Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Log In

A valid email is required.
Password is required.
Site Notices
6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 9
Posted: 4/25/2013 6:08:58 AM EDT
im watching some old seasons of PDTV and they are shooting shotguns at Gunsite. Advocating birdshot for HD.

They still teach this?
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 6:11:39 AM EDT
How could that EVER have been acceptable to teach?
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 6:12:11 AM EDT
in
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 6:17:34 AM EDT
...and dual wielding pocket pistols?



Searching for video, but I've seen Ed Head suggest that carrying two .380s and using one in each hand was a viable self defense plan. The man knows a LOT more than me, but still.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 6:58:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:04:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BURN:
in


Going with this.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:07:10 AM EDT
In before Old_Painless' head spins off.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:08:51 AM EDT
I believe that was the show touting the reliability of Hi-point pistols.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:09:12 AM EDT
tag for the rage
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:15:24 AM EDT
I worked there when I was in college back in the mid 2000's and I'll tell you a lot of the old timers would espouse some goofy shit. I didn't hear the birdshot for self defense when I was there so I hope they aren't still teaching that. They did give me a lot of shit for using my "plastic piece of shit" referring to my Glock... but every course I did there my Glock 21 ran flawlessly when countless 1911's on the line would choke.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:16:58 AM EDT
Gunsite seems to like to stick to old school techniques and principles.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:17:53 AM EDT
When did they ever advocate it?
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:19:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/25/2013 7:20:24 AM EDT by fatalerror113]
I have faith that birdshot will be adequate.

No facts or evidence will ever change my mind.



















Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:22:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/25/2013 7:23:05 AM EDT by Bullet_]
Originally Posted By fatalerror113:
I have faith that birdshot will be adequate.

No facts or evidence will ever change my mind.


They all fall to hardball.

45 has twice the knock down power of 9mm.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:28:06 AM EDT
000 buck FTMFW!
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:28:50 AM EDT
They also push the scout rifle.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:29:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bullet_:
Originally Posted By fatalerror113:
I have faith that birdshot will be adequate.

No facts or evidence will ever change my mind.


They all fall to hardball.

45 has twice the knock down power of 9mm.
Bowls them right over does it?

Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:29:26 AM EDT
Who needs birdshot? Two blanks into the air is all you need!

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:29:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bullet_:
Originally Posted By fatalerror113:
I have faith that birdshot will be adequate.

No facts or evidence will ever change my mind.


They all fall to hardball.

45 has twice the knock down power of 9mm.
Pfft...I'll just rack the shotgun and every evil doer in earshot will have a heart attack.

Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:30:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tac45:
I believe that was the show touting the reliability of Hi-point pistols.


I have fired numerous High Point pistols in the last 10 years...I have yet to have a failure to fire with one...

I have only seen a few failure to fires from other people shooting them... and while they are heavy brick like guns that do not compare to Glock, S&W, Colt, FN, Springfield, Kimber, etc...for the money they are a great tool box or tackle box gun...
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:31:53 AM EDT
Depends on what type of bird you have there
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:33:15 AM EDT
Oh yeah, gotta tag this for later.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:34:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:36:38 AM EDT
I have said this nearly every time one of these threads come up and NO ONE has every stepped up to take the Pepsi Challenge. Want to prove it wrong volunteer to take one for the team to prove your confidence in the theory.

Its that fucking simple A load of #7 at house distance will mess your shit up. There have been many people killed with it. Especially in a house.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:36:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/25/2013 7:38:04 AM EDT by AZ_Sky]
I've been there four times over the years (it's only twenty miles up the road from me).
I have never heard any of this birdshot crap.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:39:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Vaux:
In before Old_Painless' head spins off.

Funny, that was my first thought too

I felt a disturbance in the force, and I think it was O_P flipping his desk over in outrage. He has done an awful lot over the years to correct many of the dangerous misconceptions and falsehoods that exist in our realm. That said, some people simply can't be reached...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:39:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/25/2013 7:41:04 AM EDT by Blacktide]
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
I have said this nearly every time one of these threads come up and NO ONE has every stepped up to take the Pepsi Challenge. Want to prove it wrong volunteer to take one for the team to prove your confidence in the theory.

Its that fucking simple A load of #7 at house distance will mess your shit up. There have been many people killed with it. Especially in a house.


Stupid argument. Many people have been killed by many different calibers, methods, objects, etc. You wouldn't want to be slammed in the face with a mallet right? I guess that makes it great for home defense.

Volunteer to let me shoot you with an airsoft rifle to the eyeball at close range. Oh, you don't want me to? Great home defense weapon.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:39:58 AM EDT
I think it was thedoctors308 that said "If you load your gun with birdshot and expect it to work on people, well you probably still have your mittens pinned to your jacket."
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:42:42 AM EDT
As someone who doesnt know any better and thinks logically.. I cant say this doesnt make sense..

Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
I have said this nearly every time one of these threads come up and NO ONE has every stepped up to take the Pepsi Challenge. Want to prove it wrong volunteer to take one for the team to prove your confidence in the theory.

Its that fucking simple A load of #7 at house distance will mess your shit up. There have been many people killed with it. Especially in a house.


Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:47:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AKengineer:

Originally Posted By Bullet_:
Originally Posted By fatalerror113:
I have faith that birdshot will be adequate.

No facts or evidence will ever change my mind.


They all fall to hardball.

45 has twice the knock down power of 9mm.
Bowls them right over does it?


You bet your ass! A single round of 45acp hardball, a Hellfire missile...same damn thing. Learned that in my local gun store.




Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:48:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/25/2013 7:50:35 AM EDT by boltaction-alchemist]
Since I'm in on this early, is there any literature on this?

I took my 12 gauge out to a friends range and tried to get an idea of the maximum effectiveness of bird shot since over penetration is a concern for where I live.
I shot some particle board and dry wall at 10 and 15 feet to see and from my novice uninformed view it looked effective.

15 feet and in were sizable holes in the drywall and particle board, I don't see someone brushing that off after 2-3 of those inside of 15 feet.

But then again I have this horrible habit of remaining open minded and admitting that I don't know everything..
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:52:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Blacktide:
Gunsite seems to like to stick to old school techniques and principles.


What is the recommendation now?
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:52:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:52:36 AM EDT
I seen a buddy get shrapnel in his face because a hi-point fired out of battery. I'll stick with it's a POS.

Originally Posted By BURN:
Originally Posted By tac45:
I believe that was the show touting the reliability of Hi-point pistols.


I have fired numerous High Point pistols in the last 10 years...I have yet to have a failure to fire with one...

I have only seen a few failure to fires from other people shooting them... and while they are heavy brick like guns that do not compare to Glock, S&W, Colt, FN, Springfield, Kimber, etc...for the money they are a great tool box or tackle box gun...


Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:53:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By boltaction-alchemist:
Since I'm in on this early, is there any literature on this?

I took my 12 gauge out to a friends range and tried to get an idea of the maximum effectiveness of bird shot since over penetration is a concern for where I live.
I shot some particle board and dry wall at 10 and 15 feet to see and from my novice uninformed view it looked effective.

15 feet and in were sizable holes in the drywall and particle board, I don't see someone brushing that off after 2-3 of those inside of 15 feet.

But then again I have this horrible habit of remaining open minded and admitting that I don't know everything..


You don't have to know everything - you just need to be able to differentiate between gun shop myths and real facts attained through real experiments, training, and experience. Bird shot for HD is an old gun shop myth, along with racking the slide will scare them away, a 45 round will send someone flying or blow their head off, the mere wind from a .50 round will tear limbs off even if it doesn't make contact, 5.56 rounds are deadly because they tumble on the way to the target, on and on and on.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:55:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tac45:
I seen a buddy get shrapnel in his face because a hi-point fired out of battery. I'll stick with it's a POS.

Originally Posted By BURN:
Originally Posted By tac45:
I believe that was the show touting the reliability of Hi-point pistols.


I have fired numerous High Point pistols in the last 10 years...I have yet to have a failure to fire with one...

I have only seen a few failure to fires from other people shooting them... and while they are heavy brick like guns that do not compare to Glock, S&W, Colt, FN, Springfield, Kimber, etc...for the money they are a great tool box or tackle box gun...




and I have seen the same thing happen with higher end pistols and rifles...
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:01:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Blacktide:
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
I have said this nearly every time one of these threads come up and NO ONE has every stepped up to take the Pepsi Challenge. Want to prove it wrong volunteer to take one for the team to prove your confidence in the theory.

Its that fucking simple A load of #7 at house distance will mess your shit up. There have been many people killed with it. Especially in a house.


Stupid argument. Many people have been killed by many different calibers, methods, objects, etc. You wouldn't want to be slammed in the face with a mallet right? I guess that makes it great for home defense.

Volunteer to let me shoot you with an airsoft rifle to the eyeball at close range. Oh, you don't want me to? Great home defense weapon.


That does seem to be a difficult concept to understand doesn't it.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:04:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By brouhaha:
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
I have said this nearly every time one of these threads come up and NO ONE has every stepped up to take the Pepsi Challenge. Want to prove it wrong volunteer to take one for the team to prove your confidence in the theory.

Its that fucking simple A load of #7 at house distance will mess your shit up. There have been many people killed with it. Especially in a house.


Congrats on the dumbest fucking post of the day.

Of course birdshot will fuck you up. A BB from a Daisy could fuck you up if the shot placement was just right.

But how well does birdshot STOP THE THREAT compared to 00 or 000?



Surely you are not comparing a fucking red rider and a 12 gauge? Dont be a tool . There is always at least one dumbass who says dumb post but no one yet has wanted to take a load from a 12 gauge. SO until someone does STFU.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:05:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
Originally Posted By brouhaha:
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
I have said this nearly every time one of these threads come up and NO ONE has every stepped up to take the Pepsi Challenge. Want to prove it wrong volunteer to take one for the team to prove your confidence in the theory.

Its that fucking simple A load of #7 at house distance will mess your shit up. There have been many people killed with it. Especially in a house.


Congrats on the dumbest fucking post of the day.

Of course birdshot will fuck you up. A BB from a Daisy could fuck you up if the shot placement was just right.

But how well does birdshot STOP THE THREAT compared to 00 or 000?



Surely you are not comparing a fucking red rider and a 12 gauge? Dont be a tool . There is always at least one dumbass who says dumb post but no one yet has wanted to take a load from a 12 gauge. SO until someone does STFU.


you cannot be this f-ing dumb...
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:06:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
Originally Posted By brouhaha:
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
I have said this nearly every time one of these threads come up and NO ONE has every stepped up to take the Pepsi Challenge. Want to prove it wrong volunteer to take one for the team to prove your confidence in the theory.

Its that fucking simple A load of #7 at house distance will mess your shit up. There have been many people killed with it. Especially in a house.


Congrats on the dumbest fucking post of the day.

Of course birdshot will fuck you up. A BB from a Daisy could fuck you up if the shot placement was just right.

But how well does birdshot STOP THE THREAT compared to 00 or 000?



Surely you are not comparing a fucking red rider and a 12 gauge? Dont be a tool . There is always at least one dumbass who says dumb post but no one yet has wanted to take a load from a 12 gauge. SO until someone does STFU.


That is really stupid dude.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:06:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dbd870:
Originally Posted By Blacktide:
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
I have said this nearly every time one of these threads come up and NO ONE has every stepped up to take the Pepsi Challenge. Want to prove it wrong volunteer to take one for the team to prove your confidence in the theory.

Its that fucking simple A load of #7 at house distance will mess your shit up. There have been many people killed with it. Especially in a house.


Stupid argument. Many people have been killed by many different calibers, methods, objects, etc. You wouldn't want to be slammed in the face with a mallet right? I guess that makes it great for home defense.

Volunteer to let me shoot you with an airsoft rifle to the eyeball at close range. Oh, you don't want me to? Great home defense weapon.


That does seem to be a difficult concept to understand doesn't it.


Not an apples to apples comparison if you are not intelligent enough to understand the difference then you have a problem. A 12 gauge will end up doing damage you do not recover from. Tell me the same of the airsoft. Always a bunch of idiots who make silly comparisons here.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:07:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Blacktide:
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
Originally Posted By brouhaha:
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
I have said this nearly every time one of these threads come up and NO ONE has every stepped up to take the Pepsi Challenge. Want to prove it wrong volunteer to take one for the team to prove your confidence in the theory.

Its that fucking simple A load of #7 at house distance will mess your shit up. There have been many people killed with it. Especially in a house.


Congrats on the dumbest fucking post of the day.

Of course birdshot will fuck you up. A BB from a Daisy could fuck you up if the shot placement was just right.

But how well does birdshot STOP THE THREAT compared to 00 or 000?



Surely you are not comparing a fucking red rider and a 12 gauge? Dont be a tool . There is always at least one dumbass who says dumb post but no one yet has wanted to take a load from a 12 gauge. SO until someone does STFU.


That is really stupid dude.


So you think it it was smart to make a comparison between a 12 gauge and an airsoft or a BB gun ? Really? Think about it.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:08:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
Originally Posted By Blacktide:
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
Originally Posted By brouhaha:
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
I have said this nearly every time one of these threads come up and NO ONE has every stepped up to take the Pepsi Challenge. Want to prove it wrong volunteer to take one for the team to prove your confidence in the theory.

Its that fucking simple A load of #7 at house distance will mess your shit up. There have been many people killed with it. Especially in a house.


Congrats on the dumbest fucking post of the day.

Of course birdshot will fuck you up. A BB from a Daisy could fuck you up if the shot placement was just right.

But how well does birdshot STOP THE THREAT compared to 00 or 000?



Surely you are not comparing a fucking red rider and a 12 gauge? Dont be a tool . There is always at least one dumbass who says dumb post but no one yet has wanted to take a load from a 12 gauge. SO until someone does STFU.


That is really stupid dude.


So you think it it was smart to make a comparison between a 12 gauge and an airsoft or a BB gun ? Really? Think about it.


if that's the conclusion you drew, you are even denser than I thought
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:10:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SevenMMmag:
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
Originally Posted By Blacktide:
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
Originally Posted By brouhaha:
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
I have said this nearly every time one of these threads come up and NO ONE has every stepped up to take the Pepsi Challenge. Want to prove it wrong volunteer to take one for the team to prove your confidence in the theory.

Its that fucking simple A load of #7 at house distance will mess your shit up. There have been many people killed with it. Especially in a house.


Congrats on the dumbest fucking post of the day.

Of course birdshot will fuck you up. A BB from a Daisy could fuck you up if the shot placement was just right.

But how well does birdshot STOP THE THREAT compared to 00 or 000?



Surely you are not comparing a fucking red rider and a 12 gauge? Dont be a tool . There is always at least one dumbass who says dumb post but no one yet has wanted to take a load from a 12 gauge. SO until someone does STFU.


That is really stupid dude.


So you think it it was smart to make a comparison between a 12 gauge and an airsoft or a BB gun ? Really? Think about it.


if that's the conclusion you drew, you are even denser than I thought


Its not the conclusion I drew I said a load of bird shot will kill you dead and it will . If you are so dumb that you want to compare a BB gun to a firearm then you are an idiot.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:10:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
Originally Posted By Blacktide:
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
Originally Posted By brouhaha:
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:
I have said this nearly every time one of these threads come up and NO ONE has every stepped up to take the Pepsi Challenge. Want to prove it wrong volunteer to take one for the team to prove your confidence in the theory.

Its that fucking simple A load of #7 at house distance will mess your shit up. There have been many people killed with it. Especially in a house.


Congrats on the dumbest fucking post of the day.

Of course birdshot will fuck you up. A BB from a Daisy could fuck you up if the shot placement was just right.

But how well does birdshot STOP THE THREAT compared to 00 or 000?



Surely you are not comparing a fucking red rider and a 12 gauge? Dont be a tool . There is always at least one dumbass who says dumb post but no one yet has wanted to take a load from a 12 gauge. SO until someone does STFU.


That is really stupid dude.


So you think it it was smart to make a comparison between a 12 gauge and an airsoft or a BB gun ? Really? Think about it.


The key point is the basis of argument, not the supposed effectiveness of the weapons.

Also, all 12 gauge rounds are not created equal and there is a vast disparity in the ballistics and effect on target.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:11:22 AM EDT
Maybe if you're defending your home against a violent gang of crows,,
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:11:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:

Its not the conclusion I drew I said a load of bird shot will kill you dead and it will . If you are so dumb that you want to compare a BB gun to a firearm then you are an idiot.


Yes, a load of bird shot can "kill you dead". The potential certainly is there.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:13:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sharpshooter:


Not an apples to apples comparison if you are not intelligent enough to understand the difference then you have a problem. A 12 gauge will end up doing damage you do not recover from. Tell me the same of the airsoft. Always a bunch of idiots who make silly comparisons here.

I've been shot with birdshot. At the same distance anything from buckshot to any rifle or pistol round would have severely injured me. Birdshot is horrible for shooting people.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:13:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By evnash:
im watching some old seasons of PDTV and they are shooting shotguns at Gunsite. Advocating birdshot for HD.




Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:14:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/25/2013 8:15:50 AM EDT by SevenMMmag]


Its not the conclusion I drew I said a load of bird shot will kill you dead and it will . If you are so dumb that you want to compare a BB gun to a firearm then you are an idiot.


This must be difficult for you. The crux of your argument is "nobody here wants to get shot with birdshot, ergo it makes a good defensive load." Your logical inconsistency is easily debunked.

Nobody here is saying that birdshot WON'T kill you. They are saying that birdshot sucks for home defense because it will not penetrate deeply enough to disrupt vital organs outside of a few yards, and it is easily stopped by things such as a jacket. Real life intruders aren't pieces of paper that you shoot at a range from 3 yards away, nor are they always facing frontally towards you wearing nothing but a t-shirt.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:15:51 AM EDT
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 9
Top Top