User Panel
|
Theyre called seat covers. Theres no such thing as an ass gasket.
|
|
|
|
here is the update I put in the OP
From the standpoint of an AD or ND....I can see the case for both, but I absolutely agree that leaving it in the holster when I take a dump would have prevented this whole thing from happening. It was a freak one in a million accident, but I agree that I was negligent for taking it out of the holster, even though I thought I had good reason to and thought it was "safe". From now on I will find a new way to take care of business, and I think I am going to get a new carry gun, maybe an M&P shield, a single stack nine since I do love that slim profile. Anyway, hopefully this will help someone out and we can all learn something from this, I know I have. |
|
Quoted:
Sure thing. Just like it's the glock's fault when people shoot themselves. Well documented. 1911, when in spec, takes a minimum of 4 feet, perpendicular to the muzzle for an inertial firing. IIRC US Army was 6 feet minimum test. Without examining the pistol, no one can say for certain the exact cause. If you do, you're assuming or just full of shit. High end guns tend to have very small engagement surfaces for the sear/hammer. It's just as possible that a worn part, there, could have been responsible. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quite frankly if you don't know the how and why of such a negligent discharge occurred, you don't have any business carrying a 1911. You're damn lucky you didn't kill someone. I really hate this kind of bullshit in GD. I can BUILD A FUCKING 1911 FROM BLANK STEEL and I can't say for sure why the gun malfunctioned. Then you don't know how they work. The gun malfunctioned because it was dropped on the muzzle on a hard surface, which caused enough momentum for the firing pin to overcome the firing pin spring, which then struck the primer of the loaded round, which then fired. This is a well documented issue with 1911's that has been known for years. Please, stop building 1911's as you clearly don't know what you are doing if you don't know what caused this ND. Sure thing. Just like it's the glock's fault when people shoot themselves. Well documented. 1911, when in spec, takes a minimum of 4 feet, perpendicular to the muzzle for an inertial firing. IIRC US Army was 6 feet minimum test. Without examining the pistol, no one can say for certain the exact cause. If you do, you're assuming or just full of shit. High end guns tend to have very small engagement surfaces for the sear/hammer. It's just as possible that a worn part, there, could have been responsible. If by some chance the safety was not properly fitted and allowed the sear to disengage from the hammer when the gun hit the floor, the 1/2 cock notch would catch the hammer. |
|
I was taught to never remove my firearm from its holster unless you intend to shoot it or unload it. I teach ccw classes and that is still my advice to folks. Leave your guns alone while you are carrying them unless you need to shoot or unload it at the end of the day.
Seems to me most discharges occur when the gun is being taken out of a holster or being put into a holster. |
|
I will side with you OP. A quality gun should NOT FUCKING FIRE IF DROPPED FROM A FEW FEET.
I would ditch that 1911 ASAP. |
|
|
Quoted:
If by some chance the safety was not properly fitted and allowed the sear to disengage from the hammer when the gun hit the floor, the 1/2 cock notch would catch the hammer. View Quote Yes, in theory. Some of the fancy hammers don't have a half cock notch. I think that came about cause guys would adjust the overtravel stop so close that the half cock notch would damage the nose of the sear. Also, if you're sear spring is too light ( in search of the 1.5# trigger pull) Half cock won't catch. Then, there's the funnest situation of all, (not that it happened in the OP) the nose of the sear breaks off and lodges in the half cock notch causing the gun to dump the magazine....really fast. (All 7 rounds from a commander impacted the IPSC target, during an indoor match.) That was the last time I shot a used gun before I tore it down completely for inspection and measuring. |
|
Quoted:
here is the update I put in the OP From the standpoint of an AD or ND....I can see the case for both, but I absolutely agree that leaving it in the holster when I take a dump would have prevented this whole thing from happening. It was a freak one in a million accident, but I agree that I was negligent for taking it out of the holster, even though I thought I had good reason to and thought it was "safe". From now on I will find a new way to take care of business, and I think I am going to get a new carry gun, maybe an M&P shield, a single stack nine since I do love that slim profile. Anyway, hopefully this will help someone out and we can all learn something from this, I know I have. View Quote I do want to personally thank you for having the courage to post this thread. I think you have directly impacted several members who carry a 1911 and did not know about the possible safety issues with series 70 pistols. so thanks again OP I and I am glad you are OK. |
|
|
Quoted:
I do want to personally thank you for having the courage to post this thread. I think you have directly impacted several members who carry a 1911 and did not know about the possible safety issues with series 70 pistols. so thanks again OP I and I am glad you are OK. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
here is the update I put in the OP From the standpoint of an AD or ND....I can see the case for both, but I absolutely agree that leaving it in the holster when I take a dump would have prevented this whole thing from happening. It was a freak one in a million accident, but I agree that I was negligent for taking it out of the holster, even though I thought I had good reason to and thought it was "safe". From now on I will find a new way to take care of business, and I think I am going to get a new carry gun, maybe an M&P shield, a single stack nine since I do love that slim profile. Anyway, hopefully this will help someone out and we can all learn something from this, I know I have. I do want to personally thank you for having the courage to post this thread. I think you have directly impacted several members who carry a 1911 and did not know about the possible safety issues with series 70 pistols. so thanks again OP I and I am glad you are OK. I'll second this. |
|
Quoted:
the safety was not popped out, it just ran it right over View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That safety looks like it is popped out of the frame (and for that reason not engaged). Is that the case? This the safety was not popped out, it just ran it right over I dont understand, the safety is engaged yet the slide is back and I dont see any damage to the slide or safety. How is that possible? Due to this thread I will never own a series 70. |
|
Did the ND help with your BM? I imagine it having a powerful laxative effect.
|
|
|
|
Not to flame or anything, but you want to replace your 1911 with a different gun because you did something unsafe with the gun, it discharged and it's the gun's fault?
EDIT- Though I do agree, dropping a gun from a few feet should not have made it go off. |
|
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Since we're all pulling a Ralphie Wiggams and learnding here, anyone know whether my Kimber Desert Warrior has this magical firing pin safety? Not that I'd ever consider CCW with it, it's too big, too heavy, and too expensive. http://www.sightm1911.com/images/Kimber_Desert_Warrior_450.jpg http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130520182619/simpsons/images/d/d5/Ralph_wiggum-with-gun.gif No it doesn't. Unless it's an early model it's got a FPS. |
|
Quoted:
I do want to personally thank you for having the courage to post this thread. I think you have directly impacted several members who carry a 1911 and did not know about the possible safety issues with series 70 pistols. so thanks again OP I and I am glad you are OK. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
here is the update I put in the OP From the standpoint of an AD or ND....I can see the case for both, but I absolutely agree that leaving it in the holster when I take a dump would have prevented this whole thing from happening. It was a freak one in a million accident, but I agree that I was negligent for taking it out of the holster, even though I thought I had good reason to and thought it was "safe". From now on I will find a new way to take care of business, and I think I am going to get a new carry gun, maybe an M&P shield, a single stack nine since I do love that slim profile. Anyway, hopefully this will help someone out and we can all learn something from this, I know I have. I do want to personally thank you for having the courage to post this thread. I think you have directly impacted several members who carry a 1911 and did not know about the possible safety issues with series 70 pistols. so thanks again OP I and I am glad you are OK. thank you...NEVER thought this would happen to me. |
|
Quoted:
I do want to personally thank you for having the courage to post this thread. I think you have directly impacted several members who carry a 1911 and did not know about the possible safety issues with series 70 pistols. so thanks again OP I and I am glad you are OK. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
here is the update I put in the OP From the standpoint of an AD or ND....I can see the case for both, but I absolutely agree that leaving it in the holster when I take a dump would have prevented this whole thing from happening. It was a freak one in a million accident, but I agree that I was negligent for taking it out of the holster, even though I thought I had good reason to and thought it was "safe". From now on I will find a new way to take care of business, and I think I am going to get a new carry gun, maybe an M&P shield, a single stack nine since I do love that slim profile. Anyway, hopefully this will help someone out and we can all learn something from this, I know I have. I do want to personally thank you for having the courage to post this thread. I think you have directly impacted several members who carry a 1911 and did not know about the possible safety issues with series 70 pistols. so thanks again OP I and I am glad you are OK. well said |
|
Quoted:
as I said, NEGLIGENT AS HELL. OP needs to acknowledge a little stupidity here. If it's a series 70 style and you choose to have one in the pipe, dropping it can make it go bang! I am amazed at the number of people in this thread who are suddenly off to google this to see if THEIR 1911 can do this TOO! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think that would qualify as an accidental discharge No, he unholstered the gun when there was no need to do so. ND. as I said, NEGLIGENT AS HELL. OP needs to acknowledge a little stupidity here. If it's a series 70 style and you choose to have one in the pipe, dropping it can make it go bang! I am amazed at the number of people in this thread who are suddenly off to google this to see if THEIR 1911 can do this TOO! You may as well give up and stop being surprised at all of the derp in the thread. Same ppl that won't buy a glock bc it does not have a grip or thumb safety. SA Champion owner and its my edc. Fucker doesn't leave the holster during shit time. |
|
Quoted: I dont understand, the safety is engaged yet the slide is back and I dont see any damage to the slide or safety. How is that possible? Due to this thread I will never own a series 70. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That safety looks like it is popped out of the frame (and for that reason not engaged). Is that the case? This the safety was not popped out, it just ran it right over I dont understand, the safety is engaged yet the slide is back and I dont see any damage to the slide or safety. How is that possible? Due to this thread I will never own a series 70. |
|
|
For conceal, open carry, and for normal cobat duty, carry cock and locked, but make sure you have a firing pin safety.
Drop fire is one of the flaw of the 1911. The lousy problem is, most implementation of the firing pin safety is poorly executed, as in the Series 80. For competition, bullseye, IPSC, 3 Guns, IDPA, Series 70 type 1911, no firing pin safety. |
|
Quoted:
here is the update I put in the OP From the standpoint of an AD or ND....I can see the case for both, but I absolutely agree that leaving it in the holster when I take a dump would have prevented this whole thing from happening. It was a freak one in a million accident, but I agree that I was negligent for taking it out of the holster, even though I thought I had good reason to and thought it was "safe". From now on I will find a new way to take care of business, and I think I am going to get a new carry gun, maybe an M&P shield, a single stack nine since I do love that slim profile. Anyway, hopefully this will help someone out and we can all learn something from this, I know I have. View Quote I take mine out of my holster, as well. Too easy for someone in the next stall to reach down and grab it, which is worse than dropping it, imho. But I put mine in my "boxer hammock" to keep it safe and secure. Plus, there's no may I'm walking out and forgetting it. |
|
|
Quoted:
Let's add something to this equation. Let's suppose that the discharged round struck someone. How fast could a prosecutor or civil attorney prove negligence. Defendant removed the firearm from its holster Defendant then proceeded to place said firearm, loaded, onto a narrow, unsecured surface Defendant failed to unload the round from the chamber Defendants firearm fell from the narrow, unsecured surface striking the ground Upon striking the ground, the defendants firearm then discharged with the discharged round striking the victim / my client Defendant was carrying a firearm with a known safety issue of discharges when dropped Defendants firearm did not have a firing pin block when new, standard firearms of the same type do. L You see where I am going with this... Let's call it accidental negligence. View Quote You are correct. Let's sue the manufacturer. |
|
Quoted: Hmm. I shoot guns in my office and I'm still employed. Antiquated gun? You mean like the guns some of the most elite forces in the world carry. The same kinds of gun that win modern IPSC competitions. The gun hitting the ground was OP negligence. The gun firing was a malfunction of the pistol. If you want to add those together, I suppose the case could be made. Hardly the same negligence as pulling the trigger and firing when you didn't intend to fire. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: OP, please update this thread in a few weeks/months when management revises the gun policy and you are disciplined/fired. Everyone is laughing and joking now because it just happened. Let some time pass for people to realize what couldve happened and you will be the cause of all the new antigun rhetoric in the office. Lessons learned: 1. quit carrying a fucking antiquated gun. 2. get a fucking holster that retains your gun when held upside down. 3. quit finger fucking your gun. a gun should never come out of the holster unless you are specifically in need of it. this is a negligent discharge, anyone believing differently is wrong. the OP casued this for a variety of reasons. oh and go trade that damn nighthawk in for a glock or a da/sa sig. you are welcome Hmm. I shoot guns in my office and I'm still employed. Antiquated gun? You mean like the guns some of the most elite forces in the world carry. The same kinds of gun that win modern IPSC competitions. The gun hitting the ground was OP negligence. The gun firing was a malfunction of the pistol. If you want to add those together, I suppose the case could be made. Hardly the same negligence as pulling the trigger and firing when you didn't intend to fire. I hope OP offers to pay for the tile repair and that the owner was smart enough to have extra matching tile. Tiles change so fast that w what you bought at home Depot last weekend may never be available again. 40 years of tile experience here.
|
|
Did not read the 9 pages. Glad you are ok, sucks about the AD/ND.
What happened with your job? I can't imagine many people looked kindly on you for letting one go off in the bathroom. I don't see a way to blame that one on a massive fart either. lol |
|
I read the original post, but not nine pages.
All I can say is that I would technically consider this an "office pop" if I were you. (High five) Glad no one was hurt :) |
|
Quoted: Unless it's an early model it's got a FPS. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Since we're all pulling a Ralphie Wiggams and learnding here, anyone know whether my Kimber Desert Warrior has this magical firing pin safety? Not that I'd ever consider CCW with it, it's too big, too heavy, and too expensive. http://www.sightm1911.com/images/Kimber_Desert_Warrior_450.jpg http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130520182619/simpsons/images/d/d5/Ralph_wiggum-with-gun.gif No it doesn't. Unless it's an early model it's got a FPS. Define "early model". I bought mine new in Dec '05 (s/n K180xxx) and there is not a firing pin safety. |
|
|
Quoted:
Because there is nothing preventing the firing pin from bouncing from the drop. This is one reason the series 80 1911 came about. I would suggest replacing your firing pin with a light weight one. The heavier the pin the more inertia it has when dropped. I've heard about this kind of ND with 1911s before. View Quote This. Inertia firing pin. (Based on it landing on the floor muzzle first) |
|
Quoted:
Define "early model". I bought mine new in Dec '05 (s/n K180xxx) and there is not a firing pin safety. http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc68/gunnyg_photos/Private/AR15/DSC07553.jpg http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc68/gunnyg_photos/Private/AR15/5D545789-CC57-432C-8518-C83B3811B88E-2162-0000016ADBE01688_zps77214d2d.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Since we're all pulling a Ralphie Wiggams and learnding here, anyone know whether my Kimber Desert Warrior has this magical firing pin safety? Not that I'd ever consider CCW with it, it's too big, too heavy, and too expensive. http://www.sightm1911.com/images/Kimber_Desert_Warrior_450.jpg http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130520182619/simpsons/images/d/d5/Ralph_wiggum-with-gun.gif No it doesn't. Unless it's an early model it's got a FPS. Define "early model". I bought mine new in Dec '05 (s/n K180xxx) and there is not a firing pin safety. http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc68/gunnyg_photos/Private/AR15/DSC07553.jpg http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc68/gunnyg_photos/Private/AR15/5D545789-CC57-432C-8518-C83B3811B88E-2162-0000016ADBE01688_zps77214d2d.jpg If it's a series 2,it has the Schwartz safety.The first series did not. |
|
Quoted:
ANY IDEAS ON HOW THE GUN COULD HAVE GONE OFF WITH THE GRIP SAFETY NOT ENGAGED AND THE THUMB SAFETY ON? the thumb safety is still on! View Quote When dropped on the muzzle, inertia can cause the firing pin in a 1911 to hit the primer hard enough to set it off. Looks like that's what happened to yours. |
|
Quoted:
here is the update I put in the OP From the standpoint of an AD or ND....I can see the case for both, but I absolutely agree that leaving it in the holster when I take a dump would have prevented this whole thing from happening. It was a freak one in a million accident, but I agree that I was negligent for taking it out of the holster, even though I thought I had good reason to and thought it was "safe". From now on I will find a new way to take care of business, and I think I am going to get a new carry gun, maybe an M&P shield, a single stack nine since I do love that slim profile. Anyway, hopefully this will help someone out and we can all learn something from this, I know I have. View Quote Even though this was a ND, this is what makes you a responsible gun owner. You obviously carry on a daily basis, you had a ND and luckly no one was injured, and now you are fixing the problem. Kudos to the OP |
|
Quoted:
I was taught to never remove my firearm from its holster unless you intend to shoot it or unload it. I teach ccw classes and that is still my advice to folks. Leave your guns alone while you are carrying them unless you need to shoot or unload it at the end of the day. Seems to me most discharges occur when the gun is being taken out of a holster or being put into a holster. View Quote That's not always feasible. I used to carry a Kimber Ultra CDP in a VersaMax II holster. That holster seemed to rely upon tension from the belt to retain the weapon. I learned this the hard way in a public restroom when my pistol fell from the holster while I was dropping trou. The weight of the pistol had caused the holster to roll inverted and the pistol slipped out. After that, I usually removed the pistol from the holster while lowering trou, though I never tried to wedge it in the seat cover dispenser. A couple of my other VM 2 holsters seem to maintain a tighter grip on the pistol, but I take care to keep my hand on the grip while going through the lowering process. I also run a Comp Tac Minotaur that doesn't rely on belt tension to retain the firearm. |
|
Glad you'e alright OP and glad no one was hurt.
I'm also happy that the bullet didn't it the stool, that would have made one hell of a mess. |
|
Woah! I'm late to the thread but give me a call if you need anything. I'm glad that you're not hurt.
|
|
|
So did it ding your gun?
Glad to hear nobody got hurt. Hope you get to keep your job. I am nowhere near as averse to series 80 parts after reading this. Anyone know if the Springfield TRP has them or not?
|
|
|
Quoted: I dont understand, the safety is engaged yet the slide is back and I dont see any damage to the slide or safety. How is that possible? Due to this thread I will never own a series 70. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That safety looks like it is popped out of the frame (and for that reason not engaged). Is that the case? This the safety was not popped out, it just ran it right over I dont understand, the safety is engaged yet the slide is back and I dont see any damage to the slide or safety. How is that possible? Due to this thread I will never own a series 70. I just realized that I own 4 of them and I will continue to carry one every day. I have complete faith in each of them and my competence to handle then safely.
|
|
Quoted:
I don't think Kimber ever built a series 2 Desert Warrior did they? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
<snip> If it's a series 2,it has the Schwartz safety.The first series did not. I don't think Kimber ever built a series 2 Desert Warrior did they? I don't know,if that's the case I stand corrected. |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.