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corruptisima re publica plurimae leges
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:09:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2013 10:18:52 AM EST by rod727]
So I'm in the basement reloading some .45 rounds and I keep hearing water drip....WTF....found the source


A.O Smith heater Installed July 2007 and guess what.... the heater has a 6 year warranty......damn...that's ridiculous...
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:11:52 AM EST
They literally don't make appliances like they used to.

Time for a new one before it floods your house.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:13:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2013 10:16:12 AM EST by killuminati]
I have an instant on, gas water heater. Everyone should have one, will never use a tank water heater again.

ETA: Costs more to install due to double walled venting"b vent" required but pays for itself. saves me 30-40% over a tank.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:16:55 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By killuminati:
I have an instant on, gas water heater. Everyone should have one, will never use a tank water heater again.
View Quote


I'm getting an on demand water heater as soon as my current tanks goes tits up.

I have very little hot water demand, and yet it's heated 24 hrs a day for me.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:18:00 AM EST
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Originally Posted By ISED8U:
They literally don't make appliances like they used to.

Time for a new one before it floods your house.
View Quote


Thank God for the pan with PVC running to floor drain..
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:18:02 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By killuminati:
I have an instant on, gas water heater. Everyone should have one, will never use a tank water heater again.

ETA: Costs more to install due to double walled venting"b vent" required but pays for itself. saves me 30-40% over a tank.
View Quote


You're assuming everyone has natural gas lines, which are not a rural option.

I have a domestic hot water tank as part of the oil-fired system. It does fine.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:20:03 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By killuminati:
I have an instant on, gas water heater. Everyone should have one, will never use a tank water heater again.

ETA: Costs more to install due to double walled venting"b vent" required but pays for itself. saves me 30-40% over a tank.
View Quote


Yep, bought a propane one on Amazon and I love it. Cost less than $300..

http://www.amazon.com/Eccotemp-FVI-12-LP-Capacity-Propane-Tankless/dp/B002Y0K6AI/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1384719570&sr=8-3&keywords=eco+temp

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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:29:43 AM EST
Do you have a softener?
...another place, where the faces are so cold
I'd drive all night just to get back home
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:35:21 AM EST
yeah you can actually see it in the picture at about 1 o'clock....
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:35:44 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By killuminati:
I have an instant on, gas water heater. Everyone should have one, will never use a tank water heater again.

ETA: Costs more to install due to double walled venting"b vent" required but pays for itself. saves me 30-40% over a tank.
View Quote


Heat loss from a tank vs cost, maintenance and life span of a tankless

The tank water heater is a better deal all around.

The other big factor in tankless heaters is the incoming water temp.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:37:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2013 10:40:53 AM EST by 69cutlass]
I had the same issue 3 weeks ago with a Ao smith water heater that was installed in march 2004 - lasted 9 yrs which I though was pretty short.

Eta. Rusted thru the bottom seeping water into the pan not a major leak but the potential was there.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:38:47 AM EST
Rod, where is the water coming from? Could the over pressure valve thingie (sorry for the technical term) need replacing?

Maybe it is a cheaply repaired problem.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:39:48 AM EST
Just replaced my LP fired tank, 1 yr out of warnty. Yep me and the wife, me less than a mo after roto cuff surgery.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:39:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2013 10:41:47 AM EST by killuminati]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kolat:


Heat loss from a tank vs cost, maintenance and life span of a tankless

The tank water heater is a better deal all around.

The other big factor in tankless heaters is the incoming water temp.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kolat:
Originally Posted By killuminati:
I have an instant on, gas water heater. Everyone should have one, will never use a tank water heater again.

ETA: Costs more to install due to double walled venting"b vent" required but pays for itself. saves me 30-40% over a tank.


Heat loss from a tank vs cost, maintenance and life span of a tankless

The tank water heater is a better deal all around.

The other big factor in tankless heaters is the incoming water temp.


Tankless cost the same as tank.

What maintenance, tankless has no maintenance.

Save 30-40% on gas bill vs tank.

Incoming water temp does not matter.

You lose, please try again later.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:44:48 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rod727:
yeah you can actually see it in the picture at about 1 o'clock....
View Quote
Softeners tend to cause WH tanks to corrode out sooner due to the salt in the water.

For max WH life check and replace the sacrificial anode periodically
...another place, where the faces are so cold
I'd drive all night just to get back home
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:45:04 AM EST
I have a propane tank here at the house. Piping the gas to the tankless would be easy but tell me more about the exhaust.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:45:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2013 10:47:02 AM EST by GlutealCleft]
Step 1: Make sure that your pressure regulator (if you have one) is functioning correctly.
Step 2: Install an expansion tank near your new heater.
Step 3: Drain the sediment from your tank occasionally.


Do those, and your water heater's life will likely double. Change the sacrificial anode when appropriate, and it may triple.

BTW, installing a new water heater is pretty easy. And trust me, the plumber has been making a LOT of money on installing them for you...
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:48:56 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AmericanPeople:
Rod, where is the water coming from? Could the over pressure valve thingie (sorry for the technical term) need replacing?

Maybe it is a cheaply repaired problem.
View Quote


its hard to tell its somewhere near the base of the heater...I thought originally it was on the bottom side of the heater but I cant tell
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:58:52 AM EST
I am thinking I need to change mine soon someone wrote the install date on one of mine it says 12-28-84, maybe time for a little preventive maintinence.

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Posted: 11/17/2013 11:02:54 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By killuminati:


Tankless cost the same as tank.

What maintenance, tankless has no maintenance.

Save 30-40% on gas bill vs tank.

Incoming water temp does not matter.

You lose, please try again later.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By killuminati:
Originally Posted By Kolat:
Originally Posted By killuminati:
I have an instant on, gas water heater. Everyone should have one, will never use a tank water heater again.

ETA: Costs more to install due to double walled venting"b vent" required but pays for itself. saves me 30-40% over a tank.


Heat loss from a tank vs cost, maintenance and life span of a tankless

The tank water heater is a better deal all around.

The other big factor in tankless heaters is the incoming water temp.


Tankless cost the same as tank.

What maintenance, tankless has no maintenance.

Save 30-40% on gas bill vs tank.

Incoming water temp does not matter.

You lose, please try again later.


No, you lose. In the end, it's pretty much a wash. New tank water heaters are insulated quite well.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 11:05:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2013 11:10:17 AM EST by fxntime]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rod727:


its hard to tell its somewhere near the base of the heater...I thought originally it was on the bottom side of the heater but I cant tell
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rod727:
Originally Posted By AmericanPeople:
Rod, where is the water coming from? Could the over pressure valve thingie (sorry for the technical term) need replacing?

Maybe it is a cheaply repaired problem.


its hard to tell its somewhere near the base of the heater...I thought originally it was on the bottom side of the heater but I cant tell

Check the temp and pressure valve, it's a quick easy part to replace. Shut off the water to tank, make sure pressure is relieved [turn on a hot faucet for a couple secs] do a water lock and have it replaced in a couple minutes. Don't even have to drain the tank.

OP's gas valve/thermostat is one expensive bitch, that goes tits up and I wouldn't waste my time replacing it on one older then a couple of years unless it's still under warranty.

AO Smith is crap anymore, it's staffed by incompetent boobs, the people who answer the phone for parts are mentally retarded, they can't even track what parts were used on their water heaters 1/2 the time and the part prices are idiotic. That thermostat usually fails due to the solenoid behind it but of course they won't sell that separately, they will only sell a complete one. [one or two screws and 30 seconds to replace the solenoid]
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Posted: 11/17/2013 11:06:02 AM EST
I need to redo the plumbing to my tank and have been thinking about going tankless. Does anyone know if using softened water will decrease the life of a tankless heater?
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Posted: 11/17/2013 11:11:55 AM EST
Mine keeps leaking out of the hose drain, can't seem to stop it.
I drained some water out of the tank a few weeks ago so I could blow out all the crap in the bottom of it.
Now the drain will just not seal, it drips tried to open and close it last week, no help.
I guess the cheap plastic valve is not going to seal.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 11:13:38 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dmfl54:
Mine keeps leaking out of the hose drain, can't seem to stop it.
I drained some water out of the tank a few weeks ago so I could blow out all the crap in the bottom of it.
Now the drain will just not seal, it drips tried to open and close it last week, no help.
I guess the cheap plastic valve is not going to seal.
View Quote


Just buy A hose cap with a rubber gasket for it, about a buck or so and all you need to do.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 11:17:42 AM EST
I swear they time it so they blow the week after the warranty expires. I've had two go like that.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 11:18:35 AM EST
How often do you drain it?

When was the last time you inspected the anode rod?

Do you have hard water? If yes does the water softener feed the water heater?
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Posted: 11/17/2013 11:27:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2013 11:27:55 AM EST by Desert_AIP]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dmfl54:
Mine keeps leaking out of the hose drain, can't seem to stop it.
I drained some water out of the tank a few weeks ago so I could blow out all the crap in the bottom of it.
Now the drain will just not seal, it drips tried to open and close it last week, no help.
I guess the cheap plastic valve is not going to seal.
View Quote


Probably has a piece of debris in the valve.

You can drain the tank and replace the crappy plastic valve with a metal ball valve that is less susceptible to clogging.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 11:28:34 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Bones45:
I swear they time it so they blow the week after the warranty expires. I've had two go like that.
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Most people do no maintenance to them, they set the warranty period accordingly.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 11:43:02 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kolat:


Heat loss from a tank vs cost, maintenance and life span of a tankless

The tank water heater is a better deal all around.

The other big factor in tankless heaters is the incoming water temp.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kolat:
Originally Posted By killuminati:
I have an instant on, gas water heater. Everyone should have one, will never use a tank water heater again.

ETA: Costs more to install due to double walled venting"b vent" required but pays for itself. saves me 30-40% over a tank.


Heat loss from a tank vs cost, maintenance and life span of a tankless

The tank water heater is a better deal all around.

The other big factor in tankless heaters is the incoming water temp.


That is about what I have heard from other ppl as well. I thought I really wanted a on-demand water heater until i did more research..

Our tank heater is from 2006 and it holds heat very well.. We can leave on friday for the weekend and i turn it off at the breaker, when we come home on sunday its still got plenty of hot water..

Brian
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Posted: 11/17/2013 12:11:24 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By killuminati:


Tankless cost the same as tank.

What maintenance, tankless has no maintenance.

Save 30-40% on gas bill vs tank.

Incoming water temp does not matter.

You lose, please try again later.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By killuminati:
Originally Posted By Kolat:
Originally Posted By killuminati:
I have an instant on, gas water heater. Everyone should have one, will never use a tank water heater again.

ETA: Costs more to install due to double walled venting"b vent" required but pays for itself. saves me 30-40% over a tank.


Heat loss from a tank vs cost, maintenance and life span of a tankless

The tank water heater is a better deal all around.

The other big factor in tankless heaters is the incoming water temp.


Tankless cost the same as tank.

What maintenance, tankless has no maintenance.

Save 30-40% on gas bill vs tank.

Incoming water temp does not matter.

You lose, please try again later.


I can install a tank water heater for at least half that of a decent tankless.

You are supposed to have the heat exchanger cleaned and flushed yearly otherwise buildup will occur causing hot spots on the heat exchanger and lowering the efficiency as well as lowering the life of it.

The savings is less than 15%

Incoming water temp does matter because the heat rise across the heat exchanger needs to be controlled thru flow metering meaning that a lot of tankless heaters get undersized and throttle the flow giving less hot water so that it can meet the outlet temp.



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Posted: 11/17/2013 12:15:50 PM EST
I know mine is on borrowed time. Original to the house, circa 1999.
No way tankless ever pays for it self, especially if like most people you need a bigger gas pipe run to it. Last quote I got was about 4000. That's 3000+ more than a new tank would cost. If I save $20 a month, it would take 12.5 years to break even.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 12:18:15 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
Softeners tend to cause WH tanks to corrode out sooner due to the salt in the water.

For max WH life check and replace the sacrificial anode periodically
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
Originally Posted By rod727:
yeah you can actually see it in the picture at about 1 o'clock....
Softeners tend to cause WH tanks to corrode out sooner due to the salt in the water.

For max WH life check and replace the sacrificial anode periodically


Expensive lesson I recently learned.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 12:31:57 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
Softeners tend to cause WH tanks to corrode out sooner due to the salt in the water.

For max WH life check and replace the sacrificial anode periodically
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Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
Originally Posted By rod727:
yeah you can actually see it in the picture at about 1 o'clock....
Softeners tend to cause WH tanks to corrode out sooner due to the salt in the water.

For max WH life check and replace the sacrificial anode periodically


Softeners don't add salt to the water.

The water is softened by running across resin beads. The salt is used to clean the minerals off those resin beads.

Softeners will actually prolong the life of a heater and keep its efficiency up.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 12:50:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2013 12:55:57 PM EST by AmericanPeople]
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Originally Posted By lineman68:
I am thinking I need to change mine soon someone wrote the install date on one of mine it says 12-28-84, maybe time for a little preventive maintinence.

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Sure, change the anode and drain it to remove any sediment. Make it last another thirteen months and that is THREE DECADES!


Rod, your first post said you found the source but I cannot find where you revealed the source.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 5:31:35 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Kolat:


Softeners don't add salt to the water.

The water is softened by running across resin beads. The salt is used to clean the minerals off those resin beads.

Softeners will actually prolong the life of a heater and keep its efficiency up.
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Originally Posted By Kolat:
Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
Originally Posted By rod727:
yeah you can actually see it in the picture at about 1 o'clock....
Softeners tend to cause WH tanks to corrode out sooner due to the salt in the water.

For max WH life check and replace the sacrificial anode periodically


Softeners don't add salt to the water.

The water is softened by running across resin beads. The salt is used to clean the minerals off those resin beads.

Softeners will actually prolong the life of a heater and keep its efficiency up.
Maybe a brand new softener doesn't add salt to the water the first time it is used.

During the softener's regeneration cycle, the minerals absorbed by the resin beads are released, and salt takes their place. The salt is released into the water during normal usage.

Basically, the resin beads will absorb either minerals or salt, releasing salt during normal use, and releasing minerals during regeneration.
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I'd drive all night just to get back home
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Posted: 11/17/2013 5:37:24 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
Maybe a brand new softener doesn't add salt to the water the first time it is used.

During the softener's regeneration cycle, the minerals absorbed by the resin beads are released, and salt takes their place. The salt is released into the water during normal usage.

Basically, the resin beads will absorb either minerals or salt, releasing salt during normal use, and releasing minerals during regeneration.
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Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
Originally Posted By Kolat:
Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
Originally Posted By rod727:
yeah you can actually see it in the picture at about 1 o'clock....
Softeners tend to cause WH tanks to corrode out sooner due to the salt in the water.

For max WH life check and replace the sacrificial anode periodically


Softeners don't add salt to the water.

The water is softened by running across resin beads. The salt is used to clean the minerals off those resin beads.

Softeners will actually prolong the life of a heater and keep its efficiency up.
Maybe a brand new softener doesn't add salt to the water the first time it is used.

During the softener's regeneration cycle, the minerals absorbed by the resin beads are released, and salt takes their place. The salt is released into the water during normal usage.

Basically, the resin beads will absorb either minerals or salt, releasing salt during normal use, and releasing minerals during regeneration.


The salt is flushed from the resin bed after it has stripped the minerals off the beads. The beads do not absorb anything, the rust and minerals collect on the surface of them.

There is very little salt that remains once the resin bed is flushed.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 5:55:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2013 5:57:10 PM EST by Barrelburner]
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Originally Posted By fxntime:


The salt is flushed from the resin bed after it has stripped the minerals off the beads. The beads do not absorb anything, the rust and minerals collect on the surface of them.

There is very little salt that remains once the resin bed is flushed.
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Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
Originally Posted By Kolat:
Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
Softeners tend to cause WH tanks to corrode out sooner due to the salt in the water.

For max WH life check and replace the sacrificial anode periodically


Softeners don't add salt to the water.

The water is softened by running across resin beads. The salt is used to clean the minerals off those resin beads.

Softeners will actually prolong the life of a heater and keep its efficiency up.
Maybe a brand new softener doesn't add salt to the water the first time it is used.

During the softener's regeneration cycle, the minerals absorbed by the resin beads are released, and salt takes their place. The salt is released into the water during normal usage.

Basically, the resin beads will absorb either minerals or salt, releasing salt during normal use, and releasing minerals during regeneration.


The salt is flushed from the resin bed after it has stripped the minerals off the beads. The beads do not absorb anything, the rust and minerals collect on the surface of them.

There is very little salt that remains once the resin bed is flushed.
Is this information wrong then?

Conventional water-softening appliances intended for household use depend on an ion-exchange resin in which "hardness ions" - mainly Ca2+ and Mg2+ - are exchanged for sodium ions. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_softening#cite_note-CMHC-4][4][/url] As described by NSF/ANSI Standard 44,[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_softening#cite_note-nsf-5][5][/url] ion exchange devices reduce the hardness by replacing magnesium and calcium (Mg2+ and Ca2+) with sodium or potassium ions (Na+ and K+)."

... the increase in sodium levels (for systems releasing sodium) in the water can be significant, especially when treating very hard water


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_softening
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I'd drive all night just to get back home
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Posted: 11/17/2013 5:57:10 PM EST
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Posted: 11/17/2013 6:00:57 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Desert_AIP:


Most people do no maintenance to them, they set the warranty period accordingly.
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Originally Posted By Desert_AIP:
Originally Posted By Bones45:
I swear they time it so they blow the week after the warranty expires. I've had two go like that.


Most people do no maintenance to them, they set the warranty period accordingly.
What is entailed in proper maintenance of a water heater?
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Posted: 11/17/2013 6:03:28 PM EST
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Originally Posted By PatriotAr15:
What is entailed in proper maintenance of a water heater?
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Originally Posted By PatriotAr15:
Originally Posted By Desert_AIP:
Originally Posted By Bones45:
I swear they time it so they blow the week after the warranty expires. I've had two go like that.


Most people do no maintenance to them, they set the warranty period accordingly.
What is entailed in proper maintenance of a water heater?
Flush sediment out
Check/replace the sacrificial anode
...another place, where the faces are so cold
I'd drive all night just to get back home
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Posted: 11/17/2013 6:03:32 PM EST
Speaking of water heaters...

I need a decent electric one to replace the one I have...it's 12 years old and needs to be replaced soon...

What's a decent brand to look for?



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Posted: 11/17/2013 6:05:35 PM EST
My first electric water heater lasted about 24-25 years. I never changed the anode.

I am on my second water heater and will do a much better job of keeping it clean and replacing the anode.

About two months ago I changed to an AL-Zinc anode well before a replacement was needed. The change was made to hopefully reduce the rotten egg smell likely due to my well water. So far it appears to be working.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 6:07:04 PM EST
GE's at Home Depot are made by Rheem and Rheem is just fine
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Posted: 11/17/2013 6:07:16 PM EST
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Originally Posted By PatriotAr15:
What is entailed in proper maintenance of a water heater?
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You can google it and find plenty of info but the answer has already been given.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 6:09:09 PM EST
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Originally Posted By AmericanPeople:


Sure, change the anode and drain it to remove any sediment. Make it last another thirteen months and that is THREE DECADES!


Rod, your first post said you found the source but I cannot find where you revealed the source.
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Originally Posted By AmericanPeople:
Originally Posted By lineman68:
I am thinking I need to change mine soon someone wrote the install date on one of mine it says 12-28-84, maybe time for a little preventive maintinence.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Sure, change the anode and drain it to remove any sediment. Make it last another thirteen months and that is THREE DECADES!


Rod, your first post said you found the source but I cannot find where you revealed the source.


While talking to a local plumber he said a few years ago he replaced a water heater that had been in use for 48 years!! The next oldest was 26 years which is still crazy. Ours was 18 years old I believe when it started to leak. Unfortunately I don't have room where it is located to put a drainage pan
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Posted: 11/17/2013 6:15:20 PM EST
Draining info

More maintenance help

More info
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Posted: 11/17/2013 6:17:22 PM EST
Be glad yours was in the drip pan. Mine shit the bed and wasn't in a drip pan.. flooded the shit out of my downstairs part of the house. I'm just glad I haven't put down the wood floor yet.. so it was just concrete. Definitely put the new water heater in a drip pan with a drain hose.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 6:26:55 PM EST
At least look up top for a pipe leak running down through the insulation. I've seen some of those....
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Posted: 11/17/2013 11:55:39 PM EST
I love our Takagi tankless water heater.
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Posted: 11/18/2013 12:19:29 AM EST
You got one of them hot water heaters. What you need is a cold water heater. Thats whats up George.
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Posted: 11/18/2013 12:26:04 AM EST
First world problems.

I like my tankless water heater. Not a cheap investment, but it pays for itself eventually.
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