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Posted: 1/25/2014 12:27:42 AM EDT
[#1]
You make a valid point.
But on balance, taking tax money away from the communists is always a good thing. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 12:29:05 AM EDT
[#2]
True but now CA won't get any of the tax benefits from the sales.
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Posted: 1/25/2014 12:29:54 AM EDT
[#3]
I'm hoping that all the major manufacturers pull out because of the micro-stamping requirement.
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Posted: 1/25/2014 12:34:52 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
True but now CA won't get any of the tax benefits from the sales. But don't you think this is a "cutting off your nose to spite your face" deal? I just can't bring myself to find this move to be a good thing unless these companies cutoff LE sales which I am betting they will not do. As far as tax revenue goes, does anyone have any idea what the percentage of the total sales taxes CA sees comes from semi-auto handguns? |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 12:45:49 AM EDT
[#5]
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/01/23/California-Roll-Forward-Microstamping-Punishes-Firearm-Innovation
Sources explain that CA is requiring "roll forward" microstamping, which means manufacturers must revamp their production line to incorporate microstamping when a design change makes a given firearm better. From the point of improvement forward they must identify their firearms with a firing pin fingerprint or microstamp. This means a handgun which was on the CA approved roster yesterday is considered a new firearm and must meet the microstamping requirement rolling forward if it receives a change as small as an internal component – a new spring, for example. The cost of complying with this requirement is unknown, but normal production costs will certainly rise. Yes, let's make it so everyone absorbs the cost of complying with California's bullshit law. Then once CA compliance is in place, there will no added financial burden beyond what is needed to maintain that if other states want to pass similar laws. This shit is chess not checkers. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 12:46:02 AM EDT
[#6]
I think it's good because the legal requirements instituted by CA effectively ban new guns. If you have S&W, Ruger, and maybe even Glock refusing to play CA's stupid games it makes CA's laws a de facto gun ban and will be legally challenged.
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Posted: 1/25/2014 1:36:26 AM EDT
[#7]
Yes but if you CA residents would vote the asshats out of office that come up with shit your state would be a better place. IMO California will not have any handguns soon do to this micro stamping, which will the go to Supreme Court and they will strike the law down like they did in DC.
Microstamping= Handgun Ban |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 1:39:17 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: You do realize that this is what the antis want correct? Gun owners are the ones that are being hurt here. These companies will still be able to sell to LE agencies within CA as they are exempt from the microstamping requirement. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 1:46:42 AM EDT
[#9]
So can they still buy used firearms that don't have the micro stamping? If they are exempt I could see a lot of "used" fire arms becoming available in Cali.
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Posted: 1/25/2014 1:50:19 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So can they still buy used firearms that don't have the micro stamping? If they are exempt I could see a lot of "used" fire arms becoming available. Yes. A handgun need not be on the Roster if sold PPT. (Still has to go through a FFL and all) Buying from a shop direct, though, IIRC (Could be wrong) it has to be Roster compliant. I think. I hope I'm wrong about that part. Unfortunately, again IIRC, CA also limits the number of "allowed" PPT of handguns per year. But those transfers are exempt from the 1/month limit as well. Have I mentioned, fuck those big-city politicians with a rusty railroad spike? 
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Posted: 1/25/2014 1:56:13 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't waste your time. Plenty of people here don't give a shit about other gun owners. Every man for himself. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You do realize that this is what the antis want correct? Gun owners are the ones that are being hurt here. These companies will still be able to sell to LE agencies within CA as they are exempt from the microstamping requirement. I can't argue your point, I've seen it myself. It seems like it is time to tell state legislators, whether it be Colorado. New York, or Cali, etc., to go pound sand when it comes to B.S. laws. Wins like these are important, we need all we can get. Saul Alinsky's rules for Radicals. They use them, and we should also. Incrementalism will kill us as sure as an outright ban. Eternal vigilance Y'all.... |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 1:56:35 AM EDT
[#12]
They should definitely stop selling to LEO's also.
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Posted: 1/25/2014 1:58:56 AM EDT
[#13]
Its only good if they stop LEO sales.
If not, fuck them. They and others are still on my list for not supporting us in NY. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 2:01:29 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't waste your time. Plenty of people here don't give a shit about other gun owners. Every man for himself. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You do realize that this is what the antis want correct? Gun owners are the ones that are being hurt here. These companies will still be able to sell to LE agencies within CA as they are exempt from the microstamping requirement.  |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 2:02:40 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They should definitely stop selling to LEO's also. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 2:04:39 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They should definitely stop selling to LEO's also. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Yup. A gun manufacturer that will not do that is anti-gun IMHO. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 2:13:30 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/01/23/California-Roll-Forward-Microstamping-Punishes-Firearm-Innovation Sources explain that CA is requiring "roll forward" microstamping, which means manufacturers must revamp their production line to incorporate microstamping when a design change makes a given firearm better. From the point of improvement forward they must identify their firearms with a firing pin fingerprint or microstamp. This means a handgun which was on the CA approved roster yesterday is considered a new firearm and must meet the microstamping requirement rolling forward if it receives a change as small as an internal component – a new spring, for example. The cost of complying with this requirement is unknown, but normal production costs will certainly rise. Yes, let's make it so everyone absorbs the cost of complying with California's bullshit law. Then once CA compliance is in place, there will no added financial burden beyond what is needed to maintain that if other states want to pass similar laws. This shit is chess not checkers. As is often the case, Lumpy nails it. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 2:20:34 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't waste your time. Plenty of people here don't give a shit about other gun owners. Every man for himself. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You do realize that this is what the antis want correct? Gun owners are the ones that are being hurt here. These companies will still be able to sell to LE agencies within CA as they are exempt from the microstamping requirement. I disagree, and I hope this is a lesson to gun owners everywhere that they're losing to incrementalism while the antis maintain the narrative that they only want "just one more common sense law and we're done." People don't really feel like their rights are being violated until that loss directly effects them. For example, S&W and Ruger stop selling in CA, so the people think "Well I still have Springfield, Glock, Beretta, etc., so I haven't really lost anything." It appears it's just a few more models off the list, but who cares, there are so many other choices? However, if EVERY handgun manufacturer stopped selling in California, the general sense may hopefully change to "Oh my god, I simply can't buy a handgun anymore, this shit has to stop." Think of it as spanking your kid. We've tried to reason, we've used logic, and the idiots keep allowing the bad guys to win political office. IMO, S&W and Ruger may not simply be enough. It's time to stop crying wolf and send a message to California gun owners and everyone else in the blue states: You reap what you sow. Tough love is the answer. Good on S&W, good on Ruger. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 2:23:31 AM EDT
[#19]
Legislation has consequences...capitalism at work.
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Posted: 1/25/2014 2:34:23 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aimless Don't waste your time. Plenty of people here don't give a shit about other gun owners. Every man for himself. I believe most members here do have a lot of empathy for your situation, but what options do we have? It's not that people here don't give a shit, what are they supposed to do? We don't live in your states, we have no vote, the cards have been stacked against you both electorally and judicially. To those outside your states it seems like you have lost the battle, you're outnumbered by the twits who keep electing these gun grabbing bastards,who keep pushing and pushing and there doesn't seem to be a way to stem the tide. I wouldn't say it's every man for himself, I see it as frustration with the whole situation, the powerlessness we all feel, knowing full well this shit is coming down the line to our own state houses and courts. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 2:46:30 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Legislation has consequences...capitalism at work. Vote with your feet. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 2:48:49 AM EDT
[#22]
As I see it this is the 10th at work (cept for the whole violating the constitution thing). Let the states decide what dumbass laws to implement and let the other states learn from their fine example. This to me is akin to watching an idiot touch a hot stove. Letting it happen may not be the best for the one doing the touching but is good medicine for the 49 others who are watching it happen. Just like NYCs new mayor. Let that shit happen so that cesspool can be a shining example of what NOT to do. This all depends on the other 49 states making the right choice though so I may be the delusional one here.
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Posted: 1/25/2014 2:52:09 AM EDT
[#23]
I think it's a good thing, they need to take it to the Barrett level and refuse to sell to California law enforcement agencies as well.
Eventually with an unarmed citizenry, the Mexican Drug Cartel will rule California |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 2:53:05 AM EDT
[#24]
just walk away. give them enough rope and los angeles will become detroit or mexico city actually.
makes zero sense to exempt cops. don't we want to know who fired what and where from the brass at a scene where an officer discharges? makes no sense. drawn lines are getting clearer. it's only a matter of time before a clash. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 2:53:07 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They should definitely stop selling to LEO's also. Barrett did years ago, other companies need to get with the program |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 2:53:18 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe most members here do have a lot of empathy for your situation, but what options do we have? It's not that people here don't give a shit, what are they supposed to do? We don't live in your states, we have no vote, the cards have been stacked against you both electorally and judicially. To those outside your states it seems like you have lost the battle, you're outnumbered by the twits who keep electing these gun grabbing bastards,who keep pushing and pushing and there doesn't seem to be a way to stem the tide. I wouldn't say it's every man for himself, I see it as frustration with the whole situation, the powerlessness we all feel, knowing full well this shit is coming down the line to our own state houses and courts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Originally Posted By Aimless
Don't waste your time. Plenty of people here don't give a shit about other gun owners. Every man for himself. It's not that people here don't give a shit, what are they supposed to do? We don't live in your states, we have no vote, the cards have been stacked against you both electorally and judicially. To those outside your states it seems like you have lost the battle, you're outnumbered by the twits who keep electing these gun grabbing bastards,who keep pushing and pushing and there doesn't seem to be a way to stem the tide. I wouldn't say it's every man for himself, I see it as frustration with the whole situation, the powerlessness we all feel, knowing full well this shit is coming down the line to our own state houses and courts. The problem is, this shit spreads.. I live in PA, where the state politics are largely dictated by what goes on in the population centers of Philadelphia, Harrisburg, and Pittsburgh..all liberal strongholds. Frankly, I am amazed that PA has not fallen to the anti's yet, though I suspect we are only a few election cycles away from that happening if our AG Kathleen Kane makes a run for governor. I have yet to see any valid argument where what is going on in CA is in any shape or form a "victory" for gun owners, especially with LE being exempt...Overturned in the courts? Not likely..the federal courts in that area are stacked with liberals. We are all losing here. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 2:56:54 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
just walk away. give them enough rope and los angeles will become detroit or mexico city actually. makes zero sense to exempt cops. don't we want to know who fired what and where from the brass at a scene where an officer discharges? makes no sense. drawn lines are getting clearer. it's only a matter of time before a clash. I seem to recall that micro stamping was a pipe dream anyway. Something about slight deformations of the metals involved rendering it useless. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 2:58:03 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
True but now CA won't get any of the tax benefits from the sales. This. What they want more than anything is tax money to pay for all their programs. OP wants to stop them by cutting off a finger, when the only real way to stop it is by cutting off the head of the monster. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 3:02:44 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
You do realize that this is what the antis want correct? Gun owners are the ones that are being hurt here. These companies will still be able to sell to LE agencies within CA as they are exempt from the microstamping requirement. The recent moves are purely financial. I agree with the gun companies. The California legislature has implemented so many policies / procedures / requirements that is not financially viable to do business there. The quicker companies realize this and pull out of the CA market...the better. At that point, CA citizens will understand they sliced their own throats. CA is on a path of rapid self-destruction. I say we simply push them along to the final scene. If I was a gun company, weapons, arms etc..I would refuse all sales of all products to ALL addresses in CA. Let them suffer the fate they created |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 3:04:40 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. What they want more than anything is tax money to pay for all their programs. OP wants to stop them by cutting off a finger, when the only real way to stop it is by cutting off the head of the monster. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
True but now CA won't get any of the tax benefits from the sales. This. What they want more than anything is tax money to pay for all their programs. OP wants to stop them by cutting off a finger, when the only real way to stop it is by cutting off the head of the monster. What percentage of total tax revenue in the state of CA comes from new semiautomatic pistol sales? |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 3:06:46 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You do realize that this is what the antis want correct? Gun owners are the ones that are being hurt here. These companies will still be able to sell to LE agencies within CA as they are exempt from the microstamping requirement.
He's just pissy because he's decided to stay in NY and live with the unSafe Act, and continue to give the people that hate him his hard earned (well, maybe not) tax money. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 3:10:45 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He's just pissy because he's decided to stay in NY and live with the unSafe Act, and continue to give the people that hate him his hard earned (well, maybe not) tax money. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You do realize that this is what the antis want correct? Gun owners are the ones that are being hurt here. These companies will still be able to sell to LE agencies within CA as they are exempt from the microstamping requirement.
He's just pissy because he's decided to stay in NY and live with the unSafe Act, and continue to give the people that hate him his hard earned (well, maybe not) tax money. Not really fair...Not everyone can just up and move at the drop of a hat. Should similar legislation pass in PA, Id be stuck here, unable to move unless I wanted to take a massive salary cut. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 3:15:30 AM EDT
[#33]
Well if S&W and Ruger don't build them, then Ca can't buy them, even LE has to use compliant guns, if there not made how can they be bought, so ya these 2 compaines will make a stance and a good one just like barret.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think it's a good thing, they need to take it to the Barrett level and refuse to sell to California law enforcement agencies as well. Eventually with an unarmed citizenry, the Mexican Drug Cartel will rule California |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 3:17:27 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He's just pissy because he's decided to stay in NY and live with the unSafe Act, and continue to give the people that hate him his hard earned (well, maybe not) tax money. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You do realize that this is what the antis want correct? Gun owners are the ones that are being hurt here. These companies will still be able to sell to LE agencies within CA as they are exempt from the microstamping requirement.
He's just pissy because he's decided to stay in NY and live with the unSafe Act, and continue to give the people that hate him his hard earned (well, maybe not) tax money. True to a point but show a little sympathy. I feel VERY bad for our brothers and sisters behind enemy lines. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 3:23:44 AM EDT
[#35]
This may be a dumb question, but just how much information can be "micro-stamped" on a firing pin to begin with? Seems like it would be very limited and would be rendered unreadable with wear.
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Posted: 1/25/2014 3:25:37 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't waste your time. Plenty of people here don't give a shit about other gun owners. Every man for himself. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You do realize that this is what the antis want correct? Gun owners are the ones that are being hurt here. These companies will still be able to sell to LE agencies within CA as they are exempt from the microstamping requirement. Yes, those who choose to continue to live in California don't give a damn about the dangerous precedent and negative impact on all gun owners in having the gun manufacturers prop up the California gunlaw circus by agreeing to accomodate the micro stamping law. Refusing to march to the micro stamping song and dance is to great credit of the companies who are resisting tyranny by saying fuck off to California Law. Let's face it, tough talk aside, those who continue to live in states where the handwriting was on the wall for years, would just as soon see everyone with a micro stamped pistol simply because their state enacted some law designed solely to discourage gun ownership. Tossing California's bullshit laws right back at the state government is a great example of actually giving a shit for all gunowners. "Will not comply" is a legitimate means of resistance. Now it's up to California Gunowners to take the law to court. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 3:41:10 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This may be a dumb question, but just how much information can be "micro-stamped" on a firing pin to begin with? Seems like it would be very limited and would be rendered unreadable with wear. Age Race Social Sexual Orientation Marital status Penis Length |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 3:41:35 AM EDT
[#38]
It is a good thing. Lumpy has some good points on the issue.
Also, remember that Ruger and s&w are public companies. Everything they do needs to be able to be justified to their shareholders in terms of money. These explanations could be short term or long term and can incorporate many factors. If microstamping is seen as giving in to the antis will it cause sales to drop? Will California sales be enough to cover the microstamping costs if the price increase on guns is limited to CA models? If the price increases are not limited to CA, will increased prices for all guns cause a loss in revenue? If microstamping is perceived as legitimate, possible, and that manufacturers are willing to accommodate lawmakers, will the practice spread to other states? If the practice spreads, will the effects on the industry in general, and RGR and SWHC specifically, be positive or negative for the stockholders? |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 3:46:56 AM EDT
[#39]
If anything, it will create a new black market. Guns will flow in from surrounding states to fill the void. Antis will cry, and their tears are sweet.
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Posted: 1/25/2014 3:47:59 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If anything, it will create a new black market. Guns will flow in from surrounding states to fill the void. Antis will cry, and their tears are sweet. Their tears keep me young. 
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Posted: 1/25/2014 3:48:00 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, those who choose to continue to live in California don't give a damn about the dangerous precedent and negative impact on all gun owners in having the gun manufacturers prop up the California gunlaw circus by agreeing to accomodate the micro stamping law. Refusing to march to the micro stamping song and dance is to great credit of the companies who are resisting tyranny by saying fuck off to California Law. Let's face it, tough talk aside, those who continue to live in states where the handwriting was on the wall for years, would just as soon see everyone with a micro stamped pistol simply because their state enacted some law designed solely to discourage gun ownership. Tossing California's bullshit laws right back at the state government is a great example of actually giving a shit for all gunowners. "Will not comply" is a legitimate means of resistance. Now it's up to California Gunowners to take the law to court. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You do realize that this is what the antis want correct? Gun owners are the ones that are being hurt here. These companies will still be able to sell to LE agencies within CA as they are exempt from the microstamping requirement. Yes, those who choose to continue to live in California don't give a damn about the dangerous precedent and negative impact on all gun owners in having the gun manufacturers prop up the California gunlaw circus by agreeing to accomodate the micro stamping law. Refusing to march to the micro stamping song and dance is to great credit of the companies who are resisting tyranny by saying fuck off to California Law. Let's face it, tough talk aside, those who continue to live in states where the handwriting was on the wall for years, would just as soon see everyone with a micro stamped pistol simply because their state enacted some law designed solely to discourage gun ownership. Tossing California's bullshit laws right back at the state government is a great example of actually giving a shit for all gunowners. "Will not comply" is a legitimate means of resistance. Now it's up to California Gunowners to take the law to court. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 3:50:03 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By glocke12 The problem is, this shit spreads.. I live in PA, where the state politics are largely dictated by what goes on in the population centers of Philadelphia, Harrisburg, and Pittsburgh..all liberal strongholds. Frankly, I am amazed that PA has not fallen to the anti's yet, though I suspect we are only a few election cycles away from that happening if our AG Kathleen Kane makes a run for governor. I have yet to see any valid argument where what is going on in CA is in any shape or form a "victory" for gun owners, especially with LE being exempt...Overturned in the courts? Not likely..the federal courts in that area are stacked with liberals. We are all losing here. In regards to the situation in California, I agree it could be construed as "cutting of your nose to spite your face" for gun owners, but I'm sure it was a good business decision for the companies involved. With that being said, maybe we as gun owners need to pressure these companies not to do business in these states, period. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 3:51:51 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes but if you CA residents would vote the asshats out of office that come up with shit your state would be a better place. IMO California will not have any handguns soon do to this micro stamping, which will the go to Supreme Court and they will strike the law down like they did in DC. Microstamping= Handgun Ban They can't. They're so greatly outnumbered by voting illegals, FSA, and communist fuckwits that it's numerically impossible to reverse anything done to that state by the above parties in the past 50 years short of breaking off the major cities and making them their own state. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 3:56:57 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, agree. The regular every shooter really is not intereested in the political aspect of shooting, all they just want is to shoot. Years ago, when the CA legislature passed the 2nd AW ban, I got together with a other like minded people to gathers to overturn the ban, many of the people question why they must sign, and many also refused to sign the petition. Many said they are a member of the NRA and they will take care of it for them, etc etc. Can you blame people forn not wanting to sign a petition when our governments, starting at the top with the Feds, are using their power to harrass, intimidate, and disenfranchise those that disagree with them? Chilling effect in action. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 3:58:51 AM EDT
[#45]
If all the gun manufacturers would pull out , refuse to sell to LE, then you would have a real chance .
As it stands , no one gives a fuck if a couple pull out. Pro gunners can point and say "hey those guys are on our side" , Antis use it to say, those manufacturers hate children. Things will continue pretty much unabated in places like CA,NY,IL, step by step , the antis are winning and will eventually get an outright ban and confiscation law passed. Will it be tomorrow? No. But its coming. You cannot defeat demographics. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 4:02:18 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Barrett did years ago, other companies need to get with the program Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They should definitely stop selling to LEO's also. Barrett did years ago, other companies need to get with the program The manufacturers need to stick together and stand firm, following Barrett's example. These half measures are weak sauce. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 4:02:41 AM EDT
[#47]
Considering the tiny size of the firing pin/stamping die; I wonder if micro stamping would require that a special primer be used on all ammunition in order for the stamping to be readable, leading to more bullshit infringements down the road.
Micro stamping isn't intended to reduce crime, it's purpose is to reduce gunownership. |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 4:04:34 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup. A gun manufacturer that will not do that is anti-gun IMHO. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They should definitely stop selling to LEO's also. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Yup. A gun manufacturer that will not do that is anti-gun IMHO. Free market Capitalism Business are about money not making a political stand. People on EE and all over the Internet already dont do sales to CA, are these guys antigun also? |
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Posted: 1/25/2014 4:07:54 AM EDT
[#49]
They should stop selling to LEO, and stop all support, training, repair, and parts as well.
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Posted: 1/25/2014 4:07:59 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can you blame people forn not wanting to sign a petition when our governments, starting at the top with the Feds, are using their power to harrass, intimidate, and disenfranchise those that disagree with them? Chilling effect in action. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yep, agree. The regular every shooter really is not intereested in the political aspect of shooting, all they just want is to shoot. Years ago, when the CA legislature passed the 2nd AW ban, I got together with a other like minded people to gathers to overturn the ban, many of the people question why they must sign, and many also refused to sign the petition. Many said they are a member of the NRA and they will take care of it for them, etc etc. Can you blame people forn not wanting to sign a petition when our governments, starting at the top with the Feds, are using their power to harrass, intimidate, and disenfranchise those that disagree with them? Chilling effect in action. I was told the other day right here in GD that disenfranchisement of Americans was a myth. |
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