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Posted: 4/15/2001 6:41:42 PM EDT
Does anyone know the delivery time on one of these babies? I heard that there are long waits for some of the models.
Link Posted: 4/15/2001 7:01:31 PM EDT
My brother ordered a type 2, they stoped making the type 2, I guess they only had about a hundred left at the time (month ago). they shiped it out that week. Great service and a fantastic looking rifle. Parts kit? ha! It looks brand new. I want one. However, I hear the american made parts, needed to make an FAL kit legal in the US. Are on backorder, they make these also (top quality). I guess they will use them for their complete rifles. I'm still waiting.
Link Posted: 4/15/2001 7:40:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/15/2001 11:13:21 PM EDT
Have you considered Entreprise? I have their government model and its a shootin' SOB!! It doesnt look like a parts gun. Its all Steyr parts except the reciever, which is an Entreprise type 1. Look on their web site. entreprise.com. And that is the correct spelling.
Link Posted: 4/15/2001 11:14:06 PM EDT
Btw, my gun arrived one week to the day after the order was placed.
Link Posted: 4/16/2001 1:02:28 AM EDT
Not the most popular online retailer, but [url]www.rguns.net[/url] sells them for $900.00.
Link Posted: 4/20/2001 7:04:19 PM EDT
Well, I did it. I ordered an STG58A yesterday with a type 2 recevier. They have them in stock. I also got a TRILUX scope for it and an acccessory kit that has 4 20 round mags with leather pouches, leather sling and bayonet (good for opening bills with!). All for $1099.95 shipping included. Another $10 for my FFL guy. I can wait to get it to the range! Damn! Forgot the Ammo! @*&$(@(!!!!!!
Link Posted: 4/20/2001 7:17:40 PM EDT
DSA I beleive imported most if not all the Steyer kits.So they had the best pick of the parts kits.So what your getting is a Steyer FAL with a quality semi reciever.Is this the one with the Imbel reciever or did they use there own?
Link Posted: 4/20/2001 8:06:58 PM EDT
They use their own reciever, these are some high quality rifle's. you will be very pleased. I sent my Imbel kit upper to them for barreling and headspacing, plus a few other modifications. it was delivered to them on wednsday and they called me today saying it is ready. man I love these guys, I'm going to pick it up monday
Link Posted: 4/20/2001 8:21:27 PM EDT
I actually spoke with DSA today about ordering the STG58 Type 2. I faxed them a copy of my Dealer's FFL, and they faxed me their price list. The lady told me that they had the rifles ready to go. :^) The price list had a carbine listed for an additional $50. I have looked at their website a dozen times, and never noticed that they offer a carbine in the STG58 kit gun. I went back a few minutes ago, and sure enough, the carbine model is listed on the STG page. Really weird. I am convinced that the 21" barrel is the way to go, but I am a sucker for carbines. Any opinions on this issue? I found these pics on another board. Very worthy of a look. Once I saw the beauty of these pics, I just couldn't resist. Check em out. [url]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1500989&a=11326297&f=0&sp=1&vt=vpall[/url]
Link Posted: 4/20/2001 8:33:45 PM EDT
Got those off the FAL Files huh? its a damned small world. thats my brothers rifle and I took the pictures. they are good pictures but the rifle looks even better in person. I'll say it again, I love these guys.
Link Posted: 4/20/2001 8:35:11 PM EDT
YardDogOne I was wondering Because when I ordered my rifle from them last year,they said they were going to assembel some on a Imbel reciever.They said it would be cheaper than there own reciever.I know they use Steyer parts on both with a few more USA parts on the Imbel.When I ordered mine They told me almost a year wait so I grabbed a century in the meantime.I got lucky and got a really good one.It had all Steyer parts at least what I can tell by comparing with the DSA.I was going to sell it but since it works so good,you can never have to many FAL's. I used to have a preban FN and I sold it.I wonder how much thats worth now.Do they have a smiley that kicks itself in the ass?
Link Posted: 4/20/2001 8:47:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By YardDogOne: Got those off the FAL Files huh? its a damned small world. thats my brothers rifle and I took the pictures. they are good pictures but the rifle looks even better in person. I'll say it again, I love these guys.
View Quote
And a fine job ya did on those pics, YardDogOne. I generally do my homework before I drop that kind of coinage. So...what are your thoughts on the carbine version?
Link Posted: 4/20/2001 9:17:30 PM EDT
I have an Entreprise Govt. model as well and it is a very nice rifle. In fact, my FFL stated it was one of the better ones he's seen. I bought it before DSA started selling their STG58C kit rifle, but as far as the Steyr parts go, they're all the same. You can get the same parts kits Entreprise and DSA use from FAC. Some might argue the Imbel receivers are the best choice, being they were built by FN trained machinists using FN tooling. The fact they are made in Brazil doesn't diminish their quality. However, if I were given the choice today, I would go with DSA simply because they make the best USA parts, such as trigger, hammer, sear, gas piston, etc. Moreover, the Entreprise only uses 5 US parts (their receiver and 4 additional parts), which means you have to replace the floorplate and follower on all your surplus mags. To me, that is total BS. If you don't want to modify all your mags, you now have to replace two additional parts on the Entreprise, such as the buttstock and handguard. In the end it cost you more money to go with Entreprise. But the Entreprise is a good rifle. I just wish they hadn't cheaped on the US parts count.
Link Posted: 4/20/2001 9:26:29 PM EDT
Carbine version huh? If i'm not mistaken that has a 16.25" barrel. I do think the original FAL has too long of a barrel, but at the same time I think the carbine is a little too short. I sent in my upper half, one of the things I asked them to do was to shorten the barrel to 18", although they didnt shorten it, they did swap it out for a shorter one,(18" para or congo barrel) I think that length is the perfect compromise, DSA did go beyond my expectations in the service they provided. I pick it up on monday I'll try to post some pictures, oh, and did you get in on the kit buy at fal files? from what I'll have in my kit the DSA is the way to go.
Link Posted: 4/20/2001 10:15:07 PM EDT
Kit buy at FalFiles? No, I missed out on that one. I'm glad I did too. Hope you got one of the decent ones. I hear that a few folks were kinda disappointed in what they wound up with. I did the math on the kit route vs. the DSA built rifle, and decided to just go with DSA. Who needs to go through all the BS to save $100? Sure...if your not going to have a smith assemble or refinish it, you can save abit more. Personally, I don't need the BS. I can be focussing on my next purchase, while the next guy is still trying to get his kit rounded up, put together, and tuned in. It's gonna kill me to have to hand over my Beta magged Colt M4gery to the little lady, and pick up this beast. ;^) You think the muzzle blast will be out of hand on the 16 1/4" barrel? I am thinking it will be. Also, the added weight of the extra barrel length can't be that noticeable, can it? If I am gonna be lugging one of these around in the first place, I don't think I am going to be that concerned about it, am I?
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 8:19:44 AM EDT
I bought one of their carbines a couple of weeks ago. I already had a 21" FAL so I spent the extra $50 for the carbine. Glad I did. Sweet rifle! You wouldn't think the shorter 5" would make a differnce, but it does. Alot handier, manuverable, fun to shoot. I put a set of plastic hand guards on it and got some aluminum mags to make even lighter. They just lowered their price on their scope mount from $99 to $68 so I picked up one of those too. Threw an Aimpoint on top and now I'm good to go. The 30 round mags, although heavy, work well and give my evil rifle that special look. http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=1518209&a=11475378&p=46071923&f=0 http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=1518209&a=11475378&p=46515769&f=0
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 8:37:26 AM EDT
NewShot, You just had to do it, didn't ya? Anyone else?
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 8:38:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 9:12:01 AM EDT
Paul (and others), I have a couple of FAL's--DSA Standard and Carbine (factory SA-58's, not "kit guns"--more on that later) and also an SAR-48. This topic was slammed pretty hard on the FAL files board. If I recall correctly, the velocity loss of the .308 was only about 100-150 fps with the 16" barrel vs. the 21" barrel. The carbine more than makes up for the velocity loss with it's handling (I like the feel of the rifle weight centered between my hands, rather than front heavy, as the 21" bbl. seems to be). I much prefer the handling of the Carbine to the Standard or SAR-48. The only downfall to the Carbine is that it is louder for the shooter (with the muzzle brake). I would like to try out a Belgian 50.63 to see what a pre-ban Carbine sounds like. Paul may very well be right--the 18" WITHOUT a muzzle break may be a perfect compromise. I may also get a kit and build one that way. As to the DSA STG-58 "kit" guns--I had a chance to pick up a couple of them in 2 different gunstores (selling them for the Retail price of $1000). Both had a fit and finish that was on par with my "factory" guns. I would not hesitate to buy one in an instant over just about any other post ban out there. My "factory" SA-58's have as much wear (after a few rounds through each) as the "kit" guns do. Paul--FYI, you are correct on the smaller #'s = more gas, but I believe the number correspond to the vent hole, releasing gas away from the action.
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 9:40:51 AM EDT
I think 16 1/4" and 18" rifles are becoming the most popular FALs. A couple of the gunsmiths on FAL files stated they are now building more 16 1/4" rifles than anything else. Gunplumber says you need 17" or so for a full powder burn, and he feels 18" is probably the best compromise in regards to handling, retaining velocity, and complete powder burn. For 16 1/4" I would go with the DSA short brake, for anything longer the long brake would look better. Some skip the brake entirely, but with a short, light barrel it will aid in follow-up, so what the hell. It's simply a matter of preference. That FAL kit buy...I was interested in it until I saw the kits. For $100 more you can get a great STG58C kit from FAC, so I decided against it.
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 12:12:06 PM EDT
Now we're getting down to the meat of the discussion. Great points from both camps on this issue. Still undecided. :^( One thing that I DO like about the 21" barrel is the light bipod. IMO, a carbine shouldn't have a bipod on it. Nevertheless, I would like the option of installing one if I should encounter a situation that calls for it. In my mind, the 308 battle rifle was designed for extended distance fire. This is where the bipod and longer barrel would shine. hmmm. Please tell me that the carbine doesn't come with the bipod, and there is no way on God's green earth to install one, so that I can put an end to this discussion. :^) Are all these carbines an afterthought, or did Steyr actually produce some of these? Most appreciative, Joe
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 12:58:57 PM EDT
The carbine you order from DSA WILL come with a bipod (see my first pic above). I already had a 21" with wood furniture on it so I put the bipod and metal hand guards on that one. The metal handguards and bipod are heavy compared to the plastic ones and I don't think they really belong on the carbine. The 16" barrel is an after thought. It's a cut and recrowned Steyr. The .308 is an extended distance round, but it also goes though anything up closer. At distances less than 200yds there's not allot of cover you can take to escape a .308. Also velocity is not as much of an issue, basically if you can see it and you can hit it, you can kill it.
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 1:17:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 5:30:40 PM EDT
The velocity loss isn't that much. Several guys have chronoed their 16&21" FAL's and the difference is only about 150fps. If you could get into fnfal.com you could check, but it's down now. The minimal loss of velocity combined with comparable accuracy is why so many have gone to the 16".
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 5:47:41 PM EDT
Regardless of which version I go with, is there anything you guys would recommend ordering at the same time? I am going to get a pile of the $5 mags for sure. Not sure what kind of optics, if any, I want to put on this thing. I will probably just wait on the scope mount for now. The main thing is to get the rifle first! Or carbine! ;^) I have read good and bad about the SUIT scopes. I like the "X Series" butt stocks. If the long barrel is already nose heavy while carrying it by the handle, this would just exaggerate the issue. Anything that I definitely want to add to this order?
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 6:03:31 PM EDT
mattja-- do you know of a local ffl that will do the transfer? All the ones I've talked to won't touch 'em. Receiver or CA-legal rifles. Just curious.
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 8:43:40 PM EDT
I just saw a bunch of CAI FALs for sale at a gun show, what pieces of junk. For the money, they wanted $599 a copy, I would rather get a nice bushy. The finish was amateur at best and the parts still had dirt and grime on them. Some of the bolts seemed a little worn. Didn't really get a chance to look in the barrel. I have heard that some actually shoot well. Its the luck of the draw. They remind me of the MAADI-American made AK-47 that I bought and throw around. But it shoots everytime I pull the trigger. No lube, no cleaning but still goes bang. Its another matter if I have to hit something! I did see a used DSA FAL. VERY NICE. Lots of Hirtenberg ammo for $35 a 200 round battle pack.
Link Posted: 4/22/2001 7:32:31 PM EDT
They remind me of the MAADI-American made AK-47 that I bought and throw around. But it shoots everytime I pull the trigger. No lube, no cleaning but still goes bang. Its another matter if I have to hit something!
View Quote
I picked up a cheap Maadi ARM in the early 90's. Right after college. Almost forgot I even had the thing. Only put a few hundred rounds through it when I got it to make sure it was good if needed. It, indeed, never hickupped. Except for the time I had a couple of too many cold brews in me, and I shot a hole in the corner of the enclosed back porch while emptying a 30 round mag. In one wall and out the other. Wasn't the guns fault. Glad I gave up the suds a few years ago. Gotta love that cheesy laminated thumbhole stock on it, though.
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 1:58:27 AM EDT
sfoo, check your mail.
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 4:55:25 AM EDT
WOOOOHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! My STG58 is on the way!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 8:01:37 AM EDT
Hope you didn't get the last one!!! I have my order form all filled out, along with the signed FFL copy. ONLY reason I am holding back is the local show this coming weekend. I am going with the outside chance that I may find one there. If not, my order will be in the mail next Monday. Then, I'll be saying WOOOHOOOO! ;^) Which barrel did you go with? I want the Type 2 Receiver. How about yourself? Congrats, Joe
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 8:17:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cope: Hope you didn't get the last one!!! Which barrel did you go with? I want the Type 2 Receiver. How about yourself?
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I went with the full length 21". I didn't even know the carbine length was available. But I wouldn't have gotten teh carbine anyway. So say SOME of the people on FAL files that the shorter barrel the barrel gets, the closer you get to function problems. Supposedly, that can be cured by opening up the gas port, but I didn't want to fool with that. I ordered the Type 1 receiver, as the weight savings is minimal, and I DIDN'T want the carryhandle flopping around. (DSA told me to request a Type 1 specifically, to get one w/o the carryhandle.) I carry my rifle with one hand on the pistol grip, NOT like a suitcase [:D] For the $$$$, I don't believe you can get a finer rifle. or so everyone that owns one keeps saying.
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 8:22:57 AM EDT
Cope- I also ordered the scope mount top cover. $68 bucks. A friend of mine who has a DSA medium contour ordered one after having his rifle a few months. It opens up the scope option, and *** MAY *** even open up some better rear sight options.
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 11:13:31 AM EDT
The Paratrooper Flip Sight is kind of cool. I know a lot of people put them on the shorties.
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 9:07:16 PM EDT
Mine was shipped today! I was told by DSA that type 2 receivers were better because they had extra metal and the lightening cuts were not as long. DSA said it made the Receiver stiffer. They had some warping after hard use. Thus the change to the type 2 receiver. Type threes dont have the extra machining. It was an attempt to make them cheaper. I will give a range report this weekend.
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 9:59:50 PM EDT
I have both the 16 1/4" and 21" bbl FAL's, both STG 58's. I do have an AR15 also:-) The carbine is my favorite, hands down. As a matter of fact this is my second carbine. This one is built on an Entreprise Type 1 receiver. Accuracy: In preparation for the Knob Creek Assault Rifle Match I fired a five shot 100 yard group with Porteugese FNM ammo that was 2 7/8" group with four rounds in a 7/8" cluster. Not bad for an old battle rifle and my 50 year old eyes. Handling: I fired the carbine FAL with open sights in the match and my brother fired a 16" bbl AR15 with a Leupold 1.5 to 6X scope. I was as fast or faster at every stage. The 4 firing positions were standing(about 50-60 yards, kneeling (about 75 yards), sitting (about 100 yards) and prone (125 yards off the hood of a car). The STG58's do have bipods. I put one on the rifle just for the match because I learned last year to hit a 12" plate after a run was tough and I wanted the accuracy edge. BTW - I placed 32nd out of 104 shooters. Without the bipod the carbine is almost exactly the same weight as the 20" bbl AR15. Even with loaded magazines. Don't fret about the talk of inconsistant function problem as spoken of as opening the gas port is remarkably easy and the sizes of drill bits that are used are well known. I did all the port work on my first carbine and never had the first problem due to that. What can I say. It is a true battle rifle, and a great one at that. Easier to field strip than the AR. As a matter if fact I have read the break down of the FAL influenced the design requirements specs of the US military for the M16. Parts are readily available. Magazines are dirt cheap. $5-7 as opposed to $25 to $45 for M14 or H&K 91 mags, or for USGI M16 mags at $18-25?. Practical accuracy is very good. After all hitting 8-12" plates at 50 to 125 yards is like making head shots. Effectiveness...let me put it this way: If I want to wound adversaries I will use a .223. If I want to terminate them from ever being a target of mine again I will use a 7.62X51. I have my reasons for looking at it this way. My .02 cents worth. [blue]Blue207[/blue]
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 7:35:30 AM EDT
Blue207, Excellent report! Thanks for sharing your enthusiasm of these pieces with us. A couple of questions, if I may. 1. Which brake, if any, do your carbines have on them? 2. I would think that DSA would do any drilling mods necessary to the gas port to make their carbines function properly. Are any of yours DSA assembled? 3. Am I just plain nutz for having a nightmare last night about this rifle? Seriously. The last post I read before going to bed last night was your post about how much you enjoy your carbine. I awoke from a dead sleep when I reached in the box to pull out my new 21" barrelled DSA and I couldn't find the muzzle. The damn thing was sooooo long, the barrel just kept on coming out of the box as if it had no end. I swear this is true. I must be losing it, eh? Just when I thought I had made up my mind, you come along and give me nightmares. Thanks, Joe
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 9:21:34 AM EDT
Cope, Freud would say you must have a very long shlong. Actually, the DSA short brake looks great on 16 1/4" barrels. Go to [url]www.arizonaresponsesystems.com[/url] , click the "FAL" link on the left and then click the "ARS FALs for Sale" button in the middle of the page. This will give you an idea what the various configurations look like. The first rifle on the page, the 16" Standard Model, has the DSA short brake. Mighty nice looking!
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 9:54:27 AM EDT
That Freud dude sure knows his shit. [:D] Who carries the Paratrooper Flip Sights? Is this the DSA carbine brake? [img]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1518209&a=11475378&p=46077835&Sequence=0[/img]
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 10:16:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 10:30:02 AM EDT
My experience with DSA FALs, one the SA58, the other the STG58, both rifles. I was having problems with extraction and ejection that turned out to be ammo related. The stuff from ammoman.com that I now have (3000 rounds) works great and stopped these problems. One of the mags kept the bolt from going into battery. Seems the spring is too strong preventing the bolt from pivoting DOWN into battery. Once the mag problem and ammo problem were identified, they shoot great. The only problem is that the metal handguards on the STG rapidly get too hot to hold barehanded. The SA58 muzzle brake is machined into the barrel so it can only be removed by cutting the end of the barrel off. The STG brake, think it's an early one from Tapco, is really loud. O/W I like the caliber and cheap mags. If you can afford them, DSA are far and away the best.
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 11:16:45 AM EDT
Hey Cope, how did you get my pic to post? It never worked for me. The brake pictured above is the current brake offered on the STG-58A. The type 2 receiver is not stronger than the type 1, the differences are purely cosmetic. The type 2's have scallops on them so the actually have less metal. 90% of the FAL receivers out there are type 1's, I've never heard of any warping. Either way, DSA receivers are machined from a solid block of steel so they are stronger than any of the originals. Don't think you can get a type 2 on a carbine though, just the rifles. A far as the gas port goes, I don't know that they neccesarily open it up since you can just adjust it yourself. [img]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=1518209&a=11475378&p=46071923&f=0[/img]
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 11:25:22 AM EDT
I just purchased my StG 58, is a type 1 carbine with a zeroclimb brake. Less than $600.00 for it, NIB. Heheh...just one more way for me to throw 308 downrange... [heavy]
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 11:47:09 AM EDT
That DSA brake looks like the short version of the Steyr FH. The long version looks nice too, but on a 21" barrel it really adds to the length. If I were to purchase just one extra item I would go with the DSA top cover as Paul mentioned. Those things are reported as being the best.
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 12:14:15 PM EDT
The DSA top cover/scope mount is the best. Rock solid and NO movement. They're aluminium so they don't add allot of extra weight. MB is just a mini Steyr, puts some more balance up front.
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 4:24:31 PM EDT
You mean like this, NewShot? [img]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1518209&a=11475378&p=46071923&Sequence=0[/img]
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 4:27:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AKARguy: I just purchased my StG 58, is a type 1 carbine with a zeroclimb brake. Less than $600.00 for it, NIB. Heheh...just one more way for me to throw 308 downrange... [heavy]
View Quote
Which receiver?
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 8:26:44 PM EDT
Thats a type 2 receiver if its from DSA. You can tell by the downward lightening cuts on the bottom of the receiver, above the pistol grip. Type 1 will have straight ones. Austrian STG58a's, I was told by DSA have type 2s. The DSA guys went into a really detailed history when I asked what the difference was. For the kind of shooting most of do, it really wont make a difference. But the guy said the type 2s were developed later after battle experience. I guess there was some breakages in the rear of the receiver and bending. For all I know he could have had too many type 2s around.
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 8:36:39 PM EDT
Ordered a STG58A Type 2 Carbine Model -- Part # STG58-T2C last week from my dealer. Wooooowwww! I am so excited!
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 9:00:41 PM EDT
Hey, Garandman, glad you finally went for it! Uncle stole my STG58A on April 15, but since I already had one of DSA's medium contours, I didn't feel too bad (well, that's a lie, but I'm trying to put a good front on it)...Hope she exceeds your expectations. Enjoy!
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