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Posted: 9/11/2013 9:58:50 PM EDT
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-assures-sceptics-you-dont-have-to-believe-in-god-to-go-to-heaven-8810062.html
Responding to a list of questions published in the paper by Mr Scalfari, who is not a Roman Catholic, Francis wrote: “You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.
“Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.” IBTL 
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Posted: 9/11/2013 10:00:21 PM EDT
[#1]
pope is smoking some goody good
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Posted: 9/11/2013 10:06:15 PM EDT
[#2]
Everyone that follows Pope Francis' advice is going to be mad at him when they go to hell.
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Posted: 9/11/2013 10:09:27 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everyone that follows Pope Francis' advice is going to be mad at him when they go to hell. Only if I follow your religion. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 10:13:01 PM EDT
[#4]
Lowering the recruitment standards. Membership must be getting low.
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Posted: 9/11/2013 10:19:17 PM EDT
[#5]
smart man actually... theres people that literally will never hear of God why would they go to hell?
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Posted: 9/11/2013 10:19:29 PM EDT
[#6]
As far as I know, believing Jesus died for my sins and following God's commandments are what I need to do to go to heaven.
But at the end of the day, it's God's house, and he lets in whomever he wants.
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Posted: 9/11/2013 10:21:25 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: smart man actually... theres people that literally will never hear of God why would they go to hell? They may never hear the good news, but the law is written on their hearts.
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Posted: 9/11/2013 10:22:25 PM EDT
[#8]
The prophecy of St. Malachy states that this pope will become the false profit. Along with the mighty muslum aka antichrist they will usher in armogeden...
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Posted: 9/11/2013 10:23:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The prophecy of St. Malachy states that this pope will become the false profit. Along with the mighty muslum aka antichrist they will usher in armogeden...  |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 10:25:42 PM EDT
[#10]
What he meant was almost anyone can afford a plane ticket to Thailand these days.
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Posted: 9/11/2013 10:30:44 PM EDT
[#11]
He obviously won't punish those who don't know any better. Like if a child was killed in a car wreck, the child would go to heaven because he/she is to young to understand religion and God.
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Posted: 9/11/2013 10:33:30 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryJohn 14:6 ESV
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 10:33:32 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He obviously won't punish those who don't know any better. Like if a child was killed in a car wreck, the child would go to heaven because he/she is to young to understand religion and God. Hold the phone, I thought the child had to be baptized? (In Catholic dogma...) |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 10:37:29 PM EDT
[#14]
Didn't he already say something similar and take it back earlier this year?
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Posted: 9/11/2013 10:37:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They may never hear the good news, but the law is written on their hearts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
smart man actually... theres people that literally will never hear of God why would they go to hell? They may never hear the good news, but the law is written on their hearts. From the pope: “Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.” |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 10:39:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hold the phone, I thought the child had to be baptized? (In Catholic dogma...) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
He obviously won't punish those who don't know any better. Like if a child was killed in a car wreck, the child would go to heaven because he/she is to young to understand religion and God. Hold the phone, I thought the child had to be baptized? (In Catholic dogma...) And if the parents of said child weren't religious? Either way, baptized or not, God isn't going to send a kid to hell if he/she isn't old enough to know and comprehend who God even is. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 10:42:12 PM EDT
[#17]
In other news: millions worldwide have suddenly cancelled Sunday football games on their DVR, opting instead to watch it in real time.
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Posted: 9/11/2013 10:43:09 PM EDT
[#18]
Im just a lowly human and If I had the power that God supposedly has I would let anyone in heaven as long as they werent complete fucks. Honestly someone that didnt believe in me and still did great things would be higher than anyone else... Doing good out of fear isnt as good as doing it cause your just a good person.
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Posted: 9/11/2013 10:44:14 PM EDT
[#19]
The title is deceiving. Where is heaven mentioned in the article?
The Pope says, if you don't believe in God, you should still follow your conscience. I'd agree with that. God is part of all of us, and our conscience is a manifestation of God within us. So the Pope is saying, if you don't believe in God, at least try to follow His will. Did I miss the part of the article where he discusses salvation?
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Posted: 9/11/2013 10:46:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hold the phone, I thought the child had to be baptized? (In Catholic dogma...) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
He obviously won't punish those who don't know any better. Like if a child was killed in a car wreck, the child would go to heaven because he/she is to young to understand religion and God. Hold the phone, I thought the child had to be baptized? (In Catholic dogma...) Baptism is very crucial in most Christian sects. However, putting off Baptism, or neglecting to have the child Baptized falls upon the parents until the child is capable of making their own choices. I'm Christian and so believe that for me they way is through Christ. I can't believe however that all of the good and decent people who follow another path, or no path at all, are condemned. I really need to do a better job at it though. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 11:02:30 PM EDT
[#21]
I was always confused about how someone could say that a being who demanded unconditional love or he would have you tortured for eternity was loving, kind, and generous. That's not love, that's terrorism.
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Posted: 9/11/2013 11:04:28 PM EDT
[#22]
As a Roman Catholic......
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Posted: 9/11/2013 11:07:15 PM EDT
[#23]
lol |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 11:08:29 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Im just a lowly human and If I had the power that God supposedly has I would let anyone in heaven as long as they werent complete fucks. Honestly someone that didnt believe in me and still did great things would be higher than anyone else... Doing good out of fear isnt as good as doing it cause your just a good person. Why on earth would you think that deeds done by the faithful are "done out of fear"? |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 11:11:55 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why on earth would you think that deeds done by the faithful are "done out of fear"? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Im just a lowly human and If I had the power that God supposedly has I would let anyone in heaven as long as they werent complete fucks. Honestly someone that didnt believe in me and still did great things would be higher than anyone else... Doing good out of fear isnt as good as doing it cause your just a good person. Why on earth would you think that deeds done by the faithful are "done out of fear"? Because it follows that if you believe an omnipotent being is threatening you with an eternity of torture that many will see that as a primary motivation for obedience? The idea that avoid everlasting torment, get everlasting bliss is not a factor is just completely absurd. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 11:15:45 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
John 14:6 ESV
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Since Christ is the only one in the history of the world to raise himself from the grave I am going with this. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 11:17:45 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As a Roman Catholic...... |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 11:23:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Me too. This guy is an embarrassment. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
As a Roman Catholic...... I'm honestly puzzled by that statement. I can see disagreeing with this particular issue. But hasn't he actively been purging the Church of child molesters, financial crooks, pretty much clearing house? And again, I'm not Catholic, but the first thing he did was wash the feet of the poor. There was an outcry amongst the Vatican, yet he humbled himself as no Pope has in.. centuries? I thought it was a beautiful thing. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 11:23:15 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
John 14:6 ESV
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. So, God's mercy has limits? Or, is Jesus not God. Or... do you have a point? |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 11:25:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because it follows that if you believe an omnipotent being is threatening you with an eternity of torture that many will see that as a primary motivation for obedience? The idea that avoid everlasting torment, get everlasting bliss is not a factor is just completely absurd. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Im just a lowly human and If I had the power that God supposedly has I would let anyone in heaven as long as they werent complete fucks. Honestly someone that didnt believe in me and still did great things would be higher than anyone else... Doing good out of fear isnt as good as doing it cause your just a good person. Why on earth would you think that deeds done by the faithful are "done out of fear"? Because it follows that if you believe an omnipotent being is threatening you with an eternity of torture that many will see that as a primary motivation for obedience? The idea that avoid everlasting torment, get everlasting bliss is not a factor is just completely absurd. Not to mention hundreds of posts over the years where people flat-out said the only reason they don't go on rape and killing rampages is out of fear of divine retribution. I'll take the atheist who, in spite of no such fear, still manages to understand hurting other people is wrong. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 11:27:52 PM EDT
[#31]
FWIW, here is the whole quote.
Can one of you Biblical Scholars point out exactly what is wrong with it? “You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience. “Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.” |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 11:34:12 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FWIW, here is the whole quote. Can one of you Biblical Scholars point out exactly what is wrong with it? “You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience. “Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.” No idea, but I agree. Hitchens, maybe? No... he wouldn't acknowledge any divine being... I do like that quote though. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 11:37:10 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why on earth would you think that deeds done by the faithful are "done out of fear"? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Im just a lowly human and If I had the power that God supposedly has I would let anyone in heaven as long as they werent complete fucks. Honestly someone that didnt believe in me and still did great things would be higher than anyone else... Doing good out of fear isnt as good as doing it cause your just a good person. Why on earth would you think that deeds done by the faithful are "done out of fear"? How many times have you heard people use the phrase "I'm a god fearing man"? |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 11:41:07 PM EDT
[#34]
Two armies believing on the same God, have God on their side and battle each other saying each battles for the right cause. Which soldiers go to Heaven and which go to Hell?
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Posted: 9/11/2013 11:41:49 PM EDT
[#35]
For centuries, the only thing every religion has had in common is the belief that their own little twisted path is the only one that leads to salvation. This guy is breaking the mold, saying something that should be blatantly obvious: no benevolent God would be so petty as to send a truly righteous man to eternal torment because he rooted for the wrong team.
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Posted: 9/11/2013 11:41:53 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm honestly puzzled by that statement. I can see disagreeing with this particular issue. But hasn't he actively been purging the Church of child molesters, financial crooks, pretty much clearing house? And again, I'm not Catholic, but the first thing he did was wash the feet of the poor. There was an outcry amongst the Vatican, yet he humbled himself as no Pope has in.. centuries? I thought it was a beautiful thing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: As a Roman Catholic...... I'm honestly puzzled by that statement. I can see disagreeing with this particular issue. But hasn't he actively been purging the Church of child molesters, financial crooks, pretty much clearing house? And again, I'm not Catholic, but the first thing he did was wash the feet of the poor. There was an outcry amongst the Vatican, yet he humbled himself as no Pope has in.. centuries? I thought it was a beautiful thing. Since becoming Pope, Francis has on numerous occasions made off the cuff remarks contradictory to traditional Catholic teaching. As the head of the church he is a theological lightweight compared to his predecessor. Whether you're Catholic or not, believe in God or not, the Pope's words have weight as the leader of the largest Christian denomination in the world, and his habit of forgetting this is troubling.
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Posted: 9/11/2013 11:46:25 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For centuries, the only thing every religion has had in common is the belief that their own little twisted path is the only one that leads to salvation. This guy is breaking the mold, saying something that should be blatantly obvious: no benevolent God would be so petty as to send a truly righteous man to eternal torment because he rooted for the wrong team. This guy isn't saying anything new as far as a doctrine of the Catholic church is concerned, he's just calling attention to it. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 11:48:30 PM EDT
[#38]
FWIW, here is the Vatican press release.
http://www.news.va/en/news/popes-letter-to-non-believers-in-italian-paper-la?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=popes-letter-to-non-believers-in-italian-paper-la-repubblica Here is the entire letter, in Italian. It does not appear to have been released in other languages. http://www.repubblica.it/cultura/2013/09/11/news/sintesi_lettera_bergoglio-66283390/?ref=HRER3-1 |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 11:48:58 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll answer to the best of my ability here. Since becoming Pope, Francis has on numerous occasions made off the cuff remarks contradictory to traditional Catholic teaching. As the head of the church he is a theological lightweight compared to his predecessor. Whether you're Catholic or not, believe in God or not, the Pope's words have weight as the leader of the largest Christian denomination in the world, and his habit of forgetting this is troubling. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
As a Roman Catholic...... I'm honestly puzzled by that statement. I can see disagreeing with this particular issue. But hasn't he actively been purging the Church of child molesters, financial crooks, pretty much clearing house? And again, I'm not Catholic, but the first thing he did was wash the feet of the poor. There was an outcry amongst the Vatican, yet he humbled himself as no Pope has in.. centuries? I thought it was a beautiful thing. Since becoming Pope, Francis has on numerous occasions made off the cuff remarks contradictory to traditional Catholic teaching. As the head of the church he is a theological lightweight compared to his predecessor. Whether you're Catholic or not, believe in God or not, the Pope's words have weight as the leader of the largest Christian denomination in the world, and his habit of forgetting this is troubling. Can you give one example? |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 12:28:00 AM EDT
[#40]
http://www.religionnews.com/2013/05/24/video-colbert-weighs-in-on-popes-remarks-about-atheists/
Yeah here's one. Openly mocked by a half ass comedian.
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Posted: 9/12/2013 12:45:16 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FWIW, here is the whole quote. Can one of you Biblical Scholars point out exactly what is wrong with it? “You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience. “Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.” What about those, who in good conscience, believe it is their duty to do things that most people would call evil? |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 2:22:50 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As a Roman Catholic...... Elaborate please. |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 2:27:57 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And if the parents of said child weren't religious? Either way, baptized or not, God isn't going to send a kid to hell if he/she isn't old enough to know and comprehend who God even is. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: He obviously won't punish those who don't know any better. Like if a child was killed in a car wreck, the child would go to heaven because he/she is to young to understand religion and God. |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 2:33:38 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What about those, who in good conscience, believe it is their duty to do things that most people would call evil? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
FWIW, here is the whole quote. Can one of you Biblical Scholars point out exactly what is wrong with it? “You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience. “Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.” What about those, who in good conscience, believe it is their duty to do things that most people would call evil? What about them? God is the ultimate Judge. That is what the Church, and the Bible teach. People have for years tried to claim they have special insight into this process by what they read in the Bible, but the fact remains this is not spelled out anywhere - just various examples and anecdotes about people who are justified / saved. The Church's job is to teach the lessons Christ taught and hold each other accountable in this life. God does the judging. This is not new doctrine. It is as old as the Church. The outrage against the Pope is essentially people saying, "how dare he suggest he doesn't hold the moral authority to judge and condemn based on superficial, human understanding?" |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 2:37:32 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Since Christ is the only one in the history of the world to raise himself from the grave I am going with this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: John 14:6 ESV Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Since Christ is the only one in the history of the world to raise himself from the grave I am going with this. Not only did he rise from the dead, he performed many, many, miracles witnessed by thousands. Jesus is the Son of Almighty God and he will return. I look forward to it because this world is evil and I want to go to Heaven. |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 2:40:31 AM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 9/12/2013 2:44:52 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: John 14:6 ESV Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Doesn't say anything about Heaven
 |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 2:53:35 AM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 9/12/2013 2:59:39 AM EDT
[#49]
What is this 'Heaven' thing?
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Posted: 9/12/2013 3:00:37 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This guy isn't saying anything new as far as a doctrine of the Catholic church is concerned, he's just calling attention to it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
For centuries, the only thing every religion has had in common is the belief that their own little twisted path is the only one that leads to salvation. This guy is breaking the mold, saying something that should be blatantly obvious: no benevolent God would be so petty as to send a truly righteous man to eternal torment because he rooted for the wrong team. This guy isn't saying anything new as far as a doctrine of the Catholic church is concerned, he's just calling attention to it. +1 What's hilarious is that Benedict said many similar things, but the press didn't like him. |
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