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Posted: 10/21/2013 7:48:05 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 10/21/2013 7:48:42 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 10/21/2013 7:50:37 AM EDT
[#3]
A President worth having would have said "Nope, military ammunition is vital to national security and EPA has no say over it", and then had the EPA bureaucrat responsible tried for treason. We could dream...
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Posted: 10/21/2013 7:53:35 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A President worth having would have said "Nope, military ammunition is vital to national security and EPA has no say over it", and then had the EPA bureaucrat responsible tried for treason. We could dream... Reagan would have ordered the head of the EPA to be dumped into a vat of molten lead for this. 
Putin would have dumped the guy into the lead himself. 
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Posted: 10/21/2013 7:54:43 AM EDT
[#5]
great... now we're gonna get stuck with shitty imported lead.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 7:56:00 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/10/foghorn/obamas-new-epa-regulations-force-last-lead-smelter-usa-close/"this was the final lead production facility in the United States. Its location was one of the prime reasons that the Lake City arsenal and other ammunition manufacturers have established themselves nearby" That doesn't sound good at all for ammo pricing and availability. Why not? Military ammo is now LEAD FREE - at least in 556. Yes - the ammunition contract price will go up, but heck: ITS FREE! Those taxpayers pay for high $$ Green .mil ammo - so who cares?? 
(ooops - you wer talking about civilians - you know - the people with a RIGHT to own a firearm??). In other news: our brass supply from .mil is now being destroyed with the use of a device called a "popper" - yeah you can still buy it. It just will not be useable.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 7:56:24 AM EDT
[#7]
Sounds like utter bullshit to me.
I work for a battery mfg here in PA. Our lead smelter runs 24/7 and rarely shuts down. I'm told it generates $1m/day worth of lead for our battery production. Some of the lead ingots are the size of a dishwasher. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 7:56:46 AM EDT
[#8]
So now the USA will depend entirely on imported lead for its electronics and ammunition for military/leo/private use? This has gotta be the stupidest thing I've read in a while.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 7:56:54 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
great... now we're gonna get stuck with shitty imported lead. Who has the power to ban imported things?? Especially materials the EPA deems "hazardous" ??? |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 7:57:08 AM EDT
[#10]
There are at least a couple of battery manufacturers still producing product in the USA.
Where are they getting their lead from? Mexico, maybe? ETA: Looks like Dragracer_Art answered my question: Apparently, the article is bullshit. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 7:57:16 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
great... now we're gonna get stuck with shitty imported lead. Most of this administration should be tried for treason, the primary defendants being Barry O and Eric "Gun Dealer" Holder. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 7:58:01 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like utter bullshit to me. I work for a battery mfg here in PA. Our lead smelter runs 24/7 and rarely shuts down. I'm told it generates $1m/day worth of lead for our battery production. How much lead ore do you process? None? You guys are a lead recycler. Nothing like the operation near Lake City. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 7:59:36 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much lead ore do you process? None? You guys are a lead recycler. Nothing like the operation near Lake City. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sounds like utter bullshit to me. I work for a battery mfg here in PA. Our lead smelter runs 24/7 and rarely shuts down. I'm told it generates $1m/day worth of lead for our battery production. How much lead ore do you process? None? You guys are a lead recycler. Nothing like the operation near Lake City. Bullshit. The smelter does it all. We have RR cars bringing in raw materials. 
I'm willing to wager that we produce more lead in one day than Lake City does in a month. The smelter supports battery production across a 300+ acre facility. All the property in the lower RH corner of this pic has since been built into more buildings. Building A4 and the new Oxide2 plant with direct rail capability. 
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Posted: 10/21/2013 8:00:15 AM EDT
[#14]
Destroy manufacturing.
Destroy refining. Destroy mining. Destroy energy. I had hoped we'd at least have our tech sector, but the NSA scandal is destroying that now. One day, every American who actually works will work at Starbucks. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 8:00:55 AM EDT
[#15]
It's all part of ZEROs plan.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 8:04:25 AM EDT
[#16]
Lead not being produced is a good thing. There are plenty of non-toxic alternatives.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 8:07:14 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lead not being produced is a good thing. There are plenty of non-toxic alternatives. 
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Posted: 10/21/2013 8:08:05 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lead not being produced is a good thing. There are plenty of non-toxic alternatives. Like lead-free solder which is plagued by problems and greatly reduces the reliability of electronics? Like lead-free bullets which cost about 3-4x more than lead? |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 8:08:20 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lead not being produced is a good thing. There are plenty of non-toxic alternatives. Thanks for once again validating Arfcom's rule of '13ers.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 8:12:10 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lead not being produced is a good thing. There are plenty of non-toxic alternatives. See sigline. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 8:14:52 AM EDT
[#21]
Aricle is bullshit just for the simple matter of geography. The Lake City ammo plant is in Independence, MO, near Kansas City.
The Doe Run smelting works is in Herculaneum, MO which is south of St. Louis. Google maps puts the two at 257.1 miles apart, or 3 hours and 49 minutes. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 8:14:53 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bullshit. The smelter does it all. We have RR cars bringing in raw materials.
I'm willing to wager that we produce more lead in one day than Lake City does in a month. The smelter supports battery production across a 300+ acre facility. All the property in the lower RH corner of this pic has since been built into more buildings. Building A4 and the new Oxide2 plant with direct rail capability. http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7202/6907537457_f6fde395ba.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Sounds like utter bullshit to me. I work for a battery mfg here in PA. Our lead smelter runs 24/7 and rarely shuts down. I'm told it generates $1m/day worth of lead for our battery production. How much lead ore do you process? None? You guys are a lead recycler. Nothing like the operation near Lake City. Bullshit. The smelter does it all. We have RR cars bringing in raw materials.
I'm willing to wager that we produce more lead in one day than Lake City does in a month. The smelter supports battery production across a 300+ acre facility. All the property in the lower RH corner of this pic has since been built into more buildings. Building A4 and the new Oxide2 plant with direct rail capability. http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7202/6907537457_f6fde395ba.jpg Your first reply mentions: "lead ingots are the size of a dishwasher" Your second reply mentions "raw materials." Niether mentions "lead ore." Where exactly are you obtaining those giant lead ingots? What are "raw materials" ??? - recycled battery cores? |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 8:20:08 AM EDT
[#23]
The posted article quotes a different source - here is the original source:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/10/20/remaining-lead-smelter-usa-closing/ It clarifies that U.S.-mined lead ore may still be extracted, but it will be sent outside the U.S.A. for smelting and hopefully some will come back (albeit at a higher price): "“The last remaining lead smelter, in Herculaneum MO, is closing down. This will undoubtedly affect the price of lead, since the lead that is mined in Viburnum MO will now be sent out of the US for smelting. . . ." As is the current M.O. - lead smelting has not really been "banned" - it has simply been made too expensive (there are several other instances of this tactic being used). |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 8:20:58 AM EDT
[#24]
That's why we have NAFTA
Batteries, lead, glass, etc. we will pollute the shit out of their country, pay them nothing, import it to the US for free and charge the same amount. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 8:23:07 AM EDT
[#25]
Not all rectangles are squares, but by definition all squares are rectangles.
All lead ore is raw materials. But not all raw materials are lead ore. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 8:28:57 AM EDT
[#26]
Reminds me a lot of the smaller coal fired power houses around here. It wasn't cost effective to add scrubbers to them so Ameren or Dynegy just decided to close them down.
Of course, that makes natural gas turbines for electrical generation more appealing/lucrative. Which reminds me, that T. Boone Picketts basically dropped off the radar after the elections. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 8:29:58 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lead not being produced is a good thing. There are plenty of non-toxic alternatives. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 8:30:22 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like utter bullshit to me. I work for a battery mfg here in PA. Our lead smelter runs 24/7 and rarely shuts down. I'm told it generates $1m/day worth of lead for our battery production. Some of the lead ingots are the size of a dishwasher. You wouldnt happen to be in east penn working for deka batteries would you? |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 8:32:14 AM EDT
[#29]
Incremental disarmament's next phase...
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Posted: 10/21/2013 8:34:39 AM EDT
[#30]
In before all our military ammo gets made in china.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 8:54:16 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You wouldnt happen to be in east penn working for deka batteries would you? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sounds like utter bullshit to me. I work for a battery mfg here in PA. Our lead smelter runs 24/7 and rarely shuts down. I'm told it generates $1m/day worth of lead for our battery production. Some of the lead ingots are the size of a dishwasher. You wouldnt happen to be in east penn working for deka batteries would you? My bet is exide |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 9:01:17 AM EDT
[#32]
I work for East Penn (not in the Smelter but I'm pretty familiar with the process) and while we primarily recycle lead from scrap batteries, I'm sure the facility is more than capable of refining/smelting lead ore if the supply of new lead became a major issue. It's just a lot easier/cheaper for us to purchase scrap batteries for lead recycling than refining ore.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 9:02:03 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like utter bullshit to me. I work for a battery mfg here in PA. Our lead smelter runs 24/7 and rarely shuts down. I'm told it generates $1m/day worth of lead for our battery production. Some of the lead ingots are the size of a dishwasher. can i have a dishwasher sized ingot.. Please!
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Posted: 10/21/2013 9:12:26 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lead not being produced is a good thing. There are plenty of non-toxic alternatives. No, there are a number of applications for which there is no substitute for lead, and many more where only poor substitutes exist. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 9:13:49 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
can i have a dishwasher sized ingot.. Please! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sounds like utter bullshit to me. I work for a battery mfg here in PA. Our lead smelter runs 24/7 and rarely shuts down. I'm told it generates $1m/day worth of lead for our battery production. Some of the lead ingots are the size of a dishwasher. can i have a dishwasher sized ingot.. Please! Free, pick up only. 
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Posted: 10/21/2013 9:18:12 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Free, pick up only. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Sounds like utter bullshit to me. I work for a battery mfg here in PA. Our lead smelter runs 24/7 and rarely shuts down. I'm told it generates $1m/day worth of lead for our battery production. Some of the lead ingots are the size of a dishwasher. can i have a dishwasher sized ingot.. Please! Free, pick up only. Must self load
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Posted: 10/21/2013 9:18:26 AM EDT
[#37]
my wife siad thay would start with .22 and move to the next most popular
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Posted: 10/21/2013 9:19:21 AM EDT
[#38]
There are MANY battery /scrap recycling smelters in operation, this isn't the question. But the one smelter refining raw lead ore into metallic lead IS under threat from the EPA. Most lead ore is lead sulfide, when it is roasted to make lead, it has considerable emissions of both sulfur and its oxides plus lead dust. It doesn't take much lead pm to shut it down by the EPA's rules. When it processes many tons per day, it takes a very tight ship to prevent measurable emissions. Plus this is the "lead belt" so lead dust is everywhere.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 9:19:26 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like utter bullshit to me. I work for a battery mfg here in PA. Our lead smelter runs 24/7 and rarely shuts down. I'm told it generates $1m/day worth of lead for our battery production. Some of the lead ingots are the size of a dishwasher. 
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Posted: 10/21/2013 9:21:24 AM EDT
[#40]
Sounds like ammunition manufacturers need to start talking to battery manufacturers.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 9:23:39 AM EDT
[#41]
I'm surprised that the DOD doesn't have something to say about the shuttering of the last domestic source of a strategic metal.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 9:25:44 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like ammunition manufacturers need to start talking to battery manufacturers. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 9:32:48 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A President worth having would have said "Nope, military ammunition is vital to national security and EPA has no say over it", and then had the EPA bureaucrat responsible tried for treason. We could dream... Elect me. I wouldn't even have a trial for the traitors. "Aufhängen, neu wählen" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8vDQaAYaQg&feature=player_detailpage#t=134 |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 9:34:39 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lead not being produced is a good thing. There are plenty of non-toxic alternatives. and for a little while there I was starting to believe that 13ers weren't total retards.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 9:37:31 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Must self load Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Sounds like utter bullshit to me. I work for a battery mfg here in PA. Our lead smelter runs 24/7 and rarely shuts down. I'm told it generates $1m/day worth of lead for our battery production. Some of the lead ingots are the size of a dishwasher. can i have a dishwasher sized ingot.. Please! Free, pick up only. Must self load ...and the only vehicle allowed is a unicycle. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 9:45:01 AM EDT
[#46]
i hate to be "that guy", but...
The amended rules for lead were done under Bush in 2008 And the Clean Air Act was first signed into law by President Johnson. However it was amended to add more restrictions 3 times since. In 1970 by Nixon. In 1977 by Carter In 1990 by Bush Sr. It's important for you all to realize that we got fucked by lots of different people of both parties. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 9:49:10 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...and the only vehicle allowed is a unicycle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Sounds like utter bullshit to me. I work for a battery mfg here in PA. Our lead smelter runs 24/7 and rarely shuts down. I'm told it generates $1m/day worth of lead for our battery production. Some of the lead ingots are the size of a dishwasher. can i have a dishwasher sized ingot.. Please! Free, pick up only. Must self load ...and the only vehicle allowed is a unicycle. With only one pedal. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 10:07:09 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lead not being produced is a good thing. There are plenty of non-toxic alternatives. Yea? I bet you're also anit-drilling/anti-Oil right? What's a non-toxic material to replace the plastic you're typing on? |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 10:12:58 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i hate to be "that guy", but... The amended rules for lead were done under Bush in 2008 And the Clean Air Act was first signed into law by President Johnson. However it was amended to add more restrictions 3 times since. In 1970 by Nixon. In 1977 by Carter In 1990 by Bush Sr. It's important for you all to realize that we got fucked by lots of different people of both parties. This, and Doe Run had serious issues. Kids in the town had blood lead levels higher than kids of the same age and demographic 100 miles away. You could detect lead on surfaces in the town...as in kids couldn't play in the streets because there was lead dust and other contaminants on the surfaces of pretty much everything outdoors. When it rained, the runoff was contaminated...badly which tells you something about what all was going into the air. It sucks, but that place was dirty. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 10:13:12 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lead not being produced is a good thing. There are plenty of non-toxic alternatives. Think before you post. |
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