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imdandman
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Posted: 5/3/2013 3:28:22 PM

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I know they can come and shoot and rent guns etc, but is it legal for them to purchase ammo?

My friend from Korea is staying in Texas and is coming to visit me in Oklahoma. If legal, I was going to have him pick up a few boxes on the way up here since everything is out of stock around here.

I'm assuming that if anything, this would be a question of Federal law and not either states.
FluffyTheCat
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Posted: 5/3/2013 3:32:55 PM



It is not legal--unfortunately. And of course, such an important law should always be obeyed. It would be wrong for me to encourage an otherwise law abiding foreigner to buy ammo.
Bagged milk is iillegal in Alberta.
Ameshawki
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Posted: 5/3/2013 3:33:09 PM
[Last Edit: 5/3/2013 3:33:52 PM by Ameshawki]
Of course. How would the guy at the Walmart counter know someone isn't a citizen.
imdandman
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Posted: 5/3/2013 3:35:24 PM
Originally Posted By FluffyTheCat:



It is not legal--unfortunately. And of course, such an important law should always be obeyed. It would be wrong for me to encourage an otherwise law abiding foreigner to buy ammo.


Interesting. Link?
NorthPolar
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Posted: 5/3/2013 3:37:08 PM
Perfectly legal. Hell a lot of them come from Europe to hunt and buy a rifle here then gift it to the guide.
Dr Zoidberg: A Medical Corporation
FluffyTheCat
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Posted: 5/3/2013 3:38:55 PM
[Last Edit: 5/3/2013 3:42:32 PM by FluffyTheCat]
Originally Posted By NorthPolar:
Perfectly legal. Hell a lot of them come from Europe to hunt and buy a rifle here then gift it to the guide.


It is only legal if the foreigner has a valid hunting license or if the foreigner is in the US to take part in a shooting match. Otherwise it is illegal.


The RCMP's website offers the following advice for Canadians who intend to visit the United States


.http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/information/residents/us-eu-eng.htm

Bagged milk is iillegal in Alberta.
NorthPolar
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Posted: 5/3/2013 3:43:02 PM
Originally Posted By FluffyTheCat:
Originally Posted By NorthPolar:
Perfectly legal. Hell a lot of them come from Europe to hunt and buy a rifle here then gift it to the guide.


It is only legal if the foreigner has a valid hunting license or if the foreigner is in the US to take part in a shooting match. Otherwise it is illegal.



Considering they were buying a rifle and usually a hunting license in the same go, I didn't know that. *shrug*
Dr Zoidberg: A Medical Corporation
Shootist_Jeff
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Posted: 5/3/2013 3:46:46 PM
Originally Posted By FluffyTheCat:
Originally Posted By NorthPolar:
Perfectly legal. Hell a lot of them come from Europe to hunt and buy a rifle here then gift it to the guide.


It is only legal if the foreigner has a valid hunting license or if the foreigner is in the US to take part in a shooting match. Otherwise it is illegal.


The RCMP's website offers the following advice for Canadians who intend to visit the United States


.http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/information/residents/us-eu-eng.htm




Non-residents who have the firearm directly exported to Canada by a U.S. licensed firearms dealer;
Non-residents who have:

a) a valid U.S. State-issued hunting licence or permit or an invitation to a U.S. competitive sports-shooting event,

b) proof of residency in the U.S. for at least 90 days, and

c) an alien or admission number issued by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS);

Law enforcement officers in the U.S. on official business.



Weird. There would be no way to enforce it since most states don't require an ID for ammo purchases. It seems that non-resident aliens "need a reason" even though our rights are supposed to apply to all of those who are within our borders.
India303
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Posted: 5/3/2013 3:47:51 PM
Illegal to buy ammo?

No

Illegal to take the ammo out of the US?

Unless authorized by law, yes.

Your friend would not be in violation of any fed law to buy ammo, but that doesn't mean some store clerk would know that.
FluffyTheCat
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Posted: 5/3/2013 3:49:50 PM



Years ago, I used to buy ammo in the United States. But then the DHS started searching Canadian cars on the way out of the US. Some poor schmoe got caught with some .22 ammo and he got arrested.

It was all over the Canadian Gun Nutz forum.
Bagged milk is iillegal in Alberta.
zum97
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Posted: 5/3/2013 3:50:33 PM
I have always been under the impression that yes it is illegal

however that being said, when I enter the US with firearms (competitions) I am led to believe that I am allowed to then purchase with the documentation that I have. however any ammo purchased in the US CANNOT be exported.

imdandman
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Posted: 5/3/2013 3:50:46 PM
Originally Posted By FluffyTheCat:



Years ago, I used to buy ammo in the United States. But then the DHS started searching Canadian cars on the way out of the US. Some poor schmoe got caught with some .22 ammo and he got arrested.

It was all over the Canadian Gun Nutz forum.


I believe that but it's definitely a different situation than traveling interstate with it in the CONUS.
FluffyTheCat
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Posted: 5/3/2013 3:54:29 PM



In today's political climate, I would not want to be found with ammo anywhere within the United States. ( That is unless, I was going toa take part in some sort of competition)
Bagged milk is iillegal in Alberta.
Interceptor_Knight
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Posted: 5/3/2013 3:54:59 PM
[Last Edit: 5/3/2013 4:14:06 PM by Interceptor_Knight]
n/m..
Today we need a nation of Riflemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom
jwtdiver
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Posted: 5/3/2013 3:55:10 PM
[Last Edit: 5/3/2013 3:58:37 PM by jwtdiver]
Ugh, this keeps coming up and people still aren't getting it right.
If the friend entered on a non-immigrant visa, it is illegal for him to purchase/possess under 18 USC 922 (Ie: student visa, tourist visa, etc.)
It is also illegal for someone to give or sell that individual firearms or ammunition under 18 USC 922 (d)(5)(a) knowing their status.
Renting them a firearm at a shooting range is a violation of 18 USC 922, and yes, people have been prosecuted for it. There was a thread here within the last 2 months from someone in Holland (i think) that was asking a similar question, and I posted links there to the criminal case and court of appeals opinions, as well as ATF's opinion letter on this issue.
There are some exceptions under 18 USC 922(y)(2) if you can meet one of them. 922 (y)(2)(a) states that the prohibition doesnt apply if the nonimmigrant alien is in possession of a hunting license/permit lawfully issued in the U.S., and some people have simply used that route to get around the issue.
If they are here under the visa waiver program, and were not issued an actual visa, they are not considered a prohibited person under 18 USC 922 DOJ (ATF) has issued an opinion letter verifying that visa waiver entries don't qualify.

ETA: There is a customs form that can be used for competitive shooters entering the US, it must be submitted and approved PRIOR to entry, that exempts someone from 18 USC 922 for the purpose of sport/competition shooting.
India303
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Posted: 5/3/2013 3:58:53 PM

Originally Posted By imdandman:
Originally Posted By FluffyTheCat:



Years ago, I used to buy ammo in the United States. But then the DHS started searching Canadian cars on the way out of the US. Some poor schmoe got caught with some .22 ammo and he got arrested.

It was all over the Canadian Gun Nutz forum.


I believe that but it's definitely a different situation than traveling interstate with it in the CONUS.

To be searched leaving the US, you would have been past the last u-turn or exit, so basically mere yards from a land border.

Being a Canadian or Mexican does not make you an expert on immigration, customs, and export laws.

OP, as long as you accompany your Korean friend, AND do not let him take the gun and go off by himself, he will be fine.

Many local cops are also unaware that a non-immigrant can buy ammo, and shoot at a range with a rented or borrowed gun, etc.
dorobuta
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Posted: 5/3/2013 4:07:27 PM
come to AZ, we don't care if you have ammo. We'll even let you carry concealed, or openly, or both.

Originally Posted By FluffyTheCat:



In today's political climate, I would not want to be found with ammo anywhere within the United States. ( That is unless, I was going toa take part in some sort of competition)


If not for physics and law enforcement, I'd be unstoppable.
jwtdiver
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Posted: 5/3/2013 4:24:03 PM
Originally Posted By jwtdiver:
Ugh, this keeps coming up and people still aren't getting it right.
If the friend entered on a non-immigrant visa, it is illegal for him to purchase/possess under 18 USC 922 (Ie: student visa, tourist visa, etc.)
It is also illegal for someone to give or sell that individual firearms or ammunition under 18 USC 922 (d)(5)(a) knowing their status.
Renting them a firearm at a shooting range is a violation of 18 USC 922, and yes, people have been prosecuted for it. There was a thread here within the last 2 months from someone in Holland (i think) that was asking a similar question, and I posted links there to the criminal case and court of appeals opinions, as well as ATF's opinion letter on this issue.
There are some exceptions under 18 USC 922(y)(2) if you can meet one of them. 922 (y)(2)(a) states that the prohibition doesnt apply if the nonimmigrant alien is in possession of a hunting license/permit lawfully issued in the U.S., and some people have simply used that route to get around the issue.
If they are here under the visa waiver program, and were not issued an actual visa, they are not considered a prohibited person under 18 USC 922 DOJ (ATF) has issued an opinion letter verifying that visa waiver entries don't qualify.

ETA: There is a customs form that can be used for competitive shooters entering the US, it must be submitted and approved PRIOR to entry, that exempts someone from 18 USC 922 for the purpose of sport/competition shooting.


Sorry, quoting myself here, but here are the links THIS IS NOT LEGAL TO DO, although you can potentially get around it by getting a hunting permit/license for the alien:
18 USC 922
DOJ / BATF Opinion Letter stating visa waiver entries dont fall under this statute
Moroccan grad student conviction upheld for HOLDING a rented rifle at a shooting range that was rented by his friend, who was there with him
Alex_B69
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Posted: 5/3/2013 4:25:44 PM
Originally Posted By FluffyTheCat:
Originally Posted By NorthPolar:
Perfectly legal. Hell a lot of them come from Europe to hunt and buy a rifle here then gift it to the guide.


It is only legal if the foreigner has a valid hunting license or if the foreigner is in the US to take part in a shooting match. Otherwise it is illegal.


The RCMP's website offers the following advice for Canadians who intend to visit the United States


.http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/information/residents/us-eu-eng.htm



This - tell him to go to Academy if he has a Texas Drivers license and get a hunting license. Then it is legal for him to buy ammo.
"You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas."
Davy Crockett