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USMC6177
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:31:16 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Katara:
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
Originally Posted By centurion:
OP, we retired military people are not far behind. They will take our TRICARE health insurance within the the next two or three years and force us into OBAMACARE.

Is anyone on this board so naive that they don't think the plan is to force EVERYONE into OBAMACARE before the marxist-socialist motherfuckers are done?

So plan your retirement all you want, your government is going to fuck you.



I think that is absolutely horrible. If someone has served, that person and their spouse should have TRICARE until they die. They earned it. Why is that such a hard concept??

There is a difference between what is right and what is going to happen. Prepare accordingly.

I drink cheap beer, cheap wine, cheap liquor, and water out of the toilet if needs be. But i won't fucking touch aunt jemimah. And i won't let my kids either.---1969iggy
6winchester2
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:31:59 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Macker13:
Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Do you guys not understand that the biggest proponents of Socialized Medicine were big business? As far back as Hillary's first attempt at Hillary Care, GM and Ford where right there with her.

Obamacare is a windfall for big business.


How is it going to be a windfall for big business when the standard of living for the average American working or middle class person has been reduced, and they are therefore not able to purchase as many
goods or services from said big businesses as they formerly did?

Internatiionally, I don't know, maybe.

In terms of the domestic economy, decreasing the purchasing power (and reducing the standard of living) for the average American is NOT a "windfall for big business."
More value to shareholders if they spend less on employee benefits, they have more profit. In a global economy nobody in business worries about middle class buying power, that stopped a long time ago. If somebody in the middle class wants more buying power, they need to improve their job status and make more money, you hear it in GD all the time. No different than pensions.


Let me ask you a simple question:

Do you honestly believe that taking more money out of the pockets of private American citizens, and giving it to the government instead, is going to create wealth and long term value for corporate shareholders?

I'm not talking about short term, end of quarter or end of fiscal year gains to be made by cutting pension or medical benefits to make the annual report to shareholders look rosy.

I'm talking about whether or not you believe that increasing the size and power of government creates wealth in the private sector, or reduces it.
"The symbol on my holster is a chess knight, an attack piece, the most versatile on the board. It can move eight ways, over barriers, always unexpected." - Paladin, HG-WT.
lostnswv
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:32:10 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Just saw that.

This is not good news.




IBM has been trying to do this for years. it started long before i left.

IBM routinely shits on it's employees. they are infamous for canning people within a few months of retirement.



I am surprised there haven't been a few post canning disgruntled people massacres at IBM central HQ.
"When cities start using their, as you succinctly put it, "monopoly power on force" to stop a business from setting up shop in their city because of an opinion? Bet your ass I care. ..." Speedie
Deej86
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:32:45 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Stevesc:

Good news in disguise. The healthcare system is broken. Cost of care is triple what it should cost in free market. You can buy the same surgery in Europe for 1/3 the cost here. Out of pocket Americans are flying there to buy treatment.

Once we get majority of Americans on one public payer system we can dictate those doctors, hospitals, HMOs and layers on prices. IBM just fired the first shot. Every corporation in America will do the same.


The documentary Dead Meat should be REQUIRED viewing for anyone who thinks socialized, single payer HC is a good idea.

If you do see it(Google it) and you still think single payer is a good idea, well, I hope you enjoy waiting 3 years for knee replacement surgery. If my mom had to wait for a knee replacement that long, she'd be in a wheelchair. If my grandma had to wait 3 years, she would have not have lived as long as she did.
Many thanks to bigsapper!
"Jesus Christ, you really do remember everything."-Subnet, 1/20/08
Ah, Dafuq. Many fond memories of my time there, and in other battlegrounds around Iraq.- Sixtigers
TexasRifleman
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:33:09 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:
The Libs will consider this a victory.


This.
KILLERB6
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:33:46 AM EST
So is Honeywell...they no longer offer post-employment coverage for existing employees and will "drop" current retirees after 2022.

"See ya!"
cytotox
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:34:02 AM EST
and so it begins. all publicly traded companies were waiting for the first one to do it, now they will all follow. next will be current employees. all according dear leaders plan.
Rich_V
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:34:47 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Stevesc:
Originally Posted By KA3B:
Originally Posted By Stevesc:
Originally Posted By LurchAddams:
IBM is dumping retirees into the health insurance exchanges.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/07/ibm-to-move-retirees-off-health-plan/

Good news in disguise. The healthcare system is broken. Cost of care is triple what it should cost in free market. You can buy the same surgery in Europe for 1/3 the cost here. Out of pocket Americans are flying there to buy treatment.
Once we get majority of Americans on one public payer system we can dictate those doctors, hospitals, HMOs and layers on prices. IBM just fired the first shot. Every corporation in America will do the same.


Look, a liberal troll from Texas - And here I thought Texas had no liberals.
According to the board they are all in California.


Moron: We already have a public health system. All the public employees, those working for corporate leeches, those on welfare are all paid for by the gov't. Gov't money has driven care cost to triple those in Europe. Who is left uninsured, or paying huge sums out of pocket are the true private sector, workers, entrepreneurs at small businesses. Obamacare will do at least one thing right. Dictate prices to those hospitals, HMOs so they can't have their $20 million executive bonus .



If you think obamacare will fix anything that is wrong in our current healthcare system you are sadly wrong.
Obamacare isn't about fixing anything, it's about power and control by a central government.
Tough times breed strong people, Strong people create good times, Good times breed weak people, Weak people create tough times
sunspot
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:36:22 AM EST
I retired from Bell/at&t. It was known at that time that when you hit 65, you had to sign up for medicare as primary and the company insurance will be secondary.
Stevesc
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:39:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2013 8:44:07 AM EST by Stevesc]

Here is a comparison of healthcare cost US vs world.

http://qualityhealthcareplease.wordpress.com/2013/08/05/high-price-for-a-new-hip-charges-because-they-can/



We are getting ripped off by the current system. I know a lot of you are in the public sector have all med cost paid for by the Fed and support the current ways. The private sector is getting killed by healthcare cost in this country. American corporations have to compete worldwide. If you have to pay $7000 per employee health benefit, your competitor in ...say Belgium pays $2000. You are not going to compete. like what happened to GM.

We have the worst form of socialized medicine today. Gov't pays 60%+ all costs to what the providers demand. Obamacare could turn the table in time for gov't to dictate pricing. Bad for the doctors, HMO executives.
regalrocket
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:44:59 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Katara:
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
Originally Posted By centurion:
OP, we retired military people are not far behind. They will take our TRICARE health insurance within the the next two or three years and force us into OBAMACARE.

Is anyone on this board so naive that they don't think the plan is to force EVERYONE into OBAMACARE before the marxist-socialist motherfuckers are done?

So plan your retirement all you want, your government is going to fuck you.



I think that is absolutely horrible. If someone has served, that person and their spouse should have TRICARE until they die. They earned it. Why is that such a hard concept??


Service member, yes.

Dependant/dependants, no.
Deej86
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:47:03 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Stevesc:
Obamacare could turn the table in time for gov't to dictate pricing. Bad for the doctors, HMO executives.

Which is part of the problem.

Why do you think the older doctors are leaving in droves and that a lot of practices are turning to cash-only?

Think about that.

It's because these doctors do not eventually want to become slaves to the government, and do not eventually want to work for one client, that client being the government, and the government not paying.

Actually, go ask your doctor how their Medicare and Medicaid reimbursements are working out for them.
Many thanks to bigsapper!
"Jesus Christ, you really do remember everything."-Subnet, 1/20/08
Ah, Dafuq. Many fond memories of my time there, and in other battlegrounds around Iraq.- Sixtigers
DeltaElite777
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:48:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2013 8:51:27 AM EST by DeltaElite777]
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Stevesc:

Here is a comparison of healthcare cost US vs world.

http://qualityhealthcareplease.wordpress.com/2013/08/05/high-price-for-a-new-hip-charges-because-they-can/



We are getting ripped off by the current system. I know a lot of you are in the public sector have all med cost paid for by the Fed and support the current ways. The private sector is getting killed by healthcare cost in this country. American corporations have to compete worldwide. If you have to pay $7000 per employee health benefit, your competitor in ...say Belgium pays $2000. You are not going to compete. like what happened to GM.

We have the worst form of socialized medicine today. Gov't pays 60%+ all costs to what the providers demand. Obamacare could turn the table in time for gov't to dictate pricing. Bad for the doctors, HMO executives.


So corporations... and employers in general... need to get out of the "paying for healthcare" business. It was a stupid reaction to an even stupider socialist FDR policy that started us down this road in the first place.

Which brings me to my next point... the only group that should be paying for healthcare less than employers is the damn government. Take all of the problems and abuses of having healthcare employer-subsidized, multiply them by 87, and that's close to what you'll get with single-payer.

The feds dictated the price of gasoline back a few decades ago.... how did that work out?
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:49:50 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By regalrocket:
Originally Posted By Katara:
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
Originally Posted By centurion:
OP, we retired military people are not far behind. They will take our TRICARE health insurance within the the next two or three years and force us into OBAMACARE.

Is anyone on this board so naive that they don't think the plan is to force EVERYONE into OBAMACARE before the marxist-socialist motherfuckers are done?

So plan your retirement all you want, your government is going to fuck you.



I think that is absolutely horrible. If someone has served, that person and their spouse should have TRICARE until they die. They earned it. Why is that such a hard concept??


Service member, yes.

Dependant/dependants, no.


What percentage of today's service men and women actually see combat ? Most are desk jockeys, supply and support, do they deserve the same benefits ?


Just more public leeches.


USMC6177
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:57:07 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Stevesc:
Originally Posted By regalrocket:
Originally Posted By Katara:
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
Originally Posted By centurion:
OP, we retired military people are not far behind. They will take our TRICARE health insurance within the the next two or three years and force us into OBAMACARE.

Is anyone on this board so naive that they don't think the plan is to force EVERYONE into OBAMACARE before the marxist-socialist motherfuckers are done?

So plan your retirement all you want, your government is going to fuck you.



I think that is absolutely horrible. If someone has served, that person and their spouse should have TRICARE until they die. They earned it. Why is that such a hard concept??


Service member, yes.

Dependant/dependants, no.


What percentage of today's service men and women actually see combat ? Most are desk jockeys, supply and support, do they deserve the same benefits ?


Just more public leeches.



Quoted for posterity
I drink cheap beer, cheap wine, cheap liquor, and water out of the toilet if needs be. But i won't fucking touch aunt jemimah. And i won't let my kids either.---1969iggy
Deej86
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:57:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2013 8:58:44 AM EST by Deej86]
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Stevesc:


What percentage of today's service men and women actually see combat ? Most are desk jockeys, supply and support, do they deserve the same benefits ?


Just more public leeches.



You better believe if they signed up to serve their country they deserve the same benefits.
Many thanks to bigsapper!
"Jesus Christ, you really do remember everything."-Subnet, 1/20/08
Ah, Dafuq. Many fond memories of my time there, and in other battlegrounds around Iraq.- Sixtigers
Tango7
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:00:27 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Stevesc:
What percentage of today's service men and women actually see combat ? Most are desk jockeys, supply and support, do they deserve the same benefits ?


Just more public leeches.





BRB
You call an AR a weapon of war?

Honor your Oath and it won't become one.

Gun control requires so much faith in the face of statistics, data & history it should be a religion.
amos1909
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:01:32 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By raven:
I wish we could just discriminate on who voted for Obama and who didn't.

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 2:21
6winchester2
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:02:09 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Stevesc:
Originally Posted By regalrocket:
Originally Posted By Katara:
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
Originally Posted By centurion:
OP, we retired military people are not far behind. They will take our TRICARE health insurance within the the next two or three years and force us into OBAMACARE.

Is anyone on this board so naive that they don't think the plan is to force EVERYONE into OBAMACARE before the marxist-socialist motherfuckers are done?

So plan your retirement all you want, your government is going to fuck you.



I think that is absolutely horrible. If someone has served, that person and their spouse should have TRICARE until they die. They earned it. Why is that such a hard concept??


Service member, yes.

Dependant/dependants, no.


What percentage of today's service men and women actually see combat ? Most are desk jockeys, supply and support, do they deserve the same benefits ?


Just more public leeches.




WHAT THE FUCK?????
"The symbol on my holster is a chess knight, an attack piece, the most versatile on the board. It can move eight ways, over barriers, always unexpected." - Paladin, HG-WT.
USMC6177
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:02:23 AM EST
IBTL
I drink cheap beer, cheap wine, cheap liquor, and water out of the toilet if needs be. But i won't fucking touch aunt jemimah. And i won't let my kids either.---1969iggy
Deej86
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:03:31 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By USMC6177:
IBTL

I may have to pit this goof.
Many thanks to bigsapper!
"Jesus Christ, you really do remember everything."-Subnet, 1/20/08
Ah, Dafuq. Many fond memories of my time there, and in other battlegrounds around Iraq.- Sixtigers
Rich_V
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:05:00 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Tango7:
Originally Posted By Stevesc:
What percentage of today's service men and women actually see combat ? Most are desk jockeys, supply and support, do they deserve the same benefits ?


Just more public leeches.





BRB


translation?
Tough times breed strong people, Strong people create good times, Good times breed weak people, Weak people create tough times
Stevesc
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:06:05 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Deej86:
Originally Posted By Stevesc:
Obamacare could turn the table in time for gov't to dictate pricing. Bad for the doctors, HMO executives.

Which is part of the problem.

Why do you think the older doctors are leaving in droves and that a lot of practices are turning to cash-only?

Think about that.

It's because these doctors do not eventually want to become slaves to the government, and do not eventually want to work for one client, that client being the government, and the government not paying.

Actually, go ask your doctor how their Medicare and Medicaid reimbursements are working out for them.


They can certainly choose to quit, its a free country. The single payer system works quite well in Europe. Doctors and hospitals can still choose to go after private payers like American medical tourists. At one third to one quarter the American hospitals charges . Its free market.

http://qualityhealthcareplease.wordpress.com/2013/08/05/high-price-for-a-new-hip-charges-because-they-can/

Again, there is no reason American hospitals charge four time the money but for Federal dollar. The doctor you claim to be quitting is making many times more money than his European counterpart. He can opt out of it go for private payers. Its free market. He'd be making a fraction what he makes now .

6winchester2
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:06:16 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Rich_V:
Originally Posted By Tango7:
Originally Posted By Stevesc:
What percentage of today's service men and women actually see combat ? Most are desk jockeys, supply and support, do they deserve the same benefits ?


Just more public leeches.





BRB


translation?


Hopefully that means he went to get his biggest ban stick.
"The symbol on my holster is a chess knight, an attack piece, the most versatile on the board. It can move eight ways, over barriers, always unexpected." - Paladin, HG-WT.
DoubleARon
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:06:21 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Stevesc:
Originally Posted By regalrocket:
Originally Posted By Katara:
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
Originally Posted By centurion:
OP, we retired military people are not far behind. They will take our TRICARE health insurance within the the next two or three years and force us into OBAMACARE.

Is anyone on this board so naive that they don't think the plan is to force EVERYONE into OBAMACARE before the marxist-socialist motherfuckers are done?

So plan your retirement all you want, your government is going to fuck you.



I think that is absolutely horrible. If someone has served, that person and their spouse should have TRICARE until they die. They earned it. Why is that such a hard concept??


Service member, yes.

Dependant/dependants, no.


What percentage of today's service men and women actually see combat ? Most are desk jockeys, supply and support, do they deserve the same benefits ?


Just more public leeches.


Roadside IEDs kill a lot if supply and support personnel.
I killed a bacon puppy. :(
Deej86
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:08:06 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
Originally Posted By Rich_V:
Originally Posted By Tango7:
Originally Posted By Stevesc:
What percentage of today's service men and women actually see combat ? Most are desk jockeys, supply and support, do they deserve the same benefits ?


Just more public leeches.





BRB



translation?


Hopefully that means he went to get his biggest ban stick.

Damn, I just started a pit thread
Many thanks to bigsapper!
"Jesus Christ, you really do remember everything."-Subnet, 1/20/08
Ah, Dafuq. Many fond memories of my time there, and in other battlegrounds around Iraq.- Sixtigers
Deej86
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:09:04 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Stevesc:
Originally Posted By Deej86:
Originally Posted By Stevesc:
Obamacare could turn the table in time for gov't to dictate pricing. Bad for the doctors, HMO executives.

Which is part of the problem.

Why do you think the older doctors are leaving in droves and that a lot of practices are turning to cash-only?

Think about that.

It's because these doctors do not eventually want to become slaves to the government, and do not eventually want to work for one client, that client being the government, and the government not paying.

Actually, go ask your doctor how their Medicare and Medicaid reimbursements are working out for them.


They can certainly choose to quit, its a free country. The single payer system works quite well in Europe. Doctors and hospitals can still choose to go after private payers like American medical tourists. At one third to one quarter the American hospitals charges . Its free market.

http://qualityhealthcareplease.wordpress.com/2013/08/05/high-price-for-a-new-hip-charges-because-they-can/

Again, there is no reason American hospitals charge four time the money but for Federal dollar. The doctor you claim to be quitting is making many times more money than his European counterpart. He can opt out of it go for private payers. Its free market. He'd be making a fraction what he makes now .


You just don't get it, and the derp you posted about servicemen doesn't help either.
Many thanks to bigsapper!
"Jesus Christ, you really do remember everything."-Subnet, 1/20/08
Ah, Dafuq. Many fond memories of my time there, and in other battlegrounds around Iraq.- Sixtigers
Rich_V
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:09:10 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
Originally Posted By Rich_V:
Originally Posted By Tango7:
Originally Posted By Stevesc:
What percentage of today's service men and women actually see combat ? Most are desk jockeys, supply and support, do they deserve the same benefits ?


Just more public leeches.





BRB


translation?


Hopefully that means he went to get his biggest ban stick.


Yeah, he's in for some real tender loving with his attitude on service members.
Tough times breed strong people, Strong people create good times, Good times breed weak people, Weak people create tough times
TimeTraveler
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:10:25 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By centurion:
OP, we retired military people are not far behind. They will take our TRICARE health insurance within the the next two or three years and force us into OBAMACARE.

Is anyone on this board so naive that they don't think the plan is to force EVERYONE into OBAMACARE before the marxist-socialist motherfuckers are done?


Yep. You're right. They a forcing everyone into the single payer system within a few short years. Anyone who re-elects anyone is an idiot. We need to turn them all out. Even doing that may not change the system much, but it will punish the Reps. that are shoving this shitcare system on us.
FREEFALLE7
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:12:34 AM EST
IBM is still in business??

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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:13:36 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Rich_V:
Originally Posted By Tango7:
Originally Posted By Stevesc:
What percentage of today's service men and women actually see combat ? Most are desk jockeys, supply and support, do they deserve the same benefits ?


Just more public leeches.





BRB


translation?
release the Nor-Cal I suppose

this guy has to be a retread
Originally Posted By Depidy_Dawg:
"Can I keep the flashlight?"
motown_steve
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:15:05 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
Originally Posted By Macker13:
Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Do you guys not understand that the biggest proponents of Socialized Medicine were big business? As far back as Hillary's first attempt at Hillary Care, GM and Ford where right there with her.

Obamacare is a windfall for big business.


How is it going to be a windfall for big business when the standard of living for the average American working or middle class person has been reduced, and they are therefore not able to purchase as many
goods or services from said big businesses as they formerly did?

Internatiionally, I don't know, maybe.

In terms of the domestic economy, decreasing the purchasing power (and reducing the standard of living) for the average American is NOT a "windfall for big business."
More value to shareholders if they spend less on employee benefits, they have more profit. In a global economy nobody in business worries about middle class buying power, that stopped a long time ago. If somebody in the middle class wants more buying power, they need to improve their job status and make more money, you hear it in GD all the time. No different than pensions.


Let me ask you a simple question:

Do you honestly believe that taking more money out of the pockets of private American citizens, and giving it to the government instead, is going to create wealth and long term value for corporate shareholders?

I'm not talking about short term, end of quarter or end of fiscal year gains to be made by cutting pension or medical benefits to make the annual report to shareholders look rosy.

I'm talking about whether or not you believe that increasing the size and power of government creates wealth in the private sector, or reduces it.

Execs rarely think that past this quarter and when they do it almost never goes past the current FY.
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Iram
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:17:54 AM EST
Given the recent layoffs at IBM, I can't say I'm surprised.

Mandatory disclaimer:
The postings on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent IBM's positions, strategies or opinions.
Merrell
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:18:08 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By ShadowAngel:
AARP is going to regret backing Obama.


AARP is an insurance company shell and politically active shill.

They have laid down with dogs from Day 1.


I may or may not be a member, and would encourage EVERYONE over 50 to become a member, but never by paying for it.

Walgreens and other outfits regularly have deals where you can get a free AARP membership.

Sign up, and cheerfully trash everything they send you. Or return the prepaid envelopes empty or filled with Publisher's Clearing House crap. Or sign up senile politicians. Hours of entertainment.

Not a lot smarter but another year old...
Merrell
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:19:39 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Stevesc:
What percentage of today's service men and women actually see combat ? Most are desk jockeys, supply and support, do they deserve the same benefits ?

Just more public leeches.


Logistics win wars, Einstein.

And with that *click* *poof*
Not a lot smarter but another year old...
KILLERB6
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:19:52 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Stevesc:
Originally Posted By regalrocket:
Originally Posted By Katara:
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
Originally Posted By centurion:
OP, we retired military people are not far behind. They will take our TRICARE health insurance within the the next two or three years and force us into OBAMACARE.

Is anyone on this board so naive that they don't think the plan is to force EVERYONE into OBAMACARE before the marxist-socialist motherfuckers are done?

So plan your retirement all you want, your government is going to fuck you.



I think that is absolutely horrible. If someone has served, that person and their spouse should have TRICARE until they die. They earned it. Why is that such a hard concept??


Service member, yes.

Dependant/dependants, no.


What percentage of today's service men and women actually see combat ? Most are desk jockeys, supply and support, do they deserve the same benefits ?


Just more public leeches.




And we're off!!!
motown_steve
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:19:53 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Do you guys not understand that the biggest proponents of Socialized Medicine were big business? As far back as Hillary's first attempt at Hillary Care, GM and Ford where right there with her.

Obamacare is a windfall for big business.


How is it going to be a windfall for big business when the standard of living for the average American working or middle class person has been reduced, and they are therefore not able to purchase as many
goods or services from said big businesses as they formerly did?

Internatiionally, I don't know, maybe.

In terms of the domestic economy, decreasing the purchasing power (and reducing the standard of living) for the average American is NOT a "windfall for big business."


ibm doesn't give 2 shits about the consumer market. they 100% cater to corporate customers. they don't even exist in the consumer market anymore.


That hardly applies to GM and Ford though.




Consumer buying power is extended by credit and bolstered by bailouts.

GM and Ford have the UAW bankrupting them with increasing pressure on medical, dental and retirement benefits. They literally feel that they needed socialized medicine to stay afloat. Don't forget that I lived in Detroit and worked in and around the industry. I know what the rhetoric was locally from the unions and from the Big Three and for the auto makers is was a cycle of short changing the company's future to pay for aging union workers.
"Do not be fooled by a belief that leftists hate guns. Oh, no, they do not...they hate guns in the hands of those whom they have slated for a barrel to the back of the ear."

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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:20:23 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Stevesc:
Originally Posted By LurchAddams:
IBM is dumping retirees into the health insurance exchanges.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/07/ibm-to-move-retirees-off-health-plan/


Good news in disguise. The healthcare system is broken. Cost of care is triple what it should cost in free market. You can buy the same surgery in Europe for 1/3 the cost here. Out of pocket Americans are flying there to buy treatment.

Once we get majority of Americans on one public payer system we can dictate those doctors, hospitals, HMOs and layers on prices. IBM just fired the first shot. Every corporation in America will do the same.


Time for doctors to start taking a paycut
Iram
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:20:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2013 9:29:37 AM EST by Iram]
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Just saw that.

This is not good news.




IBM has been trying to do this for years. it started long before i left.

IBM routinely shits on it's employees. they are infamous for canning people within a few months of retirement.


I am surprised there haven't been a few post canning disgruntled people massacres at IBM central HQ.


That's a scarey thought, given most IBM facilities are a gun-free zone. Maybe I should work from home for a few days after the news hits...

EDIT:
Mandatory disclaimer:
The postings on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent IBM's positions, strategies or opinions.
Merrell
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:20:53 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
IBM is still in business??



Are they involved with the NSA & Utah?

I hope so.

We may see a wave of gray Snowdens.

Not a lot smarter but another year old...
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:28:11 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
Originally Posted By Macker13:
Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Do you guys not understand that the biggest proponents of Socialized Medicine were big business? As far back as Hillary's first attempt at Hillary Care, GM and Ford where right there with her.

Obamacare is a windfall for big business.


How is it going to be a windfall for big business when the standard of living for the average American working or middle class person has been reduced, and they are therefore not able to purchase as many
goods or services from said big businesses as they formerly did?

Internatiionally, I don't know, maybe.

In terms of the domestic economy, decreasing the purchasing power (and reducing the standard of living) for the average American is NOT a "windfall for big business."
More value to shareholders if they spend less on employee benefits, they have more profit. In a global economy nobody in business worries about middle class buying power, that stopped a long time ago. If somebody in the middle class wants more buying power, they need to improve their job status and make more money, you hear it in GD all the time. No different than pensions.


Let me ask you a simple question:

Do you honestly believe that taking more money out of the pockets of private American citizens, and giving it to the government instead, is going to create wealth and long term value for corporate shareholders?

I'm not talking about short term, end of quarter or end of fiscal year gains to be made by cutting pension or medical benefits to make the annual report to shareholders look rosy.

I'm talking about whether or not you believe that increasing the size and power of government creates wealth in the private sector, or reduces it.



It doesn't, but that's not the point.

Whatever it takes to make the books look better than last quarter is as far as Corporate America's vision. They've pretty much proven they can get their way with the.gov and fuck the citizen any way they want to.
Aiden
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:28:49 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Stevesc:
Originally Posted By regalrocket:
Originally Posted By Katara:
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
Originally Posted By centurion:
OP, we retired military people are not far behind. They will take our TRICARE health insurance within the the next two or three years and force us into OBAMACARE.

Is anyone on this board so naive that they don't think the plan is to force EVERYONE into OBAMACARE before the marxist-socialist motherfuckers are done?

So plan your retirement all you want, your government is going to fuck you.



I think that is absolutely horrible. If someone has served, that person and their spouse should have TRICARE until they die. They earned it. Why is that such a hard concept??


Service member, yes.

Dependant/dependants, no.


What percentage of today's service men and women actually see combat ? Most are desk jockeys, supply and support, do they deserve the same benefits ?


Just more public leeches.




Wait, what?
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
In a full length gown, I’ll usually carry in either a thigh or ankle holster depending on the cut. For a knee length dress I’ll use a thigh holster.
Iram
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:31:06 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Merrell:
Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
IBM is still in business??



Are they involved with the NSA & Utah?

I hope so.

We may see a wave of gray Snowdens.



I'd be surprised of IBM doesn't do some business with the NSA, but I really doubt there will be people willing to commit treason (at least in the eyes of this government) over retiree healthcare.

EDIT:
Mandatory disclaimer:
The postings on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent IBM's positions, strategies or opinions.
Deej86
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:35:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2013 9:43:03 AM EST by Deej86]
Edited because the big boss has spoken
Many thanks to bigsapper!
"Jesus Christ, you really do remember everything."-Subnet, 1/20/08
Ah, Dafuq. Many fond memories of my time there, and in other battlegrounds around Iraq.- Sixtigers
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:38:24 AM EST
IBM's a leader in screwing their employees....
I'm No FUDD! You Silly Wabbits!
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:41:20 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Stevesc:

What percentage of today's service men and women actually see combat ? Most are desk jockeys, supply and support, do they deserve the same benefits ?


Just more public leeches.



I think you have some "splaining" to do : http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_130/1529903_.html&page=1&anc=42594204#i42594204

That is one hell of a stupid comment to make about our troops.


No Apology is necessary among friends
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:44:26 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By caduckgunner:
Elections have consequences.

this
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.

George S. Patton
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:47:31 AM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By LurchAddams:
Originally Posted By centurion:
OP, we retired military people are not far behind. They will take our TRICARE health insurance within the the next two or three years and force us into OBAMACARE.

Is anyone on this board so naive that they don't think the plan is to force EVERYONE into OBAMACARE before the marxist-socialist motherfuckers are done?

You are right, sir.


and the incoming administration better reverse all this shit or they will be in peril. How are we letting this POS get away with this shit?
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.

George S. Patton
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:49:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2013 9:50:54 AM EST by phoen1x]
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By centurion:
OP, we retired military people are not far behind. They will take our TRICARE health insurance within the the next two or three years and force us into OBAMACARE.

Is anyone on this board so naive that they don't think the plan is to force EVERYONE into OBAMACARE before the marxist-socialist motherfuckers are done?


QFT. Everyone will be forced into the single payer system that they want. Except the really wealth or connected who will simply ignore and litigate the problem or leave the USA all together.

Next will be to drive private insurance companies out of business.

BTW IBM is leaving the USA. They see what is going on and they are leaving. There will be no announcement. They will just be gone.
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:53:48 AM EST
We all saw this coming from miles away..
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