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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:00:26 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anything from Hollywood should be taken as entertainment, not education. The Star Wars movies are factual, aren't they? I mean it all happened a long, long time ago...so they had time to get the facts straight. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:00:31 AM EDT
[#2]
Marcus is okay with the book and the movie, therefore I am as well.
HBO recently had a 30 minute piece where they followed Marcus around as he was on the set of the movie helping them get everything right. From phrases he told his teammates to where the CD player was in the bunkhouse to how he repositioned his wounded teammate. I trust his word more then some nobody on the internet. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:00:39 AM EDT
[#3]
Who fucking cares?
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:00:43 AM EDT
[#4]
I thought the only real point of contention was the number of enemy fighters? The book says 100+, but in reality it was closer to 10-20
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:02:27 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a lot of respect for Luttrell and take his word on what happened. He was there, not me. From a historical perspective, you should never totally rely on combat eyewitnesses. My grandfather, who was an ANGLICO at Inchon that went ashore on Blue Beach with A/1/1, was missing hours of time on the day of the invasion. He remembered 3/5 going ashore at Green Beach and then remembered going in right after them to Blue Beach. He had no recollection of the hours he spent waiting while the tide went out and came back after wolmi-do was taken. Mostly because he was busy doing other things and wondering if he was going to get killed. I didn't talk about it much with him because it made him angry, probably because he didn't understand why he was missing time (nor did I at the time). I'd be shocked if Luttrell remembered everything right. At the time of the events the man was desperately trying to not die, which means his brain probably wasn't wasting time recording everything for posterity as it was busy doing other things. Combine that with all the other psychological effects of stress too. You get that for a lot of combat accounts. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:02:35 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just finished "Victory Point" and while it tells the story of the larger operation that "Lone Survivor" was part of, I don't recall it getting into the details of what happened to Luttrell's team. Nobody could tell that story except Luttrell himself. How anybody could point to a book written by someone who never spoke to ML, and doesn't contain any details about what happened to his team, as somehow proving Luttrell's book is fiction is beyond me. I don't recall reading anything in VP that "disproved" anything in Luttrell's book. There are tons of things that disprove what is in Robinson's book. -There wasn't 200 ACM attacking the SEALs, there was 8-10. -Shah wasn't an HVT, he was a low-level insurgent before the incident. -Luttrell was never tortured by Shah's ACM after seeking refuge in the village, as they were already back in Pakistan, or on their way there. -The was never a point where hundreds of ACM were streaming down a mountain side coming to attack the village, as Marcus was being evacuated, where Marcus called in air-strikes and decimated them. -The recon team was told by the Marines that their coms wouldn't work in that area. -Red Wings was not a NSW operation, it was a Marine operation. The SEALs were brought in at the last minute due to command conflicts between JSOC and the Marines. These are just some of the points that show that there is a much more detailed, complete, and factual account of what happened. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:03:39 AM EDT
[#7]
I tend to believe the research in Victory Point. I think there are a lot of inaccuracies in Lone Survivor, and that they are largely based on it being ghost written to make it more of a thriller. I'm not sure it matters in the grand scheme of things.
It was named operation Red Wings for a start, all those ops were named after sports teams, and there is no Dertoit Red Wing. Again, not sure it really matters. The plot points are the same, the details differ. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:04:56 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well said. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's really going on? This has you wrapped a little to tight? OP, nobody cares. Well said. Insults are the last bastion of the intellectually defeated. If you have something to add to the discussion, feel free to do so. Other than that, it would be appreciated if we could not act like junior high students. Plus, we're not talking about comparing the film to reality. This thread is about comparing the BOOK to reality. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:05:48 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well said. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's really going on? This has you wrapped a little to tight? OP, nobody cares. Well said. Goin with this. His Rainier thread is another shining example of this... |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:06:18 AM EDT
[#10]
what is next ? Wrestling ? the tooth fairy ? Santa Claus ? next the op will tell me that all of my heroes are fake , I am saddened greatly
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:07:33 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From the book: "and the heavy, powerful 300 Win Mag bolt-action .308 caliber rifle"  Also the reference of 223.5.56mm caliber and gauge. Does not sound like words from a SEAL or any military type. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If I remember correctly, the official account of Operation Red Wing, and the account in the book "Lone Survivor" differ in the number of enemy that supposedly engaged them. I have read both, a long time ago, and I remember finding the editing in the book lacking in a few areas. The author got some basic military terminology wrong. I mean shit like "5.56 caliber" instead of 5.56mm; you know, basic day one private shit WRONG That, and the accounts of the fighting. Read the book sometime... it all came across as very Hollywood compared to every other first person account of combat that I've ever read, and anything that I have ever experienced myself. From the book: "and the heavy, powerful 300 Win Mag bolt-action .308 caliber rifle" Also the reference of 223.5.56mm caliber and gauge. Does not sound like words from a SEAL or any military type. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:08:33 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Insults are the last bastion of the intellectually defeated. If you have something to add to the discussion, feel free to do so. Other than that, it would be appreciated if we could not act like junior high students. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What's really going on? This has you wrapped a little to tight? OP, nobody cares. Well said. Insults are the last bastion of the intellectually defeated. If you have something to add to the discussion, feel free to do so. Other than that, it would be appreciated if we could not act like junior high students. I laughed. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:11:36 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Insults are the last bastion of the intellectually defeated. If you have something to add to the discussion, feel free to do so. Other than that, it would be appreciated if we could not act like junior high students. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What's really going on? This has you wrapped a little to tight? OP, nobody cares. Well said. Insults are the last bastion of the intellectually defeated. If you have something to add to the discussion, feel free to do so. Other than that, it would be appreciated if we could not act like junior high students. OP is a fag. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:13:59 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've got something to add. OP is a fag. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's really going on? This has you wrapped a little to tight? OP, nobody cares. Well said. Insults are the last bastion of the intellectually defeated. If you have something to add to the discussion, feel free to do so. Other than that, it would be appreciated if we could not act like junior high students. OP is a fag. Brilliant. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:15:31 AM EDT
[#15]
I have not read the book or plan on seeing the movie. What I do know from life experience is, for snatch/grab missions Seal teams are on a short list of units to call. If Luttrell's team was inserted for a grab mission or just for recon does not matter much, bottom line is the piece of dirt they were on that day turned into a two way range. Luttrell survived and he has to live with his survivor remorse, how he moves ahead with his life is his deal, for those who want to judge that, makes you look petty and short minded.
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:15:36 AM EDT
[#16]
The horror. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:15:51 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Instead of posting vague questions that you don't expect us to know, how about you just state your reasoning on why the book is a work of fiction? reading the Rainier arms thread made me understand..... holy fuck
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:16:22 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
....and the book. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Long story short; there was a 4 man SEAL recon team on Sawtalo Sar looking for Ahmad Shah. They were compromised, ambushed, and 3 of them killed. There was a rescue MH-47 with SEALs and 160th SOAR personnel that was shot down, killing all hands on board. Marcus Luttrell was taken in by a village, and rescued. You just described the movie. 
....and the book. The book is an often touching story of the relationship between a Navy SEAL and the villager who saved him. And the reaction of the SEAL to the loss of his teamates. If you expect an action adventure novel you will be dissapointed by the book. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:18:45 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Insults are the last bastion of the intellectually defeated. If you have something to add to the discussion, feel free to do so. Other than that, it would be appreciated if we could not act like junior high students. Plus, we're not talking about comparing the film to reality. This thread is about comparing the BOOK to reality. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What's really going on? This has you wrapped a little to tight? OP, nobody cares. Well said. Insults are the last bastion of the intellectually defeated. If you have something to add to the discussion, feel free to do so. Other than that, it would be appreciated if we could not act like junior high students. Plus, we're not talking about comparing the film to reality. This thread is about comparing the BOOK to reality. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:19:12 AM EDT
[#20]
Late to the party but in on 3 
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:22:46 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From the book: "and the heavy, powerful 300 Win Mag bolt-action .308 caliber rifle"
You do realize .300 Win Mag uses 7.62mm projectiles right? |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:23:07 AM EDT
[#22]
It seems to me that OP simply does not want to come out and say Marcus Luttrell is either a liar or standing by a written script by the DoN... But would rather simply say... I am not saying Marcus Luttrell fabricated anything, but what he is saying is not what Victory Point said actually happened. However, it is very clear that OP does believe that Marcus Luttrell's account is a lie or that he is endorsing a lie. My question is why will you simply not just state it? Your continued grudge against what has been continually held as truth by the man that was in the direct action described by Lone Survivor and in one on one interviews is very telling on where you stand on this. Hiding behind the "read for yourself" stance is a lame attempt to mask what you really want to say. There are many thing written about many different operations, firefights, assaults, battle plans, from many varying perspectives. And every reader has the ability to take those written accounts as fact, fiction or somewhere in between. But when a man that directly fought and survived the specific engagement tells his story, I will believe him. This is not hero worship, but respect and trust for warrior that lived the event being discussed.
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:24:13 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:where is your tank? The standard place......bolted to the bowl. Why do you ask? |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:25:41 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lots of other people were "there". How many assets were on the hillside when Dietz, Axelson, and Murphy were killed, and Luttrell wounded? |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:26:59 AM EDT
[#25]
O look I have an ignore button.
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:27:43 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are tons of things that disprove what is in Robinson's book. -There wasn't 200 ACM attacking the SEALs, there was 8-10. -Shah wasn't an HVT, he was a low-level insurgent before the incident. -Luttrell was never tortured by Shah's ACM after seeking refuge in the village, as they were already back in Pakistan, or on their way there. -The was never a point where hundreds of ACM were streaming down a mountain side coming to attack the village, as Marcus was being evacuated, where Marcus called in air-strikes and decimated them. -The recon team was told by the Marines that their coms wouldn't work in that area. -Red Wings was not a NSW operation, it was a Marine operation. The SEALs were brought in at the last minute due to command conflicts between JSOC and the Marines. These are just some of the points that show that there is a much more detailed, complete, and factual account of what happened. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I just finished "Victory Point" and while it tells the story of the larger operation that "Lone Survivor" was part of, I don't recall it getting into the details of what happened to Luttrell's team. Nobody could tell that story except Luttrell himself. How anybody could point to a book written by someone who never spoke to ML, and doesn't contain any details about what happened to his team, as somehow proving Luttrell's book is fiction is beyond me. I don't recall reading anything in VP that "disproved" anything in Luttrell's book. There are tons of things that disprove what is in Robinson's book. -There wasn't 200 ACM attacking the SEALs, there was 8-10. -Shah wasn't an HVT, he was a low-level insurgent before the incident. -Luttrell was never tortured by Shah's ACM after seeking refuge in the village, as they were already back in Pakistan, or on their way there. -The was never a point where hundreds of ACM were streaming down a mountain side coming to attack the village, as Marcus was being evacuated, where Marcus called in air-strikes and decimated them. -The recon team was told by the Marines that their coms wouldn't work in that area. -Red Wings was not a NSW operation, it was a Marine operation. The SEALs were brought in at the last minute due to command conflicts between JSOC and the Marines. These are just some of the points that show that there is a much more detailed, complete, and factual account of what happened. And just how are any of those facts relevant to entertainment? |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:27:50 AM EDT
[#27]
At least you didn't spoil Christmas with any revelations about Santa.
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:28:33 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The standard place......bolted to the bowl. Why do you ask? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:where is your tank? The standard place......bolted to the bowl. Why do you ask? |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:29:40 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It seems to me that OP simply does not want to come out and say Marcus Luttrell is either a liar or standing by a written script by the DoN... But would rather simply say... I am not saying Marcus Luttrell fabricated anything, but what he is saying is not what Victory Point said actually happened. However, it is very clear that OP does believe that Marcus Luttrell's account is a lie or that he is endorsing a lie. My question is why will you simply not just state it? Your continued grudge against what has been continually held as truth by the man that was in the direct action described by Lone Survivor and in one on one interviews is very telling on where you stand on this. Hiding behind the "read for yourself" stance is a lame attempt to mask what you really want to say. There are many thing written about many different operations, firefights, assaults, battle plans, from many varying perspectives. And every reader has the ability to take those written accounts as fact, fiction or somewhere in between. But when a man that directly fought and survived the specific engagement tells his story, I will believe him. This is not hero worship, but respect and trust for warrior that lived the event being discussed. I've stated it before, and I have no problem stating it again. Lone Survivor is largely fiction, and Marcus is going along with the story as Robinson wrote it. If you have read any of the other threads where this has been discussed before (there have been a few), you would know this already. You can trust that the book "Lone Survivor" represents what actually happened, and you can trust that the things Marcus has said in various interviews supporting both the book and the movie are true. I myself won't. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:30:21 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:And just how are any of those facts relevant to entertainment? Who said they were? |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:31:16 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
what makes you an expert in military tactics? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:where is your tank? The standard place......bolted to the bowl. Why do you ask? When did I say I was? And where did anyone talk about any specific Military tactics? All I have done is share some facts and derived opinions from "Victory Point". |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:31:25 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tell ya what, OP. Why don't you go look Mr. Luttrell up, stare him in the eye and call him a fucking lying piece of shit? That should solve the issue, here. You too are making it too emotional. Realizing that what most likely took place is significantly different than the book and movie accounts does not make him "a fucking lying piece of shit". It is entirely understandable to not want to speak ill of ones fallen teammates. Any objective discussion of what happened would likely be seen as grandstanding and slandering the dead. Likewise, the narrative that was put forth by the Navy in Murphy's MOH citation would be impeached. He is not going to do that. Not only is Luttrell in the unenviable position of having survivor's guilt but has the pressure to maintain a narrative that is largely not his own. Face it,nobody wants to hear the brass tacks of what happened: a patrol of SEALs was drawn into an ambush by a squad sized element of well prepared,well motivated and well equipped bad guys. There were most likely no ACM casualties during the action. That says absolutely nothing bad about the valor and sacrifice of the SEALs but unfortunately,mistruths tend to compound. Allowing the showing of a defeat of America's best,with footage of fallen Americans and their gear displayed all across the Muslim world without response would mean embarrassment for the US and a morale boost and recruiting tool for jihadists. Likewise, it would be demoralizing for Americans.When bad events happen,there is a desire to alter the story to reflect more positively: witness the official version of what happened to Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman vs what is now known. I think Luttrell is unfortunately in somewhat of the same boat,in being made a hero in an overall tale that he didn't script and is more than just about him. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:32:21 AM EDT
[#33]
It wont matter. Alot of people will see the words "Based on a true story" at the beginning of the film and take every bit of it for gospel. Even if there is plenty of actual military documentation that is publicly available that tells the story how it ACTUALLY happened.
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:32:22 AM EDT
[#34]
So by that you have no problem saying Marcus Luttrell is a liar? Right?
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:32:26 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From the book: "and the heavy, powerful 300 Win Mag bolt-action .308 caliber rifle"
Also the reference of 223.5.56mm caliber and gauge. Does not sound like words from a SEAL or any military type. Pretty sure I load .308 caliber bullets when making 300 Win Mag loads. (it's what it says on the box...  )
The writer took what was said in the interview, and doing what some authors do, expanded on the fact it was a 300 Win Mag and added descriptive text. I have seen this kind of stuff in a number of books. It's done for the folks that don't have a background in weapons or military concepts. really nothing worth nit-picking over. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:33:43 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This should be fun. Yeah, if you mean fun by people getting butt hurt and still believing the movie or book are accurate portrayals of what actually happened.  |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:33:59 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I tend to believe the research in Victory Point. I think there are a lot of inaccuracies in Lone Survivor, and that they are largely based on it being ghost written to make it more of a thriller. I'm not sure it matters in the grand scheme of things. It was named operation Red Wings for a start, all those ops were named after sports teams, and there is no Dertoit Red Wing. Again, not sure it really matters. The plot points are the same, the details differ. Hockey is not a team sport? |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:34:06 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tell ya what, OP. Why don't you go look Mr. Luttrell up, stare him in the eye and call him a fucking lying piece of shit? That should solve the issue, here. id like to see that on video. 
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:34:32 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It wont matter. Alot of people will see the words "Based on a true story" at the beginning of the film and take every bit of it for gospel. Even if there is plenty of actual military documentation that is publicly available that tells the story how is ACTUALLY happened. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:34:35 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty sure I load .308 caliber bullets when making 300 Win Mag loads. (it's what it says on the box... )The writer took what was said in the interview, and doing what some authors do, expanded on the fact it was a 300 Win Mag and added descriptive text. I have seen this kind of stuff in a number of books. It's done for the folks that don't have a background in weapons or military concepts. really nothing worth nit-picking over. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: From the book: "and the heavy, powerful 300 Win Mag bolt-action .308 caliber rifle" Also the reference of 223.5.56mm caliber and gauge. Does not sound like words from a SEAL or any military type. Pretty sure I load .308 caliber bullets when making 300 Win Mag loads. (it's what it says on the box... )The writer took what was said in the interview, and doing what some authors do, expanded on the fact it was a 300 Win Mag and added descriptive text. I have seen this kind of stuff in a number of books. It's done for the folks that don't have a background in weapons or military concepts. really nothing worth nit-picking over. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:35:01 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Insults are the last bastion of the intellectually defeated. If you have something to add to the discussion, feel free to do so. Other than that, it would be appreciated if we could not act like junior high students. Plus, we're not talking about comparing the film to reality. This thread is about comparing the BOOK to reality. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What's really going on? This has you wrapped a little to tight? OP, nobody cares. Well said. Insults are the last bastion of the intellectually defeated. If you have something to add to the discussion, feel free to do so. Other than that, it would be appreciated if we could not act like junior high students. Plus, we're not talking about comparing the film to reality. This thread is about comparing the BOOK to reality. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:35:50 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who said they were? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:And just how are any of those facts relevant to entertainment? Who said they were? You just did by listing them, making the statement that the book and movie (both of which Marcus was involved in) weren't fact they were fiction. For the most part everyone else posting in here knows that. It was a way for Marcus to get his story out to as many people out there, mostly to honor his fallen shipmates, without it being a list of facts. My question to you is why does it matter so much to you? |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:35:59 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You too are making it too emotional. Realizing that what most likely took place is significantly different than the book and movie accounts does not make him "a fucking lying piece of shit". It is entirely understandable to not want to speak ill of ones fallen teammates. Any objective discussion of what happened would likely be seen as grandstanding and slandering the dead. Likewise, the narrative that was put forth by the Navy in Murphy's MOH citation would be impeached. He is not going to do that. Not only is Luttrell in the unenviable position of having survivor's guilt but has the pressure to maintain a narrative that is largely not his own. Face it,nobody wants to hear the brass tacks of what happened: a patrol of SEALs was drawn into an ambush by a squad sized element of well prepared,well motivated and well equipped bad guys. There were most likely no ACM casualties during the action. That says absolutely nothing bad about the valor and sacrifice of the SEALs but unfortunately,mistruths tend to compound. Allowing the showing of a defeat of America's best,with footage of fallen Americans and their gear displayed all across the Muslim world without response would mean embarrassment for the US and a morale boost and recruiting tool for jihadists. Likewise, it would be demoralizing for Americans.When bad events happen,there is a desire to alter the story to reflect more positively: witness the official version of what happened to Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman vs what is now known. I think Luttrell is unfortunately in somewhat of the same boat,in being made a hero in an overall tale that he didn't script and is more than just about him. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Tell ya what, OP. Why don't you go look Mr. Luttrell up, stare him in the eye and call him a fucking lying piece of shit? That should solve the issue, here. You too are making it too emotional. Realizing that what most likely took place is significantly different than the book and movie accounts does not make him "a fucking lying piece of shit". It is entirely understandable to not want to speak ill of ones fallen teammates. Any objective discussion of what happened would likely be seen as grandstanding and slandering the dead. Likewise, the narrative that was put forth by the Navy in Murphy's MOH citation would be impeached. He is not going to do that. Not only is Luttrell in the unenviable position of having survivor's guilt but has the pressure to maintain a narrative that is largely not his own. Face it,nobody wants to hear the brass tacks of what happened: a patrol of SEALs was drawn into an ambush by a squad sized element of well prepared,well motivated and well equipped bad guys. There were most likely no ACM casualties during the action. That says absolutely nothing bad about the valor and sacrifice of the SEALs but unfortunately,mistruths tend to compound. Allowing the showing of a defeat of America's best,with footage of fallen Americans and their gear displayed all across the Muslim world without response would mean embarrassment for the US and a morale boost and recruiting tool for jihadists. Likewise, it would be demoralizing for Americans.When bad events happen,there is a desire to alter the story to reflect more positively: witness the official version of what happened to Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman vs what is now known. I think Luttrell is unfortunately in somewhat of the same boat,in being made a hero in an overall tale that he didn't script and is more than just about him. That's a perfectly worded way of summarizing things. Very good. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:42:07 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:You just did by listing them, making the statement that the book and movie (both of which Marcus was involved in) weren't fact they were fiction. For the most part everyone else posting in here knows that. It was a way for Marcus to get his story out to as many people out there, mostly to honor his fallen shipmates, without it being a list of facts.
My question to you is why does it matter so much to you? I already answered that question. You might want to believe that "For the most part everyone else posting in here knows that.", but many of the vitriolic, nasty replies here belie your statement. People are going ape-shit in this thread towards me, as if speaking the truth on the topic is like crucifying Christ a 2nd time. And like I said before, after reading the 5+ page thread about the herders, it was clear to me that most people do believe that the book represents what actually happened. So, I started this thread. ETA; Of course a Hollywood movie is a dramatic account of the truth. The book being written, published and marketed as the truth is the real issue. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:43:18 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I already answered that question. You might want to believe that "For the most part everyone else posting in here knows that.", but many of the vitriolic, nasty replies here belie your statement. People are going ape-shit in this thread towards me, as if speaking the truth on the topic is like crucifying Christ a 2nd time. And like I said before, after reading the 5+ page thread about the herders, it was clear to me that most people do believe that the book represents what actually happened. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:You just did by listing them, making the statement that the book and movie (both of which Marcus was involved in) weren't fact they were fiction. For the most part everyone else posting in here knows that. It was a way for Marcus to get his story out to as many people out there, mostly to honor his fallen shipmates, without it being a list of facts.
My question to you is why does it matter so much to you? I already answered that question. You might want to believe that "For the most part everyone else posting in here knows that.", but many of the vitriolic, nasty replies here belie your statement. People are going ape-shit in this thread towards me, as if speaking the truth on the topic is like crucifying Christ a 2nd time. And like I said before, after reading the 5+ page thread about the herders, it was clear to me that most people do believe that the book represents what actually happened. Still, if people believe that, why does it matter so much to you? |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:43:55 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You sure have made it your personal crusade to make sure we all know about your opinion on the matter. No shit. Frankly I am sick of it. |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:44:45 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The truth? I like reality and the truth, and figure other people do too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So, why do you care so much? The truth? I like reality and the truth, and figure other people do too. Ohhh......so you were there. 
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:44:51 AM EDT
[#48]
To the OP
Were you there? |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:47:04 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To the OP Were you there? No, were you? |
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Posted: 1/7/2014 7:49:56 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From the book: "and the heavy, powerful 300 Win Mag bolt-action .308 caliber rifle"
Also the reference of 223.5.56mm caliber and gauge. Does not sound like words from a SEAL or any military type. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If I remember correctly, the official account of Operation Red Wing, and the account in the book "Lone Survivor" differ in the number of enemy that supposedly engaged them. I have read both, a long time ago, and I remember finding the editing in the book lacking in a few areas. The author got some basic military terminology wrong. I mean shit like "5.56 caliber" instead of 5.56mm; you know, basic day one private shit WRONG That, and the accounts of the fighting. Read the book sometime... it all came across as very Hollywood compared to every other first person account of combat that I've ever read, and anything that I have ever experienced myself. From the book: "and the heavy, powerful 300 Win Mag bolt-action .308 caliber rifle"
Also the reference of 223.5.56mm caliber and gauge. Does not sound like words from a SEAL or any military type. What caliber is a .300 winmag?
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