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Danj
terminally stupid
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Posted: 2/3/2014 6:53:02 PM
Fancy people don't need to get to Europe quickly anymore?
substandard
I Got Nothing
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Posted: 2/3/2014 6:55:01 PM
Expensive as hell to operate and many cities had noise ordinances in place that wouldn't allow the jet to operate at full speed.
AR-10 is my arch enemy
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Top_Secret
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Posted: 2/3/2014 6:56:30 PM
I'm going to blame lawyers.

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I started to highlight all the stuff you said that was dumbass but was afraid the internet would run out of red. -Aimless
SWMP15AOP
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Posted: 2/3/2014 6:57:29 PM
Cost and noise, first response nailed it IMO.
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Posted: 2/3/2014 6:57:53 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Top_Secret:
I'm going to blame lawyers.

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SPNI

Lawyers, guns and money. In this case it was two out of three that spelled the end for the SST.
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Posted: 2/3/2014 6:58:52 PM
It was/is a money loser...
Danj
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Posted: 2/3/2014 6:59:26 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By substandard:
Expensive as hell to operate and many cities had noise ordinances in place that wouldn't allow the jet to operate at full speed.
Isn't most of the flight over the ocean? ie JFK to LHR
America-first
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:01:07 PM
It couldn't pay for itself and the crash highlighted the reduced safety factor of the aircraft.

It was a white elephant.
“The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:01:58 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By substandard:
Expensive as hell to operate and many cities had noise ordinances in place that wouldn't allow the jet to operate at full speed.


That and expensive as hell to buy a ticket. Not so great safety rating too. That last crash in 2000 was the nail in the coffin. It wasn't a very efficient jet either, more like "Hey look what I built! Want to ride?"
redoubt
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:02:25 PM
The Concordes always lost money. They were subsidized by the British and French governments. After the crash, they found their excuse to ground the planes and get out from under the albatross.

There hasn't been interest in developing a replacement, because they'll still cost more to operate than they can generate in revenue.
Life is about choices.
If you make a mistake once, it's a mistake.
You make the same mistake again, that's a choice.
substandard
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:02:47 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Danj:
Originally Posted By substandard:
Expensive as hell to operate and many cities had noise ordinances in place that wouldn't allow the jet to operate at full speed.
Isn't most of the flight over the ocean? ie JFK to LHR

They were actually limited to JFK-LHR. They couldn't fly from LHR to LAX, or routes like that due to noise. So their revenue was/is very limited.
AR-10 is my arch enemy
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juni4ling
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:03:09 PM
A lot of the money for its development came from .gov during the Cold War.
There was a ~justifiable "need" for super-sonic transport during the Cold War.

Now?

Companies are not going to go it alone. There isn't enough of a cost-benefit.
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Kharn
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:04:15 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By BubbaDog81:
Originally Posted By substandard:
Expensive as hell to operate and many cities had noise ordinances in place that wouldn't allow the jet to operate at full speed.


That and expensive as hell to buy a ticket. Not so great safety rating too. That last crash in 2000 was the nail in the coffin. It wasn't a very efficient jet either, more like "Hey look what I built! Want to ride?"

It was 100% first class, exacerbating the cost.

High speed internet and video conferencing also doomed it.

Kharn

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watchwatch
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:04:44 PM
Money, regulations, and this

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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:05:07 PM
Last I heard when I looked into flying via Concorde. A ticket was $11,000 . Also the Concorde was not allowed to land at MOST US Airports.
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:05:33 PM
It was the Chrysler Concorde of Concordes.
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Desert_AIP
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:06:18 PM
VTCs
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Killbot
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:06:23 PM
[Last Edit: 2/3/2014 7:06:41 PM by Killbot]
People generally do not mind an extra few hours of flight time IF there are more available flights and they have more destination cities.

The weakness of the Concord was fewer cities open to it from noise and/or range. Also, fewer flights per day.
Just miles from your doorstep, hundreds of men are given weapons and trained to kill. The government calls it the Army, but a more alarmist name would be... The Killbot Factory.
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:07:58 PM
Saw the Concorde fly over my school as a kid in the uk...also saw it at a local airport...a truly amazing piece of equipment that I sadly would never be in a position to experience
rc2
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:09:15 PM
9-11 played a big role in the demise of the Concorde.
WinstonSmith
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:09:20 PM
Something I just read about a few weeks back, apparently Boeing was convinced supersonic passenger aircraft were the future too at one point. The 747 was designed to sell a few passenger jets, then convert over to all cargo once the supersonic planes took over.

Bet they were glad to be "behind the curve" on that one.
America-first
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:11:04 PM
I saw he first test landing at Kennedy, it was an incredible sight.
“The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”
Balista
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:12:09 PM
[Last Edit: 2/3/2014 7:13:23 PM by Balista]
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By BubbaDog81:
Originally Posted By substandard:
Expensive as hell to operate and many cities had noise ordinances in place that wouldn't allow the jet to operate at full speed.


That and expensive as hell to buy a ticket. Not so great safety rating too. That last crash in 2000 was the nail in the coffin. It wasn't a very efficient jet either, more like "Hey look what I built! Want to ride?"


?

Where do you get your facts from?

The SST was one of the safest modern aircraft built and it had only 1 accident and that was caused by another aircraft.

After 27 years in service, the world’s only supersonic commercial aircraft has also proven to be one of the world’s safest, aviation experts say.


“The Concorde is and remains one of the safest aircraft in the air to date,” says Chris Yates, editor of Jane’s Airport Security Standards & Technology.
NUCdt04
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:21:41 PM
remember hearing them taking off every morning - so fucking awesome



also - small insides for what you're paying for....

Ryan Miller LCPL USMC - Sept 14, 2006. Barwanah, Iraq
Adam P. Kennedy, Sgt USA - April 8, 2007. Diwaniyah, Iraq
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dillehayd
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:23:42 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By substandard:
Originally Posted By Danj:
Originally Posted By substandard:
Expensive as hell to operate and many cities had noise ordinances in place that wouldn't allow the jet to operate at full speed.
Isn't most of the flight over the ocean? ie JFK to LHR

They were actually limited to JFK-LHR. They couldn't fly from LHR to LAX, or routes like that due to noise. So their revenue was/is very limited.


I'm actually surprised no one has setup an asian route for an SST. Some long flights! LAX could handle it.
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ztug
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:25:08 PM
$$$$$ plain and simple.
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:27:59 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By dillehayd:
Originally Posted By substandard:
Originally Posted By Danj:
Originally Posted By substandard:
Expensive as hell to operate and many cities had noise ordinances in place that wouldn't allow the jet to operate at full speed.
Isn't most of the flight over the ocean? ie JFK to LHR

They were actually limited to JFK-LHR. They couldn't fly from LHR to LAX, or routes like that due to noise. So their revenue was/is very limited.


I'm actually surprised no one has setup an asian route for an SST. Some long flights! LAX could handle it.


What would the range be on a jet like that, though?
Kharn
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:33:38 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By dillehayd:
Originally Posted By substandard:
Originally Posted By Danj:
Originally Posted By substandard:
Expensive as hell to operate and many cities had noise ordinances in place that wouldn't allow the jet to operate at full speed.
Isn't most of the flight over the ocean? ie JFK to LHR

They were actually limited to JFK-LHR. They couldn't fly from LHR to LAX, or routes like that due to noise. So their revenue was/is very limited.


I'm actually surprised no one has setup an asian route for an SST. Some long flights! LAX could handle it.

Malaysia and India both prohibited supersonic overflights. LA to Tokyo is 5474 miles, the Concorde maxed out at 4488 miles, so a fuel stop at Hawaii would be required, not a great selling point for a plane built on speed.

Kharn

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Skammy
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:33:42 PM
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VoodooChile
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:34:39 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By fosters:
Saw the Concorde fly over my school as a kid in the uk...also saw it at a local airport...a truly amazing piece of equipment that I sadly would never be in a position to experience



Saw it fly over my school in the middle of Oklahoma once....must have been a special one-time flight
There, I said it...Don't tell me you weren't thinking the same thing!

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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:40:56 PM
Crazy expensive, but VERY cool. Service was brilliant.

At 60,000 feet you could see the curvature of the earth and up to to black of space.

3 hours and 20 min flight was neat. Hangout in London for the day, leave at 6pm as it was dark.
Chase the sun and pass the terminator (solar line that separate day and night) and have dinner with your friends in NYC.

Top on my list so when I found out it was leaving service I just had to do it.
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:43:36 PM
1/2 * rho * V^2 * A * Cd
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:44:36 PM
I passed on a ride in one for a couple hundred bucks. Just a short hop over Canadian airspace.

They were at the Oshkosh Fly In several years. Amazing aircraft to watch do touch and goes.

Max performance takeoff from a start shook the earth, and anyone within a mile or so of the flightline.
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:48:24 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By fosters:
Saw the Concorde fly over my school as a kid in the uk...also saw it at a local airport...a truly amazing piece of equipment that I sadly would never be in a position to experience



I saw it flying over my school too, going into IAD in the late 80s
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:49:24 PM
You could fly on a slower plane, in more luxury, for cheaper? If you just want a ride at fighter jet speeds I'm sure there are companies that will take your money and do something a little more thrilling during the flight.
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:53:34 PM
Concorde could have been more successful if it had been American
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Posted: 2/3/2014 7:58:56 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Skammy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w4q9nqa4Gg



That is one butt-ugly airframe.
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Posted: 2/3/2014 8:00:02 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Skammy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w4q9nqa4Gg



That is one butt-ugly airframe.
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Posted: 2/3/2014 8:01:32 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By tcrpe:
Originally Posted By Skammy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w4q9nqa4Gg



That is one butt-ugly airframe.


You can say that again!
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Posted: 2/3/2014 8:01:44 PM
There will never be a replacement supersonic jetliner, not in our lifetimes. It was too expensive to fly. Modern airlines want maximum profit, and high fuel burn doesn't accomplish that.

From now on, you'll be seeing twin-engine, subsonic jets as the norm. There are still 4-burners, but their sales are dropping. The new 747-800 has slowed production and the Airbus 380 isn't selling nearly as much as Airbus had hoped. Bu there are new twin engine designs coming out.

The closest we came to the SST was the Boeing Sonic Cruiser. It was a transonic twinjet, using the big engines from the 777. It was to fly as high as 50,000 ft at .98 Mach. But after 9-11 and the near collapse of the airline industry, the airlines lost interest and went for more fuel efficient designs.

Sonic Cruiser:



What I would have given to fly aboard that bird. It would have had the same fuel efficiency as today's 767, but airlines wanted even more efficient jets. Hence, the Boeing 787 and the Airbus A350. I'm holding on to the hope that this design will someday be resurrected.
(Boeing re-applied the patent for the Sonic Cruiser design in 2012, so maybe there's real hope.)
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Posted: 2/3/2014 8:34:30 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Balista:
Originally Posted By BubbaDog81:
Originally Posted By substandard:
Expensive as hell to operate and many cities had noise ordinances in place that wouldn't allow the jet to operate at full speed.

That and expensive as hell to buy a ticket. Not so great safety rating too. That last crash in 2000 was the nail in the coffin. It wasn't a very efficient jet either, more like "Hey look what I built! Want to ride?"

?
Where do you get your facts from?
The SST was one of the safest modern aircraft built and it had only 1 accident and that was caused by another aircraft.
After 27 years in service, the world’s only supersonic commercial aircraft has also proven to be one of the world’s safest, aviation experts say.

“The Concorde is and remains one of the safest aircraft in the air to date,” says Chris Yates, editor of Jane’s Airport Security Standards & Technology.


Shhh, better watch out, people will think you're mean or something for using facts to prove your point.
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Posted: 2/3/2014 8:37:03 PM

I guess they would be flying if they made money.
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Posted: 2/3/2014 8:43:21 PM
[Last Edit: 2/3/2014 8:43:43 PM by Fatbert]
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Danj:
Originally Posted By substandard:
Expensive as hell to operate and many cities had noise ordinances in place that wouldn't allow the jet to operate at full speed.
Isn't most of the flight over the ocean? ie JFK to LHR

Yes, but Boeing and Airbus planes can fly elsewhere as well. Buying Concorde locks you into flying a certain number of jets on one route.
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Posted: 2/3/2014 8:43:23 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By dillehayd:
Originally Posted By substandard:
Originally Posted By Danj:
Originally Posted By substandard:
Expensive as hell to operate and many cities had noise ordinances in place that wouldn't allow the jet to operate at full speed.
Isn't most of the flight over the ocean? ie JFK to LHR

They were actually limited to JFK-LHR. They couldn't fly from LHR to LAX, or routes like that due to noise. So their revenue was/is very limited.


I'm actually surprised no one has setup an asian route for an SST. Some long flights! LAX could handle it.
The Soviets flew their Concorde between Moscow and the capital of Mongolia. They used it to deliver mail.
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Posted: 2/3/2014 8:47:44 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Lorax:
It was the Chrysler Concorde of Concordes.


It had a Hemi?
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Posted: 2/3/2014 8:55:16 PM
I never rode one but heard it was cramped, like riding in a tube.
It was a novelty.
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NUCdt04
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Posted: 2/3/2014 8:56:26 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By ApacheScout:
I never rode one but heard it was cramped, like riding in a tube.
It was a novelty.



not exactly first class

Ryan Miller LCPL USMC - Sept 14, 2006. Barwanah, Iraq
Adam P. Kennedy, Sgt USA - April 8, 2007. Diwaniyah, Iraq
Mark R. Cannon, HM3 USN - October 2, 2007. Kunar, Afghanistan

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Posted: 2/3/2014 9:05:03 PM
Worked about 5 miles east of Dulles from 82-86 directly in the landing path. Was really cool to watch is on approach. Couple of the folks I worked with flew it. As others have said. Noisy, inefficient and cramped were its demise.
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Posted: 2/3/2014 9:17:54 PM
Awesome Planes when it comes to looking awesome. Not so much for making ducats
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Posted: 2/3/2014 9:21:23 PM
A group of enthusiasts and retired Concorde mechanics got one of the British ones running on ground power, which was neat to see. Cockpit all lit up, voices on the radio, control surface checks. They were eventually going to restart her engines, but the UK government chickened out, made then stop the entire thing and drain all her hydraulic fluids due to "insurance concerns". So now all the hoses are drying out and she'll be silent forever.
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Posted: 2/3/2014 9:26:41 PM
Although I generally believe that the less said about Air France and British Airways, the better, I do feel obligated to say a few things about Air France and British Airways's blasphemous ideas. I assume you already know that Air France and British Airways's vassals are just as bad as Air France and British Airways is, if not worse, but I have something more important to tell you. He is locked into his present course of destruction. He does not have the interest or the will to change his fundamentally benighted tracts. Since he claims to know more than the rest of us, I'm sure he's aware that those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Of course, if Air France and British Airways had learned anything from history, he'd know that I wonder if he really believes the things he says. He knows they're not true, doesn't he? Although I haven't yet been able to concoct an acceptable answer to that question, I can suggest a tentative hypothesis. My hypothesis is that he has been trying for some time to convince people that he answers to no one. Don't believe his hype! Air France and British Airways has just been offering that line as a means to hammer away at the characters of all those who will not help him convince impressionable young people that he has the linguistic prowess to produce a masterwork of meritorious literature.

Air France and British Airways's effete proposed social programs arose out of an unjust system only to spread more injustice in their wake, proving that there is no end to headstrong, jackbooted nepotism. This means, in particular, that just the other day, some of Air France and British Airways's subversive, treacherous devotees forced a prospectus into my hands as I walked past. The prospectus described Air France and British Airways's blueprint for a world in which gin-swilling, carnaptious cadgers are free to sell us down the river. As I dropped the prospectus onto an overflowing wastebasket I reflected upon the way that Air France and British Airways doubtlessly wants me to choke to death. If I did, I'm sure the chortles from Air France and British Airways and his coalition of deceitful finks and incorrigible nudniks would be rich and prolonged, especially given how I fully intend to supply the missing ingredient that could stop the worldwide slide into Stalinism. That's the path that I have chosen. It's certainly not an easy path, but then again, I'm not a psychiatrist. Sometimes, though, I wish I were, so that I could better understand what makes people like Air France and British Airways want to unleash a wave of immorality and promiscuity.

Now here is something that will stun and very likely outrage many who read this: I am troubled by Air France and British Airways's constant exaggerations and half-truths. If you don't believe me then consider that one can usually be pretty sure when he's lying. Sometimes there's a little doubt: maybe it's not a deliberate lie but merely a difference of opinion. But when Air France and British Airways claims that he is a master of precognition, psychokinesis, remote viewing, and other undeveloped human capabilities, there's no room for ambiguity: he's decidedly lying. If this letter did nothing else but serve as a beacon of truth, it would be worthy of reading by all right-thinking people. However, this letter's role is much greater than just to speak out against pestilential ragabashes. Air France and British Airways's favorite activities all involve threatening the common good. Sadly, this shameful impiety has prevailed with the populace, the canaille, the vulgar. It appeals to squalid practitioners of favoritism and prevents them from seeing that Air France and British Airways is a man utterly without honor, without principles, without a shred of genuine patriotism. That's why I say that overbearing, loquacious ninnies have increasingly been bombarding me with insults. Air France and British Airways has a lot to answer for in regard to that. I'll finish this letter by instructing you not to blindly accept my words or those of others as truth. Investigate, discriminate, and question everything not proven. Only by doing so can you determine for yourself that Air France and British Airways is the spawn of Satan.
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