Go to hell. My father has very real ptsd and was forced to retire early from a career in law enforcement just a few years from his actual retirement date after seeking help from the VA.. He is not dangerous to anyone much less himself, and now he has to worry about shit like this on to of healthcare providers even within the VA who think like you do and make it a hellish experience trying to get help for a very real problem.

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If you are so mentally ill that you can't hold a job, handle the stress of a job, and need the government to take care of you financially...............

Think about it. You do not have the mental capacity to get up in the morning, get yourself to work, do what you are told and then go home.

If you can't do that, how are you suppose to be trusted with a firearm?

I call BS on this at least partially after seeing how long and full of bullshit the road to 70% was for my buddy who is truly fucked up, and 100%for my dad.

ETA - I am far more happy to see tax dollars spent to support disabled vets for the rest of their lives than I am seeing it go to welfare for life and the Fsa

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There's a lot of fucked up and "Fuck you I'll gladly throw you under the bus" in this thread  

PTSD claimants that really fit in the FSA category should not own guns.

Those of us who had some form of PTSD (mild sleep disturbance, etc.), and have done the right thing by talking with someone while we hold real life jobs, should not be punished.  I never opted for drugs. Never asked to be paid, all I did was go and talk with someone a few times to ensure I was on the right path to adjusting back to the civilian life.  I am not, nor never will be the enemy of America and do find it disturbing when other Americans generalize this category of persons, especially at such a controversial age in our government.  keep in mind folks, the vast majority of individuals that have returned from many, many wars before went on to be both successful and contributing members of society.  it is even happening today with my generation.  Do not be the few ruin it for the rest of us.

Bad news

The official title is the "NICS Improvements Amendments Act of 2007"

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/hr2640/text



Some of the bits I found rather disconcerting. "We adjudicated you mentally incompetent..... due process in a court you say? Well, I'm the deciding authority here and you had your opportunity for a hearing last year, it's not my fault you failed to schedule it..... no one told you about the opportunity? Ignorance of the law is no excuse! Now pick up that can."

I have an idea.  The number of bullshit PTSD claims is through the roof -- I've seen contractors openly bragging about their %.

If you're too fucked up to hold down a job -- you're too fucked up to own a firearm.

Don't like that?  Then don't try scamming the system and over-exaggerating your problems.

Individuals with full-on PTSD probably shouldn't have firearm access as was just demonstrated at a range with a well known SEAL.

If your PTSD is just sleep related or something minor than you wouldn't be being judged incompetent and you're not losing your firearms rights anyways.

Your two anecdotal cases don't compare to the 15+ I've heard about from Vets scamming the system and now working as contractors...

I have friends who suffered very trying times because they were fearful to go to the VA for just this reason.

It would be absolutely retarded to determine whether or not it's appropriate to deny the RKBA solely of the disability percentage. It's an almost arbitrary metric and a function of bureacratic determinations. The standard must always be whether the person is an imminent danger to themselves or others in addition to being mentally incompetent. To go about this any other way would be totally incongruent with the notion of due process. No to mention if you used the disability rating as your metric you will be forcing folks to choose between treatment/benefits and basic human rights, a dialema that would certainly produce significant unintended consequences.

The bolded part above can be a real problem.  Having had to talk a buddy into putting away his handgun in a parking lot because a guy got out of the car next to him I know that there can be some reasons a vet with PTSD might need to have his ability to own guns restricted.  Another guy has told me that on occasion when a car pulls up next to him too quickly he draws his gun.   Both of these guys hold down jobs so the issue isn't exactly cut and dry.  But i do agree with those that say that if a vet is saying that PTSD affects them so bad that they can't even hold a job I think it is prudent to examine whether they should own firearms.

First I will say I am a civilian and never served.  I appreciate the service of our fine soldiers.  I have known several friends and family that have served in active combat over the years and all were gun owners.  I find this despicable that they would take away the rights of these people.  Several of the older guys I grew up around were in Vietnam and had what would be diagnosed as PTSD nowadays.  One drank about five fiths of vodka a day.  I helped clean well over 3000 empty bottles out of his room.  His brother was a helicopter gunner in Vietnam and would leave the room anytime someone even mentioned the war.  My grandfather served a tour in WW2, tour in Korea, and two tours in Vietnam.  One of the guys I knew that was in Iraq in the 90's was diagnosed with PTSD, later robbed a bank and got extradited from Germany.  Except for the now felon I never saw a problem with them owning firearms.

I have a friend who has ptsd, several times a year i talk him out of buying a firearm, ain't no fuckin way i want him to own a gun, nethier does his wife, don't much give a shit what anyone thinks, if he ever buys one it will turn up lost.

Whether true or not, there is NO DOUBT in my mind that eventually anytime someone mentions they are depressed they will be forced to turn in their guns and never own another one.

Tinfoil(?), maybe but probably not.

It's even simpler than that really.

Lets say you and your doctor have a pretty good handle on all your manifesting symptoms of PTSD through a variety of means to include medications. One of those medications is Ambien. 99% of the time it works like it should and you're able to get to sleep and wake up for work like you should. But on rare occasions it acts as a narcoleptic and you sleep through the three alarm clocks you have set. This happens 3 times in a four month period, and you suddenly find yourself fired from your job for tardiness.

Congratulations, you're "too unstable to hold a job." Uncontrollably violent? Nope. Unable to make proper moral or ethical decisions? Nope. Unable to manage your finances soundly? Nope. Your meds just made you late for work too many times, so fuck you, now turn in your guns!

I will NEVER take sleeping pills or any mind altering drugs, I don't give a FUCK who is trying to give it to me.

Your choice. For some folks it's the decision between taking the ambien on work nights in order to function as a productive person or being awake for 35-40 hours straight, half of which is spent with the classic symptoms of sleep deprivation only to suddenly swing from insomniac to narcoleptic for 12-14 hours.

Understood but keep in mind that I believe eventually information that shows someone is using mind altering drugs, for WHATEVER reason, will be used to remove their 2A rights.

for my part at least that is not the type of guy i am talking about.  I am talking about the guy that doesn't work and has made the claim that he can't work because he is too screwed in the head.  That is a far cry from the scenario you posted.  

If someone has a mental illness, are they also to dangerous to society to be able to speak out in public?  Perhaps we should also suspend the 4th and 5th Amendments?

That's a bullshit, uneducated opinion. I've been diagnosed with severe/chronic ptsd. I have guns. The VA  confirmed the only ones that would be referred to a judge are the ones that have demonstrated themselves as a danger to themselves or someone else. There's are many different forms or ways that ptsd affect people. Having ptsd does not mean you are going to take off with you're rifle and reenact a flashback. For some its just not sleeping well or forgetting things, being a little more irritable or cautious. Do some research before you go running your month about things that don't know anything about. You sound like the Media talking about guns.

I just saw on FOX where former USN Seal C. Kyle and another guy was killed at a Texas gun range by some guy with PTSD.

Not unstable in the way you are trying to portray it. Instant, in a loudly used teen to describe not sleeping, checking the doors to make sure they are locked.always looking for an escape route, easily startled from sleep. But being able to focus on one thing at s time.that's what s genericThat's what a majority of ptsd is comprised of.

this happens at every pharmacy in the US  

Because this is one indirect way for the assholes who favor civilian disarmament to acheive their nefarious goal.

Of course you knew this but I wanted to type it anyhow.

So there.

Seriously guys?  A lot of you in this thread sadden me.

Reason why on my post deployment health survey, I answered along the lines of "Exposed, but not symptomatic at this time" to pollutants, chemicals, loud noises, and mental health issues.  

I wanted to cover my ass just in case, but give it a few years.  A thunderstorm triggered a flashback for me on my first year I returned, fine now (with hearing protection on ).  

I'm rated 70% for ptsd. I have my ffl/sot. I would sure like to know what the fuck my ptsd has to do with me owning a gun? So what if I have recurring dreams, don't sleep well, have had anxiety, don't like crowds, I'm hypervigilant or easily startled. Just means I'm being compensated for things I did while I was In the army that have changed my quality of life. Some of u fucktards need to educate yourselfs about what ptsd really is.

It ain't so much that I fault someone for trying to alleviate their mental problems..........for me it is an overly intrusive system that will probably be set up and used to remove their 2A rights.

Do you see my point?

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2008/01/08/veterans-may-suffer-from-the-veterans-disarmament-act/



 

One thing that many people in this thread don't understand is that VA disability is much different than other types of disability.   It is not meant as insurance for those rendered unable to work, it is direct compensation for degraded quality of life as a result of injury, it does not mean that you cannot work.  A PTSD rating does not mean that you are so FUBAR in the head that you can't function.

PTSD ratings are very common.  Many of them are based on very sketchy claims, including a lot of outright fraud.  However, there are many vets who are fully functional but are rated because their quality of life is impacted.

How does any of what you just typed show cause to deprive someone of their naturals rights without due process.

On top of that lots of people have PTSD and do hold a job.

I find it disturbing that you are so readily willing to deprive people of their natural rights with no due process.

Military people with PTSD have done more to serve their country than most people, if some are on assistance, it isn't free money for them, they paid for it with sweat, blood, tears and trauma.

Because that happens to everyone. The trauma of combat does not and is bestowed upon those who voluntarily or are asked to step up for the common good of the country and do and see and feel things that are the worst humanity has to offer.

You say you are a vet yet you can not see this?


ETA. I see now that you are suing 100% disability for PTSD.

I think either someone is a violent threat or not makes a big difference.

Not if arfcom has anything to say about it. Don't worry comrade, we know what is best for you, we'll keep you safe and make your choices for you, we know you're not capable.

link

This. It's disgusting that there are more than a few here that would accuse you pod taking free money, Fsa style.


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Including fellow veterans, apparently.  

I'm surprised to learn that severe PTSD has pretty minor symptoms.  

So many people in this thread commenting on PTSD who have no knowledge or experience with PTSD.  The "My buddy scammed the system and I'm mad so anyone who has PTSD should lose their firearms" posts are just sad.  Before you post on a subject, at least go research it enough to not look like a total fool.  Are some people able to scam the system?  Yes, but it is extremely difficult to do.  As someone who recently (just this week) got diagnosed with PTSD I can tell you that it is not as easy as walking into the Psychologists office and saying "I can't sleep and have bad dreams".  They need documentation of the the event/events that lead to your problems (date/place/description) and it needs to be vetted through your SRB.  You can't just sit on a base for 6 months and claim PTSD having never seen combat.  And, yes, combat encounters are recorded in your SRB through CARs and similar reports.  

Now, on to PTSD itself.  To say anyone with PTSD is not mentally stable enough to own a firearm is one of the most asinine things I have ever heard.  You probably aren't aware, but you can be service connected for PTSD and receive a 0% evaluation.  Did you know that?  Depending on the severity, your compensation can range from 0%-100%.  So, a veteran who has a 0% service connected disability rating should not be allowed to own a firearm?  Ask anyone who has gone through the VA.  It is damn near impossible to be rated 100% for anything.  This is the VA requirement for a 100% schedule rating:

Total occupational and social impairment, due to such symptoms as: gross impairment in thought processes or communication; persistent delusions or hallucinations; grossly inappropriate behavior; persistent danger of hurting self or others; intermittent inability to perform activities of daily living (including maintenance of minimal personal hygiene); disorientation to time or place; memory loss for names of close relatives, own occupation, or own name.

This evaluation does not come strictly from the interview with a Veteran.  There must be Dr. reports and other evidence to back it up.  So, in short, people who are ranting about their buddy who got 100% disability for PTSD because they "faked it" either don't know the whole story or are full of .

I specifically told the lady who sat with me for almost 2 hours that I started to cancel my appointment numerous times because of my concern over the current political environment.  She nodded her head and said that is a growing concern among people in her profession.  She assured me that in order for anyone to try to get you deemed unfit to own a weapon, they must have proof that you are a threat to yourself or others and it is VERY difficult for them to do.  

The point for ALOT of us is there could VERY WELL be a new mental health type of regulation, etc., enacted into law that will remove 2A rights for those complaining of PTSD.

It has nothing to do with the patients being bull shitters but to our worry of an intrusive, unfair mental health statute being enacted.

As a result of this fear, I recommend NO ONE go to a doctor complaining of depression, etc.  YMMV.

What did people expect when they joined the military?  Are they surprised that this is part of the job description?  Did they think that being exposed to this kind of stuff wouldn't change them as a person?

I enlisted with open eyes so I'm curious if the majority of people who serve the military don't think this stuff through.  

(This is also not a statement that mental health treatment should not be given.)

Isn't the most common symptom of PTSD insomnia, or just trouble sleeping in general?  PTSD is a spectrum disorder.  It can manifest as any of dozens of symptoms, many benign and a few dangerous.  The problem is that we all know that PTSD itself will be used as the deciding factor in whether you can own guns, and not what specific symptoms you have.

I'm with Tangledhorns on this.  Mentally unstable people with guns are the reason we are under so much scrutiny now.   Keep up with your belligerent attitude and they will succeed in taking guns away.

Do you support ending retirment for the troops?

I warned people that Obamacare + Electronic Medical Records is going to be one of the biggest losses
of freedom in U.S. history.  PTSD is only going to be one of many mental disorders that will be put on the
list for prohibited persons.  Good luck trying to reverse that.  I've worked at the VA as a doc during my
training years.  I remember patients trying to get higher and higher service connection and now it's going
to hurt a lot of them, especially with the new law changes in 2008 pointed out above!

FIFY for MORE EMPHASIS!!

You forgot to say they'll make it ALL retro-active.

Nevermind.........you DID mention that.

DO NOT go to a doctor for depression issues if you value your 2A rights IMHO.

Fuck that guy.