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dport, these posts read like they're in stereo View Quote One of my cubicle-mates is a Catholic lay-leader at a local base chapel. I get the same story from him. What's crazy is they just high year tenured a Priest LT because he didn't make LCDR. Never mind the need for people of his faith in the service, the PERS must go on. |
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I'm not assuming anything. FT14 starts on 1 Oct 2013. A mutli-year contract is still funded year-to-year. FY14 funds have not been released. Where do you suppose I got the quoted text I posted? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Cue face palm and relax. This is a new fiscal year, so the new contracts (FY14) are unfunded. Since we can't pay the contract we can't demand the services. The government is also legally prohibited from accepting donations of services that are contracted but unpaid. The priests, or organ players, or anyone else for that matter aren't going to be arrested. There's no authority to arrest. If they do "get arrested" someone is not reading/following the law/their orders correctly. The military chaplains who run the various chapels have already been directed they cannot accept donations of time and labor so they wll largely manage chapel access. You're assuming their contracts are new and or haven't been funded with isn't necessarily true. I'm not assuming anything. FT14 starts on 1 Oct 2013. A mutli-year contract is still funded year-to-year. FY14 funds have not been released. Where do you suppose I got the quoted text I posted? I am on your side here, but technically speaking, some contracts are indeed fully funded beyond October 1st 2013. Intricacies of budgets, etc. I agree tho, not the kind for religious services. |
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Probably because they are the only ones who take a vow of poverty, and wouldn't feel comfortable making Major or LtCol pay like all the other god squad does. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Why is this only directed at Catholic Priests? No other clergy? Right now there is a shortage of Priests in DoD. Not sure why that is, but the services have had to contract for Priests due to the shortage. Other Christian faiths have adequate representation in the Chaplain Corps right now, so only Catholic Priests are being contracted for. Probably because they are the only ones who take a vow of poverty, and wouldn't feel comfortable making Major or LtCol pay like all the other god squad does. There is a worldwide shortage of Catholic Priests. The Church views military Chaplaincy as a positive both spiritually and fiscally (because the government is paying the salary of the Priest). The Church has right of first refusal and can recall a Priest from military service to serve where there is greater need at anytime. Unfortunately, the Church must make decisions which gap many military billets in order to serve the larger Church population nation/worldwide. So larger Catholic billets, such as on an Aircraft Carrier, get filled with military members, while shore billets get filled with contracted services. Because you can't really fill a depolyed billet with a contracted civilian. Even absent the current fiscal atmosphere, there are many contracts that go unmet. They are funded, but there is nobody available to accept the contract and provide services. Some installations do not have local services available. |
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I am on your side here, but technically speaking, some contracts are indeed full funded beyond October 1st 2013. Intricacies of budgets, etc. View Quote True. There are about 8 contractors in my office who are still working because their contracts were funded into FY14 using FY13 money. What Desert_AIP is telling you is that the contract for Catholic Priest services was not funded that way. |
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True. There are about 8 contractors in my office who are still working because their contracts were funded into FY14 using FY13 money. What Desert_AIP is telling you is that the contract for Catholic Priest services was not funded that way. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I am on your side here, but technically speaking, some contracts are indeed full funded beyond October 1st 2013. Intricacies of budgets, etc. True. There are about 8 contractors in my office who are still working because their contracts were funded into FY14 using FY13 money. What Desert_AIP is telling you is that the contract for Catholic Priest services was not funded that way. I know, I added that in an edit but probably while you were posting this |
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I am on your side here, but technically speaking, some contracts are indeed fully funded beyond October 1st 2013. Intricacies of budgets, etc. I agree tho, not the kind for religious services. View Quote True, some of it is accounting tricks. Our grounds services contracts are funded, but I believe they took money from the working capital fund to do so and will replenish/repay those funds borrowed when the FY14 money is released. A lot of year end FY13 money got released in the past couple of weeks. Making some of the cuts we made over the past 6 months seem . This contracting law stuff is the same reason I can't have Sailors swab decks that are contracted to be cleaned, but unfunded. So the decks go unswabbed and I have Sailors sitting around idle. Blame the lawyers. |
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I know, I added that in an edit but probably while you were posting this View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I am on your side here, but technically speaking, some contracts are indeed full funded beyond October 1st 2013. Intricacies of budgets, etc. True. There are about 8 contractors in my office who are still working because their contracts were funded into FY14 using FY13 money. What Desert_AIP is telling you is that the contract for Catholic Priest services was not funded that way. I know, I added that in an edit but probably while you were posting this Probably. I've been trying to get my post count up with quick responses. |
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Catholic priests in military face arrest for celebrating Mass
The U.S. military has furloughed as many as 50 Catholic chaplains due to the partial suspension of government services, banning them from celebrating weekend Mass. At least one chaplain was told that if he engaged in any ministry activity, he would be subjected to disciplinary action.
The Archdiocese for the Military Services tells me the military installations impacted are served by non-active-duty priests who were hired as government contractors. As a result of a shortage of active duty Catholic chaplains, the government hires contract priests. Broglio said some military bases have forbidden the contract priests from volunteering to celebrate Mass without pay. “They were told they cannot function because those are contracted services and since there’s no funding they can’t do it – even if they volunteer,” he said. View Quote I guess that is like the memorials: you can't visit because there aren't rangers there. But there are rangers there to tell you there is no one there. |
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I hope it was DuffelBlog Radio. It's close. It's FoxNews sensationalism. So light on facts. Aunti Em, Aunti Em, It's a twister!!! Drudge, Fox, MSNBC, etc. If you just react to a headline, sometimes if you react to a story, without understanding what's really going on, you react to a bunch of bullshit. |
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True, some of it is accounting tricks. Our grounds services contracts are funded, but I believe they took money from the working capital fund to do so and will replenish/repay those funds borrowed when the FY14 money is released. A lot of year end FY13 money got released in the past couple of weeks. Making some of the cuts we made over the past 6 months seem . This contracting law stuff is the same reason I can't have Sailors swab decks that are contracted to be cleaned, but unfunded. So the decks go unswabbed and I have Sailors sitting around idle. Blame the lawyers. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I am on your side here, but technically speaking, some contracts are indeed fully funded beyond October 1st 2013. Intricacies of budgets, etc. I agree tho, not the kind for religious services. True, some of it is accounting tricks. Our grounds services contracts are funded, but I believe they took money from the working capital fund to do so and will replenish/repay those funds borrowed when the FY14 money is released. A lot of year end FY13 money got released in the past couple of weeks. Making some of the cuts we made over the past 6 months seem . This contracting law stuff is the same reason I can't have Sailors swab decks that are contracted to be cleaned, but unfunded. So the decks go unswabbed and I have Sailors sitting around idle. Blame the lawyers. Not all of it is tricks. I've been funded through the end of the year for a while. ETA they should just go say mass. I heard DCMA got furloughed |
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When the budgets started getting delayed and CRs started being the norm, smart contracting officers started ending contracts in Q2 of the FY. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Not all of it is tricks. I've been funded through the end of the year for a while. When the budgets started getting delayed and CRs started being the norm, smart contracting officers started ending contracts in Q2 of the FY. I wonder if Spade is the exception that proves the rule. |
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The restriction only applies to those that are current employees, either contracted or GS. It is the exact same restriction for all furloughed federal employees. A local Catholic priest who is not a DoD employees would not be prohibited from volunteering his time. The problem, though, is what to do where there aren't any that can do this. Obama didn't order it. Congress is the one who makes these rules And GD is the place where people were chearing this on. Now, it seems like everyday a new "well, we didn't mean that" exception pops up. http://www.milarch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=dwJXKgOUJiIaG&b=8486699&ct=13344123 View Quote LOL - Always the contrarian. Congress is pretty tweaked, but this blame Congress for all this is extremely short sighted. One day I hope you grow out of this down or Arfcom.......or just plain leave. “The President’s strategy during the slowdown, just as during the sequestration, is to create as much pain as possible. However, this action crosses a constitutional line of obstructing every U.S. service member’s ability to practice his or her religion.” Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/04/priests-threatened-with-arrest-if-they-minister-to-military-during-shutdown/#ixzz2gnALJ3EV |
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LOL - Always the contrarian. Congress is pretty tweaked, but this blame Congress for all this is extremely short sighted. One day I hope you grow out of this down or Arfcom.......or just plain leave. “The President’s strategy during the slowdown, just as during the sequestration, is to create as much pain as possible. However, this action crosses a constitutional line of obstructing every U.S. service member’s ability to practice his or her religion.” Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/04/priests-threatened-with-arrest-if-they-minister-to-military-during-shutdown/#ixzz2gnALJ3EV View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The restriction only applies to those that are current employees, either contracted or GS. It is the exact same restriction for all furloughed federal employees. A local Catholic priest who is not a DoD employees would not be prohibited from volunteering his time. The problem, though, is what to do where there aren't any that can do this. Obama didn't order it. Congress is the one who makes these rules And GD is the place where people were chearing this on. Now, it seems like everyday a new "well, we didn't mean that" exception pops up. http://www.milarch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=dwJXKgOUJiIaG&b=8486699&ct=13344123 LOL - Always the contrarian. Congress is pretty tweaked, but this blame Congress for all this is extremely short sighted. One day I hope you grow out of this down or Arfcom.......or just plain leave. “The President’s strategy during the slowdown, just as during the sequestration, is to create as much pain as possible. However, this action crosses a constitutional line of obstructing every U.S. service member’s ability to practice his or her religion.” Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/04/priests-threatened-with-arrest-if-they-minister-to-military-during-shutdown/#ixzz2gnALJ3EV So tell me, oh wise one, how many ships embark chaplains of all the faiths onboard? I mean we must right, if we are not to obstruct every service member's ability to practice his or her religion. |
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When the priests offered to volunteer their services to provide for the needs of their military parishioners, or even in cases where the people offered to pay for it, the administration told them that if they attempted to perform their duties on base they faced arrest. View Quote are you serious ? |
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When the priests offered to volunteer their services to provide for the needs of their military parishioners, or even in cases where the people offered to pay for it, the administration told them that if they attempted to perform their duties on base they faced arrest. are you serious ? Contracting laws are a bitch. But they are intended to protect someone from being coerced into performing services to the government under the guise of being "volunteered." |
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I wonder if Spade is the exception that proves the rule. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Not all of it is tricks. I've been funded through the end of the year for a while. When the budgets started getting delayed and CRs started being the norm, smart contracting officers started ending contracts in Q2 of the FY. I wonder if Spade is the exception that proves the rule. I always thought the CORs were just lazy. |
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I wonder if Spade is the exception that proves the rule. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Not all of it is tricks. I've been funded through the end of the year for a while. When the budgets started getting delayed and CRs started being the norm, smart contracting officers started ending contracts in Q2 of the FY. I wonder if Spade is the exception that proves the rule. Probably. I mean, with actual critical functions the smart COs had to do this. When you operate on CRs and you see how Congress and the White House have been going since zero got elected, you learn quickly how to plan ahead. And yes, the contracts I am currently familiar with are absolutely the sort of critical ops type things, so it's a good thing they planned ahead. |
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I don't think the Mocha Messiah is in their chain of command.
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Contracting laws are a bitch. But they are intended to protect someone from being coerced into performing services to the government under the guise of being "volunteered." View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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When the priests offered to volunteer their services to provide for the needs of their military parishioners, or even in cases where the people offered to pay for it, the administration told them that if they attempted to perform their duties on base they faced arrest. are you serious ? Contracting laws are a bitch. But they are intended to protect someone from being coerced into performing services to the government under the guise of being "volunteered." And to ensure fairness in contracting which protects both companies AND the taxpayer. |
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For those of you bound and determined to get worked up, I'll throw you a bone:
THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE HAS DIRECTED THAT ALL COMMUNITY AND PUBLIC OUTREACH ACTIVITIES WILL CEASE.
THIS CESSATION WILL REMAIN IN EFFECT THROUGHOUT THE CURRENT LAPSE IN APPROPRIATIONS. View Quote |
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It is a right under the constitution and that supersedes a contractual law issue. They cannot regulate a RIGHT in that manner.
Lets test this one in court. |
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It is a right under the constitution and that supersedes a contractual law issue. They cannot regulate a RIGHT in that manner. Lets test this one in court. View Quote The government isn't saying that the troops etc can't worship; they're saying that they can't allow the contracted priests to lead the services without pay. It's really a not so subtle difference...your case would lose IMO. |
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Quoted: The government isn't saying that the troops etc can't worship; they're saying that they can't allow the contracted priests to lead the services without pay. It's really a not so subtle difference...your case would lose IMO. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: It is a right under the constitution and that supersedes a contractual law issue. They cannot regulate a RIGHT in that manner. Lets test this one in court. The government isn't saying that the troops etc can't worship; they're saying that they can't allow the contracted priests to lead the services without pay. It's really a not so subtle difference...your case would lose IMO. |
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You may be right given how corrupt the law system is as well. But the first amendment clearly states the government cannot make a law that impedes the FREE exercise of religion. Priests are not "contract workers". They are ministers of God and it's not a job to say mass its a calling and a religious practice. It would be a HUGE over reach and stretch to defy that. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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It is a right under the constitution and that supersedes a contractual law issue. They cannot regulate a RIGHT in that manner. Lets test this one in court. The government isn't saying that the troops etc can't worship; they're saying that they can't allow the contracted priests to lead the services without pay. It's really a not so subtle difference...your case would lose IMO. LOL. What color is the sky in your world? |
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You may be right given how corrupt the law system is as well. But the first amendment clearly states the government cannot make a law that impedes the FREE exercise of religion. Priests are not "contract workers". They are ministers of God and it's not a job to say mass its a calling and a religious practice. It would be a HUGE over reach and stretch to defy that. View Quote The priests can still say mass for service members at any Church off base. The Church could even provide a shuttle to pick up service members at the base gate. The expiration of the contract coincides with the expiration of the common access card(s) held by the contractor(s), priest(s) in this case, that allows access to the base. Do you think that ANY minister of ANY denomination should have first amendment rights to hold services in military base chapels? |
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I swear Obama is a pussy ass petulent child who will fuck with everyone he can until we all give into his ways.
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We don't have a priest at the installment I worked at. The local priest provide sacraments to the local troupes. Also our chaplains as wonderful as they are... are active duty and non Catholic.
ETA...this isn't about being Catholic. It's a matter of religious practice. |
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Could not find it quickly, but will post this picture as it is funny enough. What I did find was this is an issue noted from advice of council - not necessarily a military ruling. So these pictures might be as realistic. http://sayanythingblog.com/files/2013/10/gw-parkway.jpg http://iowntheworld.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/mount-rushmore.jpg View Quote Wow the Libs have gone off the deep end. |
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We don't have a priest at the installment I worked at. The local priest provide sacraments to the local troupes. Also our chaplains as wonderful as they are... are active duty and non Catholic. ETA...this isn't about being Catholic. It's a matter of religious practice. View Quote Then go off base. Call a local church and ask for a ride, I'm sure they'll help. The government isn't preventing you from practicing. It is simply not subsidizing your religion for a while. Damn FSA. |
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Quoted: Then go off base. Call a local church and ask for a ride, I'm sure they'll help. The government isn't preventing you from practicing. It is simply not subsidizing your religion for a while. Damn FSA. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: We don't have a priest at the installment I worked at. The local priest provide sacraments to the local troupes. Also our chaplains as wonderful as they are... are active duty and non Catholic. ETA...this isn't about being Catholic. It's a matter of religious practice. Then go off base. Call a local church and ask for a ride, I'm sure they'll help. The government isn't preventing you from practicing. It is simply not subsidizing your religion for a while. Damn FSA. Some can't see the difference between practice and facilitate when their own ox is being gored. |
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Quoted: Could not find it quickly, but will post this picture as it is funny enough. What I did find was this is an issue noted from advice of council - not necessarily a military ruling. So these pictures might be as realistic. http://sayanythingblog.com/files/2013/10/gw-parkway.jpg http://iowntheworld.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/mount-rushmore.jpg View Quote |
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You may be right given how corrupt the law system is as well. But the first amendment clearly states the government cannot make a law that impedes the FREE exercise of religion. Priests are not "contract workers". They are ministers of God and it's not a job to say mass its a calling and a religious practice. It would be a HUGE over reach and stretch to defy that. View Quote Priests are contract workers if the Church decides to start accepting contracts for their services. |
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Priests are not "contract workers". View Quote Are you saying that those priests did not sign contracts to say mass on base? Should government contractors (or military or Gov't civilians) be allowed to work for free? Surely you can see the potential for abuses if that was the case. |
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Good thing the barrycade contracts were funded before the shutdown. Would have hated to have problems getting the important things paid for.
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