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Chuy123
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:15:32 AM
Long story short.......

Rolling over to a Fidelity account.........ex employer.......been over 90 days. Amount is a little over 40K. What recourse do we have?
Chas8008
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:18:09 AM
tag
Do not email me please, I will not get it. IM me only for the time being..

Thanks Chas
Shott8283
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:19:03 AM
cash it out and transfer the funds?
Originally Posted By Colonel_Angus: I can taste colors after reading that abortion
Ryan1021
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:19:22 AM
Do they still have you listed as an active employee? I would get a copy of your previous employer's Summary Plan Description and see what it says.
jeep450
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:21:02 AM
Does Fidelity have anything on their website about this?




I wonder if your money is ACTUALLY still there?
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NagOrzo15-1
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:21:42 AM
Most of the time its just an oversight by the HR folks and will eventually get fixed.

I've only seen this once where it didn't turn out to be an oversight.

The money was all gone, the 401K trustee fucked up bad and killed himself when his embezzlement was discovered, and the employee never got any of that cash even after she sued.
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Hugo_Stiglitz
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:22:13 AM
In for result. Interesting...
Trust.
Zcwilkins
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:23:02 AM
Originally Posted By NagOrzo15-1:
Most of the time its just an oversight by the HR folks and will eventually get fixed.

I've only seen this once where it didn't turn out to be an oversight.

The money was all gone, the 401K trustee fucked up bad and killed himself when his embezzlement was discovered, and the employee never got any of that cash even after she sued.

Wow, that's fucked up.
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metalsaber
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:23:06 AM

Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:
In for result. Interesting...


I bought all this equipment. What do you mean that the dead AREN'T coming back to life?
dex357
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:24:02 AM
Originally Posted By jeep450:
Does Fidelity have anything on their website about this?




I wonder if your money is ACTUALLY still there?


Ex employer is going to put it back in the account real soon.


That big ass boat didn't buy itself.

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Zevyn
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:25:17 AM
Aren't the employer and investment company two different entities? Why would your employer hold power over your investments?
OKC556CPA
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:27:31 AM
Call HR directly. Let them know the situation.

Is your former employer also the custodian, or are they using a 3rd party (TIAA-CREF, Schwab, etc..)? If they're using a 3rd party, usually you can go directly to the custodian and get the forms you need to rollover your 401(k) to your new employer.

If your former employer is the custodian, notify them via certified mail that you intend to rollover your funds, and to send you the appropriate paperwork.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:27:32 AM
Originally Posted By Zevyn:
Aren't the employer and investment company two different entities? Why would your employer hold power over your investments?


Common.

OP: They never want to give up the $ because they're making $ off it. They make it hard on purpose. They're as bad as insurance companies. Treat them the same way - hound them.
Chuy123
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:29:47 AM
By law they have 90 days to transfer funds. I guess I will call a Fidelity rep and ask what i can do. I did about 95% of the account setup online.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:31:50 AM
I also have a problem getting my 401k dollars from a former employer. I have two choices, get an attorney or wait for the plan administrator to die. But, that is a whole other story.

The federal government has a group that may be able to help you. It is called the Employee Benefits Security Administration (EBSA). First call your former employer and find out what the delay is. If they give an unsatisfactory answer, call ESBA. You can get the number for the closest office or the office that services your area here http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/aboutebsa/org_chart.html#section13

The former employer cannot keep you money but they do have the power to not allow the management company to release it to your or a qualified plan.

Good Luck.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:34:13 AM
Originally Posted By mmsSierra:
I also have a problem getting my 401k dollars from a former employer. I have two choices, get an attorney or wait for the plan administrator to die. But, that is a whole other story.

The federal government has a group that may be able to help you. It is called the Employee Benefits Security Administration (EBSA). First call your former employer and find out what the delay is. If they give an unsatisfactory answer, call ESBA. You can get the number for the closest office or the office that services your area here http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/aboutebsa/org_chart.html#section13

The former employer cannot keep you money but they do have the power to not allow the management company to release it to your or a qualified plan.

Good Luck.


Can you explain that statement?
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:35:31 AM
[Last Edit: 5/17/2013 10:35:55 AM by Silver_Surfer]
Originally Posted By Shott8283:
cash it out and transfer the funds?


This is what I had to do. Paid etra taxes but in the end
gotuonpaper
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:38:33 AM
Originally Posted By jeep450:
Does Fidelity have anything on their website about this?




I wonder if your money is ACTUALLY still there?[/quote]

First thought..

Second thought...contact an attorney. Letters form them tend to lubricate the gears a little.
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4v50
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:40:08 AM
Dept of Labor has a Pension Fraud Unit that goes after employers who steal money. Call them. It's free.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:40:11 AM
Originally Posted By GeorgeInNePa:
Originally Posted By mmsSierra:
I also have a problem getting my 401k dollars from a former employer. I have two choices, get an attorney or wait for the plan administrator to die. But, that is a whole other story.

The federal government has a group that may be able to help you. It is called the Employee Benefits Security Administration (EBSA). First call your former employer and find out what the delay is. If they give an unsatisfactory answer, call ESBA. You can get the number for the closest office or the office that services your area here http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/aboutebsa/org_chart.html#section13

The former employer cannot keep you money but they do have the power to not allow the management company to release it to your or a qualified plan.

Good Luck.


Can you explain that statement?


Depending on how the employer has set up the plan, it may require a plan administrator to sign release paper work to allow you to either get your money or transfer it to a qualified plan. Usually, the employer is not the fund management company (the company actually investing and holding the money). The employer cannot steal or do something with the money, but they can choose to not sign the paper work to release the money. If the management company has a contract with the former employer that says they must have a release, the management company cannot release the money to you or a qualified plan without the signed paper work.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:42:02 AM
1. Polite verbal request;
2. Polite letter to document and follow-up on verbal request;
3. Wait 14 days;
4. Flamethrower;
5. ?????
6. Profit.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:43:04 AM
I left my job last year, but the 401(K) was not accessible until April of this year.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:44:13 AM

Originally Posted By Silver_Surfer:
Originally Posted By Shott8283:
cash it out and transfer the funds?


This is what I had to do. Paid etra taxes but in the end


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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:44:49 AM
[Last Edit: 5/17/2013 10:51:44 AM by Silver_Surfer]
Originally Posted By bteamleader:
1. Polite verbal request;
2. Polite letter to document and follow-up on verbal request;
3. Wait 14 days;
4. Flamethrower;
5. ?????
6. Profit.


I waited and waited and then contacted their bookkeeper & fund manager. Nothing happen, is why I cashed out in the end.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:46:03 AM
I went through something similar, but I got lucky and was able to transfer it. Funny thing was I had to call the human resources lady back again cause the check just didn't appear, so they cancelled the first one and sent another one. Sure as shit both checks showed up. LOL
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:46:56 AM
Originally Posted By Zcwilkins:
Originally Posted By NagOrzo15-1:
Most of the time its just an oversight by the HR folks and will eventually get fixed.

I've only seen this once where it didn't turn out to be an oversight.

The money was all gone, the 401K trustee fucked up bad and killed himself when his embezzlement was discovered, and the employee never got any of that cash even after she sued.

Wow, that's fucked up.


Yep, it's a risk.

Any time you have wealth that you can not hold in your hands...........it's not your wealth until you can.

The days of electronic wealth are drawing to a close I fear........soon.
I think "coward" should become the next popular, well used insult, it's so seldom used yet so appropriate for so many.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 10:56:01 AM
[Last Edit: 5/17/2013 10:59:18 AM by Silver_Surfer]
Originally Posted By Recusance:
Originally Posted By Zcwilkins:
Originally Posted By NagOrzo15-1:
Most of the time its just an oversight by the HR folks and will eventually get fixed.

I've only seen this once where it didn't turn out to be an oversight.

The money was all gone, the 401K trustee fucked up bad and killed himself when his embezzlement was discovered, and the employee never got any of that cash even after she sued.

Wow, that's fucked up.


Yep, it's a risk.

Any time you have wealth that you can not hold in your hands...........it's not your wealth until you can.



The days of electronic wealth are drawing to a close I fear........soon.


Might be a BS thing. After waitting I contacted the fund people and they said the money got issued back to the company. I said Fuck That(not in thoes words) and spoke to someone else who sent me the check.

Sad but nice guys do finish last.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 11:13:12 AM
The last time I left a company, the HR manager told me I had 90 days to roll over my company 401K into a new account, or they (the 401K administrators) would simply cut a check to me. This was a "warning" of sorts because if I did not provide them with roll over info, I'd be on the hook for the taxes and penalties as they were basically going to cash me out. This is directly contrary to the OP's situation. Something doesn't smell right here.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 11:15:23 AM
Chuy, did you make the transfer request through the financial institution that holds the money or through your ex-employer?

In the past when I've done it, I never had to contact the previous employer only. the financial institution. They should send the forms to the previous employer. If they have, file a complain with the state labor commission.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 11:18:10 AM
Originally Posted By kpu1127:
The last time I left a company, the HR manager told me I had 90 days to roll over my company 401K into a new account, or they (the 401K administrators) would simply cut a check to me. This was a "warning" of sorts because if I did not provide them with roll over info, I'd be on the hook for the taxes and penalties as they were basically going to cash me out. This is directly contrary to the OP's situation. Something doesn't smell right here.


Myself and my wife have left money in 401K accounts where we had left the job 5+ years earlier. In one case it was over 8 years. Never had anyone tell me to transfer money out.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 11:21:08 AM
Your ex-employer should have no say over your 401k. Whatever investment firm they used would control that. Fidelity should be able to handle all the necessary paperwork to make it happen. It is in their best interest to do so if they want your money.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 11:22:46 AM
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Your ex-employer should have no say over your 401k. Whatever investment firm they used would control that. Fidelity should be able to handle all the necessary paperwork to make it happen. It is in their best interest to do so if they want your money.


Isn't a 401K an asset belonging to the company?
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Posted: 5/17/2013 11:23:35 AM
Originally Posted By kpu1127:
The last time I left a company, the HR manager told me I had 90 days to roll over my company 401K into a new account, or they (the 401K administrators) would simply cut a check to me. This was a "warning" of sorts because if I did not provide them with roll over info, I'd be on the hook for the taxes and penalties as they were basically going to cash me out. This is directly contrary to the OP's situation. Something doesn't smell right here.


It depends on the plan. I've got a job from.. 5+ years ago, that I can't effectively get out of the retirement plan from. OP didn't read his plan docs, it could be "you can only withdraw between November 1st and November 2nd on alternate leap years" or some idiotic shit.
Dorcas
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Posted: 5/17/2013 11:41:52 AM
Originally Posted By dillehayd:
Originally Posted By Zevyn:
Aren't the employer and investment company two different entities? Why would your employer hold power over your investments?


Common.

OP: They never want to give up the $ because they're making $ off it. They make it hard on purpose. They're as bad as insurance companies. Treat them the same way - hound them.


As a 401K administrator, I can tell you this is completely untrue. 401K plans are a cost to the company just like any other benefit.

To the OP, there are typically two people involved in a 401K plan. The plan sponsor, which is your employer, and the plan record keeper which is usually an investment firm (Fidelity, Vanguard, etc.).

In order for the plan record keeper to release funds from the plan, they typically need approval from the plan sponsor who has fiduciary responsibility to ensure the funds are being released properly.

If I had to venture a guess as to your specific issue, I would guess one of a few of things:
1) You are trying to get the plan record keeper to release the funds and they won't without plan sponsor approval.
2) You have funds you aren't yet vested in that they will not release.
3) Someone at your employer is a jackass and doesn't know what they are doing.

A call to the plan administrator (someone at your employers office) will probably clear it right up.


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Posted: 5/17/2013 11:42:30 AM
$40K?

I'd lawyer the fuck up. They'll charge you $1K or so.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 11:43:13 AM
Originally Posted By Dorcas:
Originally Posted By dillehayd:
Originally Posted By Zevyn:
Aren't the employer and investment company two different entities? Why would your employer hold power over your investments?


Common.

OP: They never want to give up the $ because they're making $ off it. They make it hard on purpose. They're as bad as insurance companies. Treat them the same way - hound them.


As a 401K administrator, I can tell you this is completely untrue. 401K plans are a cost to the company just like any other benefit.

To the OP, there are typically two people involved in a 401K plan. The plan sponsor, which is your employer, and the plan record keeper which is usually an investment firm (Fidelity, Vanguard, etc.).

In order for the plan record keeper to release funds from the plan, they typically need approval from the plan sponsor who has fiduciary responsibility to ensure the funds are being released properly.

If I had to venture a guess as to your specific issue, I would guess one of a few of things:
1) You are trying to get the plan record keeper to release the funds and they won't without plan sponsor approval.
2) You have funds you aren't yet vested in that they will not release.
3) Someone at your employer is a jackass and doesn't know what they are doing.

A call to the plan administrator (someone at your employers office) will probably clear it right up.



But this advice is free, so I'd start there.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 11:47:34 AM
[Last Edit: 5/17/2013 11:51:32 AM by callgood]
If the management company has a contract with the former employer that says they must have a release, the management company cannot release the money to you or a qualified plan without the signed paper work.



(GD solution)
There was a scene in The Godfather that covered this.
IIRC Michael and Kay were at a table at Connie's wedding. Had to do with family business practices.


Or you could take Dorcas' advice.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 12:12:53 PM
Cash it out, call the adminstrator and tell them you want to cash out and to NOT, I REPEAT NOT take any Taxes out. You have 90 days to roll your money into a retirement account before taxes are due. If they will not release your money still contact a lawyer and have them send a nasty note may cost you a $100 or less or call those federal outfit listed by other posters. KY has an outfit called Ominbus at state level maybe your state does too that may also help. It''s is your money and fight like hell to keep it. If a company is hinky about releaseing your retirement money they are up to something shady with it and the squeaky wheel gets the grease so to speak.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 12:24:47 PM
Does he have a dag?
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Posted: 5/17/2013 12:31:19 PM
Originally Posted By Shott8283:
cash it out and transfer the funds?


And pay the penalties?
No way.
Experience is that thing you get immediately after you need it.

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Posted: 5/17/2013 12:35:30 PM
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Your ex-employer should have no say over your 401k. Whatever investment firm they used would control that. Fidelity should be able to handle all the necessary paperwork to make it happen. It is in their best interest to do so if they want your money.


Isn't a 401K an asset belonging to the company?


None that I've ever seen.
That money is yours and an investment firm is managing it.
Experience is that thing you get immediately after you need it.

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Posted: 5/17/2013 12:38:06 PM
Are they withholding your non vested $$.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 12:38:09 PM
Call the state's Attorney General's office and get the law on them. Make them earn your tax dollars, that's what they're there for.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 12:44:55 PM
Killdozer.
StretchMaK
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Posted: 5/17/2013 12:50:41 PM
Originally Posted By Shott8283:
cash it out and transfer the funds?






Do not do this, I repeat, do not do this.

I WILL NOT COMPLY
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Posted: 5/17/2013 1:03:23 PM
[Last Edit: 5/17/2013 1:04:29 PM by airsix]
"your employer has no control over your 401k"
A: False. The company owner is likely the "plan administrator". Employer does not have custody of the funds, but must sign-off on rollovers/distributions. They may simply not be "getting around to it" yet.

Parties involved:
You
Employer (plan sponsor and plan administrator)
3rd-party Administrator (TPA) (a company that does the bookkeeping)
Custodian (the company that holds the funds and sends you statements)

IMPORTANT NOTE: When transfering/rolling qualified plans the receiving firm is worthless. They have no pull whatsoever. EVERYTHING happens at the origination end. Hounding the receiving firm will get you nowhere and just piss you and them off. Apply all pressure to the TPA, employer, and plan-custodian in that order.

Possible causes:
1) If you terminated less than 30 days ago there are no red flags yet. 401k stuff is slow. 3rd-party admin may still be in the process of calculating your vesting percentage for company match. They can't process a rollover request until they calculate how much you get. If you worked there less than 6 years you probably won't get 100% of your company match.
2) Plan admin (boss) stalling on signing off on the rollover due to being lazy, procrastinator, busy, a-hole.
3) Payroll dept may not have updated your employment status with the TPA/Custodian yet. This usually takes at least one full payroll cycle in my experience.

Possible remedies:
1) If you've waited less then a month take a chill pill
2) If you submitted your paperwork more than 6 weeks ago it's time to start making calls unless your summary plan description says something antiquated like "rollover distributions will be processed twice annually on the 1st of January and 1st of July" in which case that's the time-line.
- Call the Third Party Administrator (TPA) if they are separate from the custodian
- Call the custodian if they are acting as TPA
- Call your plan administrator (not HR, not payroll, the actual person who signed plan documents as administrator)

3) If you get nowhere inform the TPA and plan admin that you have no choice but to contact the Department of Labor ERISA division and lodge a complaint. For them to get a visit from an ERISA inspector is like you getting a visit from the IRS. They'll definitely want to avoid that.



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Posted: 5/17/2013 1:24:58 PM
Originally Posted By StretchMaK:
Originally Posted By Shott8283:
cash it out and transfer the funds?






Do not do this, I repeat, do not do this.



You can rollover the money in your old 401k into one you have with a current employer; best to do it trustee to trustee. There are no tax issues that way.
Stick it.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 1:32:52 PM
I almost got fired today [after a 90 day review of my work], kept my job but I get to do twice the work for the same money... hooray?..., anyway I asked if she could fire me for 5 min so I could tap my 401k (I'm poor now and I'll be long dead before retirement). Here's what I was told, you put in a request to have the balance put into an IRA and then withdraw it from there. Once terminated it's your money regardless of the rules the company, and the firm they contracted with, has setup as the administrator of the 401k's . However I was told to transfer it all since if you start an early withdrawal the fund may decide they no longer want your business and to expect not only penalties, but additional income taxes if it bumped me into another category.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 1:35:00 PM
I just transferred an account and my old employer had to send Fidelity a signed form before they'd complete it. I haven't worked there in 5 years.
California_Kid
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Posted: 5/17/2013 1:35:34 PM
File a complaint with these guys. They will amplify your voice so that your former employer will hear you better.

http://www.consumerfinance.gov/
Everywhere we go, we are surrounded by people who stumble through life dependent upon the vigilance and/or kindness of others. - Zardoz
scorpion12
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Posted: 5/17/2013 1:36:00 PM
OP, the 2 experiences I had in dealing with 401k's left at previous employers:

First one I worked for one year. Changed jobs and didn't even think about 401k. The amount was less than $5,000. The company I left cut me a check within 90 days. I wound up paying penalties and taxes.

Second one I worked at for 4 years. Amount was over $5,000. I was given the option by the employer to let them continue to manage my money or roll it over into a new plan, or cash it out. I elected to let them keep it for a while. I was downsized and looking for a job. I didn't want to get a check and run the risk of doing something stupid with it. Once I was employed with my next job, I got with my new 401k management company, filled out the paperwork and they worked the transfer from my previous 401k into the new one.

The only thing I had to do was sign my name to the paperwork authorizing them to pull the money from the old account to the new one.


I was under the impression that, if someone cashes out their 401k and, after paying the penalties and taxes, if they show proof that the amount was deposited back into a 401k that the taxes and penalty fees is refunded or can be claimed when filing taxes or something like that... because the money wasn't cashed out.
It matters not what is said, for spoken words go unheeded. Speakest thout into the void, and suffer the silence that is returned to you.
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