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Posted: 2/14/2013 11:13:54 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
I am absolutely convinced liberalism is a disease.

..that gets steadily worse. Hence the term "Progessive"

Posted: 2/14/2013 11:17:53 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Huh?

You don't support welfare reform that allows those who want to work full time steps to do so?

Are you familiar with the "Welfare Cliff"?

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2012/11-2/welfare%20cliff.jpg

Speed

I know all about this "cliff". I know the system keeps the party of handouts in power.

But for anyone on this type of handout, I simply don't feel sorry for any of them.

Well I do. Some teenager girl w/o much family gets knocked up and now she's fucked, living on the dole for life, despite her work ethic or desire to be a productive member of society.

It's not right, and it's purely because of our flawed welfare system.

Think of how much cash this country could save by simply remediating this one situation and allowing those single mothers to transition to the workforce full time and pay all those taxes?

Think of how much cash this country could save if we incentiveized full time work for those on welfare instead of penalizing it?

Think of the future generations we could save from being brought up in an environment of welfare dependency...

I'm not talking in terms of political idealism; I'm talking about the realities of these programs. They are designed, either by purpose or by default, to keep those who want to work dependent, and give those who don't want to work, no incentive to do so.
Speed

Posted: 2/14/2013 11:18:36 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have zero issue with people that voted with greed in their hearts getting shafted. Anyone that voted for the entitlement king deserve to feel the pain.

Keep blaming it all on the FSA, and the Republicans will keep losing.

The republicans are losing for more than one reason. To name a few:

1) Intellectual dishonesty
2) Lack of a backbone
3) Playing the game by the dems rules
4) Allowing dems to smear them with false accusations
5) Allowing dems to create the discussion
6) Moving left as their platform
7) Not rallying behind each other, except when politically convenient
8) Not fighting back against media bias
9) Being reactionary to everything
10) Creating just as big of a problem with big government, thus reducing the differences in the parties

Some of those are broad and meant to be such, in essence they are all somewhat related, regardless they have allowed themselves to become weakened and divided and are suffering for it. The FSA is certainly part of the picture, as are many other things, I'm specifically commenting on that I will shed no tears for anyone's misfortunes that voted for the current administration. They are getting what they voted for, and what they deserve. Scraps handed to them by the government. IF people become dependent on other people due to their own choices, they by definition have no expectation success or improvement. They are easily misguided sheep of people that deserve to be fenced in a yard and handed whatever their caretaker decides to give them. Their anger should be at the fences that are put around them to contain them, but being sheep they will be angry at whatever their caretaker tells them to be angry at so they can get their next meal.

Posted: 2/14/2013 11:26:12 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Huh?

You don't support welfare reform that allows those who want to work full time steps to do so?
Are you familiar with the "Welfare Cliff"?
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2012/11-2/welfare%20cliff.jpg

Speed

I know all about this "cliff". I know the system keeps the party of handouts in power.

But for anyone on this type of handout, I simply don't feel sorry for any of them.

Well I do. Some teenager girl w/o much family gets knocked up and now she's fucked, living on the dole for life, despite her work ethic or desire to be a productive member of society.
It's not right, and it's purely because of our flawed welfare system.

Think of how much cash this country could save by simply remediating this one situation and allowing those single mothers to transition to the workforce full time and pay all those taxes?
Think of how much cash this country could save if we incentiveized full time work for those on welfare instead of penalizing it?
Think of the future generations we could save from being brought up in an environment of welfare dependency...

I'm not talking in terms of political idealism; I'm talking about the realities of these programs. They are designed, either by purpose or by default, to keep those who want to work dependent, and give those who don't want to work, no incentive to do so.

Speed

I don't disagree with this, but I was raised to "do the right thing". You know, put off getting married until I finish college, don't get pregnant out of wedlock (which you cite above), make good grades, the whole "personal responsibility" thing. This is something my parents taught me, but it was MY CHOICE to follow through with it. You can't force personal responsibility upon people. They have to do it on their own.

Choices. That's what it's all about. It's hard for me to feel sorry for someone who made poor choices when I was careful and "did the right thing."

If it were up to me, I'd do away with SNAP entirely and go back to food being given away purely by church sponsored groups and soup kitchens. I have a single mom as a friend but she's not on the handouts. She moved back in with her parents. She works full time although it's more profitable for her not to. It's again called "doing the right thing."

Posted: 2/14/2013 11:29:45 AM EDT

[#5]

If it were truly a benefit issue, they would have him work 29 hours. At 15 hours, there's more to the story

Posted: 2/14/2013 11:31:47 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
If it were truly a benefit issue, they would have him work 29 hours. At 15 hours, there's more to the story

I'm not entirely sure that is correct. I was at a chain store about 2-3 weeks ago talking with an employee while my wife was looking for something and she told me they had their hours cut to 15-19 hours a week starting the 1st of this year. She used to be a full time employee.

Edit: and she also said if they went over it they would be fired.

Posted: 2/14/2013 11:34:04 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Good for him.

Posted: 2/14/2013 11:35:46 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Good for him.

He wanted it, he got it. Hope he enjoys it

Exactly.

Schadenfreude all up in this bitch.

Fuck Ed. And Fuck BHO.

Posted: 2/14/2013 11:36:30 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The 40 hour work week will be a thing of the past for anyone that works for a large business and is unskilled labor. The FSA only has themselves to thank as they asked for it. Now they will have to work 2 or more jobs, and buy their own health insurance. I don't feel sorry for them one bit.

Negative.
Many, many more people...people who never even considered going on welfare, will find that it's easier and cheaper to work 1 PT job and go on the .gov healthcare plan.

How many people will say to themselves:

So, I can work 50 hours/week, make less money than I did before, and pay more for health insurance?
Or, I can work 25 hrs per week, get "free" health insurance, food stamps, cash benefits, utility assistance, huge EIC checks, and actually have more money in my pocket?

Speed

Bingo.

Posted: 2/14/2013 11:37:07 AM EDT

[#10]

its sad but I think our country will have to hit rock bottom before ignorant people realize communism doesnt work...and that wont be far from now

America's the greatest country in the world - now help me change it

and chaange it he is...into a 3rd world country

Posted: 2/14/2013 11:37:21 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:

If it were truly a benefit issue, they would have him work 29 hours. At 15 hours, there's more to the story

I'm not entirely sure that is correct. I was at a chain store about 2-3 weeks ago talking with an employee while my wife was looking for something and she told me they had their hours cut to 15-19 hours a week starting the 1st of this year. She used to be a full time employee.

Edit: and she also said if they went over it they would be fired.

The intent is to make an employee part time status and no longer pay benefits. I keep hearing 29 hours as the magic number. Anything below the official part time number could mean other economic issues, like a slowdown in that area

Posted: 2/14/2013 11:39:46 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Huh?

You don't support welfare reform that allows those who want to work full time steps to do so?

Are you familiar with the "Welfare Cliff"?

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2012/11-2/welfare%20cliff.jpg
Speed

I know all about this "cliff". I know the system keeps the party of handouts in power.
But for anyone on this type of handout, I simply don't feel sorry for any of them.

Well I do. Some teenager girl w/o much family gets knocked up and now she's fucked, living on the dole for life, despite her work ethic or desire to be a productive member of society.

It's not right, and it's purely because of our flawed welfare system.
Think of how much cash this country could save by simply remediating this one situation and allowing those single mothers to transition to the workforce full time and pay all those taxes?

Think of how much cash this country could save if we incentiveized full time work for those on welfare instead of penalizing it?

Think of the future generations we could save from being brought up in an environment of welfare dependency...
I'm not talking in terms of political idealism; I'm talking about the realities of these programs. They are designed, either by purpose or by default, to keep those who want to work dependent, and give those who don't want to work, no incentive to do so.
Speed

I don't disagree with this, but I was raised to "do the right thing". You know, put off getting married until I finish college, don't get pregnant out of wedlock (which you cite above), make good grades, the whole "personal responsibility" thing. This is something my parents taught me, but it was MY CHOICE to follow through with it. You can't force personal responsibility upon people. They have to do it on their own.
Choices. That's what it's all about. It's hard for me to feel sorry for someone who made poor choices when I was careful and "did the right thing."
If it were up to me, I'd do away with SNAP entirely and go back to food being given away purely by church sponsored groups and soup kitchens. I have a single mom as a friend but she's not on the handouts. She moved back in with her parents. She works full time although it's more profitable for her not to. It's again called "doing the right thing."

And if moving back home wasn't an option?

Would you think less of her for taking that section 8 voucher and using food stamps?

Then what if she couldn't work full time and still keep that section 8 voucher? Should she work full time and live in a homeless shelter or her car on moral principals? Would you do that?
Anyway, I agree with you that we don't have the emphasis on personal responsibility in our society any longer.

The sad truth is that these programs exist and people will use them. If they were managed as a legitimate temporary measure, we wouldn't be having this conversation. People like single moms who made a mistake and got knocked up when they were 17 could use the programs, then transition to full time employment... but that's not often a realistic option.
That is solely because of the mismanagement of entitlement programs; not a lack of work ethic or morals.
We can't go back to the 1950's where teen pregnancy was a horrible red scarlet type affair. We don't have the family structure in place in our society like we used to. These programs have created and perpetuate an environment of dependance, consuming even those who could otherwise be productive members of society had the programs not been structured in such a fashion. What can we do to lessen this dependency and save taxpayers money should be the question we as conservatives ask ourselves?

You don't even have to feel bad for people to contemplate this, just objectively look at the problems

Speed

Posted: 2/14/2013 11:41:23 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Good for him.

He wanted it, he got it. Hope he enjoys it

Exactly.

You reap what you sow, and all that.

Posted: 2/14/2013 11:41:50 AM EDT

[#14]

No matter what happens, it will still be Bush and the evil republicans who are the cause.

Posted: 2/14/2013 11:42:56 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
He voted for it , now it's a reality for him. Hope he enjoys the ride.

yup better be careful what you vote you just might get it!

Posted: 2/14/2013 11:45:04 AM EDT

[#16]

Just damn.

Posted: 2/14/2013 11:45:09 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:

They couldn't get Obama's dream of single payer health insurance through, so they create an environment that bankrupts the healthcare insurance industry and forced government to "bail out" the players, creating a de facto single payer system.

Speed

Yep. This was the end-state from the word "Go!"

Yes it was.

I have a friend who is a manager with BCBS. I asked him what he and his coworkers thought about Obamacare, and he said that while he didn't agree with it in principle and didn't like Obama, that the general mood was excitement that they're going to have a lot more business.

I said "Don't you see? The whole purpose of this law is to drive you out of business." He didn't see. He does now.

Posted: 2/14/2013 11:47:36 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
I have a liberal coworker that informed me that what employers have been doing to avoid having to pay for Obamacare should be illegal and they need a new law to make it necessary for companies to only hire full time employees... Where does socialism stop

it doesn't from here it goes to brownshirts and showers.

Posted: 2/14/2013 11:53:17 AM EDT

[#19]

He got what he voted for, too fucking bad.

Sadly, we are all going to get fucked in this whole process also.

Posted: 2/14/2013 11:55:47 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

I don't disagree with this, but I was raised to "do the right thing". You know, put off getting married until I finish college..."

Interesting. That's a new one to me. Wife and I both were students when we married. Both graduated without a cent of school debt.

Now from experience I can understand the challenges associated with starting a family and finishing college at the same time, but I was never aware of it being an issue of morality or responsibility.

Posted: 2/14/2013 11:56:51 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

And if moving back home wasn't an option?
Would you think less of her for taking that section 8 voucher and using food stamps?
Then what if she couldn't work full time and still keep that section 8 voucher? Should she work full time and live in a homeless shelter or her car on moral principals? Would you do that?

Anyway, I agree with you that we don't have the emphasis on personal responsibility in our society any longer.
The sad truth is that these programs exist and people will use them. If they were managed as a legitimate temporary measure, we wouldn't be having this conversation. People like single moms who made a mistake and got knocked up when they were 17 could use the programs, then transition to full time employment... but that's not often a realistic option.

That is solely because of the mismanagement of entitlement programs; not a lack of work ethic or morals.

We can't go back to the 1950's where teen pregnancy was a horrible red scarlet type affair. We don't have the family structure in place in our society like we used to. These programs have created and perpetuate an environment of dependance, consuming even those who could otherwise be productive members of society had the programs not been structured in such a fashion. What can we do to lessen this dependency and save taxpayers money should be the question we as conservatives ask ourselves?
You don't even have to feel bad for people to contemplate this, just objectively look at the problems

Speed

I never thought about "what I'd do" because I was always too busy doing what I should: Preventing pregnancy and finishing school and working my hump off. There simply was no other option. Had I gone the other way, there would have been tons of personal and family "shame". I guess you could say my family is a bunch of conservatives and they'd not have liked it a bit if I had a baby at 17 or not finished school. In fact, I'd say my father absolutely would NOT have stood for it. Shame would have been an understatement.

I also think we both can agree there are a TON of people out there who didn't have kids in the manner in which you describe. There are a lot of women with 4 kids with different dads. Until the system is made fair so that these women get punished for using the system, they will keep right on doing what they do best--and we all know that involves having another child, collecting more of "our" tax dollars, not working at all, not getting an education, and making money "under the table". Incidentally, I see these type of women on the evening news crying over their son being shot ("He were a good boy") when his rap sheet is as long as my arm.

Posted: 2/14/2013 11:57:32 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I don't disagree with this, but I was raised to "do the right thing". You know, put off getting married until I finish college..."

Interesting. That's a new one to me. Wife and I both were students when we married. Both graduated without a cent of school debt.

Now from experience I can understand the challenges associated with starting a family and finishing college at the same time, but I was never aware of it being an issue of morality or responsibility.

My parents repeated this to me multiple times.
It was a NO GO at being married and being in college simultaneously.
I think the thinking was that they thought if they let me marry, I wouldn't finish since that's what happened to them.
They married, and only got 2 years under their belts. My parents demanded 4 or greater.

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:04:17 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I don't disagree with this, but I was raised to "do the right thing". You know, put off getting married until I finish college..."

Interesting. That's a new one to me. Wife and I both were students when we married. Both graduated without a cent of school debt.

Now from experience I can understand the challenges associated with starting a family and finishing college at the same time, but I was never aware of it being an issue of morality or responsibility.

My parents repeated this to me multiple times.
It was a NO GO at being married and being in college simultaneously.
I think the thinking was that they thought if they let me marry, I wouldn't finish since that's what happened to them.
They married, and only got 2 years under their belts. My parents demanded 4 or greater.

My wife graduated with a dual major and a bun in the oven.

The advice I got as a kid, especially from my grandma, was along the lines of "if a woman tells you that she doesn't want kids, you BELIEVE HER!" The context was that I end any thoughts of pursuing a relationship with her.

My wife did encounter pressure from her mom not to have a baby while in college.

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:09:37 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:

And if moving back home wasn't an option?

Would you think less of her for taking that section 8 voucher and using food stamps?

Then what if she couldn't work full time and still keep that section 8 voucher? Should she work full time and live in a homeless shelter or her car on moral principals? Would you do that?

Anyway, I agree with you that we don't have the emphasis on personal responsibility in our society any longer.

The sad truth is that these programs exist and people will use them. If they were managed as a legitimate temporary measure, we wouldn't be having this conversation. People like single moms who made a mistake and got knocked up when they were 17 could use the programs, then transition to full time employment... but that's not often a realistic option.

That is solely because of the mismanagement of entitlement programs; not a lack of work ethic or morals.

We can't go back to the 1950's where teen pregnancy was a horrible red scarlet type affair. We don't have the family structure in place in our society like we used to. These programs have created and perpetuate an environment of dependance, consuming even those who could otherwise be productive members of society had the programs not been structured in such a fashion. What can we do to lessen this dependency and save taxpayers money should be the question we as conservatives ask ourselves?

You don't even have to feel bad for people to contemplate this, just objectively look at the problems

Speed

I never thought about "what I'd do" because I was always too busy doing what I should: Preventing pregnancy and finishing school and working my hump off. There simply was no other option. Had I gone the other way, there would have been tons of personal and family "shame". I guess you could say my family is a bunch of conservatives and they'd not have liked it a bit if I had a baby at 17 or not finished school. In fact, I'd say my father absolutely would NOT have stood for it. Shame would have been an understatement.

I also think we both can agree there are a TON of people out there who didn't have kids in the manner in which you describe. There are a lot of women with 4 kids with different dads. Until the system is made fair so that these women get punished for using the system, they will keep right on doing what they do best--and we all know that involves having another child, collecting more of "our" tax dollars, not working at all, not getting an education, and making money "under the table". Incidentally, I see these type of women on the evening news crying over their son being shot ("He were a good boy") when his rap sheet is as long as my arm.

I hear you on the shame, but not everyone (especially a lot of unwed teen mothers) have a stable home environment where "shame" from the family would be an issue

But, I wasn't addressing welfare abuse, I was talking about how our welfare systems "trap" people who would otherwise gladly work full time.

We can't (or at the very least, our elected representatives won't) eliminate the programs altogether, and we'll never totally get rid of the abuse, but we CAN take steps to correct the management of these programs that curbs some abuse and allows a pathway off of dependance for those who want it.

This is easily achievable, but it's not put into practice. In fact, we see quite the opposite: commercials advertising the joy of food stamps, paid "community organizers" who teach folks how to get the most from the system, and a media that seeks to remove any negative stigma from collective government assistance.

THIS is our real problem, and it's still correctable at some level.

Speed

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:13:35 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I don't disagree with this, but I was raised to "do the right thing". You know, put off getting married until I finish college..."

Interesting. That's a new one to me. Wife and I both were students when we married. Both graduated without a cent of school debt.

Now from experience I can understand the challenges associated with starting a family and finishing college at the same time, but I was never aware of it being an issue of morality or responsibility.

My parents repeated this to me multiple times.
It was a NO GO at being married and being in college simultaneously.
I think the thinking was that they thought if they let me marry, I wouldn't finish since that's what happened to them.
They married, and only got 2 years under their belts. My parents demanded 4 or greater.

My wife graduated with a dual major and a bun in the oven.

The advice I got as a kid, especially from my grandma, was along the lines of "if a woman tells you that she doesn't want kids, you BELIEVE HER!" The context was that I end any thoughts of pursuing a relationship with her.

My wife did encounter pressure from her mom not to have a baby while in college.

My parents always knew my feelings on kids.

I've said this before and I'll repeat it again in case you've not already seen me say it before. I think it all started because I was expected to function "as a grown up" when I was only a child. I didn't have a childhood, was a latchkey child from about the age of 9 or so. Even as a child, I didn't like other kids, especially for how they acted and behaved. I just was never interested in being a mother. I was the only person I knew who had TWO parents that worked while we were so young. Education was HEAVILY emphasized. We were point blank told we would finish college, or we could pack our things and GTFO.

My parents view it as neither good nor bad. It just simply "Is". I can see where your feelings about family and kids is rooted in your religious beliefs, but that type of rooting isn't as present in the Protestant faith.

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:16:42 PM EDT

[#26]

Elections have consequences. Too bad it took Ed 50 years to figure that out.

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:17:37 PM EDT

[#27]

I was reading a Buzzfeed article about how Obama's policies will screw over the people who supported him the most aside from fellow blacks: People under age 29.

After reading through what's coming Ben Smith wrote something to the effect of "Obamacare critics and Republicans warned of the unintentional and destructive consequences, but their criticisms weren't taken seriously because they reflexively oppose everything Obama wants."

http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/obama-healthcare-young-people

Oh, here's what he wrote:

The voices raised against age rating and other policies tend not to be the most credible. They are, first, conservatives who simply see this as another wedge against Obama and his new policy. Outlandish rhetoric about the health-care law's threat to American freedom can make it hard for members of either party to consider policy on the merits

I guess the rhetoric wasn't that outlandish after all, was it Mr. Lib Reporter?

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:18:41 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
I stopped by Lowes on my way to work this morning to grab a couple things. There's a guy there named Ed, nice guy probably mid 50s, who I'd chat with whenever I stopped in. I hadn't seen him the last couple time I was there; well this morning he’s there and informs me his hours had been cut from 40/week to 15!!! Lost his healthcare benefits, sick and vacation time were chopped. He was pissed and said OBAMACARE was to blame (DUH). So we talked politics (for the first time) and he said a Dem and confessed he voted for Obama. I told him it sucks but unfortunately he only had himself to blame. Went into my whole Obama spiel and didn’t hold back. I said if I were you I pass the word on because you ain’t seen nothing yet.

Guess they'll have to learn the hard way!!!

Obamacare is doing exactly what it was planned to do.

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:22:16 PM EDT

[#29]

Elections have consequences. And most consequences, like this one, was foreseeable. I hope he is happy. Especially since he'll have a lot more time on his hands; twenty five hours more a week.

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:25:00 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The 40 hour work week will be a thing of the past for anyone that works for a large business and is unskilled labor. The FSA only has themselves to thank as they asked for it. Now they will have to work 2 or more jobs, and buy their own health insurance. I don't feel sorry for them one bit.

Negative.
Many, many more people...people who never even considered going on welfare, will find that it's easier and cheaper to work 1 PT job and go on the .gov healthcare plan.

How many people will say to themselves:

So, I can work 50 hours/week, make less money than I did before, and pay more for health insurance?
Or, I can work 25 hrs per week, get "free" health insurance, food stamps, cash benefits, utility assistance, huge EIC checks, and actually have more money in my pocket?

Speed

You realize this was by design, right?

Yep. Anyone who doesn't recognize this is part of the problem. They know their base is uneducated, they know a raise of minimum wage is bad for the economy but are aware that their consituency doesn't have the capacity to understand the bigger picture. They can pursue a full socialist agenda, as long as they preach that Rs don't care about the poor. They want as many Americans dependant on it, as it keeps their asses in power. Modern day slavery, under the guise of "freedom". Pretty amazing what we've become.

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:25:43 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:

They couldn't get Obama's dream of single payer health insurance through, so they create an environment that bankrupts the healthcare insurance industry and forced government to "bail out" the players, creating a de facto single payer system.

Speed

Yep. This was the end-state from the word "Go!"

Yes it was.

I have a friend who is a manager with BCBS. I asked him what he and his coworkers thought about Obamacare, and he said that while he didn't agree with it in principle and didn't like Obama, that the general mood was excitement that they're going to have a lot more business.

I said "Don't you see? The whole purpose of this law is to drive you out of business." He didn't see. He does now.

I have a friend who is a big time lib and works for BCBS. I think they believe that we're going to big insurance combines like BCBS and Kaiser as functional sub-contractors for a .gov single payer program.

She's positively giddy.

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:31:09 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The 40 hour work week will be a thing of the past for anyone that works for a large business and is unskilled labor. The FSA only has themselves to thank as they asked for it. Now they will have to work 2 or more jobs, and buy their own health insurance. I don't feel sorry for them one bit.

Negative.
Many, many more people...people who never even considered going on welfare, will find that it's easier and cheaper to work 1 PT job and go on the .gov healthcare plan.

How many people will say to themselves:

So, I can work 50 hours/week, make less money than I did before, and pay more for health insurance?
Or, I can work 25 hrs per week, get "free" health insurance, food stamps, cash benefits, utility assistance, huge EIC checks, and actually have more money in my pocket?

Speed

I wish it wasn't true, but sadly it is.

The government has literally made it the rational choice to work less and leech off the producers in society.

I've personally witnessed this exact scenario play out w/ single mothers. They work as much as they can w/o losing their benefits. They go to school and get degrees, hoping to find a professional enough position that will allow them to get off welfare, but the free healthcare, daycare, food stamps, cash assistance, housing vouchers, etc...make it almost impossible to transition to a full time job and still pay their bills.

They basically need to find a $60k+ job w/ full medical and daycare right off the bat. They do not allow the mothers to get partial benefits in the daycare, housing, and healthcare areas to transition to working. I've seen women crying about this, ashamed to be on welfare, but trapped by it

Speed

Here in PRoNY the break even point for a woman with 3 kids is over $90K. Who is going from welfare to a 90K job?!

Also, P/T workers were dropped down to 15-19 hours because it adds flexibility to the store so that they can add hours when needed without having a person go over the magical 29 hour mark. When I worked retail I was hired at 20 hrs per week, scheduled for like 14 and upticked when we were doing bi-annual inventory/holidays/etc.

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:38:44 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Good for him.

And for you (with less sarcasm). I really do believe that most people are too stupid to understand what they accomplished when they voted Obama back in to office. Maybe a rant coupled with some current bad feelings will wake this young man up to the real world. Maybe he will vote Republican conservative against the Democrats from now on.

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:41:10 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Sucks for Ed that he had to learn the hard way. Sucks worse, though, for the rest of us that knew what was coming...

Some have found a way to twist Bush into this. I bet he will.

It's easy, it's Bush's fault. Who needs logic in this argument.

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:41:24 PM EDT

[#35]

See sigline.

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:45:17 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Good for him.

Good for him as he received what he bargained for. Good for you for telling him.

Reality sucks for Democrat supporters lately.

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:51:22 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Good for him.

Yep

OP should have asked "how's that change workin' for ya?"

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:51:32 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
See sigline.

Truth.

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:52:05 PM EDT

[#39]

Even "Joe the plumber" seen obama as a commie. Ed learned hard way

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:53:01 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The 40 hour work week will be a thing of the past for anyone that works for a large business and is unskilled labor. The FSA only has themselves to thank as they asked for it. Now they will have to work 2 or more jobs, and buy their own health insurance. I don't feel sorry for them one bit.

Negative.
Many, many more people...people who never even considered going on welfare, will find that it's easier and cheaper to work 1 PT job and go on the .gov healthcare plan.

How many people will say to themselves:

So, I can work 50 hours/week, make less money than I did before, and pay more for health insurance?
Or, I can work 25 hrs per week, get "free" health insurance, food stamps, cash benefits, utility assistance, huge EIC checks, and actually have more money in my pocket?

Speed

I wish it wasn't true, but sadly it is.

The government has literally made it the rational choice to work less and leech off the producers in society.

I've personally witnessed this exact scenario play out w/ single mothers. They work as much as they can w/o losing their benefits. They go to school and get degrees, hoping to find a professional enough position that will allow them to get off welfare, but the free healthcare, daycare, food stamps, cash assistance, housing vouchers, etc...make it almost impossible to transition to a full time job and still pay their bills.

They basically need to find a $60k+ job w/ full medical and daycare right off the bat. They do not allow the mothers to get partial benefits in the daycare, housing, and healthcare areas to transition to working. I've seen women crying about this, ashamed to be on welfare, but trapped by it

Speed

Bullcrap, if they were REALLY ashamed, they would suck it up, take the financial hit, and get off the dole. It's a nice story they hold on to but it doesn't tug at my heart strings because they would rather mooch then be responsible for themselves.

Society seems to always be willing to accept the notion that women deserve to be treated different and that they can't be held responsible for not sucking it up while men are derided if they don't suck it up.

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:54:04 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
I have zero issue with people that voted with greed in their hearts getting shafted. Anyone that voted for the entitlement king deserve to feel the pain.

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:55:48 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
I have zero issue with people that voted with greed in their hearts getting shafted. Anyone that voted for the entitlement king deserve to feel the pain.

Yeah, but when talking to them it is best to try to educate. You might be able to get through to them.

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:58:30 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The 40 hour work week will be a thing of the past for anyone that works for a large business and is unskilled labor. The FSA only has themselves to thank as they asked for it. Now they will have to work 2 or more jobs, and buy their own health insurance. I don't feel sorry for them one bit.

Negative.

Many, many more people...people who never even considered going on welfare, will find that it's easier and cheaper to work 1 PT job and go on the .gov healthcare plan.

How many people will say to themselves:

So, I can work 50 hours/week, make less money than I did before, and pay more for health insurance?

Or, I can work 25 hrs per week, get "free" health insurance, food stamps, cash benefits, utility assistance, huge EIC checks, and actually have more money in my pocket?

Speed

I wish it wasn't true, but sadly it is.

The government has literally made it the rational choice to work less and leech off the producers in society.

I've personally witnessed this exact scenario play out w/ single mothers. They work as much as they can w/o losing their benefits. They go to school and get degrees, hoping to find a professional enough position that will allow them to get off welfare, but the free healthcare, daycare, food stamps, cash assistance, housing vouchers, etc...make it almost impossible to transition to a full time job and still pay their bills.

They basically need to find a $60k+ job w/ full medical and daycare right off the bat. They do not allow the mothers to get partial benefits in the daycare, housing, and healthcare areas to transition to working. I've seen women crying about this, ashamed to be on welfare, but trapped by it

Speed

Bullcrap, if they were REALLY ashamed, they would suck it up, take the financial hit, and get off the dole. It's a nice story they hold on to but it doesn't tug at my heart strings because they would rather mooch then be responsible for themselves.

Society seems to always be willing to accept the notion that women deserve to be treated different and that they can't be held responsible for not sucking it up while men are derided if they don't suck it up.

The point isn't about single moms on welfare per se; it's about our welfare system and how it punishes those who want to work full time and rewards those who don't work.

You can read all my other posts above this one for more explanation.

Speed

Posted: 2/14/2013 12:59:53 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
So question, and i apologize if im hijacking the thread, but is this going to be the precedent for all companies? kick everyone to part time to avoid having to pay health care? And is this going to be everywhere, or more retail job related. Just kind of getting nervous as im about to graduate college with a software engineering degree. I have never been one to take a free ride on .gov stuffs but im worried about providing for my family.

More retail related. Engineering is different.

That said, we are in for a bunch of hurt, expect competition in the job search.

Posted: 2/14/2013 1:00:36 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

The point isn't about single moms on welfare per se; it's about our welfare system and how it punishes those who want to work full time and rewards those who don't work.
You can read all my other posts above this one for more explanation.

Speed

But he's echoing what I said about feeling sorry for this group.

Posted: 2/14/2013 1:02:02 PM EDT

[#46]

Did you lick his tears?

Posted: 2/14/2013 1:03:37 PM EDT

[#47]

With the election of O and the complicitness of the media, most do not realize the paradighm shit that occurred. The media will keep explaining that any issues are bush related or non issues.

The problem is that low info voters don't realize that the media isn't presenting news, but instead propaganda.

Posted: 2/14/2013 1:04:41 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The point isn't about single moms on welfare per se; it's about our welfare system and how it punishes those who want to work full time and rewards those who don't work.

You can read all my other posts above this one for more explanation.

Speed

But he's echoing what I said about feeling sorry for this group.

Yes, you guy's heartless anger is noted, lol

I was using the single mom as an example (and a good one) of the biggest problem w/ our entitlement programs.

If you can detach yourself from the disgust you feel for those who made poor decisions you worked hard to avoid, you can see the point I'm getting at

Speed

Posted: 2/14/2013 1:05:49 PM EDT

[#49]

Hours wise, the same thing happened to my 20 year old nephew who works at Sam;s Club. He had his own apt, and was enjoying the life of being independent and young. He may have to move back with his dad now. Thank you Obama administration. I'm sure this will be an up and coming trend, and whoever said you ain't seen nothing yet was sure correct!

My nephew didn't vote for Obama, but he is paying the price for those who did.

Thank all the ass clowns who voted a second term.

Posted: 2/14/2013 1:06:26 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
How is Obamacare to blame for his hours reduction? I am not arguing, just asking.

If you work over 29 hours you must be on an approved healthcare plan or the company pays a fine.

So they have to decide: fine? or part time?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ObamaCare Hitting Home with LOWES Employee. (Page 3 of 5)

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