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squirrelslayer1
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:00:12 AM
[Last Edit: 1/30/2014 2:03:49 PM by squirrelslayer1]
Saw this posted on a liberal friends FB page.

Link
"
Yes, people kill people. But guns make a huge difference in how many people get killed.

Like any dangerous product — cars, airplanes, explosives — sensible regulation of guns clearly plays a positive role in reducing both misuse of this product and the number of deaths resulting from such misuse.

The map itself was part of a scholarly study by researchers from Boston Children's Hospital and published this March in JAMA Internal Medicine.
"


They never give up do they?
wav3form
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:03:39 AM
Voting has resulted in more pain and suffering than guns ever have or will.
cthulhu
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:10:05 AM
[Last Edit: 1/30/2014 9:10:35 AM by cthulhu]
Master of Science in Peace Studies.

I suppose that looks better on a resume than "Cock Sauce Aficionado"

Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading.
SD307
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:10:31 AM
[Last Edit: 1/30/2014 9:14:04 AM by SD307]
the dATA IS STRAIT UP WRONG 12000 GUN DEATHS IN CALI OVER 3 YEARS AND THAT'S A LOW[ PERCENTAGE?] then SD with 200 out of 600,000 is high evidently they can't do 5th grade math.also let ignore Illinois.
when I die bury me in Chicago so I can still vote (me).

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RECONSIX
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:10:54 AM

The way people talk and think lately is causing much pain and suffering.

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squirrelslayer1
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:12:37 AM
I've been debunking most of the data this morning. I am slowly ripping his link apart with real data.
iggy1337
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:13:10 AM
[Last Edit: 1/30/2014 9:15:14 AM by iggy1337]
"more dead mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, brothers, sisters and others."

But no mention of all those babies who didn't do nuffing

Oh but you did include suicide by gun while not looking at the total amount of suicide, seems fair and above board to me
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Lieh-tzu
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:14:57 AM
So how does Utah, ranked last in gun laws, end up with a homicide rate nearly as low as Britain? Eh, gun ban nuts?
HiramRanger
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:15:23 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By squirrelslayer1:
I've been debunking most of the data this morning. I am slowly ripping his link apart with real data.

Well make sure you share it with us.
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Screechjet1
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:15:25 AM

Just ignore the fact that parts of Chicago, NYC, Omaha, St. Louis, Houston, NOLA, LA, and Oakland have Caribbean levels of crime, all independently of state laws, which range in those areas from proscriptive to permissive...ummm...seems like the laws themselves have little impact.
And how can man die better, Than facing fearful odds, For the ashes of his fathers, And the temples of his Gods.
primuspilum
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:16:25 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By squirrelslayer1:
Saw this posted on a liberal friends FB page.

Link
"
Yes, people kill people. But guns make a huge difference in how many people get killed.

Like any dangerous product — cars, airplanes, explosives — sensible regulation of guns clearly plays a positive role in reducing both misuse of this product and the number of deaths resulting from such misuse.

The map itself was part of a scholarly study by researchers from Boston Children's Hospital and published this March in JAMA Internal Medicine.
"


They never give up do they?



Figures lie and liars figure. Even the Devil can quote scripture. Etc., etc.

Agenda, they haz it.
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KalihiJack
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:17:11 AM
Please make that link cold. Article is nothing more than click bait from a gay hardcore democrat.
Originally Posted By ceetee:
I guess the only exercise most arfcommers get is jumping to conclusions...
Sylvan
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:17:48 AM
normalize for suicide and race.
godzillamax
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:18:08 AM
[Last Edit: 1/30/2014 9:25:41 AM by godzillamax]
Per capita measure, often a good way to get apples to apples comparisons, also can be abused to really skew things. For example, if State A has 10 million residents and 10,000 gun related deaths annually, but 90% of them are concentrated in one city/locality with a population of 500,000 people, then that states per capita gun death rate is greatly skewed by the states overall large population compared to the concentrated [city] population where the bulk of those gun death transpire. In effect the per capita measure is diluted. Conversely, comparing state A to state B which only has 500,000 residents, and experiences 1,000 gun related deaths annually, but they are fairly evenly spread amongst four to five cities/localities, would not have as great of a dilution effect as state A. That is why that map is totally bogus, because it tries to compare gun deaths throughout the entire state of Alaska with that of Illinois, when in fact most gun deaths in Illinois occur in the city of Chicago which itself is more populous than the entire state of Alaska. So the honest measure would be to compare the per capita gun death rate of the state of Alaska with the city of Chicago, and then I think we would see that Chicago with its heavy handed 2A restrictions has a much higher per capita gun death rate than the entire state of Alaska.

Also, it doesn't take a genius to figure out states with highly restrictive 2A infringements (California, New York, Illinois, etc.) still have the highest rates of gun crime/deaths if measured by the city where 90% of those crimes occur. This is proof positive that restrictive gun laws in fact don't work.
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
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ZuIu
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:18:19 AM
You need new friends.
Jacobdw
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:19:29 AM
Direct causation could not be determined, but at the very least, such a strong correlation should make it clear that existing public policy in many states with lax gun laws comes at a high price: more dead mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, brothers, sisters and others.


sooooo.... no our data doesnt make scientific sense... but here is an emotional response over some color coding
GO HOKIES!
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:19:40 AM
It's rough on the aspiring rapper demographic too.
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Bigshot64
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:24:18 AM
That map is horse shit.


IL?
CA?
NY?

WTFO


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57Strat
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:25:22 AM
And guess who is committing the bulk of the violent crime in this country......


Link - Americas most violent cities by ranking
Top_Secret
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:25:33 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Sylvan:
normalize for suicide and race.


That uhh would be like racist or something.
I started to highlight all the stuff you said that was dumbass but was afraid the internet would run out of red. -Aimless
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:26:23 AM
Everything about that link gave me AIDS.
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:32:07 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By SD307:
the dATA IS STRAIT UP WRONG 12000 GUN DEATHS IN CALI OVER 3 YEARS AND THAT'S A LOW[ PERCENTAGE?] then SD with 200 out of 600,000 is high evidently they can't do 5th grade math.also let ignore Illinois.


IL is a safe an peaceful place, especially Chicago. You have to watch out for those evil southern states with their bazookas and all
squirrelslayer1
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:32:51 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By squirrelslayer1:
I've been debunking most of the data this morning. I am slowly ripping his link apart with real data.

Well make sure you share it with us.


A short reply I did:

This article is so vague and misleading. There is no correlation between gun laws and gun mortality rates, which can be seen by reading the confusing data. Did you know that over 1/2 of all gun related deaths are suicides? The other 1/2, 70% of those deaths are gang related. As to the very misleading map, correlating the United States gun laws (lax as it says) vs other countries...the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime submitted a report from 1998-2000 and it showed that on the top 10 countries with the highest violence rate (because of lax gun control) the US did not even make the list.

If he asks for sources, I will give him links.
USMC6177
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:33:38 AM
Lies, damn lies, and statistics
LuckyDucky
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:34:09 AM
Generalized statistics are dangerous to draw conclusions from.
15jonshoot
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:41:14 AM
Anyone who thinks maobama's gun banners are sitting in the corner crying their eyes out needs to wake up.
Media is still running every piece of slanted crap to push the agenda that they can and aren't about to give up.
Good on you open, ignore the name calling that will follow your posts and keep hammering them.
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:41:53 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Top_Secret:
Originally Posted By Sylvan:
normalize for suicide and race.


That uhh would be like racist or something.


yes,
yes it would.
of course, so would chief moose looking for white people in a white van with a white gun and a white hot hate in exclusion of any other possibility.

Dimicron
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:43:07 AM
And he got his degree from the George Mason University School of Public Policy. So who better to debunk him than George Mason himself

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2nd_amandment
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:46:40 AM
It is talking about gun deaths, not the crime rate.
Nice try.

gunham
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:47:26 AM
I don't know about the other States, but most of the persons involved in Alabama are Obama supporters.
It's common sense that Obama needs to be Impeached for the Good of the Children.
godzillamax
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:47:30 AM
[Last Edit: 1/30/2014 9:50:45 AM by godzillamax]
120 people, out of a population of 731,000, died related to firearms in Alaska. That is a per capita death rate of 16 per 100,000. Conversely Chicago has a population of 2.715 million and saw 506 people killed by guns in 2012. That is a per capita death rate of 19 per 100,000. Obviously, Chicago's heavy 2A infringements are not resulting in lower gun death rates compared to Alaska's less restrictive 2A laws. Conclusion, stricter 2A infringements result in a higher per capita gun death rate. Statistics, see how that shit works?
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:47:32 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By 57Strat:
And guess who is committing the bulk of the violent crime in this country......


Link - Americas most violent cities by ranking


IIRC, that government gun study over the summer said that if you toss out NYC, Chicago, Baltimore and DC (I think it was those four) then the US has a murder rate comparable to Western European countries.

Basically, some really shitty Democrat run cities fuck up the stats for the rest of us.
VA-gunnut
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:47:48 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By 2nd_amandment:
It is talking about gun deaths, not the crime rate.
Nice try.


That is one of the new buzzwords. Gun deaths, gun violence, etc... They have to limit the talk to guns, because the overall crime rates are used against them.
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:47:51 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By wav3form:
Voting has resulted in more pain and suffering than guns ever have or will.


This.
godzillamax
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:49:36 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Spade:
Originally Posted By 57Strat:
And guess who is committing the bulk of the violent crime in this country......


Link - Americas most violent cities by ranking


IIRC, that government gun study over the summer said that if you toss out NYC, Chicago, Baltimore and DC (I think it was those four) then the US has a murder rate comparable to Western European countries.

Basically, some really shitty Democrat run cities fuck up the stats for the rest of us.


Funny, the same can be said about our public school performance and standardized test scores.
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
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"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
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Nagewaza624
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:54:36 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By squirrelslayer1:
I've been debunking most of the data this morning. I am slowly ripping his link apart with real data.



and




A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Nick29
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:57:13 AM
Direct causation could not be determined, but at the very least, such a strong correlation should make it clear that existing public policy in many states with lax gun laws comes at a high price: more dead mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, brothers, sisters and others.


translation: "these numbers don't show causation, but guns cause people to die"

fucktards
squirrelslayer1
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:57:31 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Nagewaza624:
Originally Posted By squirrelslayer1:
I've been debunking most of the data this morning. I am slowly ripping his link apart with real data.



and






I wish he would actually reply to me. I am getting impatient!
Nick29
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:59:31 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By squirrelslayer1:
Originally Posted By Nagewaza624:
Originally Posted By squirrelslayer1:
I've been debunking most of the data this morning. I am slowly ripping his link apart with real data.



and






I wish he would actually reply to me. I am getting impatient!

don't waste your time. You're about as likely to convince that fucktard that guns are good as he is to convince you that guns are evil.
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Posted: 1/30/2014 10:03:06 AM
ARFCOM needs to pull together and build a city-sized ship and name it AMERICA 2.. Then get the fuck out of this nuthouse before it's too late.
The melting pot has transformed into a boiling pot.
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Posted: 1/30/2014 10:04:22 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Originally Posted By Top_Secret:
Originally Posted By Sylvan:
normalize for suicide and race.


That uhh would be like racist or something.


yes,
yes it would.
of course, so would chief moose looking for white people in a white van with a white gun and a white hot hate in exclusion of any other possibility.




Isn't he working for Paul Blart now?
It's a celebration, bitches!
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Posted: 1/30/2014 10:07:00 AM
They are not against guns for the safety factor, the left hates guns because they allow the feeble public to resist!
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Posted: 1/30/2014 10:09:43 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By squirrelslayer1:
Saw this posted on a liberal friends FB page.

Link
"
Yes, people kill people. But guns make a huge difference in how many people get killed.

Like any dangerous product — cars, airplanes, explosives — sensible regulation of guns clearly plays a positive role in reducing both misuse of this product and the number of deaths resulting from such misuse.

The map itself was part of a scholarly study by researchers from Boston Children's Hospital and published this March in JAMA Internal Medicine.
"

They never give up do they?

At least they were honest about one point.

Direct causation could not be determined


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governmentman
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Posted: 1/30/2014 10:15:43 AM
This map proves one thing, liberals can't do math
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Keith_J
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Posted: 1/30/2014 10:26:24 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By governmentman:
This map proves one thing, liberals can't do math
Or stats. Or proper cause and effect.
What is wrong? We tolerate mediocrity and call it diversity.
No wonder we are headed to hell on a fast pony.
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Posted: 1/30/2014 10:27:49 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Spade:
Originally Posted By 57Strat:
And guess who is committing the bulk of the violent crime in this country......


Link - Americas most violent cities by ranking


IIRC, that government gun study over the summer said that if you toss out NYC, Chicago, Baltimore and DC (I think it was those four) then the US has a murder rate comparable to Western European countries.

Basically, some really shitty Democrat run cities fuck up the stats for the rest of us.


The 2013 CDC study of gun control laws showed interesting results. This LINK is one of many with similar information.

"As Graham Noble of Guardian Express noted, “If one were to exclude figures for Illinois, California, New Jersey and Washington, DC, the homicide rate in the United States would be in line with any other country.” These areas, of course, are noted for the most restrictive gun laws in the country, thus negating any opportunity for the president to celebrate the report’s findings."

"Furthermore, the key finding the president was no doubt seeking — that more laws would result in less crime — was missing. The study said that “interventions,” such as background checks and restrictions on firearms and increased penalties for illegal gun use, showed “mixed” results, while “turn-in” programs “are ineffective” in reducing crime. The study noted that most criminals obtained their guns in the underground economy — from friends, family members, or gang members — well outside any influence from gun controls on legitimate gun owners."
DragoMuseveni
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Posted: 1/30/2014 10:31:46 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By sq40:
ARFCOM needs to pull together and build a city-sized ship and name it AMERICA 2.. Then get the fuck out of this nuthouse before it's too late.

That cruise would be worse than a disabled Carnival ship with infected Royal Caribbean passengers.
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Posted: 1/30/2014 10:34:03 AM
Guess we can just leave out factors like violent crime per 100k, trends on overall crime against persons since concealed carry started to spread, etc etc. In his own article he states"Direct causation could not be determined," wow that's called shooting yourself in the foot
I guess we can wrap this up and commit his latest username to the dust.
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Posted: 1/30/2014 10:35:54 AM
Good.....?
Bad..............?

I'M THE GUY WITH THE GUN!
BTccw
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Posted: 1/30/2014 10:37:44 AM
They look like more "where to move for freedom" maps to me.
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Posted: 1/30/2014 10:37:48 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By godzillamax:
Per capita measure, often a good way to get apples to apples comparisons, also can be abused to really skew things. For example, if State A has 10 million residents and 10,000 gun related deaths annually, but 90% of them are concentrated in one city/locality with a population of 500,000 people, then that states per capita gun death rate is greatly skewed by the states overall large population compared to the concentrated [city] population where the bulk of those gun death transpire. In effect the per capita measure is diluted. Conversely, comparing state A to state B which only has 500,000 residents, and experiences 1,000 gun related deaths annually, but they are fairly evenly spread amongst four to five cities/localities, would not have as great of a dilution effect as state A. That is why that map is totally bogus, because it tries to compare gun deaths throughout the entire state of Alaska with that of Illinois, when in fact most gun deaths in Illinois occur in the city of Chicago which itself is more populous than the entire state of Alaska. So the honest measure would be to compare the per capita gun death rate of the state of Alaska with the city of Chicago, and then I think we would see that Chicago with its heavy handed 2A restrictions has a much higher per capita gun death rate than the entire state of Alaska.

Also, it doesn't take a genius to figure out states with highly restrictive 2A infringements (California, New York, Illinois, etc.) still have the highest rates of gun crime/deaths if measured by the city where 90% of those crimes occur. This is proof positive that restrictive gun laws in fact don't work.



I'd like to see the map and "analysis" used at the link broken down by county rather than state. I think that would be very telling.
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