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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:01:23 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Let's turn this thread into a guess the OP's age and weight! Age 16 Weight 264 18 / 5'3 / 240 |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:01:31 AM EDT
[#2]
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Let's turn this thread into a guess the OP's age and weight! Age 16 Weight 264 I vote for IQ guess, and I will just say...below the mean. By a very large number. Nick |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:01:33 AM EDT
[#3]
The AK-12 is a Tapco-fucked MAK-90. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/AK-12_Engineering_technologies_international_forum_-_2012_01.jpg[/quote] Mang that thing is fugly. DO NOT WANT |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:01:39 AM EDT
[#4]
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Let's turn this thread into a guess the OP's age and weight! Age 16 Weight 264 I'm gonna say 26 and 319 C cup |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:01:45 AM EDT
[#5]
It's always interesting to read threads like this one.
When people make up stories about this rifle or that one, they quickly reveal that they have no idea what they're posting about. |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:01:47 AM EDT
[#6]
This is also not supposed to be a true AK vs ar Thread, but more of a why hasn the US come up with a AK of their own?(though not an AK model just something with equal or better parts life).
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:04:22 AM EDT
[#7]
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This is also not supposed to be a true AK vs ar Thread, but more of a why hasn the US come up with a AK of their own?(though not an AK model just something with equal or better parts life). Because it's a shitty design in 2013. |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:06:04 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
This is also not supposed to be a true AK vs ar Thread, but more of a why hasn the US come up with a AK of their own?(though not an AK model just something with equal or better parts life). Because we value accuracy. Log back out, then never log in again. |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:07:00 AM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:08:42 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Let's turn this thread into a guess the OP's age and weight! Age 16 Weight 264 13, 5'4" 68#'s |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:08:46 AM EDT
[#11]
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This is also not supposed to be a true AK vs ar Thread, but more of a why hasn the US come up with a AK of their own?(though not an AK model just something with equal or better parts life). Because we value accuracy. Log back out, then never log in again. Accuracy is great but most soldeirs cant hit anything past 300M and are usig weapons with a 3-6,000 round life on them. Ill take a 2MOA ak with 15-30,000+ life on it any day over a .5moa 3-6,000 life M4. We should all want the best for our troops and the M4 is not it. |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:08:59 AM EDT
[#12]
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"Mil-Spec" is the worst thing that has ever happened to AR15 bolt life. Mil-spec is best-spec  According to the .PPT done by socom a heavy use M4A1 bolt is good for 6,000 rounds. Yet you never hear of a AK shearing lugs, not only that but bulgarian barrels are rated for 15,000 rounds in full auto. Ehh whatever. We received 130 brand spankin new M4 MWS carbines right before we deployed. All in cardboard boxes. At least two of the rifles had bolts with broken lugs, right out of the box, I don't remember if a third was found or not. So what? |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:09:53 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Meanwhile Russia has developed the AK-12.... I mean seriously is the 8lug bolt design with a 6,000-10,000 round life the best America can do? It amazes me we cannot move to a better gun with 30,000+ rounds parts life while places like Russia have a gun that is just that, meanwhile they developed the AK-12 making it as ergonomic as the AR-15, allowing for accessories to easily be attached and have a parts life in excess of 25,000 rounds... Amazing that in this country a 6-10,000 round gun is the best we can do. Not to mention the inherent reliability the AK offers over the AR-15(not to say the AR-15 is unreliable, just not AK reliable). 
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:10:38 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is also not supposed to be a true AK vs ar Thread, but more of a why hasn the US come up with a AK of their own?(though not an AK model just something with equal or better parts life). Because we value accuracy. Log back out, then never log in again. Accuracy is great but most soldeirs cant hit anything past 300M and are usig weapons with a 3-6,000 round life on them. Ill take a 2MOA ak with 15-30,000+ life on it any day over a .5moa 3-6,000 life M4. We should all want the best for our troops and the M4 is not it.  |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:11:42 AM EDT
[#15]
Your rifle and your thread belong in the same place.
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:11:57 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
OK, just forget for a minute the debate over AR vs AK. That's not really the issue. The real issue here is that all fully auto firearms designed in the U.S. that weren't total crap were designed by individuals. Think John Browning and Eugene Stoner. The Hughes amendment to the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 made development of fully automatic weapons by anyone other than a large corporation with a defense contract illegal. So now the only weapons development in the U.S. is done by large corporations doing design-by-committee based on meeting some government contract and satisfying some shareholders, instead of some guy in his workshop just trying to come up with the best weapon possible with no restrictions on what he can try and no requirements other than what is in his head. As far as i know, FFL 07 / SOT 02 holders can still develop and manufacture new F/A guns. And they do not Need any govenrment contract for it either. They can build it, test it and Keep it themselves (as a Demo gun for their (even if 1man) buisness, not themselfes actually) or sell it to LEO/GOV whatever. It´s only the mere citizens that can no longer buy it from them. Barrett (IIRC) for instance has built a .22 open bolt machine gun recently and put a Video on YouTube. Others have converted new AR15 Lowers and shown it on YouTube, because they are allowed to do just that as FFL07/SOT02´s. (I seem to remember one of them converted one of the plastic Lowers just to see how well it would hold up) And while it probably is a pain in the ass to become a FFL07 /SOT 02 it IS still possible for a single individual to get that. You´ve got one Thing right though: Joe Shmoe Sixpack can not legally develop the next big Machine gun in his Garage Workshop on a whim on a lazy sunday afternoon since he probably lacks the Permit. Disclaimer: I THINK it´s FFL07/SOT02 but i´m working off of my Memory and it can Play tricks on someone.......
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:12:11 AM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:12:30 AM EDT
[#18]
OP gone full retard.
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:15:00 AM EDT
[#19]
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This IMO is a huge improvement over the AR15. If only a big company could adopt it and pump them out like a raped ape. http://emptormaven.com/img/Robinson_XCR-L_11inch_SBR.jpg OOHHH Me Want one! Staying out ot this mess. I own both. My go to is a light weight AR10 
Ahh the AR10..the only weapon less reliable than the AR-15. Oh now you've done it  Its true, only thing with a worse history than the M16's adoption is the AR-10's tests early on, just look at the M110 SASS talk about a POS, theres a reason no one wants the M110. You don't even know what the fuck you are talking about. http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=46369 
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:15:34 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: OP gone full retard. or logged on to ak47.net |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:15:42 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Let's turn this thread into a guess the OP's age and weight! Age 16 Weight 264 Age 19 Weight 135 I'll buck the trend and go the other way. |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:16:02 AM EDT
[#22]
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Ill take a 2MOA ak with 15-30,000+ life on it any day over a .5moa 3-6,000 life M4. Said no 11B ever. |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:16:20 AM EDT
[#23]
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I'm tempted to apologize about the Tavor threadjack - but since this thread seems to just be trolling, it might actually improve it. What makes it trolling? The fact that I don't agree with everyone else or that facts show the AK is a more durable system than the 6,000 round M4. SOCOM themselves said the M4 is a 6,000 round gun in that 2001 test they did. What did SOCOM say about the AK? 
You are not making any kind of true comparison here. You have cherry-picked one specific AR evaluation, and comparing it against an AK claim. The fact is that the AK supposed reliability (and the AR supposed "unreliability") has been dis-proven over and over again by US troops that have actually used the AR design against the AK design in battle, yet AK fanboys love to keep bleating about it. Plus, you laughing at an AR barrel with 34,000 rounds "only" being able to shoot 2 MOA shows how little you actually understand what you are talking about. 
So I suppose it's POSSIBLE that you are not trolling, but just shockingly ignorant. I guess I gave you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you were just trolling.
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:19:32 AM EDT
[#24]
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... The ejection is really only an issue for lefty shooters. Well, obviously - that's THE central issue with bullpups. And the SteyrAUG and Tavor have a partial solution to that, by being able to MODIFY the weapon for left ejection (but it requires additional parts). Thus my point that the Tavor doesn't really offer anything new over the 1970s design of the AUG. The FN2000 is truly ambidextrous because it has forward ejection, and thus it actually eliminates the main criticism of the bullpup design (but has other problems). Don't get me wrong. I like the Tavor, and I'll probably end up getting one - partly because I am one of the biggest bullpup fans on this site. I just wish people would acknowledge that there's not actually anything new or particularly innovative about the Tavor. It's just an Israeli repackaging of a 70s concepts. Now if they made a PS90 that shot 5.56 we would have something great. 50 round mags, bottom ejection, fully ambi, simple to work on and nice n tiny. The Magpul PDR came damn close. If only.... |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:20:17 AM EDT
[#25]
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OK, just forget for a minute the debate over AR vs AK. That's not really the issue. The real issue here is that all fully auto firearms designed in the U.S. that weren't total crap were designed by individuals. Think John Browning and Eugene Stoner. The Hughes amendment to the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 made development of fully automatic weapons by anyone other than a large corporation with a defense contract illegal. So now the only weapons development in the U.S. is done by large corporations doing design-by-committee based on meeting some government contract and satisfying some shareholders, instead of some guy in his workshop just trying to come up with the best weapon possible with no restrictions on what he can try and no requirements other than what is in his head. As far as i know, FFL 07 / SOT 02 holders can still develop and manufacture new F/A guns. And they do not Need any govenrment contract for it either. They can build it, test it and Keep it themselves (as a Demo gun for their (even if 1man) buisness, not themselfes actually) or sell it to LEO/GOV whatever. It´s only the mere citizens that can no longer buy it from them. Barrett (IIRC) for instance has built a .22 open bolt machine gun recently and put a Video on YouTube. Others have converted new AR15 Lowers and shown it on YouTube, because they are allowed to do just that as FFL07/SOT02´s. (I seem to remember one of them converted one of the plastic Lowers just to see how well it would hold up) And while it probably is a pain in the ass to become a FFL07 /SOT 02 it IS still possible for a single individual to get that. You´ve got one Thing right though: Joe Shmoe Sixpack can not legally develop the next big Machine gun in his Garage Workshop on a whim on a lazy sunday afternoon since he probably lacks the Permit. Disclaimer: I THINK it´s FFL07/SOT02 but i´m working off of my Memory and it can Play tricks on someone....... It may not have made it illegal, but it sure as hell removed the incentive for doing so. Nobody is going to waste money designing something they can't sell. Thanks to Hughes that essentially means it's military or bust. |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:20:36 AM EDT
[#26]
The fuck?
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:23:37 AM EDT
[#27]
Again, you illustrate that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Quoted:
... Accuracy is great but most soldeirs cant hit anything past 300M and are usig weapons with a 3-6,000 round life on them.
Properly trained soldiers can absolutely hit point targets at 500-600 yards all day long. It is part of the training. Again, your ignorance of the topic is showing. ... of course, if you are talking about soldiers equipped with AKs, then you are probably correct.
Ill take a 2MOA ak with 15-30,000+ life on it any day over a .5moa 3-6,000 life M4. What you are talking about is relevant to an individual shooter, NOT to a soldier with an armory and a logistics train behind him. ... and I love how adorable it is that you keep incessantly repeating your cherry picked SOCOM 6,000 round count, even though we all know that's not the realistic measure here.  But keep going, maybe if you repeat it another dozen times, you'll suddenly fool someone.
We should all want the best for our troops and the M4 is not it. The M4 will be replaced by something better. But that is highly unlikely to be some Russian piece of crap. Ask yourself this: WHY IS IT that every nation in the world that can afford to buy the AR system in the last 30 years has adopted that (or some similar weapon), INSTEAD OF various AK alternatives? |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:24:24 AM EDT
[#28]
These 13's are making us 8's look like 1's.
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:25:57 AM EDT
[#29]
I find it ironic that this AK fanboy cannot spell the name of one of time's greatest main battle rifles.
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:26:33 AM EDT
[#30]
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This IMO is a huge improvement over the AR15. If only a big company could adopt it and pump them out like a raped ape. http://emptormaven.com/img/Robinson_XCR-L_11inch_SBR.jpg OOHHH Me Want one! Staying out out this mess. I own both. My go to is a light weight AR10
Ahh the AR10..the only weapon less reliable than the AR-15. Said I'd stay out of this crap. Just one more comment. I've been shooting AR platform rifles since 1969, in Basic Training. Yup, I'm an old man, but I know what works, and what doesn't. Built the majority of my rifles. I'd stack up my .308 against anything you want to shoot. Off hand, and not from a bench. You'd be sniveling when we were done. One thing about you 2013  most all of you have that same "Foot In Mouth" disease.
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:27:08 AM EDT
[#31]
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I'm tempted to apologize about the Tavor threadjack - but since this thread seems to just be trolling, it might actually improve it. What makes it trolling? The fact that I don't agree with everyone else or that facts show the AK is a more durable system than the 6,000 round M4. SOCOM themselves said the M4 is a 6,000 round gun in that 2001 test they did. It's trolling because it's foolish to base the worth of firearm solely on durability, especially when some of your durability figures are... questionable. |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:29:22 AM EDT
[#32]
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This IMO is a huge improvement over the AR15. If only a big company could adopt it and pump them out like a raped ape. http://emptormaven.com/img/Robinson_XCR-L_11inch_SBR.jpg OOHHH Me Want one! Staying out out this mess. I own both. My go to is a light weight AR10
Ahh the AR10..the only weapon less reliable than the AR-15. Said I'd stay out of this crap. Just one more comment. I've been shooting AR platform rifles since 1969, in Basic Training. Yup, I'm an old man, but I know what works, and what doesn't. Built the majority of my rifles. I'd stack up my .308 against anything you want to shoot. Off hand, and not from a bench. You'd be sniveling when we were done. One thing about you 2013 most all of you have that same "Foot In Mouth" disease.
Sweet, I think I just found someone who has me on ignore
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:29:41 AM EDT
[#33]
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The AK-12 is nothing more than an AK-74 with some 1913 rails machined into its components. Yeah, that's some real ground breaking innovation there. So much that the Russian military wouldn't adopt it and it is known to have some significant operating defects. The AK-12 is basically a Tapco fucked AK-74 done on the cheap by a Russian arms maker. I will take the AR/M16 platform any day. It is battlefield proven and has been refined by numerous private enterprises in the US. So youll take a weapon requirin overhaul every 6,000 rounds accordin to SOCOM and heavy amounts of lubricant over a 5.56 AK with 25,000+ parts life requiring little lubricant? Yes. Over the unproven AK variant with significant mechanical defects. I have over 15,000 rounds through my Colt 6520 with no overhaul or parts replacement, and no malfunctions. ETA - my work issued M4 has also worked flawlessly. It has over 7,000 rounds through it with no overhaul or parts replacement. |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:29:57 AM EDT
[#34]
Is OP the return of that 7N6 douche?
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:31:00 AM EDT
[#35]
Well shit, may as well be in
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:32:37 AM EDT
[#36]
We have. It's called an SR15
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:32:50 AM EDT
[#37]
Jan 2013, and straight for the jugular.
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:34:44 AM EDT
[#38]
A question for all.
Would the AR15 have been better off with a bolt similar to the one on the right in the picture below? 
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:35:15 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Let's turn this thread into a guess the OP's age and weight! Age 16 Weight 264 Age 13 - 194# |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:37:12 AM EDT
[#40]
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This is also not supposed to be a true AK vs ar Thread, but more of a why hasn the US come up with a AK of their own?(though not an AK model just something with equal or better parts life). Because we value accuracy. Log back out, then never log in again. Accuracy is great but most soldeirs cant hit anything past 300M and are usig weapons with a 3-6,000 round life on them. Ill take a 2MOA ak with 15-30,000+ life on it any day over a .5moa 3-6,000 life M4. We should all want the best for our troops and the M4 is not it. Where the hell can I find a 2 MOA AK? Furthermore, where the fuck can I get a 1/2MOA M4? I WANT. I can't speak for soldiers because I'm a Marine, But I knew plenty of Marines, including myself, that earned this badge with crossed M1's on it. And it said expert on it too. We constantly made hits a 500 yards with rickity ol' M16A2s that had well over 5-6k rounds through them. 300 yards isn't that far and if your weapon system is ineffective beyond 300 yards you can motherfucking keep that piece of shit. |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:38:48 AM EDT
[#41]
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This is also not supposed to be a true AK vs ar Thread, but more of a why hasn the US come up with a AK of their own?(though not an AK model just something with equal or better parts life). Because we value accuracy. Log back out, then never log in again. Accuracy is great but most soldeirs cant hit anything past 300M and are usig weapons with a 3-6,000 round life on them. Ill take a 2MOA ak with 15-30,000+ life on it any day over a .5moa 3-6,000 life M4. We should all want the best for our troops and the M4 is not it. Where the hell can I find a 2 MOA AK? Furthermore, where the fuck can I get a 1/2MOA M4? I WANT. I can't speak for soldiers because I'm a Marine, But I knew plenty of Marines, including myself, that earned this badge with crossed M1's on it. And it said expert on it too. We constantly made hits a 500 yards with rickity ol' M16A2s that had well over 5-6k rounds through them. 300 yards isn't that far and if your weapon system is ineffective beyond 300 yards you can motherfucking keep that piece of shit. We never shot targets beyond 300m. With more training I have no doubt the majority could have though. |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:39:48 AM EDT
[#42]
Is this therusskibear's troll account?
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:41:59 AM EDT
[#43]
Damn I am late But still in
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:45:04 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: These 13's are making us 8's look like 1's. Welcome to the club!  Application for '00 crew pending... |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:46:49 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is also not supposed to be a true AK vs ar Thread, but more of a why hasn the US come up with a AK of their own?(though not an AK model just something with equal or better parts life). Because we value accuracy. Log back out, then never log in again. Accuracy is great but most soldeirs cant hit anything past 300M and are usig weapons with a 3-6,000 round life on them. Ill take a 2MOA ak with 15-30,000+ life on it any day over a .5moa 3-6,000 life M4. We should all want the best for our troops and the M4 is not it.  "CLICK" |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:48:29 AM EDT
[#46]
delete oops
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:48:59 AM EDT
[#47]
so the AK-12 is an AK-74 with some of the good features from the AR?
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:49:49 AM EDT
[#48]
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SCAR? ACR? Only difference between the AK-12 and an AKM is the stocks and a rail system. Oh yea scar is so american All of the different pimped up AR-180s are basically American in design. |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:52:02 AM EDT
[#49]
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I'm tempted to apologize about the Tavor threadjack - but since this thread seems to just be trolling, it might actually improve it. What makes it trolling? The fact that I don't agree with everyone else or that facts show the AK is a more durable system than the 6,000 round M4. SOCOM themselves said the M4 is a 6,000 round gun in that 2001 test they did. It's trolling because it's foolish to base the worth of firearm solely on durability, especially when some of your durability figures are... questionable. So SOCOM is a questionable source? Thats good to know I can discredit the main people behind such things as the SCAR even though the SCAR did not live up to what it should have only being marginally better than the M4. What we need is a system with the ergo's of the M4 and durability of the AK. Also to the guy who asked would we have been better with an AK style bolt...the answer is yes, 8 weak puny lugs are a horrible idea for anythig but a bolt action. Go find “M4A1 5.56mm Carbine and Related Systems Deficiencies and Solutions,” It says everything about the M4 and its issues. Theres also the dust test that showed other carbines outperforming the M4 even though they share similar parts life. Had the AK been in the dust test it would have passed with nearly zero stoppages. Dont get me wrong, the M4 is a good gun but its time to get us a modern weapon with M4 accuracy and AK durability. |
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Posted: 3/5/2013 10:52:42 AM EDT
[#50]
All I have read is the OP. Now I will skip ahead to the current page to see just how schooled up the OP has become.
ETA: Having read through page 4, I see that a whole bunch of people have told the OP just how wrong he is, yet he remains ignorant of his own free will. |
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