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Posted: 9/1/2013 3:56:00 AM EST
13/14 November a North America wide /drill/exercise will take place to test responses to cyber attack/EMP grid knock out. Think they're concerned someone might flip off the lights? http://www.spp.org/publications/13%20-%20CIPC%20Brief%20%28Harrell%20Conway%20Ma­r%202013%29%20V2.pdf

"thousands of utility workers, business executives, National Guard officers, F.B.I. antiterrorism experts and officials from government agencies in the United States, Canada and Mexico are preparing for an emergency drill in November that will simulate physical attacks and cyber attacks that could take down large sections of the power grid"... Remember the Boston Lockdown after the Marathon!

Maybe they're finally taking some advise from James Woolsey? What would American youth do without their smart phones, text messaging? Few of us are against exercises, but given that the powers whom be in DC and all that has been done to usurp and abuse our Charters of Freedoms since 9/11/01, but especially in last 5 yrs, exactly what is the COG plan for the US? Does even local Law enforcement know?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/17/us/as-worries-over-the-power-grid-rise-a-drill-will-simulate-a-knockout-blow.html
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Posted: 9/1/2013 4:06:24 AM EST
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to trust the government not to abuse the skills learned in such a drill? Sadly we'll probably never know.


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Posted: 9/1/2013 4:20:47 AM EST
I'm glad they're this proactive. Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance
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Posted: 9/1/2013 4:23:48 AM EST
I'll make sure to open the breaker at our plant just to add some realism to the drill.


j/k NSA, FBI, DHS and the rest of you guys listening in out there.
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Posted: 9/1/2013 4:24:54 AM EST
I don't know........... But all you guys with battery operated sights better start practicing with your irons..
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Posted: 9/1/2013 4:27:07 AM EST
If you think the Chinese, Russians or North Koreans are a threat imagine what a mob of teenage, menstruating high school girls who cant text would be like. Bring it on North Korea..
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Posted: 9/1/2013 4:27:57 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Nichonator:
I don't know........... But all you guys with battery operated sights better start practicing with your irons..
View Quote



Or stock up on batteries. Wait, how about a solar charger.
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Posted: 9/1/2013 4:28:12 AM EST
Two handed sword:

1. Power goes out. Dear Leader's government messages go away.

2. People are pissed. Turn out the lights so they can't organize and pose a threat.
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Posted: 9/1/2013 4:31:17 AM EST

It seems like everytime they runs the disaster scenarios they magically become reality.

I would not be surprised.

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Posted: 9/1/2013 4:40:39 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Federov:
Two handed sword:

1. Power goes out. Dear Leader's government messages go away.

2. People are pissed. Turn out the lights so they can't organize and pose a threat.
View Quote

two handed? English your second language?
Sure, you can have them all. One round at a time.

Legally wrong, ethically questionable, but tactically correct.
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Posted: 9/1/2013 4:52:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2013 4:52:25 AM EST by mongo001]
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Originally Posted By SIRIUS1:

It seems like everytime they runs the disaster scenarios they magically become reality.

I would not be surprised.

View Quote



Wasn't there some type of exercise or drill on or near 9/11/2001 loosely related to the actual incident?
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Posted: 9/1/2013 4:57:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2013 5:00:08 AM EST by Spata]
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Originally Posted By mongo001:



Wasn't there some type of exercise or drill on or near 9/11/2001 loosely related to the actual incident?
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Originally Posted By mongo001:
Originally Posted By SIRIUS1:

It seems like everytime they runs the disaster scenarios they magically become reality.

I would not be surprised.




Wasn't there some type of exercise or drill on or near 9/11/2001 loosely related to the actual incident?


Yes, they were running a drill were a terrorist took control of a plane and crashed it into a building. They were also doing a drill during the boston marathon and we all know how that worked out.

Eta: they were also running a mass casualty drill in texas when that fertilizer plant exploded.
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Posted: 9/1/2013 5:01:05 AM EST
Google found Vigilant Guardian as the name of the exercise being run on or near 9/11. Russian bomber coming out of the north or something like that.
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Posted: 9/1/2013 5:17:20 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Federov:
Two handed sword:

1. Power goes out. Dear Leader's government messages go away.

2. People are pissed. Turn out the lights so they can't organize and pose a threat.
View Quote


You write like English is a second language. Are you an FSB troll
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Posted: 9/1/2013 5:17:22 AM EST
Honestly I think it might be quite interesting to see them do the drill for real. Cut the power to the whole country for a day or two. Give notice to emergency services such as hospitals and fire depts so that they can have generators and fuel in place and stay operational. Let everyone else discover how fucking unprepared they are.
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Posted: 9/1/2013 5:27:43 AM EST
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Originally Posted By chrtra1:
Honestly I think it might be quite interesting to see them do the drill for real. Cut the power to the whole country for a day or two. Give notice to emergency services such as hospitals and fire depts so that they can have generators and fuel in place and stay operational. Let everyone else discover how fucking unprepared they are.
View Quote

That's as dumb of an idea as the Purge. For millions, when the lights go out, they will never come on again.
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Posted: 9/1/2013 5:27:43 AM EST
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Originally Posted By mongo001:



Or stock up on batteries. Wait, how about a solar charger.
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Originally Posted By mongo001:
Originally Posted By Nichonator:
I don't know........... But all you guys with battery operated sights better start practicing with your irons..



Or stock up on batteries. Wait, how about a solar charger.



I have both. A stock of 123s and a stock of 123 rechargables with solar chargers and wall chargers.
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Posted: 9/1/2013 5:29:03 AM EST
Exercises are done constantly.
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Posted: 9/1/2013 5:41:24 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Nichonator:
I don't know........... But all you guys with battery operated sights better start practicing with your irons..
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Posted: 9/1/2013 5:43:07 AM EST
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Originally Posted By M4Real:

ACOG FTW!!
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Originally Posted By M4Real:
Originally Posted By Nichonator:
I don't know........... But all you guys with battery operated sights better start practicing with your irons..

ACOG FTW!!

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Posted: 9/1/2013 5:50:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2013 5:50:59 AM EST by Recusance]
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Originally Posted By iwouldntknow:
I'm glad they're this proactive. Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance
View Quote

Oh they'll play and war game. and find out exactly what we already know.

The grid is fragile, overloaded, with too few spare parts spread out over remote territory that in some places is extremely difficult to get to in deep winter.

They will conclude that the grid must be rebuilt, redesigned and modernized.

The cost will be in the trillions.

The conclusions and plans will be shelved.

The results locked away for national security, and no one will ever hear about it again.

Waste of money.
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Posted: 9/1/2013 6:09:54 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Recusance:

Oh they'll play and war game. and find out exactly what we already know.

The grid is fragile, overloaded, with too few spare parts spread out over remote territory that in some places is extremely difficult to get to in deep winter.

They will conclude that the grid must be rebuilt, redesigned and modernized.

The cost will be in the trillions.

The conclusions and plans will be shelved.

The results locked away for national security, and no one will ever hear about it again.

Waste of money.
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Originally Posted By Recusance:
Originally Posted By iwouldntknow:
I'm glad they're this proactive. Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

Oh they'll play and war game. and find out exactly what we already know.

The grid is fragile, overloaded, with too few spare parts spread out over remote territory that in some places is extremely difficult to get to in deep winter.

They will conclude that the grid must be rebuilt, redesigned and modernized.

The cost will be in the trillions.

The conclusions and plans will be shelved.

The results locked away for national security, and no one will ever hear about it again.

Waste of money.


Actually the North American grid is actually pretty robust considering its age. I'm not talking about the underlying residential stuff but the transmission status as a whole is doing just fine. With the 765 and 500 kv that is found in the eastern interconnection serving as the backbone, the underlying 345, 230 and 115 is very capable. These drills get done all the time, not just when a gov't entity wants it done. We are constantly doing some type of emergency procedure drill in order to keep transmission operators and generator operators prepared. I am sure that I will somehow be involved in this upcoming drill that is organized by NERC.

I by no means am saying that something like this cannot happen. It has in the past. It certainly can in the future. But its a little harder than one would think.
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Posted: 9/1/2013 6:16:39 AM EST
http://www.ferc.gov/EventCalendar/Files/20040915141105-blackout.pdf
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Posted: 9/1/2013 6:17:06 AM EST
I was shocked to see that my lowly county EOC has a comms room that is a big faraday cage and a second set of portable radio hardware in a second faraday cage inside that room.

The current everyday 800mhz emergency services radio system continues to suck though
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Posted: 9/1/2013 6:18:01 AM EST
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Originally Posted By mcflyin:


Actually the North American grid is actually pretty robust considering its age. I'm not talking about the underlying residential stuff but the transmission status as a whole is doing just fine. With the 765 and 500 kv that is found in the eastern interconnection serving as the backbone, the underlying 345, 230 and 115 is very capable. These drills get done all the time, not just when a gov't entity wants it done. We are constantly doing some type of emergency procedure drill in order to keep transmission operators and generator operators prepared. I am sure that I will somehow be involved in this upcoming drill that is organized by NERC.

I by no means am saying that something like this cannot happen. It has in the past. It certainly can in the future. But its a little harder than one would think.
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Originally Posted By mcflyin:
Originally Posted By Recusance:
Originally Posted By iwouldntknow:
I'm glad they're this proactive. Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

Oh they'll play and war game. and find out exactly what we already know.

The grid is fragile, overloaded, with too few spare parts spread out over remote territory that in some places is extremely difficult to get to in deep winter.

They will conclude that the grid must be rebuilt, redesigned and modernized.

The cost will be in the trillions.

The conclusions and plans will be shelved.

The results locked away for national security, and no one will ever hear about it again.

Waste of money.


Actually the North American grid is actually pretty robust considering its age. I'm not talking about the underlying residential stuff but the transmission status as a whole is doing just fine. With the 765 and 500 kv that is found in the eastern interconnection serving as the backbone, the underlying 345, 230 and 115 is very capable. These drills get done all the time, not just when a gov't entity wants it done. We are constantly doing some type of emergency procedure drill in order to keep transmission operators and generator operators prepared. I am sure that I will somehow be involved in this upcoming drill that is organized by NERC.

I by no means am saying that something like this cannot happen. It has in the past. It certainly can in the future. But its a little harder than one would think.

So robust in fact that when a single tree hits a residential feeder line in northern Ohio, it blacks out the northern quarter of the United States for almost a week.
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Posted: 9/1/2013 6:20:56 AM EST
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Originally Posted By mcflyin:

Actually the North American grid is actually pretty robust considering its age. I'm not talking about the underlying residential stuff but the transmission status as a whole is doing just fine. With the 765 and 500 kv that is found in the eastern interconnection serving as the backbone, the underlying 345, 230 and 115 is very capable. These drills get done all the time, not just when a gov't entity wants it done. We are constantly doing some type of emergency procedure drill in order to keep transmission operators and generator operators prepared. I am sure that I will somehow be involved in this upcoming drill that is organized by NERC.

I by no means am saying that something like this cannot happen. It has in the past. It certainly can in the future. But its a little harder than one would think.
View Quote


I got stuck on a ride at Cedar Point during the 2003 Blackout. When I got home 5 hours later than it should have taken me to get there I was told by my FD we needed people to go to Cleveland with our small town FD tanker trucks because municipal water in Cleveland was down and they couldn't fight fire.

Real SHTF eye opener.
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Posted: 9/1/2013 6:22:57 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Recusance:

So robust in fact that when a single tree hits a residential feeder line in northern Ohio, it blacks out the northern quarter of the United States for almost a week.
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Originally Posted By Recusance:
Originally Posted By mcflyin:
Originally Posted By Recusance:
Originally Posted By iwouldntknow:
I'm glad they're this proactive. Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

Oh they'll play and war game. and find out exactly what we already know.

The grid is fragile, overloaded, with too few spare parts spread out over remote territory that in some places is extremely difficult to get to in deep winter.

They will conclude that the grid must be rebuilt, redesigned and modernized.

The cost will be in the trillions.

The conclusions and plans will be shelved.

The results locked away for national security, and no one will ever hear about it again.

Waste of money.


Actually the North American grid is actually pretty robust considering its age. I'm not talking about the underlying residential stuff but the transmission status as a whole is doing just fine. With the 765 and 500 kv that is found in the eastern interconnection serving as the backbone, the underlying 345, 230 and 115 is very capable. These drills get done all the time, not just when a gov't entity wants it done. We are constantly doing some type of emergency procedure drill in order to keep transmission operators and generator operators prepared. I am sure that I will somehow be involved in this upcoming drill that is organized by NERC.

I by no means am saying that something like this cannot happen. It has in the past. It certainly can in the future. But its a little harder than one would think.

So robust in fact that when a single tree hits a residential feeder line in northern Ohio, it blacks out the northern quarter of the United States for almost a week.


I knew that was going to come into play

There were alot of underlying issues with that instance. Like I said before, not saying it cant happen. Look at Hurricane Sandy. A huge percentage of lines were tripping like crazy. Did it take down the grid? Generators were tripping offline during the storm because they were literally under water.
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Posted: 9/1/2013 6:23:55 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Mach:



I have both. A stock of 123s and a stock of 123 rechargables with solar chargers and wall chargers.
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Originally Posted By Mach:
Originally Posted By mongo001:
Originally Posted By Nichonator:
I don't know........... But all you guys with battery operated sights better start practicing with your irons..



Or stock up on batteries. Wait, how about a solar charger.



I have both. A stock of 123s and a stock of 123 rechargables with solar chargers and wall chargers.

The thinking is that in the event of an EMP the electronics in your battery operated sights along with every thing
else will be fried. A stack of batteries won't matter. THat said there is plenty of opinion that small electronic
devices should be fine, it's the grid and mega transformers that will take the hit. Transformers that would take years and years
to build and replace.

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Posted: 9/1/2013 6:25:53 AM EST
What if all men between the ages of 18 through 45 started drilling on a regular basis for such emergencies as well. I'm not talking about a thousands, I'm talking millions across the nation of citizens- preparing for perhaps the "collapsed government" scenario.

That is what we are supposed to be doing, not giving them all the power to destroy us.
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Posted: 9/1/2013 6:28:34 AM EST
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Originally Posted By RetroRevolver77:
What if all men between the ages of 18 through 45 started drilling on a regular basis for such emergencies as well. I'm not talking about a thousands, I'm talking millions across the nation of citizens- preparing for perhaps the "collapsed government" scenario.

That is what we are supposed to be doing, not giving them all the power to destroy us.
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You must cut to cure.

We have a lot of cancer in this country. it must be cut out before we can heal.
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Posted: 9/1/2013 6:33:24 AM EST
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Originally Posted By 8nbait:

The thinking is that in the event of an EMP the electronics in your battery operated sights along with every thing
else will be fried. A stack of batteries won't matter. THat said there is plenty of opinion that small electronic
devices should be fine, it's the grid and mega transformers that will take the hit. Transformers that would take years and years
to build and replace.

8nBAIT
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Originally Posted By 8nbait:
Originally Posted By Mach:
Originally Posted By mongo001:
Originally Posted By Nichonator:
I don't know........... But all you guys with battery operated sights better start practicing with your irons..



Or stock up on batteries. Wait, how about a solar charger.



I have both. A stock of 123s and a stock of 123 rechargables with solar chargers and wall chargers.

The thinking is that in the event of an EMP the electronics in your battery operated sights along with every thing
else will be fried. A stack of batteries won't matter. THat said there is plenty of opinion that small electronic
devices should be fine, it's the grid and mega transformers that will take the hit. Transformers that would take years and years
to build and replace.

8nBAIT

That's what I was getting to in my post above.

Transmission lines will act as huge conductors of EMP pulse and esplode teh transformers in a huge radius.

America does not stockpile transformers an in fact gets them from foreign sources on a just in time delivery status.

IF (if) we ever get hit with a large scale EMP, whether solar or nuclear, America will be dark in large areas for a long time. And the natives will get extremely uppity during that time.
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Posted: 9/1/2013 6:36:34 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Mach:
Exercises are done constantly.
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So the odds are relatively high that you could tie any given event to a similar exercise.
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Posted: 9/1/2013 6:38:28 AM EST
I live in Nola and can tell you from experience the grid, at least OUR grid, isn't up to par. Last hurricane season we had a little piss-ant storm named Isaac come through. Barely even a Cat 1 hurricane, knocked out electricity and comms to 80 percent of the whole greater Nola area for 1 week and up to 2 weeks for 40 percent of affected areas. It was a display of incompetence and unpreparedness on epic levels.

The recovery, utilities, was private sector. I could only imagine what kind of clusterfuck it would be if gov were in charge.
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Posted: 9/1/2013 6:47:40 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Recusance:

That's what I was getting to in my post above.

Transmission lines will act as huge conductors of EMP pulse and esplode teh transformers in a huge radius.

America does not stockpile transformers an in fact gets them from foreign sources on a just in time delivery status.

IF (if) we ever get hit with a large scale EMP, whether solar or nuclear, America will be dark in large areas for a long time. And the natives will get extremely uppity during that time.
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Originally Posted By Recusance:
Originally Posted By 8nbait:
Originally Posted By Mach:
Originally Posted By mongo001:
Originally Posted By Nichonator:
I don't know........... But all you guys with battery operated sights better start practicing with your irons..



Or stock up on batteries. Wait, how about a solar charger.



I have both. A stock of 123s and a stock of 123 rechargables with solar chargers and wall chargers.

The thinking is that in the event of an EMP the electronics in your battery operated sights along with every thing
else will be fried. A stack of batteries won't matter. THat said there is plenty of opinion that small electronic
devices should be fine, it's the grid and mega transformers that will take the hit. Transformers that would take years and years
to build and replace.

8nBAIT

That's what I was getting to in my post above.

Transmission lines will act as huge conductors of EMP pulse and esplode teh transformers in a huge radius.

America does not stockpile transformers an in fact gets them from foreign sources on a just in time delivery status.

IF (if) we ever get hit with a large scale EMP, whether solar or nuclear, America will be dark in large areas for a long time. And the natives will get extremely uppity during that time.


I do agree with your EMP thoughts though. Transformers for the larger voltages are extremely hard to come by. There are no "spares" lying around. There are procedures in place for Solar Magnetic Disturbances when Solar Flares are predicted. Alot of the procedures deal operating in conservative operations in order to reduce loading on the transformers.
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Posted: 9/1/2013 7:03:25 AM EST
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Originally Posted By 8nbait:


The thinking is that in the event of an EMP the electronics in your battery operated sights along with every thing
else will be fried. A stack of batteries won't matter. THat said there is plenty of opinion that small electronic
devices should be fine, it's the grid and mega transformers that will take the hit. Transformers that would take years and years
to build and replace.

8nBAIT
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Originally Posted By 8nbait:
Originally Posted By Mach:
Originally Posted By mongo001:
Originally Posted By Nichonator:
I don't know........... But all you guys with battery operated sights better start practicing with your irons..



Or stock up on batteries. Wait, how about a solar charger.



I have both. A stock of 123s and a stock of 123 rechargables with solar chargers and wall chargers.


The thinking is that in the event of an EMP the electronics in your battery operated sights along with every thing
else will be fried. A stack of batteries won't matter. THat said there is plenty of opinion that small electronic
devices should be fine, it's the grid and mega transformers that will take the hit. Transformers that would take years and years
to build and replace.

8nBAIT


Not when it sits in my grounded faraday cage called a safe.

But this article is not about EMP, it is about the grid being down due to conventional attacks on the grid.
Mach

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Posted: 9/1/2013 7:06:07 AM EST
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Originally Posted By mongo001:



So the odds are relatively high that you could tie any given event to a similar exercise.
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Originally Posted By mongo001:
Originally Posted By Mach:
Exercises are done constantly.



So the odds are relatively high that you could tie any given event to a similar exercise.


Yes, and the exercise underway when 911 happened was about soviet bombers coming across the pole. A similiar exercise happens several times per year.

It had nothing to do with planes hitting buildings.
Mach

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Posted: 9/1/2013 7:52:25 AM EST
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Originally Posted By jdessell:
I live in Nola and can tell you from experience the grid, at least OUR grid, isn't up to par. Last hurricane season we had a little piss-ant storm named Isaac come through. Barely even a Cat 1 hurricane, knocked out electricity and comms to 80 percent of the whole greater Nola area for 1 week and up to 2 weeks for 40 percent of affected areas. It was a display of incompetence and unpreparedness on epic levels.

The recovery, utilities, was private sector. I could only imagine what kind of clusterfuck it would be if gov were in charge.
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Entergy's response to the storm was actually record breaking and they were commended by the DOE for that record breaking performance, people just have unrealistic expectations. You can read the DOE report online and see how much faster the restoration of power was compared to other major outages. Your numbers are also incorrect and if you live in NOLA you may have had extra delays because of the dumb fucks who decided to threaten workers and throw eggs and rocks at them, only in N.O.

"The typical benchmark for utility companies is to restore power to 70 percent of customers within five to seven days. The pace of Entergy's restoration, restoring power to 90 percent of its customers in four to five days, is unbelievable," said William Bryan, deputy assistant secretary for infrastructure security and energy restoration.
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