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S_A_C
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Posted: 5/15/2013 3:11:39 AM
Since Square has gone antigun I'd like to switch processors.

Is there any other service like square that's better? I'd love to drop them for this, but the only other simular service I know of is the one run by PayPal, and they are even worse, both in policy, and the way they do business.

For example, if a "customer" tries to get free product by filing a phony dispute, they will sieze the money while they "investigate", then when they release it they pocket $20 to pay for the "investigation", not only is that THEFT, if the total charge was less than $20, not only will they keep ALL of it, they will sieze the difference, in otherwords it would be cheaper to skip the investigation, and just allow the customer to steal from you. Also many items have a less than $20 profit margin.

A policy like that is completely unacceptable. Now consider they are also antigun, and have been known to sieze entire accounts of anyone who sells anything having anything at all to do with guns.

Who else is there?

The device must be free.
There can't be any "rental fees".
No annual fee.
No Monthly fee.
No minimum amount of business.
No fees of any kind, except for the actual transactions.
Must run on Android.
Must release funds within 24 hours.
Must not charge to investigate disputes.

I do not do enough credit card business to justify any other fees, I'm willing to pay a higher per transaction fee in exchange, up to about 3%.

Basically I want Square, but gun friendly.

So is there anyone out there?
dtux
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Posted: 5/15/2013 3:15:13 AM
"When the government violates the people's rights, insurrection is, for the people and for each portion of the people, the most sacred of the rights and the most indispensable of duties."
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TREETOP
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Posted: 5/15/2013 3:21:03 AM
Intuit has one.
˙ǝuılƃıs ʎɯ uı ʇnd oʇ ɹǝʌǝlɔ ƃuıɥʇʎuɐ ɟo ʞuıɥʇ ʇ,uɐɔ I
S_A_C
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Posted: 5/15/2013 3:55:59 AM
[Last Edit: 5/15/2013 3:58:52 AM by S_A_C]
Originally Posted By TREETOP:
Intuit has one.


Nope, from their site:

Happens When a Dispute is Initiated?

When a customer disputes a charge made with GoPayment, this is known as a chargeback to the business account. In the event of a chargeback, three things usually occur:

1) GoPayment removes the amount of the transaction from the business owner’s account.

2) The business owner is assessed a chargeback fee.

3) The business owner has a short time — usually about ten days — to provide evidence that the transaction was, in fact, valid. If this can be done, the money is eventually redeposited into the business account (but the chargeback fee is not refunded)


That's the same policy as PayPal, and it's completely unacceptable.
Seberius
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Posted: 5/15/2013 4:11:51 AM
How many charge backs are you getting?
S_A_C
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Posted: 5/15/2013 5:05:48 AM
Originally Posted By Seberius:
How many charge backs are you getting?


None. But if I do, I want ALL my money back. There are people out there who use disputes as a means to steal.
S_A_C
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Posted: 5/15/2013 7:31:36 PM
Bump.
S_A_C
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Posted: 5/16/2013 6:23:57 PM
No one?
Credge
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Posted: 5/16/2013 6:25:57 PM


Sucks at bars when selling merchandise to people who only brought $20 to limit their drinking money.

Credit is where it's at when selling band merchandise.

I'm keeping my Square. It works, unlike many of the alternatives.
rtech
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Posted: 5/16/2013 6:56:23 PM
I can't use Square anymore as I deal in the firearms industry.

Checked with PAI and the initial fee will be something close to $200 to start up. Don't have that on hand right now. They only want $110 for the phone dongle.

So, I'll have to skip cards right now for the time being, again. I fucking hope Square goes bankrupt and falls on their ass over this. To those still using Square and you are a gun owner, look to another alternative. Vote with your wallet.
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Posted: 5/16/2013 6:59:47 PM
tagged for info
whiskerz
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Posted: 5/16/2013 7:01:26 PM
Tagged for information as well, I only sold a gun item with my square.

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Credge
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Posted: 5/16/2013 7:01:46 PM
[Last Edit: 5/16/2013 7:02:38 PM by Credge]

Originally Posted By rtech:
I can't use Square anymore as I deal in the firearms industry.

Checked with PAI and the initial fee will be something close to $200 to start up. Don't have that on hand right now. They only want $110 for the phone dongle.

So, I'll have to skip cards right now for the time being, again. I fucking hope Square goes bankrupt and falls on their ass over this. To those still using Square and you are a gun owner, look to another alternative. Vote with your wallet.

If the competitors even worked, I'd use them. Square is the only one I've ever had any luck with. It sucks ass, but that's how it is.

ETA: For what it's worth, I have a friend who sells illegal things as various types of dildos while using Square.
gmtmaster
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Posted: 5/16/2013 7:02:45 PM


Problem is most people don't use cash.
brass
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Posted: 5/16/2013 7:39:38 PM
Does Square not allow firearm purchases to be made with the system?

Either way, you are asking a lot for a FREE service. Companies cannot survive without a profit, especially when the percentage is split up between bank and card and card service.

The rules for a commercial machine aren't that much different, but there is an initial fee, and a monthly fee, plus the percentage fee. If you are angry over $20 chargeback fee, then don't deal with credit cards at all.

The person who complains most, and is the most critical of others has the most to hide.

"Obama campaign is going to set back race relations 40 years thanks to some of the company he keeps"-Mazeman
brassburn
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Posted: 5/16/2013 7:46:26 PM
[Last Edit: 5/16/2013 7:47:33 PM by brassburn]
Yeah, OP is setting a pretty high bar for a pretty low end service with low fees.

Until Square starts to hurt your bottom line I'd say you should stow your principles and carry on. If you can reconcile this and you're determined to make a statement you'll just have to suck it up and pay what the competitors are asking.

You're just not going to have your cake and eat it too.

Originally Posted By brass:
Does Square not allow firearm purchases to be made with the system?

Either way, you are asking a lot for a FREE service. Companies cannot survive without a profit, especially when the percentage is split up between bank and card and card service.

The rules for a commercial machine aren't that much different, but there is an initial fee, and a monthly fee, plus the percentage fee. If you are angry over $20 chargeback fee, then don't deal with credit cards at all.





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S_A_C
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Posted: 5/16/2013 9:41:40 PM
[Last Edit: 5/16/2013 9:44:28 PM by S_A_C]
Originally Posted By brass:
Does Square not allow firearm purchases to be made with the system?

Either way, you are asking a lot for a FREE service. Companies cannot survive without a profit, especially when the percentage is split up between bank and card and card service.

The rules for a commercial machine aren't that much different, but there is an initial fee, and a monthly fee, plus the percentage fee. If you are angry over $20 chargeback fee, then don't deal with credit cards at all.



I don't really care about the $20, I care because it is MY MONEY, and they are NOT entitled to it. why should I be penalised because some peace of garbage FSA scammer tries to steal? If they want $20 to pay for an "investigation" then they should take it out of the scammer.

Say you have a $10 item, and a thief "buys" it with a credit card, then uses the dispute scam to get a refund thus essentially stealing it. Sure they can investigate, and give you your $10 back, but it will cost you $20, so either way your taking a $10 hit, and the thief gets away Scott Free. What about a $100 item that you have $90 in, where $20 is more than the profit margin? I don't care if the profit margin is $10,000,000, or more, the $20 is MINE, and they do not deserve it.

Agdon't why should I be penalized for the crimes of others?

I will not do business with any possessor that charges a chargeback fee, or investigation fee, or whatever they want to call it, of any sort, period.

I don't care if they charg a high percentage per transaction fee for this "privilege", but I do not do enough credit card businesses to justify any other recurring, or setup fees, I can alwaysjust charge a surcharge for credit card sales to compensate for transaction fees.

I will not tolerate being charged ANY sort of fee for scammers.

Don't say it's impossible, or that it's setting the bar to high, Square does it, so why can't the others?

I just want a gun friendly version of Square.
brassburn
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Posted: 5/16/2013 9:49:27 PM
You should probably stick to cash only if you expect the processors to do the work involved with chargeback issues and eat their time and costs on it so that you don't have to pay a dime on it. It's nice that Square lets you off the hook so why don't you just stick with them?

You would probably die of a heart attack if you had to deal with the chargebacks that larger outfits see for a variety of reasons. That's the cost of doing business in the big city. Write it off or spend your time worrying about shit that you can mitigate a bit but ultimately can't control.



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S_A_C
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Posted: 5/16/2013 10:06:43 PM
[Last Edit: 5/16/2013 10:07:49 PM by S_A_C]
Originally Posted By brassburn:
You should probably stick to cash only if you expect the processors to do the work involved with chargeback issues and eat their time and costs on it so that you don't have to pay a dime on it. It's nice that Square lets you off the hook so why don't you just stick with them?

You would probably die of a heart attack if you had to deal with the chargebacks that larger outfits see for a variety of reasons. That's the cost of doing business in the big city. Write it off or spend your time worrying about shit that you can mitigate a bit but ultimately can't control.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


I would love to stick with Square, but they have turned antigun, and I would rather not reward them for that with continued business, plus working in a gun related business kind of poses an issue to. Unfortunately I am having a hell of a time finding a replacement. I wouldn't mind going with one of the ones that charge a monthly fee, annual fee, setup fee, etc., but I don't do enough credit card business to justify it. (The only fee I won't tolerate is a chargeback fee)

I'm not saying that the processor should have to eat the cost of investigating a charge back, but niether should I if I have done nothing wrong, they should go after the scammer for the money, then press charges for fraud. I refuse to accept it as "the cost of doing business", criminal is criminal, and I view it the same way as a thug demanding "protection" money. I mostly just charge for classes, but when I do have something to sell at a show I keep it locked in a case to prevent theft (if you want to look at it you must ask me, this prevents someone from grabbing something, and running while my heads turned) this is to prevent theft, I see this as no different. I see no difference between taking something, and running, and buying something, and filing a phony dispute to try, and get it for free, theft is theft, criminal, is criminal, and I refuse to accept it as a cost of business.

If I have to I will keep using square, and just lie to them, or sell "gift certificates", but I would rather drop them, and I can only do that if I find a replacement.
CS223
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Posted: 5/16/2013 10:59:39 PM
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S_A_C
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Posted: 5/16/2013 11:58:35 PM
Originally Posted By CS223:
See this thread PAI is who you want http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1482174_Square_Dumps_All_Retail_Gun_Dealers.html&page=3


From that very thread it appears PAI not only charges a monthly fee, and a device fee, but they also charge a higher rate for gun companies, and sometimes sieze funds for no reason at all, and even when they do release them take an excessive amount of time to do it.