiz to some but their opinion is what it is.

News Update:  Ukraine is cutting off the water supply to Crimea. They had video of pro-Russian demonstrators in the Donestk area being loaded handcuffed and blindfolded onto Ukrainian Hind helicopters. Any Russian male aged 16 to 60 is now barred from entering Ukraine unless going to a funeral. A full 90% of the news was about the Easter celebration.
Link Posted: 4/19/2014 6:40:59 PM EDT
[#49]
This thread flows so much better with Rossi's posts set on ignore.
Link Posted: 4/19/2014 7:12:35 PM EDT
[#50]
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Quoted:


Yes we know, you're so enlightened and the rest of us are just lemmings following and accepting US/EU international banker slavery....meanwhile, you swallow whole, divert, and or defend every Russian argument.  It is incredibly ironic and laughable. Nobody is buying your bullshit or your protests attempting to divert this debate to US domestic issues.
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Quoted:

And yet, you are the one ignoring any evidence against what you preach and accusing whoever presents them to be "parroting the commies' propaganda".  Kind of ironic, isn't it?  



Yes we know, you're so enlightened and the rest of us are just lemmings following and accepting US/EU international banker slavery....meanwhile, you swallow whole, divert, and or defend every Russian argument.  It is incredibly ironic and laughable. Nobody is buying your bullshit or your protests attempting to divert this debate to US domestic issues.



Like I said several times before, I am challenging yours (and others) propaganda that we, as US, should blindly intervene in Ukraine.    That's what this whole thing is all about, isn't it?  The problem is, you (and others) refuse to see that Ukrainians have their say on all this mess and you are only seeing, by choice, one side of the whole issue.   Furthermore, an intervention in Ukraine has global repercussions, which you are apparently ignoring.

If you have been reading my posts, I already said more than once that I do not know all answers.   However, I am open to see both sides.  


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