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Posted: 8/14/2013 8:36:59 AM EDT
[#1]
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That would be very sad if the cockpit had been a survivable impact but they'd died from smoke inhalation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm surprised the pilots died when the flight deck appears to be intact. Exactly what I was thinking. Although massive lateral G forces to the body do bad things. Could have been from smoke. That would be very sad if the cockpit had been a survivable impact but they'd died from smoke inhalation. Geez, commercial have oxygen and smoke goggles. I would guess they have no less on freighters? |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 8:48:34 AM EDT
[#2]
Damn doubletap
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Posted: 8/14/2013 8:49:44 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
^^ on that note, what if it was low oxygen in the cabin, possibly incapacitating them? No. iirc FARs have changed since the SD leerjet crash about oxygen masks etc. The crew would have been unresponsive and the jet would have flown at altitude until it ran out of fuel. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 8:50:23 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. iirc FARs have changed since the SD leerjet crash about oxygen masks etc. The crew would have been unresponsive and the jet would have flown at altitude until it ran out of fuel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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^^ on that note, what if it was low oxygen in the cabin, possibly incapacitating them? No. iirc FARs have changed since the SD leerjet crash about oxygen masks etc. The crew would have been unresponsive and the jet would have flown at altitude until it ran out of fuel. Even if the autopilot and ILS was set? At least with the cockpit broken off instead of part of the fireball, they can determine cause of death easily, and the recorders will be instant plug-in to listen to. The instruments should all be readable to show last settings, too. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 8:52:02 AM EDT
[#5]
 This is probably the first time I hear of one their planes going down. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 8:55:29 AM EDT
[#6]
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Even if the autopilot and ILS was set? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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^^ on that note, what if it was low oxygen in the cabin, possibly incapacitating them? No. iirc FARs have changed since the SD leerjet crash about oxygen masks etc. The crew would have been unresponsive and the jet would have flown at altitude until it ran out of fuel. Even if the autopilot and ILS was set? You need to be close to an airport to intercept the localizer if it was GPS guided it probably would have hit the runway. At this point with no radio transcripts, or information besides its in a field and the crew is dead, it could be anything, but I still doubt it was hypoxia |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 8:56:44 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You need to be close to an airport to intercept the localizer if it was GPS guided it probably would have hit the runway. At this point with no radio transcripts, or information besides its in a field and the crew is dead, it could be anything, but I still doubt it was hypoxia Quote HistoryQuoted:
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^^ on that note, what if it was low oxygen in the cabin, possibly incapacitating them? No. iirc FARs have changed since the SD leerjet crash about oxygen masks etc. The crew would have been unresponsive and the jet would have flown at altitude until it ran out of fuel. Even if the autopilot and ILS was set? You need to be close to an airport to intercept the localizer if it was GPS guided it probably would have hit the runway. At this point with no radio transcripts, or information besides its in a field and the crew is dead, it could be anything, but I still doubt it was hypoxia Oh, that's right. But yeah. Wait for the autopsy for bloodstream chemicals/smoke in lungs or not, etc, I guess. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 8:59:41 AM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 8/14/2013 9:00:11 AM EDT
[#9]
In regards to the earlier terrorism comments. I seriously doubt terrorists would blow their wads on a cargo plane. They want passenger planes filled with people.
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Posted: 8/14/2013 9:03:42 AM EDT
[#10]
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In regards to the earlier terrorism comments. I seriously doubt terrorists would blow their wads on a cargo plane. They want passenger planes filled with people. Yes. The only possibility for terrorists and cargo planes that scares me is if they DO ever get hold of a crude collision nuke. They have a delivery device, since they're suicidal. Just fly an old cargo dog 727 up from Central America, and pop it in midair over a city on approach. Airburst, no missile needed. 
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Posted: 8/14/2013 9:04:09 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOh wow they hit that berm hard. Probably died instantly. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 9:04:55 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryThat's gonna be blunt force trauma. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 9:05:54 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is probably the first time I hear of one their planes going down.They lost one in Dubai not too long ago. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 9:06:12 AM EDT
[#14]
i bet it was a shipment of LiPos.. Damn things just burst into flame..
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Posted: 8/14/2013 9:06:56 AM EDT
[#15]
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They lost one in Dubai not too long ago. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This is probably the first time I hear of one their planes going down.They lost one in Dubai not too long ago. The report just came out in July on that. Cargo of lithium batteries lit up in the back. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 9:08:11 AM EDT
[#16]
I thought it was odd that they were landing on Rwy 18. Usually those guys use 24/6 even with the displaced threshold it has over 10k available. 18/36 is around 7k.
We have had several UPS pilots in our unit, all are accounted for fortunately. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 9:12:59 AM EDT
[#17]
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I thought it was odd that they were landing on Rwy 18. Usually those guys use 24/6 even with the displaced threshold it has over 10k available. 18/36 is around 7k. We have had several UPS pilots in our unit, all are accounted for fortunately. Ill add to the fire speculation. Especially with that track someone posted earlier. 5500' rate of descent? |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 9:18:11 AM EDT
[#18]
Sharon Wilson, who lives near the airport, said she was in bed before dawn when an airplane went over her house at what sounded like treetop level. The engines were making an odd sound like sputtering, she said. "It sounded like an airplane had given out of fuel. We thought it was trying to make it to the airport. But a few minutes later we heard a loud `boom,'" she said. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 9:26:26 AM EDT
[#19]
Sad. I am always saddened seeing the death of my fellow freight dogs. I know a few guys at UPS ops and air crew.
In regards to the terror, and people discounting it so early, I wouldn't do that. If you all remember they were wanting to attack the US through the cargo inudstry 6-8 years ago with printer cartriges. AQAP took responsibility for the broken up plot. The tango's are persistant people...embassy attacks and the continued then successful attacks on the WTC are only a few of failed then successful attacks.. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 9:29:15 AM EDT
[#20]
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How did the jump to conclusions mat go all the way to VX?  Because GD is here the Jump to Conclusions Mat intersects with the Jump to Dumbass Map. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 9:31:43 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ill add to the fire speculation. Especially with that track someone posted earlier. 5500' rate of descent? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I thought it was odd that they were landing on Rwy 18. Usually those guys use 24/6 even with the displaced threshold it has over 10k available. 18/36 is around 7k. We have had several UPS pilots in our unit, all are accounted for fortunately. Ill add to the fire speculation. Especially with that track someone posted earlier. 5500' rate of descent? |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 9:34:22 AM EDT
[#22]
Just found out that one of the crew lived right around here, and my brother knows the family... sucks.
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Posted: 8/14/2013 9:34:59 AM EDT
[#23]
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I know folks are going to be upset at the loss of their material goods they've been eagerly anticipating, but there are at least two families out there who's worlds were turned upside down from this event. The loss of a husband, father, or son isn't something that can be easily adjusted to, if ever. Sad.
material things are just that.....material |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 9:42:10 AM EDT
[#24]
Bird strike? Would go with the sound of an engine sputtering.
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Posted: 8/14/2013 9:51:21 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bird strike? Would go with the sound of an engine sputtering. Very unlikely before daybreak. Bird activity is pretty low this time of year in this area also. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 9:59:47 AM EDT
[#26]
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Is it possible /likely they made a rapid descent due to loss of cabin pressure, then failed to level out or tried to force a landing they weren't quite in position for? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I thought it was odd that they were landing on Rwy 18. Usually those guys use 24/6 even with the displaced threshold it has over 10k available. 18/36 is around 7k. We have had several UPS pilots in our unit, all are accounted for fortunately. Ill add to the fire speculation. Especially with that track someone posted earlier. 5500' rate of descent? They didnt declare an IFE in either case. FYI there's only GPS and LOC approaches to 18. No ILS. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 10:02:21 AM EDT
[#27]
I don't know why this story isn't bigger news.
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Posted: 8/14/2013 10:08:52 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know why this story isn't bigger news. Not a "passenger" jet I"m guessing. And just as many died as on the plane flown from Captain Sum Ting Wong a month ago or so in CA. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 10:10:38 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryThis picture shows, in part, the forces to which the pilot's bodies were subjected. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 10:29:59 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ill add to the fire speculation. Especially with that track someone posted earlier. 5500' rate of descent? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I thought it was odd that they were landing on Rwy 18. Usually those guys use 24/6 even with the displaced threshold it has over 10k available. 18/36 is around 7k. We have had several UPS pilots in our unit, all are accounted for fortunately. Ill add to the fire speculation. Especially with that track someone posted earlier. 5500' rate of descent? |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 10:30:03 AM EDT
[#31]
Deepest condolences to family & friends of the crew.
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Posted: 8/14/2013 10:32:15 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know why this story isn't bigger news. It was all over the national shows this morning. Not sure what outlets you were watching. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 10:32:46 AM EDT
[#33]
Fuel issue is what I heard. I don't know shit about aviation I do know there is no such thing as coasting on fumes in a 767.
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Posted: 8/14/2013 10:35:02 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuel issue is what I heard. I don't know shit about aviation I do know there is no such thing as coasting on fumes in a 767. I think there is such a thing, similar to Captain Sully's maneuvers. You just need a good landing spot in range of the "coast" is all. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 10:35:16 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't see how a fire could develop and these guys don't report it over the radio at any point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I thought it was odd that they were landing on Rwy 18. Usually those guys use 24/6 even with the displaced threshold it has over 10k available. 18/36 is around 7k. We have had several UPS pilots in our unit, all are accounted for fortunately. Ill add to the fire speculation. Especially with that track someone posted earlier. 5500' rate of descent? Unless they had all of their attention focused on controlling a rapidly-developing situation. Aviate, navigate, communicate, in that order. Everything is speculation. From what I understand, that kind of brisk descent happens with late clearances and pilots who don't need to worry about upsetting passengers. Whether it was CFIT, mechanical failure, or intentional, the immediate result is the same for those pilots and their loved ones. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 10:42:36 AM EDT
[#36]
Some pilot info: http://www.myfoxal.com/story/23135730/lynchburg-tn-pilot-killed-in-ups-crash
Some news stations are reporting the named pilot is a part of the family that runs jack daniels. http://www.wave3.com/story/23136220/pilot-killed-in-ups-plane-crash-identified-as-member-of-jack-daniels-distillery-family |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 11:10:59 AM EDT
[#37]
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Fuel issue is what I heard. I don't know shit about aviation I do know there is no such thing as coasting on fumes in a 767. You sure? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236 |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 11:13:12 AM EDT
[#38]
I've worked that area. It's quite depopulated since the Airport Authority took it over.
For just this reason, evidently. Good place to have a plane crash if it has to. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 11:16:13 AM EDT
[#39]
Been out there all morning. The plane didn't hit any homes its possible some debris hit around
some houses but how it got there is speculation. It seemed to have plenty of fuel. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 11:18:23 AM EDT
[#40]
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Hmm..I hope none of my out-going ammo shipments were on that plane...... edit: Yes, I am worried for people as well. Having spent just about every day this last week shipping stuff out via UPS, it was, I admit, my first thought upon hearing of the crash I admit, It was my first thought too, for the first split second. Ammo goes by train/truck (ground) only. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 11:30:33 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Deepest condolences to family & friends of the crew. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 11:31:36 AM EDT
[#42]
Here are some aerial photos.
ETA: Weather at the time of the accident: METAR text: KBHM 141053Z 01003KT 10SM OVC070 23/22 A2999 RMK AO2 SLP146 T02330222 Conditions at: KBHM (BIRMINGHAM , AL, US) observed 1053 UTC 14 August 2013 Temperature: 23.3°C (74°F) Dewpoint: 22.2°C (72°F) [RH = 94%] Pressure (altimeter): 29.99 inches Hg (1015.7 mb) [Sea-level pressure: 1014.6 mb] Winds: from the N (10 degrees) at 3 MPH (3 knots; 1.6 m/s) Visibility: 10 or more miles (16+ km) Ceiling: 7000 feet AGL Clouds: overcast cloud deck at 7000 feet AGL Weather: no significant weather observed at this time |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 11:33:07 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryDamn, they almost made it. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 11:33:34 AM EDT
[#44]
Damn. So close. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 11:33:47 AM EDT
[#45]
pilot was part of Jack Daniels family?
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Posted: 8/14/2013 11:35:57 AM EDT
[#46]
That was great weather.
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Posted: 8/14/2013 11:38:23 AM EDT
[#47]
Airbus.
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Posted: 8/14/2013 11:39:47 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fuel issue is what I heard. I don't know shit about aviation I do know there is no such thing as coasting on fumes in a 767. No chance |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 11:40:59 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even if the autopilot and ILS was set? At least with the cockpit broken off instead of part of the fireball, they can determine cause of death easily, and the recorders will be instant plug-in to listen to. The instruments should all be readable to show last settings, too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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^^ on that note, what if it was low oxygen in the cabin, possibly incapacitating them? No. iirc FARs have changed since the SD leerjet crash about oxygen masks etc. The crew would have been unresponsive and the jet would have flown at altitude until it ran out of fuel. Even if the autopilot and ILS was set? At least with the cockpit broken off instead of part of the fireball, they can determine cause of death easily, and the recorders will be instant plug-in to listen to. The instruments should all be readable to show last settings, too. If it still had analog instruments, they typically go to zeros when power is lost. Obviously with digital integrated avionics the same thing happens. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 11:41:12 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No chance Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Fuel issue is what I heard. I don't know shit about aviation I do know there is no such thing as coasting on fumes in a 767. No chance Um... The Gimli Glider is the nickname of an Air Canada aircraft that was involved in an unusual aviation incident. On 23 July 1983, Air Canada Flight 143, a Boeing 767-233 jet, ran out of fuel at an altitude of 41,000 feet (12,000 m) MSL, about halfway through its flight originating in Montreal from Ottawa to Edmonton. The crew was able to glide the aircraft safely to an emergency landing at Gimli Industrial Park Airport, a former Royal Canadian Air Force base in Gimli, Manitoba.[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider Quoted:
If it still had analog instruments, they typically go to zeros when power is lost. Obviously with digital integrated avionics the same thing happens. Meant more breakers, flap position switches, throttles...shouldn't have said "instruments". 
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