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AssaultRifler
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Posted: 8/18/2013 9:43:53 PM

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
The AK-47 is on the list, the M16/AR15 isn't


http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2013/08/15/12-Weapons-That-Changed-Everything.aspx#page1

By JOSH HERR, The Fiscal Times
August 15, 2013

As the battle over gun rights in America reaches more and more baroque levels it’s easy to lose track of how we got here.

Weaponry and war has been a concern for humanity from its very earliest days. Empires from Greece, Rome and Persia to Napoleonic France and Colonial England have all been built on a backbone of superior firepower. From Roman’s peasants fearing Hannibal’s elephants to Irish farmers dreading the site of Viking warships on the horizon, from Paul Revere’s "The British are coming!” to the 1950’s "Duck and Cover” drills, weaponry has haunted our nightmares for as long as it’s fueled the dreams of boys and conquerors.


The right of protection against tyranny was so important to our founding fathers that they included it as the Second Amendment to the Constitution. This debate still rages, as we weigh the costs of our gun culture against this principle. Technology, as always, drives innovation. And that is just as true with weapons as it is with the Internet.

Just as there is a through line that stretches from the Sears catalog to Amazon.com, there is an equally clear line from the sword to the predator drone.
<snip>
"Act like a thug die like one!"

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DK-Prof
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Posted: 8/18/2013 9:45:10 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
The AK-47 is on the list, the M16/AR15 isn't



lol
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Bedouin2W
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Posted: 8/18/2013 9:46:00 PM
First weapon to go in a trash can, CHANGES EVERYTHING!
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M15A2
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Posted: 8/18/2013 9:46:11 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
The AK-47 is on the list, the M16/AR15 isn't


Because its a list of outdated weapons
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat. ~ Ronald Reagan
SouthEndXGF
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Posted: 8/18/2013 9:46:29 PM
What? NO JUDGE???

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Posted: 8/18/2013 9:50:45 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
...the M16/AR15 isn't


God isn't real, drugs should be legal.
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Posted: 8/18/2013 9:51:30 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
The AK-47 is on the list, the M16/AR15 isn't


Considering the article author's ignorance, I'm not surprised.

Technically called the “Automat Kalashnikova – 47,” the AK was everything its American counterpart the M-16 was not -- cheap, easy to manufacture, reliable and accurate, and it didn’t hurt that it just looked cooler.
Bedouin2W
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Posted: 8/18/2013 9:56:24 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By kitwulfen:
Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
The AK-47 is on the list, the M16/AR15 isn't


Considering the article author's ignorance, I'm not surprised.

Technically called the “Automat Kalashnikova – 47,” the AK was everything its American counterpart the M-16 was not -- cheap, easy to manufacture, reliable and accurate, and it didn’t hurt that it just looked cooler.


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evilbaxter101
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Posted: 8/18/2013 10:02:01 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
The AK-47 is on the list, the M16/AR15 isn't


In before Rusted_Ace gets here and the sure to be civil conversation regarding the article.
6winchester2
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Posted: 8/18/2013 10:02:52 PM
[Last Edit: 8/18/2013 10:06:11 PM by 6winchester2]
I always consult "The Fiscal Times" when forming my opinions about history making weaponry.

Especially an idiot who describes the M-16 family as not "accurate" as compared to the AK.
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Posted: 8/18/2013 10:03:15 PM
Bone
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Nagewaza624
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Posted: 8/18/2013 10:04:17 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:
Originally Posted By kitwulfen:
Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
The AK-47 is on the list, the M16/AR15 isn't


Considering the article author's ignorance, I'm not surprised.

Technically called the “Automat Kalashnikova – 47,” the AK was everything its American counterpart the M-16 was not -- cheap, easy to manufacture, reliable and accurate, and it didn’t hurt that it just looked cooler.





I guess it depends on your definition of "accurate" is.

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Posted: 8/18/2013 10:04:18 PM
The minie gun wasn't proven in the American Civil War. It was proven during the Crimean War and later the Sepoy Mutiny. The American Civil War proved the viability of the breechloader and repeater.

I think the aeroplane is the other weapon system that was overlooked. I'd take out #1 Club in favor of the influence of airpower. Airpower made behind the lines airdrops possible. It made the battleship obsolete (sorry, while the submarine was a big threat to the big ships, even the submarines were vulnerable to the aeroplane).
HUMONGO
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Posted: 8/18/2013 10:08:39 PM
"Changed" is past tense. M16s are "changing" the world as we speak
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Posted: 8/18/2013 10:15:35 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By M15A2:
Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
The AK-47 is on the list, the M16/AR15 isn't


Because its a list of outdated weapons



This is true, and as bad as the article is... the AK did change everything - the AR type rifle was a response to it, a refinement of the idea of a high-capacity intermediate power carbine.
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Posted: 8/18/2013 10:16:20 PM
They forgot a few;







There will always be an 82 Abn Dv because it lives in the hearts of men & somewhere young men will dare the challenge to "stand up & hook up" & know that moment of pride & strength which is its reward
6winchester2
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Posted: 8/18/2013 10:22:53 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By the_naked_prophet:
Originally Posted By M15A2:
Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
The AK-47 is on the list, the M16/AR15 isn't


Because its a list of outdated weapons



This is true, and as bad as the article is... the AK THE STG-43 did change everything - the AR type rifle was a response to it, a refinement of the idea of a high-capacity intermediate power carbine.


How about if we give credit where it is actually due?

"The symbol on my holster is a chess knight, an attack piece, the most versatile on the board. It can move eight ways, over barriers, always unexpected." - Paladin, HG-WT.
Stlkid
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Posted: 8/18/2013 10:30:38 PM
Artillery needs to be on the list.
Where you from you dont know gator?
Jdude
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Posted: 8/18/2013 10:30:48 PM
Barbed wire caused the end of the mounted Cavalry.
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Posted: 8/18/2013 10:30:57 PM
The AK set a new standard that the world had to play by.
Originally Posted By sdeshazo:
If your not on a few goverment list your not having any fun!
fatcat4620
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Posted: 8/18/2013 10:31:09 PM
[Last Edit: 8/18/2013 10:31:45 PM by fatcat4620]
Double tap
Originally Posted By sdeshazo:
If your not on a few goverment list your not having any fun!
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Posted: 8/18/2013 10:32:02 PM
Nice article. Thanks !
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Posted: 8/18/2013 10:45:30 PM
Some good choices in that list, but some strange ones as well. A phalanx is a weapon?

The problem is that once you get further along in history, the line blurs between a new weapon, and the engraftment of a new technology onto an existing weapon. In other words, what is one listing: a weapon or a component? For example, ought one to choose a lever-action rifle or bolt action rifle as an example of a breech-loading repeating rifle, or would it make more sense to recognize the two technological advancements that did the most to make breech-loading possible (brass casings and primers)? Does it make more sense to say the rifle, or the minie ball? My list:

1. Bone/rock - use something other than yourself to inflict damage
2. Metal blades - the mainstay of human weaponry for what? 7000 years or more?
3. Stirrups - cavalry has arrived
4. Gunpowder/siege cannon - self-evident
5. The ring/socket bayonet - the firearm and the pike rolled into one
6. The revolver - first practical repeating arm
7. The metallic cartridge - the foundation for the holy grail of weapons makers (the breechloader); also the foundation for all the recoil/gas operated repeating arms ever made
8. The tank - the cavalry goes industrial
9. The airplane - I think this ought to also include the aircraft carrier
10. The submarine - pretty self-evident as well
11. Rockets/missiles - also self-evident
12. Nuclear weapons - also self-evident
13. The computer

Yeah, I had to go one over. And all of that almost completely ignores naval warfare for the vast majority of human history, but I don't really feel adequate to that task. At a minimum I think one must consider including the rudder, possibly oars, the ram, the sail, honorable mention to the corvus, Greek fire, and all of the enhancements to ships that I don't really understand but that allowed them to tack ever further into the wind.
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Posted: 8/18/2013 10:47:57 PM
[Last Edit: 8/18/2013 10:48:23 PM by Lon_Moer]
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
The AK-47 is on the list, the M16/AR15 isn't
<>
<snip>
Yes, of course.
The AK is a peasants gun designed to be built in caves by smashing rocks together.
The AR is a sophisticated technologically artistic piece of machinery.
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Posted: 8/18/2013 11:26:59 PM
Originally Posted By fatcat4620:
The AK set a new standard that the world had to play by.


I have to agree with the above. Cheap, easy to make, reliable, accurate enough, etc.

The AR-15 is a good platform but I don't think it had the change that the ak did. The ar's big move in my mind was the move to save weight in both design and ammo size. A very good platform, but the ak will have a greater legacy.
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Posted: 8/18/2013 11:29:53 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By SouthEndXGF:
What? NO JUDGE MAUSER???

FIFY
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Posted: 8/18/2013 11:38:11 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By wganz:
Originally Posted By SouthEndXGF:
What? NO JUDGE MAUSER???

FIFY


Yeah, the fact the bolt action 90% of all subsequent and modern actions are based on went unlisted lets me know exactly how much attention I should give that article.
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Posted: 8/18/2013 11:52:23 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
Originally Posted By the_naked_prophet:
Originally Posted By M15A2:
Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
The AK-47 is on the list, the M16/AR15 isn't


Because its a list of outdated weapons



This is true, and as bad as the article is... the AK THE STG-43 did change everything - the AR type rifle was a response to it, a refinement of the idea of a high-capacity intermediate power carbine.


How about if we give credit where it is actually due?

Exactly
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Posted: 8/18/2013 11:56:03 PM
[Last Edit: 8/18/2013 11:57:09 PM by JDJR]
I would not pick the AK just any rifle. Winter War was won by bolt action rifles. But liberal news what do you expect...commie rifle is their pick
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Posted: 8/18/2013 11:59:13 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
Originally Posted By the_naked_prophet:
Originally Posted By M15A2:
Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
The AK-47 is on the list, the M16/AR15 isn't


Because its a list of outdated weapons



This is true, and as bad as the article is... the AK THE STG-43 did change everything - the AR type rifle was a response to it, a refinement of the idea of a high-capacity intermediate power carbine.


How about if we give credit where it is actually due?


Yes and no. Despite what Kalashnikov says, the AK-47 was obviously based off the idea of the STG.44, however I still think the AK had more of a historical impact on the world of small arms. The STG only saw limited service over just a few years before it evolved into the CETME and G3 and the concept of the Assault Rifle (small, intermediate cartridge rifle/carbine) was pretty much abandoned. While the rest of the world was using full size Battle Rifles like the M14, FAL, G3, etc. Russia was about the only country using an Assault Rifle, which the rest of the world eventually started using throughout the Cold War.
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Posted: 8/19/2013 12:06:32 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Nagewaza624:
Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:
Originally Posted By kitwulfen:


Considering the article author's ignorance, I'm not surprised.

Technically called the "Automat Kalashnikova – 47,” the AK was everything its American counterpart the M-16 was not -- cheap, easy to manufacture, reliable and accurate, and it didn’t hurt that it just looked cooler.





I guess it depends on your definition of "accurate" is.



Here's another

Hollywood also did their part, preferring its curved clip



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AssaultRifler
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Posted: 8/19/2013 12:12:03 AM
Glock should be on the list, as well as the 1911
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Posted: 8/19/2013 12:20:20 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By JDJR:
I would not pick the AK just any rifle. Winter War was won by bolt action rifles. But liberal news what do you expect...commie rifle is their pick
You mean the same commie rifle used by the Finn's. The M-39 is a mosin nagant. Made in Russia. Sexed up in Finnland. The Finn's purchased surplus Chinese and DDR ak's for their reserve forces. Not to mention the Valmet is a ak. The Finn's won the winter wars because they were fighting conscripts and had everything to lose.
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Posted: 8/19/2013 12:40:08 AM
[Last Edit: 8/19/2013 12:40:36 AM by jered1321]
No M1 garand WHAT THE FUCK
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Posted: 8/19/2013 12:42:27 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Wolverine1776:
Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
Originally Posted By the_naked_prophet:
Originally Posted By M15A2:
Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
The AK-47 is on the list, the M16/AR15 isn't


Because its a list of outdated weapons



This is true, and as bad as the article is... the AK THE STG-43 did change everything - the AR type rifle was a response to it, a refinement of the idea of a high-capacity intermediate power carbine.


How about if we give credit where it is actually due?


Yes and no. Despite what Kalashnikov says, the AK-47 was obviously based off the idea of the STG.44, however I still think the AK had more of a historical impact on the world of small arms. The STG only saw limited service over just a few years before it evolved into the CETME and G3 and the concept of the Assault Rifle (small, intermediate cartridge rifle/carbine) was pretty much abandoned. While the rest of the world was using full size Battle Rifles like the M14, FAL, G3, etc. Russia was about the only country using an Assault Rifle, which the rest of the world eventually started using throughout the Cold War.

So if Russia's rifle was popular the world over, and it's based on an earlier German rifle, shouldn't the basis rifle be the more influential item?
Kinda like Maxim's design being copied and modified by Vickers; Maxim would get the credit for influencing the Brits.
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Posted: 8/19/2013 1:03:08 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By fatcat4620:
The AK set a new standard that the world had to play by.


but it really wasn't a significant giant step in evolution other than being cheap. Clip fed gas-operated semi-(or fully)automatic "shoulder" weapons had been around 30-40 years by then.