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Posted: 2/26/2014 5:36:50 AM EDT
[#1]
As members of the UN and the fact that they are a Democracy as well as a Christian Nation they need and deserve our support.
That being said they pray to the wrong God in this point in history. Fuck Putin. Fuck Obama |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 5:44:41 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Putin has ordered very serious troop movements, in the guise of "exercises," in two phases between now and March 3. I'll bet he moves to occupy eastern Ukraine (including the Crimea) and there's not a thing anybody can do about it. That was the point of all the recent developments that have taken place until now -- reclaiming Russia's historical expansion towards the Black Sea. Putin seems to be an excellent chess player, unlike the feckless leaders of the West. What was the wheat harvest like in Russia this year? |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 5:51:24 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do we care about what they do in Ukraine? What is our compelling national interest that's at risk there? Why should American lives be sacrificed to protect what Ukrainians should be protecting? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Russia puts troops on alert, while Obama talks about having the smallest military since WWII. Why do we care about what they do in Ukraine? What is our compelling national interest that's at risk there? Why should American lives be sacrificed to protect what Ukrainians should be protecting? I like the Ukranians, I don't like the Russians, and I hope the Ukranians win, but I really don't think it's worth nukes. Read too many history books where stupid shit gets out of hand and everybody involved knows it's stupid and then millions end up dead. I don't think Russia would be all up in arms if we invaded Mexico. He might bitch at the UN to score points but I don't think T-72s would show up in Mexico city unless the Mexicans paid hard currancy for them. ETA: Of course, I've got no problem with us suppling the Ukranians with weapons if required. |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 5:52:33 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do we care about what they do in Ukraine? What is our compelling national interest that's at risk there? Why should American lives be sacrificed to protect what Ukrainians should be protecting? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Russia puts troops on alert, while Obama talks about having the smallest military since WWII. Why do we care about what they do in Ukraine? What is our compelling national interest that's at risk there? Why should American lives be sacrificed to protect what Ukrainians should be protecting? How would we react if another country were trying to move Canada or Mexico into its sphere of influence? The Monroe Doctrine, the Cuban Missile Crisis, the invasion of Grenada, and our reaction to the Zimmerman Telegram are instructive. |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 5:54:55 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How would we react if another country were trying to move Canada or Mexico into its sphere of influence? The Monroe Doctrine, the Cuban Missile Crisis, the invasion of Grenada, and our reaction to the Zimmerman Telegram are instructive. That would assume we're the ones moving it, or it was "ours" in the first place. |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 6:03:51 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think they'll have a special interest in Crimea, due to Sebastapol, until their other port is ready, but good point. A fractious Ukraine fulfills Russian needs as well, if not better, and at a fraction of the cost. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It will take longer than many think; a year or two I bet, but the end result will be eastern Ukraine and Crimea to Russia as newly formed states. That's not in Russia's interests. Their interests lie in perpetuating perpetual non-resolution. I think they'll have a special interest in Crimea, due to Sebastapol, until their other port is ready, but good point. A fractious Ukraine fulfills Russian needs as well, if not better, and at a fraction of the cost. Given the historical significance of Kiev, I have a hard time seeing Putin giving up on it with a partition. |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 6:18:52 AM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 2/26/2014 6:42:37 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryI'll take my half day now |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 5:07:32 PM EDT
[#9]
Troops on the move.....Items being lined up at rail yards...more coded traffic.
Even NBC is talking about it. Weak Obama is going to get millions killed. |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 5:11:03 PM EDT
[#10]
I bet they are regretting voluntarily giving up the 3 regiments of road mobile ICBMs they inherited out of the breakup of the USSR.
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Posted: 2/26/2014 5:14:13 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistorySad part is that would be true. |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 5:36:32 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bet they are regretting voluntarily giving up the 3 regiments of road mobile ICBMs they inherited out of the breakup of the USSR. Who says that's all they got? Remember, missing suit case's are still Russia's biggest blunder. |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 6:34:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Given the historical significance of Kiev, I have a hard time seeing Putin giving up on it with a partition. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It will take longer than many think; a year or two I bet, but the end result will be eastern Ukraine and Crimea to Russia as newly formed states. That's not in Russia's interests. Their interests lie in perpetuating perpetual non-resolution. I think they'll have a special interest in Crimea, due to Sebastapol, until their other port is ready, but good point. A fractious Ukraine fulfills Russian needs as well, if not better, and at a fraction of the cost. Given the historical significance of Kiev, I have a hard time seeing Putin giving up on it with a partition. Nah. Kiev is over 80% ethnic Ukies. The low-hanging fruit is the eastern districts and Crimea; I don't think the 20th Army is rolling west just for Kiev. |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 7:43:50 PM EDT
[#14]
Comparison between Oblasts, percentage of ethnic Russians, and geography:
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Posted: 2/26/2014 9:03:09 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nah. Kiev is over 80% ethnic Ukies. The low-hanging fruit is the eastern districts and Crimea; I don't think the 20th Army is rolling west just for Kiev. Yeah, but Kievan Rus was the first significant Russian state. It would be like the U.S. losing Philadelphia. Putin will not allow himself to be remembered as the leader who lost Kiev. |
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Posted: 2/27/2014 4:39:15 AM EDT
[#16]
Russia has said for the US to watch its own use of force. In Russia, that means we can do what you are doing. That means they are going all in very soon.
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Posted: 2/27/2014 4:46:29 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, but Kievan Rus was the first significant Russian state. It would be like the U.S. losing Philadelphia. Putin will not allow himself to be remembered as the leader who lost Kiev. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nah. Kiev is over 80% ethnic Ukies. The low-hanging fruit is the eastern districts and Crimea; I don't think the 20th Army is rolling west just for Kiev. Yeah, but Kievan Rus was the first significant Russian state. It would be like the U.S. losing Philadelphia. Putin will not allow himself to be remembered as the leader who lost Kiev. Kiev is already gone, though. They take the easy stuff now, play their destabilizing game for other parts later. If any shots are fired, it'll be COIN sorts of actions aimed at Svaboda-types in the Eastern districts or Crimea. I can't see an actual conventional attack by Russia. Georgia was a gimme for Putin, but Ukraine would be much, much messier globally. Not Putin's style to have a keep it real moment over something like this. |
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Posted: 2/27/2014 5:02:56 AM EDT
[#18]
Glad to see that GD's America First & Foremost Brigade is living up to expectations.
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Posted: 2/27/2014 5:09:57 AM EDT
[#19]
I just saw that Ukrainians in the west are speaking in Russian and those in the east Ukrainian as a show of solidarity.The threat of Russian dominance has lots of former Party of Regions supporters becoming more nationalist. There's a difference between leaning pro-Russian and wanting to be forced into being part of Russia.
There are around half a million Tatars who do NOT want to be part of Russia and Crimea is still roughly 1/5 Ukrainian. If Russia decides to come across the eastern border,I think they'll get more of a fight than the Georgians put up. An amphibious landing of Crimea might not even be challenged. |
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Posted: 2/27/2014 5:11:03 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Peace in our time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I sympathize, but it's not our problem. They want to be in the EU? Let the Europeans fight for them. Peace in our time. Ha, yep |
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Posted: 2/27/2014 5:27:51 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is what will happen: Ukraine is BROKE, Russia is the only country offering to lend them billions, Russia will be in control again very soon. I'm betting this. |
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Posted: 2/27/2014 6:26:29 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm betting this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is what will happen: Ukraine is BROKE, Russia is the only country offering to lend them billions, Russia will be in control again very soon. I'm betting this. The IMF has a bailout plan for Ukraine that, while rife with IMF bullshit, does not include being beaten into submission by a dictator. Zero has pledged 1 billion. The money to bailout Ukraine is there and the current Ukraine government is ready to accept, as they were before Yanucovych sold his people out to Putin. |
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Posted: 2/27/2014 6:34:38 AM EDT
[#23]
US does not need boots on the ground for this one.
Although I'm not opposed to supplying Poland with arms and if those arms ended up fighting Russians in the Ukraine I wouldn't feel bad. |
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Posted: 2/27/2014 6:35:21 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
US does not need boots on the ground for this one. Although I'm not opposed to supplying Poland with arms and if those arms ended up fighting Russians in the Ukraine I wouldn't feel bad. Poland wants Lwow back, I bet. |
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Posted: 2/27/2014 6:56:02 AM EDT
[#25]
O has a really long track record of not fighting for freedom. What would change in Ukraine?
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Posted: 2/28/2014 1:39:22 PM EDT
[#26]
Little did I know this thread would already be at the invasion level in just a few days.
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Posted: 2/28/2014 1:49:59 PM EDT
[#27]
Yay an official thread. My head is spinning with everything else.
This is undoubtedly an invasion. Not good at all. One of those things we'll remember in 20yrs I'm willing to bet. |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 1:50:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Joan Of Arc ?@Of_Arc_Joan · 3m
"@EuromaidanPR: #Ukrainian Ambassador to #UN tells media: 10 #Russian military aircrafts and 11 attack helicopters crossed the border. |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 1:53:02 PM EDT
[#29]
BBC:
22:46: Crimea's Supreme Council (parliament) has set up a "Berkut special-purpose detachment" for guarding public order, which "will be subordinated exclusively to the republican authorities", Crimean Deputy Prime Minister Rustam Temyrgaliyev is quoted by Unian as saying. Bekrut personnel are blamed for shooting protesters during the dying days of former President Yanukovych's regime. |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 1:54:19 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BBC: Quote HistoryQuoted:
BBC: 22:46: Crimea's Supreme Council (parliament) has set up a "Berkut special-purpose detachment" for guarding public order, which "will be subordinated exclusively to the republican authorities", Crimean Deputy Prime Minister Rustam Temyrgaliyev is quoted by Unian as saying. Bekrut personnel are blamed for shooting protesters during the dying days of former President Yanukovych's regime. They're kill squads. That 1/5 Ukrainian population in the area should be looking for shelter and defense right now. 
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Posted: 2/28/2014 1:56:10 PM EDT
[#31]
Euromaidan PR ?@EuromaidanPR 53s
BREAKING Armed militaries in camouflage are leaving #Simferopol airport now which they were patrolling during this night&day -espreso.tv |PR |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 1:59:56 PM EDT
[#32]
In Poland, they are talking about the airforce bases in Malbork ,Lask, Swidwin, & Pozan Poland having more than normal activity at this time of night.
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Posted: 2/28/2014 2:01:27 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In Poland, they are talking about the airforce bases in Malbork ,Lask, Swidwin, & Pozan Poland having more than normal activity at this time of night. Foski? |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 2:01:39 PM EDT
[#34]
CNN is reporting anywhere from "hundreds" to 2,000 troops invading. I'm willing to bet those are just official troops.
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Posted: 2/28/2014 2:03:11 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Foski? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In Poland, they are talking about the airforce bases in Malbork ,Lask, Swidwin, & Pozan Poland having more than normal activity at this time of night. Foski? A proper gang-fucking by Poland, Ukraine, and some other countries would do the whole area some good. It would bring Russia down a notch or two and give those buffer states some legs to stand on. Not only that, but it would also give those countries the belief that they don't need the US. |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 2:04:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What was the wheat harvest like in Russia this year? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Putin has ordered very serious troop movements, in the guise of "exercises," in two phases between now and March 3. I'll bet he moves to occupy eastern Ukraine (including the Crimea) and there's not a thing anybody can do about it. That was the point of all the recent developments that have taken place until now -- reclaiming Russia's historical expansion towards the Black Sea. Putin seems to be an excellent chess player, unlike the feckless leaders of the West. What was the wheat harvest like in Russia this year? Projected as poor for Russia and, Ukraine. |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 2:05:58 PM EDT
[#37]
We should sail some lcs into the black sea.
Speedboat diplomacy |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 2:07:43 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistorySad. FUCK OBAMA! |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 2:09:19 PM EDT
[#39]
We could re-initiate the missile shield in Czechoslovakia and other nations.
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Posted: 2/28/2014 2:09:28 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In Poland, they are talking about the airforce bases in Malbork ,Lask, Swidwin, & Pozan Poland having more than normal activity at this time of night. After Poland lost their Pres and most of the western elect in that crash in Russia...I'm inclined to wonder if Poland and Russia haven't reached an agreement to divide up the Ukraine. Haven't checked much on Poland lately. |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 2:09:57 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm betting this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is what will happen: Ukraine is BROKE, Russia is the only country offering to lend them billions, Russia will be in control again very soon. I'm betting this. There IS another option: Pretend this is about freedom. Who's freedom? Why, the Ukrainians,of course. Pretend it's our responsibility and that we could actually constructively affect this situation. Given these preposterous notions, agitate for actions that make direct military conflict with Russia between either the Ukraine or the U.S. much more likely. That is the way of the people who hate Obama so much that ANY action he's not doing MUST be the right way to go- for freedom, credibility, stability, strength. Make up a word, it's all the same nonsense. |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 2:11:48 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After Poland lost their Pres and most of the western elect in that crash in Russia...I'm inclined to wonder if Poland and Russia haven't reached an agreement to divide up the Ukraine. Haven't checked much on Poland lately. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In Poland, they are talking about the airforce bases in Malbork ,Lask, Swidwin, & Pozan Poland having more than normal activity at this time of night. After Poland lost their Pres and most of the western elect in that crash in Russia...I'm inclined to wonder if Poland and Russia haven't reached an agreement to divide up the Ukraine. Haven't checked much on Poland lately. lol no |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 2:11:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, this thread is being strung along by people who have no idea what they're talking about. Jesus Christ what U.S. 'military response' is on the table over this? None. Some reading on the subject would be tremendously helpful to you. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/ukraine-isnt-a-prize-and-no-one-is-winning-anything/ Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Interesting times we live in. The message 0bama is sending with the coming military budget is being heard loud and clear.  
-K Seriously are you ready to go to war against Russia? I wish the Ukraine's the best but they should realize we ain't coming to pull their chestnuts out of the fire. maybe not, but neither do you announce to the world that you plan to dismantle any real response from the US Military THE DAY AFTER there was a "negotiated" agreement in the Ukraine. This administration is being run by pre-schoolers. No, this thread is being strung along by people who have no idea what they're talking about. Jesus Christ what U.S. 'military response' is on the table over this? None. Some reading on the subject would be tremendously helpful to you. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/ukraine-isnt-a-prize-and-no-one-is-winning-anything/ Neither do you.... it is never wise to take the possibility of a military solution off the table. However, it's too late for Obama in that regard due to the invisible red line over Syria. Imagine if Kennedy took a military response off the table during the Cuban missile crisis? |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 2:18:53 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The conflict in Ukraine is bitter, violent, and complicated. U.S. meddling would likely make them much more likely to sympathize with Russia- as many in their nation already do given the vicious nature of the protestors. Ukraine isn't a prize to win- it's an economic basket case on the verge of collapse. Spare us your amateur musings on what the U.S. should be doing to win this deep crisis on the other side of the world. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How exactly is the Ukraine in our interest? Granted on a personal level I'd love see Russia get fucked royally. However, I fail to see how this is in the United States interest to interfere.; that's a European issue. The conflict in Ukraine is bitter, violent, and complicated. U.S. meddling would likely make them much more likely to sympathize with Russia- as many in their nation already do given the vicious nature of the protestors. Ukraine isn't a prize to win- it's an economic basket case on the verge of collapse. Spare us your amateur musings on what the U.S. should be doing to win this deep crisis on the other side of the world. …..Is the correct answer. Much as I'd hate to see a conflict get truly under way over there, The UK and US (and anyone else) do not want to be getting involved in this mess. The deck is still being shuffled on this one and not all players are sat at the table yet. It would be wise to wait and see what unfolds before making any noises about involvement, This could well backfire spectacularly on Russia without the involvement of any "western" influence. |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 2:19:47 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
why would obama care about ukrainians? they white and christian. Not all of them - which is why Obama needs to keep the US out of this one for now. |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 2:25:16 PM EDT
[#46]
America = the worst nosy neighbor. Every world conflict America thinks "what can i do to insert myself into this".
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Posted: 2/28/2014 2:31:21 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: America = the worst nosy neighbor. Every world conflict America thinks "what can i do to insert myself into this". Remember Syria? Remember the Iranian green party uprising? Those weren't the first times. But I do have to agree that this is not our fight. BHO still looks like a dumb fuck every time Putin gets aggressive thanks to the Syrian "red line" fiasco. |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 2:42:50 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People do invite us to solve their problems over and over and over again. Can't blame a country for developing a habit. Remember Syria? Remember the Iranian green party uprising? Those weren't the first times. But I do have to agree that this is not our fight. BHO still looks like a dumb fuck every time Putin gets aggressive thanks to the Syrian "red line" fiasco. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
America = the worst nosy neighbor. Every world conflict America thinks "what can i do to insert myself into this". Remember Syria? Remember the Iranian green party uprising? Those weren't the first times. But I do have to agree that this is not our fight. BHO still looks like a dumb fuck every time Putin gets aggressive thanks to the Syrian "red line" fiasco. In Syria, BHO actually made a huge mistake, and the GOP wouldn't let him follow through. Whether the motivation was cock-blocking the Pres. or keeping the U.S. out of a war it didn't need to be in the end result was the correct move. As far as the green party uprising, what of it? None of our politicians actually bothered to understand who and what was behind it. It wasn't anti-Islamic or anti-Nuclear- but was looking for a different level of accountability and effectiveness from hardline govt. The absolute best way to KILL the green party movement would have been for a lot horseshit, uninformed bluster from our politicians about how 'we're behind them'. As it was, the hardliners were trying to tie them to the U.S. Our interference is not welcome or effective in Iranian internal affairs. I know that a lot of this is complex and doesn't lend itself to 'millions dying' or 'credibility' slogans but we want to get it right, don't we? |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 2:44:52 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Neither do you.... it is never wise to take the possibility of a military solution off the table. However, it's too late for Obama in that regard due to the invisible red line over Syria. Imagine if Kennedy took a military response off the table during the Cuban missile crisis? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Interesting times we live in. The message 0bama is sending with the coming military budget is being heard loud and clear.
-K Seriously are you ready to go to war against Russia? I wish the Ukraine's the best but they should realize we ain't coming to pull their chestnuts out of the fire. maybe not, but neither do you announce to the world that you plan to dismantle any real response from the US Military THE DAY AFTER there was a "negotiated" agreement in the Ukraine. This administration is being run by pre-schoolers. No, this thread is being strung along by people who have no idea what they're talking about. Jesus Christ what U.S. 'military response' is on the table over this? None. Some reading on the subject would be tremendously helpful to you. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/ukraine-isnt-a-prize-and-no-one-is-winning-anything/ Neither do you.... it is never wise to take the possibility of a military solution off the table. However, it's too late for Obama in that regard due to the invisible red line over Syria. Imagine if Kennedy took a military response off the table during the Cuban missile crisis? Imagine if hawks tried a bit harder than conflating the Russians dropping some troops into a 77 percent Russian enclave with the Cuban missile crisis! 
With a little more imagination and a better grasp of the situation on the ground, you might actually make a case for intervention that isn't patently ridiculous. |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 2:47:32 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... Imagine if hawks tried a bit harder than conflating the Russians dropping some troops into a 77 percent Russian enclave with the Cuban missile crisis!
With a little more imagination and a better grasp of the situation on the ground, you might actually make a case for intervention that isn't patently ridiculous. Like there weren't surrender monkeys equally saying the US had no pressing interests in Cuba, that Cuba was communist and welcoming of the Soviets, and that what the Soviets were doing was no different than what our presence in Turkey did to them. Same old, same old. Everyone always wants to believe the myth that people will stop once they get what they want. It doesn't work that way. They always want more. |
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