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Justa_TXguy
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Posted: 2/3/2013 6:21:08 PM
On the one hand, fuck bullshit tax credits. On the other, inviting the government into your life and your job seems like a bad idea.

I can't decide if I'm board with this.
"Might go for a little zombie pie but im still gonna have to say no to fat chicks." -- Originally Posted By Krink
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Posted: 2/3/2013 6:39:24 PM
Seems to me that the 'client' knew he was scamming the system and was encouraged by the tax filing company: to that end, you (as a good person doing the right thing had a duty (not to mention to CYA) to report this mis-doing. If your company comes back at you, there are 'whistle blowing' laws for your protection. My understanding (poor that it is) is that the IRS has a system in place to reward you for your reporting of this kind of mis-deed although it that does not seem to be your motivation.
Best of luck - I think you did do the right and honorable thing.
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Posted: 2/3/2013 7:03:37 PM
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By FS-FNRL:
I have not read the entire post so this might have already come up: I thought if you found tax fraud and reported it and filed the right form with the IRS you could get 15% finders fee. so 15% of $40k is a few a bunch of loans paid.


15% minus plus self-respect times integrity


FIFY.

From family experience, you can make a very good living as a CPA with integrity. Yeah, occasionally there might be some rather extended job searches, but my dad's done pretty well all in all.
mcornell
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Posted: 2/3/2013 7:14:47 PM
The part that not everyone seems to get is that it was a violation of the professional ethics of the tax preparer to disclose to the IRS the name and social security number of a client AND the fact that the prior returns were fraudulent.

Sure, the tax prep company may pay the interest and penalties (but not the tax that has to be repaid). But the client isn't going to have the $40,000 to repay the taxes.

If I were the employer, I would report the employee to the IRS and request that the IRS discipline the employee for violation of the privilege. That is going to leave a mark of our OP's career that may not buff out.

There is going to be a world of pain in a bunch of people's futures.
The best part of all your self-inflicted drama is how happy it makes you.. how you're deeply fulfilled to your core, and how it makes you a better human being. It's freaking inspirational. - MMcCall
bcsoeod
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Posted: 2/3/2013 7:23:17 PM
You did the right thing OP
If our government refuses to obey the constitution.....then what is treason??????

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Posted: 2/3/2013 7:44:54 PM
Right or wrong to Me you are a Rat

I wouldn't ever feel safe around you

Lets hope things don't get real rough in this country, I could see it being like Arkansas in the Civil War,

or Italy during WW2.........
eesmith
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Posted: 2/3/2013 8:39:20 PM
Originally Posted By WinterBorn:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By FS-FNRL:
I have not read the entire post so this might have already come up: I thought if you found tax fraud and reported it and filed the right form with the IRS you could get 15% finders fee. so 15% of $40k is a few a bunch of loans paid.


15% minus plus self-respect times integrity


FIFY.

From family experience, you can make a very good living as a CPA with integrity. Yeah, occasionally there might be some rather extended job searches, but my dad's done pretty well all in all.



Integrity is turning a client away when asked to do something illegal, NOT taking information disclosed in a paid professional and privileged position and using it to turn around and narc your trusting client out to the feds.

OP fucked his client and stabbed his employer in the back, word gets around in a community about people like that.
Originally Posted By Aimless:
I have become to suspect that some accounts on this site are nothing more than tongue in cheek performance art.

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Posted: 2/3/2013 8:53:26 PM
Doing the right thing doesn't always mean somebody is going to pat you on the back and tell you what a great guy you are.

Good for you.
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Josh
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Posted: 2/3/2013 9:41:41 PM
Originally Posted By tax_monster:

[snip]
Many years ago I had a chick who was an illegal (since she had an ITIN and not a SSN) and her kids had ITINs. I did the return and she was pretty unhappy with the result. She wanted to know where her big refund was. I explained that because she was illegal, as were her kids and they all had ITINs, they didn't get the EIC as they didn't qualify. She got upset and demanded her paperwork back, saying she would take it somewhere else that would get her a big refund. I have to wonder how the IRS would even allow the EIC for someone using ITINs, regardless of what the preparer put into the system.





You do realize that ITIN != illegal, right?

ITINs may be issued to illegals, but that is not their purpose. Their purpose is for people who are not eligible for Social Security but have a tax liability. People who don't even live in the US have ITINs if they have income derived from US sources that they have to pay taxes on.
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Posted: 2/3/2013 11:34:33 PM
Hey OP, what would you charge to do my taxes this year?

Actually, you should include this accomplishment in your resume.

"In 2013 I reported a hood rat who was supporting half his retarded extended family to the IRS and fucked him out of $40,000! I am comfortably smug with my integrity."
كافر
sherrick13
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Posted: 2/4/2013 12:14:39 AM
[Last Edit: 2/4/2013 12:16:11 AM by sherrick13]

Originally Posted By Lockstep:
Right or wrong to Me you are a Rat

I wouldn't ever feel safe around you

Lets hope things don't get real rough in this country, I could see it being like Arkansas in the Civil War,

or Italy during WW2.........





So if your neighbor sees a kid down the street steal shit from your house, you'd be pissed if your neighbor told the cops and you would consider him a 'rat'?



You do know those REFUNDABLE credits came partly out of YOUR pocket, right?
2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 no economic collapse has happened yet. Be happy, live your life. :-)
1Andy2
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Posted: 2/4/2013 1:06:18 AM
Originally Posted By sherrick13:

Originally Posted By Lockstep:
Right or wrong to Me you are a Rat

I wouldn't ever feel safe around you

Lets hope things don't get real rough in this country, I could see it being like Arkansas in the Civil War,

or Italy during WW2.........





So if your neighbor sees a kid down the street steal shit from your house, you'd be pissed if your neighbor told the cops and you would consider him a 'rat'?



You do know those REFUNDABLE credits came partly out of YOUR pocket, right?


lol, don't rob the government.... they don't like the competition, right?
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Renegade13B
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Posted: 2/4/2013 1:22:21 AM
[Last Edit: 2/4/2013 1:33:21 AM by Renegade13B]
Originally Posted By SiVisPacem:
I graduated with a Bachelor's in Accounting last August, but haven't had any luck finding a job. So, I took a seasonal tax preparer / office manager position with a national tax prep service.

blaw blaw blaw

I decided to blow the whistle and tell the IRS. I called the Inspector General's office on Thursday, who told me to send them an e-mail with the details.


Good luck finding work in accounting ever again!
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Posted: 2/4/2013 1:36:39 AM
I have an accounting degree. My roommate's girlfriend is baby momma with 3 kids from different guys, none of which are his. She hasn't worked a day in four months, yet they claim she made $50,000 as a nurse, which they also claim is too much money for her to get any tax benefit from claiming her kids, so he is claiming her kids. I told him he can't claim her kids, since he provided zero support and they didn't live with him for one day, but he went to Liberty Tax and they told him he could. He is a big Obama supporter and says everyone that makes more money than him should pay more taxes, but he shouldn't. I may just have to do some whistling myself.
outofstep
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Posted: 2/4/2013 1:44:02 AM
People actually saying "mind your own business" when it's part of his damn job? lol

People calling him a rat for stopping FSA defrauding the government? lol


The lady doth protest too much, methinks. More than sums up those replies.
tax_monster
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Posted: 2/4/2013 3:40:42 AM
Originally Posted By Josh:
Originally Posted By tax_monster:

[snip]
Many years ago I had a chick who was an illegal (since she had an ITIN and not a SSN) and her kids had ITINs. I did the return and she was pretty unhappy with the result. She wanted to know where her big refund was. I explained that because she was illegal, as were her kids and they all had ITINs, they didn't get the EIC as they didn't qualify. She got upset and demanded her paperwork back, saying she would take it somewhere else that would get her a big refund. I have to wonder how the IRS would even allow the EIC for someone using ITINs, regardless of what the preparer put into the system.





You do realize that ITIN != illegal, right?

ITINs may be issued to illegals, but that is not their purpose. Their purpose is for people who are not eligible for Social Security but have a tax liability. People who don't even live in the US have ITINs if they have income derived from US sources that they have to pay taxes on.


When someone doesn't habla the ol' ingles all that well and lives in the US, yeah, they're an illegal.

I'm fully aware that non-US citizens get ITINs to satisfy their tax liability from US source income, but that wasn't the case in my post.

Thanks for not understanding the content of my post. Carry on.
I believe that all politicians are born with a genetic flaw that compels them to meddle in the affairs of others.
Josh
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Posted: 2/4/2013 3:46:01 AM
Originally Posted By tax_monster:
Originally Posted By Josh:
Originally Posted By tax_monster:

[snip]
Many years ago I had a chick who was an illegal (since she had an ITIN and not a SSN) and her kids had ITINs. I did the return and she was pretty unhappy with the result. She wanted to know where her big refund was. I explained that because she was illegal, as were her kids and they all had ITINs, they didn't get the EIC as they didn't qualify. She got upset and demanded her paperwork back, saying she would take it somewhere else that would get her a big refund. I have to wonder how the IRS would even allow the EIC for someone using ITINs, regardless of what the preparer put into the system.





You do realize that ITIN != illegal, right?

ITINs may be issued to illegals, but that is not their purpose. Their purpose is for people who are not eligible for Social Security but have a tax liability. People who don't even live in the US have ITINs if they have income derived from US sources that they have to pay taxes on.


When someone doesn't habla the ol' ingles all that well and lives in the US, yeah, they're an illegal.

I'm fully aware that non-US citizens get ITINs to satisfy their tax liability from US source income, but that wasn't the case in my post.

Thanks for not understanding the content of my post. Carry on.


You fail, and badly. I understand perfectly the point of your post. You wanted to denigrate someone, so you decided to present them as one of this site's little pet peeves, an illegal.

You presented as evidence that the person was an illegal, that they had an itin, which does not prove what you claim it does.

Not speaking English well is also not something that determines one's residency or citizenship status.
tax_monster
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Posted: 2/4/2013 3:58:14 AM
Originally Posted By Josh:

You fail, and badly. I understand perfectly the point of your post. You wanted to denigrate someone, so you decided to present them as one of this site's little pet peeves, an illegal.

You presented as evidence that the person was an illegal, that they had an itin, which does not prove what you claim it does.

Not speaking English well is also not something that determines one's residency or citizenship status.


Now you're just being obtuse. The woman was obviously an illegal as the area was rife with migrant workers sans documentation. She had an ITIN because she was illegal, she wasn't illegal because of the ITIN. Rather than go through all the observational steps I did to determine her likely status, I used the detail of the ITN vs. SSN. Happy now?
I believe that all politicians are born with a genetic flaw that compels them to meddle in the affairs of others.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 4:00:57 AM
[Last Edit: 2/4/2013 4:24:06 AM by Josh]
Originally Posted By tax_monster:
Originally Posted By Josh:

You fail, and badly. I understand perfectly the point of your post. You wanted to denigrate someone, so you decided to present them as one of this site's little pet peeves, an illegal.

You presented as evidence that the person was an illegal, that they had an itin, which does not prove what you claim it does.

Not speaking English well is also not something that determines one's residency or citizenship status.


Now you're just being obtuse. The woman was obviously an illegal as the area was rife with migrant workers sans documentation. She had an ITIN because she was illegal, she wasn't illegal because of the ITIN. Rather than go through all the observational steps I did to determine her likely status, I used the detail of the ITN vs. SSN. Happy now?


You assumed that everyone was ignorant and would accept your false statement. You were wrong, and you painted a whole lot of people with a great big brush that didn't apply to them.
tax_monster
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Posted: 2/4/2013 4:10:50 AM
Originally Posted By Josh:
You assumed that everyone was ignorant and would accept your false statement. You were wrong, and you painted a whole lot of people with a great big brush that didn't apply to them b


You are quite wrong. People on this board won't read more than a sentence or two before typing TL;DR so I made my post as short as possible to get the point across.

Sorry to hear you took it as an opportunity to get offended, and then high and mighty about it. You want to see a great big brush in someone's hand, go look in the mirror.
I believe that all politicians are born with a genetic flaw that compels them to meddle in the affairs of others.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 4:25:03 AM
Originally Posted By tax_monster:
Originally Posted By Josh:
You assumed that everyone was ignorant and would accept your false statement. You were wrong, and you painted a whole lot of people with a great big brush that didn't apply to them b


You are quite wrong. People on this board won't read more than a sentence or two before typing TL;DR so I made my post as short as possible to get the point across.

Sorry to hear you took it as an opportunity to get offended, and then high and mighty about it. You want to see a great big brush in someone's hand, go look in the mirror.


Nope, I'm not painting anybody else, just commenting on your specific behaviour. "painting with a broad brush" means something quite different than you think it does, but I guess we've already proven you don't like using words the way they're meant to be used.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 5:02:05 AM
"The kids are about 8 and 9. Their parents are both incarcerated. In the past, the client had also claimed his mom, the children's aunt, due to her being unemployed. This year, however, he's not claiming her, as she moved out on her own. His mom has legal custody of her niece and nephew, but they live with her son, the client. The client was upfront about them being his cousins. "

The kids are effecitvely his brothers, since his mother is their guardian and qualify for that reason alone. They are also effectively his foster kids and qualify for that reason also. You need to understand what constitututes a constructive relationship under the law. All you are doing is being an ignorant prick and bragging about wronfully screwing a guy that's taking care of his mom and his brothers in a constructive foster care/guardianship relationship.

You get an F- in tax law and an F- decency too.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 5:17:51 AM
Originally Posted By spunkets:
"The kids are about 8 and 9. Their parents are both incarcerated. In the past, the client had also claimed his mom, the children's aunt, due to her being unemployed. This year, however, he's not claiming her, as she moved out on her own. His mom has legal custody of her niece and nephew, but they live with her son, the client. The client was upfront about them being his cousins. "

The kids are effecitvely his brothers, since his mother is their guardian and qualify for that reason alone. They are also effectively his foster kids and qualify for that reason also. You need to understand what constitututes a constructive relationship under the law. All you are doing is being an ignorant prick and bragging about wronfully screwing a guy that's taking care of his mom and his brothers in a constructive foster care/guardianship relationship.

You get an F- in tax law and an F- decency too.


Oops!
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Posted: 2/4/2013 6:18:32 AM
Originally Posted By jaflowers:
Lets see...... I take a bag of tax papers to the tax company to have the pros do it right. I get a refund and am happy so I continue to go there each year, not knowing they screwed up. You go over my returns, find issues and turn me into the IRS. If your company didn't cover the mistakes, I'd find you. Turn my life upside down with the Feds and this wouldn't have a happy ending for you.


Another internet tough guy.

Tickets, Please!
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Posted: 2/4/2013 6:31:26 AM
Your company is on the hook for any penalties if taxes due the government aren't discovered, et al. But, you (your company) isn't responsible for paying anything in this case, I don't believe. It'll all land on the tax-"payer".

Personally, I have no problem with this. It sucks, but after just going through my own nightmare with IRS, I have little/no sympathy for someone who defrauded the system. Surely he knew he wasn't due a refund like that! Shit! He didn't pay that much in - not even close, I'd bet!

Yeah . . . the tax preparers should be fired. But, the kid's gotta' pay that money back. Too bad for him. And too bad for those children, too. I'm sure they'll suffer for this somehow. But, hell . . ! He's got no one to blame but himself!

Dumbass!

By the way, this should be a lessen for all of us to check our returns and make sure there are no fuck-ups! That kid is gonna' pay the devil to get square with Uncle Sam!
"In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress." - John Adams (1735-1826)


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Posted: 2/4/2013 6:40:13 AM
Lets see...First year out of school, can't find a job, finally lands a temporary job and than almost immediately finds a return that may have had some honest mistakes on it so you narc some poor bastard out who is taking care of relatives and will probably end up losing his house or other possessions as a result, and reading some of the later threads by others that indicate you may have been wrong in your initial assessment only reinforces my opinion of you that you are nothing but a low life narc.

Yup...that pretty much classifies you as a douchebag of the year.

I am also betting that you were more than a little bitter because you felt your intelligence and hard work should have landed you a better job..maybe a nice cushy government job and you probably thought this was your way to get your foot in the door with the IRS.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 6:40:47 AM
Originally Posted By SiVisPacem:

And, even if there was no such guarantee, he did sign the return. He should have read it and noticed that the dependents' relationships were incorrectly labeled.


+1

We got hammered once or twice this way, paying a "professional" to do your taxes does not shift the burden of fault in any way. Even this national tax service the OP speaks of probably has very little risk, outside of what they choose to do for the customer.

Ignorance has never been a justification for noncompliance - some of you might realize this is why ObamaCare penalties were "taxes." It's the only voluntary thing you can never opt out of.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 7:29:27 AM
[Last Edit: 2/4/2013 7:30:19 AM by 2W0X1]
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Posted: 2/4/2013 8:24:25 AM
Originally Posted By bcsoeod:
You did the right thing OP


I totally agree! SiVisPacem did his job with honesty and integrity. If I was hiring an accountant and knew of this incident it would be a big plus in spades for him in my evaluation. Doing the right thing isn't always the easiest, but certainly is the correct course of action in my book.
It also reminds me of the post about getting a free pressure washer. I can't believe the number of people that feel dishonesty is permissible. According to some I was a fool for returning a wallet with a months pay in it that a fellow serviceman lost or returning the extra money that some cashier incorrectly gave me. Hell the look on their face is reward enough and priceless!

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Posted: 2/4/2013 8:57:34 AM
[Last Edit: 2/4/2013 9:53:40 AM by avenj]
Originally Posted By ricky_45:

He already indicated that he gave the name and identifying number of the taxpayer. He's ok to report the company, not ok to disclose a client's information. He can get sued.


Which section of Circ 230 makes that clear?

ETA: I realized that might sound like sarcasm I obviously don't work in the field, just curious about it. I skimmed Circ 230 and was mostly left confused. I guess the real question I have for someone in the business is: what realistically constitutes "privileged information" and how does someone in the position of preparing taxes make that determination?
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Posted: 2/4/2013 8:58:52 AM
Originally Posted By tax_monster:
I find it interesting that the OP simply took the word of the customer that he "absolutely" informed prior tax preparers of the proper relatoinship and used that to start his own little investigation and ratted out to the IRS. People who depend on the EIC know pretty well who qualifies as a dependent for EIC purposes and who doesn't, so who is to say the customer told the truth in prior years?

Did the OP get any of the prior preparers to admit that they knew these dependents were cousins, and not qualifying EIC dependents, or did he just make that assumption?

The OP had good intentions but he screwed up. He will likely lose his job and probably get sued by the customer. It's going to be a harsh lesson for a fresh out-of-school tax "expert."


As an Accountant for 27 years I sort of have to go with this and the other poster about following the chain of command.

Whenever I found errors (deliberate or not) I always let the client know first and what action would need to be taken. For companies I worked for I would always inform my CEO of what needed to be done and if they didn't take the action required or authorize me to do it, then I would say then I have no choice but to do it. You have to protect your professional standing.

I don't have that much experience with the IRS but what I do know is they will investigate this to see what the correct facts are - they don't just take someone's word that a mistake has been made or something is fraudulent. If after the investigation they determine that amended returns have to be done and the client owes them a lot of money, and the client cannot afford to pay, they will often settle for a lesser amount or work out a payment plan. So the client is not going to lose his house. Normally the Company doing the tax return is liable for penalties and interest if any are charged.

However, if the OP didn't inform his employers of his intention to inform the IRS first, they will be mighty pissed off and so will the client.

I don't particularly like the Accounting field - I've seen all levels of Accountants from Chartered down to Bookkeepers do some very shady/illegal stuff in my time. As the OP found out - a lot of them either don't care or want to cover up their "mistakes" any way they can.

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Posted: 2/4/2013 9:01:31 AM
Prepare your anus. The IRS assumes guilt by association, and will be up your ass too.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 10:02:00 AM

Originally Posted By jaflowers:
Originally Posted By BushBoar:
It's a refund, not a return. A return is the form you file. I have no idea why 90% of the population doesn't know this.



My mistake, a refund. To me it's saying the same thing when they "return" some of your money. No biggie, sorry I misspoke.

Nothing against you - I just hear it every day from clients and for some reason it grates on me.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 10:18:09 AM

Originally Posted By eesmith:


Integrity is turning a client away when asked to do something illegal, NOT taking information disclosed in a paid professional and privileged position and using it to turn around and narc your trusting client out to the feds.

OP fucked his client and stabbed his employer in the back, word gets around in a community about people like that.


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Posted: 2/4/2013 10:22:59 AM
[Last Edit: 2/4/2013 10:34:19 AM by 74HC]
Originally Posted By SiVisPacem:
TL;DR: I work as a tax preparer and found that fellow employees fucked up and a client got over $40,000 in refunds to which he wasn't entitled. When I told my bosses, they tried to sweep it under the rug. So, I dropped a dime to the IRS.


Did they offer you anything while sweeping it under the rug. I think the term is hush money.

ETA:

You did the right thing. People need to pay their fair taxes before we can solidify support for lower taxes and efficient spending controls.

Also

This Thread Does Wonders in Outing The FSA and Democrats on ARFCOM.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 10:30:42 AM

Originally Posted By wtturn:

Originally Posted By eesmith:


Integrity is turning a client away when asked to do something illegal, NOT taking information disclosed in a paid professional and privileged position and using it to turn around and narc your trusting client out to the feds.

OP fucked his client and stabbed his employer in the back, word gets around in a community about people like that.




ok...but if we had more people like him...maybe some of the problems with our tax systems and leaches could be addressed and fixed...

I do my own taxes...

a few years ago a married couple I was friends with asked me to do theirs...I did...but their return was not as much as it had been in the past so they went to the same tax place they had been going to for years....then came back and told me they were getting back a lot more than I figured out for them....something of the order of $3000.00...

I looked at a copy of their return figuring that I did something wrong and maybe messed up mine real bad....


nope.... shady ass practices and claiming dependants that they should not have been able to claim... kids from a previous marriage that lived else where and claimed by the "EX"...


I wash my hand of them...
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SWIRE
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Posted: 2/4/2013 10:34:53 AM
[Last Edit: 2/4/2013 10:36:37 AM by SWIRE]
Originally Posted By SiVisPacem:
TL;DR: I work as a tax preparer and found that fellow employees fucked up and a client got over $40,000 in refunds to which he wasn't entitled. When I told my bosses, they tried to sweep it under the rug. So, I dropped a dime to the IRS.


You only think the previous employee screwed up. The tax companies know about this scam and encourage it. Read my thread about my friend who became a tax prepare for Jackson Hewitt this year. People who have no job skills come in and claim $15,000 in self employment income with zero documentation. My friend was instructed to process the return with no documentation and let these people leave with a refund around $5,000. Of course Jackson Hewitt charges these people $500 for filing a simple tax form. They know the people aren't going to complain because they are still getting back thousands of free money.

Here is my thread. Another FSA Scam Exposed:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1426928_Another_FSA_scam_exposed__Earned_Income_Credit_Fraud.html


I dropped a dime to my US Rep and Senators on this. I doubt it will do anything but maybe someone will start looking into it. I doubt the IRS will care because the FSA has no income they can garnish in the first place. It would just be a waste of man power to audit the FSA.

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Posted: 2/4/2013 11:04:32 AM
Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
Jesus

So much for mind your own business.

Some poor bastards life is about to be turned upside down.



Actually the company is probably on the line.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 11:12:53 AM
You did the right thing, not only to set things right, but you have to cover your own ass. Company should be liable.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 11:18:52 AM
If you think tax scamming is legitimate, look no further than Greece to see how it works out on a wide scale.
wtturn
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Posted: 2/4/2013 11:21:50 AM

Originally Posted By 74HC:

Also

This Thread Does Wonders in Outing The FSA and Democrats on ARFCOM.

Or the ones who understand how privileged relationships work.
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wtturn
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Posted: 2/4/2013 11:24:37 AM

Originally Posted By BURN:


ok...but if we had more people like him...maybe some of the problems with our tax systems and leaches could be addressed and fixed...



The root problem is the system itself, not anything that happens within the system.

Fraud and leaches are symptoms of a sick and broken system.


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Posted: 2/4/2013 11:41:24 AM

If someone on this website posted that they did some unkosher tax thing, would you be lawfully required to report it to the IRS?


No. But, if you can't understand the difference between reading something on the internet, posted by a random stranger, and signing your name to a tax document and then willfully trying to hide information from the IRS, I don't think we can discuss this on the same intellectual level.


This man gets it.

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Posted: 2/4/2013 11:47:04 AM
[Last Edit: 2/4/2013 12:02:54 PM by sdvivian]
doubled accidentally
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Posted: 2/4/2013 11:47:23 AM
im torn on this

yes the client should pay what is due. yes company fucked up

on the other hand, denying the govt money right now...............i have difficulty not going: fuck them, they would have done the same if they had the opportunity.

dont make it right, but..........
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Rattlehead502
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Posted: 2/4/2013 11:49:50 AM
Originally Posted By 74HC:
Originally Posted By SiVisPacem:
TL;DR: I work as a tax preparer and found that fellow employees fucked up and a client got over $40,000 in refunds to which he wasn't entitled. When I told my bosses, they tried to sweep it under the rug. So, I dropped a dime to the IRS.


Did they offer you anything while sweeping it under the rug. I think the term is hush money.

ETA:

You did the right thing. People need to pay their fair taxes before we can solidify support for lower taxes and efficient spending controls.

Also

This Thread Does Wonders in Outing The FSA and Democrats on ARFCOM.


This. Apparently a lot of ex-Enron executives hang out here.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 12:12:16 PM
Originally Posted By sherrick13:

Originally Posted By C-4:
Originally Posted By SiVisPacem:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:




I was with you right up until the tattle-telling part. Seriously, wtf dude?

Beyond that, I think CoC would frown on what I really want to say right now.


If the IRS audits his return and compares it to last year's, they will discover the inconsistencies. When they look into it, they will find out that I know about it. If I don't say something, and allow it to be swept under the rug, I would be just as guilty of tax fraud and lack of due diligence as the prior year's preparers. That would result in a fine and loss of my right to practice before the IRS. Should I be convicted of tax fraud, I'd never work as an accountant.


Are you required under penalty of law to report the prior years mistakes?

As much as most of us dislike the IRS, people have to pay their taxes.


No. You are REQUIRED to tell the client what was done wrong and encourage them to fix it. If they don't you sever the business relationship.

In this case he told his supervisors and mgt in the tax firm about it and they showed they did not care they were breaking the law. OP decided to let the IRS know and did the right thing IMO. He might get fired, but he could sue. Anyway, he said he doesn't really care about the job because it ends in a couple of months. The client could sue him, but he didn't have any part of the previous returns, so I bet the client would go after the firm instead. Not to mention the deep pockets aspect.

One thing in question is did he do something wrong by giving the IRS the client name and SSN after he told the IRS about the firm's actions.


IRS rules say that a tax preparer MUST give the IRS information unless it is 'privileged'.


§ 10.20 Information to be furnished.

(a)

To the Internal Revenue Service.




(1) A practitioner must, on a proper and lawful request by a duly authorized officer or employee of the Internal Revenue Service, promptly submit records or information in any matter before the Internal Revenue Service unless the practitioner believes in good faith and on reasonable grounds that the records or information are privileged.






Is the clients name and SSN privileged? I don't think so. However, I suppose he could have bumped the request to his supervisor. It is a question I'm definately going to ask my future employers.


The identity of the taxpayer may very well have been privileged. It is YOUR job, not the job of the IRS, to timely assert any appicable privileges. I'll bet you didn't consult with a lawyer on that, did you?
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Posted: 2/4/2013 12:18:24 PM
Originally Posted By spunkets:
"The kids are about 8 and 9. Their parents are both incarcerated. In the past, the client had also claimed his mom, the children's aunt, due to her being unemployed. This year, however, he's not claiming her, as she moved out on her own. His mom has legal custody of her niece and nephew, but they live with her son, the client. The client was upfront about them being his cousins. "

The kids are effecitvely his brothers, since his mother is their guardian and qualify for that reason alone. They are also effectively his foster kids and qualify for that reason also. You need to understand what constitututes a constructive relationship under the law. All you are doing is being an ignorant prick and bragging about wronfully screwing a guy that's taking care of his mom and his brothers in a constructive foster care/guardianship relationship.

You get an F- in tax law and an F- decency too.


From the IRS website on EITC:

Who is an eligible foster child?

An eligible foster child is one placed with you by an authorized placement agency or by judgment, decree, or other order of any court of competent jurisdiction.


It sure sounded like they had a court order . . .
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Posted: 2/4/2013 1:00:33 PM

Originally Posted By FLAJD11:
Originally Posted By sherrick13:

Originally Posted By C-4:
Originally Posted By SiVisPacem:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:




I was with you right up until the tattle-telling part. Seriously, wtf dude?

Beyond that, I think CoC would frown on what I really want to say right now.


If the IRS audits his return and compares it to last year's, they will discover the inconsistencies. When they look into it, they will find out that I know about it. If I don't say something, and allow it to be swept under the rug, I would be just as guilty of tax fraud and lack of due diligence as the prior year's preparers. That would result in a fine and loss of my right to practice before the IRS. Should I be convicted of tax fraud, I'd never work as an accountant.


Are you required under penalty of law to report the prior years mistakes?

As much as most of us dislike the IRS, people have to pay their taxes.


No. You are REQUIRED to tell the client what was done wrong and encourage them to fix it. If they don't you sever the business relationship.

In this case he told his supervisors and mgt in the tax firm about it and they showed they did not care they were breaking the law. OP decided to let the IRS know and did the right thing IMO. He might get fired, but he could sue. Anyway, he said he doesn't really care about the job because it ends in a couple of months. The client could sue him, but he didn't have any part of the previous returns, so I bet the client would go after the firm instead. Not to mention the deep pockets aspect.

One thing in question is did he do something wrong by giving the IRS the client name and SSN after he told the IRS about the firm's actions.


IRS rules say that a tax preparer MUST give the IRS information unless it is 'privileged'.


§ 10.20 Information to be furnished.

(a)

To the Internal Revenue Service.




(1) A practitioner must, on a proper and lawful request by a duly authorized officer or employee of the Internal Revenue Service, promptly submit records or information in any matter before the Internal Revenue Service unless the practitioner believes in good faith and on reasonable grounds that the records or information are privileged.






Is the clients name and SSN privileged? I don't think so. However, I suppose he could have bumped the request to his supervisor. It is a question I'm definately going to ask my future employers.


The identity of the taxpayer may very well have been privileged. It is YOUR job, not the job of the IRS, to timely assert any appicable privileges. I'll bet you didn't consult with a lawyer on that, did you?


The IRS has the right to ask tax preparers information about situations they are looking at.

Cir 230 says that tax preparers have to give information to the IRS unless it is 'priviliged'.


The most BASIC information you could give to the IRS is a person's name and SSN. It is the very first things at the top of the tax form. It that is 'priviliged' than was isn't?


And go back and read the very last sentence of my post.
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Posted: 2/4/2013 1:30:41 PM
It's interesting seeing what are considered privileged relationships in various fields. For example, you've got attorney-client privilege, on one hand. On the other side, I'm a custkms broker (license in progress). Our relationship with customers is not privileged. If CBP comes asking questions about my customer, I must answer. No way around it.



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