Which is why something needs to be done about separating the harmless levels of mental illness from the harmful levels of mental illness.  As I stated above there are varying levels of these illnesses and unfortunately some of them result in the person going nuts and shooting someone else or multiple people.  This doesn't mean they all should lose their right to bear arms, but it does mean that some people shouldn't own firearms.



We need a better way to tell one from the other while getting them all the help they need.



 

I don't think anybody is arguing that, but the majority of people I know who've been diagnosed with PTSD do not meet any of those criteria, I would imagine, since you're a vet as well, you have the same experience.

I'm justifying the fact that these are veterans who signed on the dotted line, wrote a blank check of 'up to and including our lives' to Uncle Sam for the defense of this country and constitution.

What have you done, I wonder? It's very easy to sit there on your ass, point fingers and try to justify your stance.

Yep.

One of my buddies went pretty off the walls and ran out into the yard hiding behind trees and stuff thinking he was back in A-stan.  He was uhh eccentric before the army so I'm not sure if it really made him worse, he had problems beforehand. Never the less he saw and did some things that will haunt him forever.  He's trying to claim disability even though he seems fine to me.  Yes he's had at least that episode, but  I mean he can function in general, he can work, he can drink at the bars and hangout with friends, seems to me he wants the money because it's there and not because he needs it.  Let's be honest, most people who are offered potentially free money will at least try to get it, and I'm sure he sees himself as having earned it by serving, idk.  But it is frustrating, if he can work he should be, this is tax-payer money we are talking about, our money..  
That's off subject though, I'm ok with a him having guns even though he went off the walls and his parents hid his weapons because they were concerned.  That said, as much as I love guns and stand up for gun rights guys with PTSD who have violent or potentially violent episodes should have the courtesy for themselves and others to be responsible and if need be at least choose to deny themseleves and get rid of their guns.  I don't want infringements of peoples rights but we shouldn't be irresponsible either.   I for one, when taking ambien and other sleeping meds, moved my guns to another part of the house, if I though I was a danger to my family I would get rid of them.  I guess I just want people to make responsible well thought out decisions for themselves.

You've never met a schizophrenic vet or someone getting money each month because they are disabled due to PTSD? We must go to very different VA's and served in a very different military.



 

Contractors are civilians.  One of my best friends, prior USMC, is currently a contractor.  All you basically just did was say that contractors also shouldn't own/carry ARs.  Your comparison is still fail and so is your reading comprehension apparently.  I clarified my post for you but you still insist on turning this in to something it's not.  Can't say I didn't try.



 

Is that what I said?

I completely agree with you on limiting the access to firearms for those who violently manifest mentally ill symptoms, regardless of who they are.  That's not what I'm trying to convey.  

PTSD is not a litmus test for indicating if someone is a threat to others.

You shouldnt judge by a persons avatar, just because i dont have a tank, doesnt mean I didnt serve. You can keep wondering, this is not the point.  The point I was trying to make is, just because you signed on the dotted line doesnt mean you get a free ride.

It does not matter if your a veteran, fireman, cop etc....there should be not exceptions

Don't want ot come across like a dick, but holy shit, you absolutely don't know what you're talking about.  Sorry. I'm a lawyer by trade.  I spent 7 years working VA disability as a member of the rating board.  What they're talking about is "incompetent for va benefit purposes". VA can adjudicate you incompetent, however they must give you a predetermination notice of 60 days.  This just means that you are incompetent to handle your funds for VA purposes.

How this gets reacted to is up to the individual states and agencies who have particular jurisdictional powers related to a finding of incompentency.

You only get referred for "incompetency" by the VA if you're a 100% schedular for a mental condition, or if you're TDIU for a mental condition.

At least as of 2007, which is when I stopped working for VA.

Some of these people you seem so eager to throw under the bus have TBIs or other physical ailments.  So if you lose a limb and have been told you have ptsd and have a total combined disability that makes you unemployable  you can go fuck yourself too? I don't know of many people who have 100% for ptsd.





 

You might want to read this or this

"Currently, the VA appoints fiduciaries, often family members, to manage the pensions and disability benefits of veterans who are declared incompetent. When that happens, the department automatically enters the veteran's name in the Criminal Background Check System."

"At issue is whether a veteran who has been found unable to handle his or her financial affairs should have the right to own a gun. The Department of Veterans Affairs frequently assigns someone else, often a family member, to handle a veteran's finances, including his or her government pension and benefits. This triggers a report to the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) that the veteran is "incapacitated." Under the law, any such person, veteran or not, is barred from buying or owning guns. The law also applies to family members living under the same roof."

I guess what concerns me is one case where a vet said during his mental health exam that he occasionally forgets to pay his bills and got ruled incompetent.  Granted, I don't know what else he had going on, but the way the article read is that his only "offense" was the comment about forgetting to pay his bills on time.  I think it was on drudge report 1-2 months ago.

I wasn't asking for a free ride, I haven't met a veteran who has... but to categorize all of those with PTSD as 'crazy' because there are varying degrees of it is just fucked up, and wrong, and those who have served don't need that shit... they have enough to deal with.

I said I made that comparison to sound ridiculous.  But by what you just said, he would be fine by having an ar becuase he was in the military. Your reading comprehension is a fail.





 

You definitely accomplished sounding ridiculous.



You also clearly misunderstood my original post and took it to a level that it didn't need to be taken to.



Leaving it at that.



 

I don't get your point.  You still have to have a 100% schedular rating or TDIU to get an automatic referral.  Then you get a predetermination notice...which you can request a hearing for...so...I guess what I'm saying is that it's only a potential issue for 100% or TDIU.

Don't quote me some fucked up know nothing article, I rated THOUSANDS of disability claims and served on the appeals board, I kind of know what I'm talking about.

I pray you are right....

I always told my guys, that if you love guns and/or want to seek some type of federal/state .gov job, DO NOT TALK to any army or VA counselers.  May have been the wrong advice, but hey............

I haven't either, but i am sure there are, and those are the ones I am talking about, maybe I wasnt clear about that, maybe I missed it but I dont recall anyone in this thread catagorizing vets with PTSD "crazys" not every swingin dick who has PTSD should be denied.  like I said it is a gray area

I did this as well, I believe it is the right call. I almost walked down the "wrong" road myself and fucked myself

I don't go half Yeager, I'm all in.



 

This. It's very convenient, isn't it?

Christ, butthurt much about the money issue?  

You've mentioned it in damn near every post in this thread.  Get over it dude.  

Have hearing damage?  The VA pays you for it.  Not because you can't work, its compensation for the more difficult life you now face.

Lose a leg?  The VA pays you for it.  Not because you can't work, its compensation for the more difficult life you now face.  

Have some level of PTSD?  The VA pays you for it.  Not because you can't work, its compensation for the more difficult life you now face.

Holy fuck people.  This shit isn't hard to understand.

Leave it to a tube stroker to interject some logic into this thread.

And life becomes ever more difficult as you get balder, fatter, and older. Who do you petition for those monies due the more difficult life you now face?



 

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.

Equating injuries sustained in combat to getting fat.  

Uh huh.

incorrect.

No, stating that life gets hard regardless. And I never said that no one should get paid for something that is service connected. However, I do maintain that if you have psychological issues that are that pressing that you get 100% disability rating, you should not be packing.



 

If you're ever in New Orleans I would be more than happy to introduce and let you babysit a guy that I know who has PTSD, this poor kid is so fucked. He served his country with me and he doesn't need to be anywhere around weapons. According to him it happened when our buddy lost his arm(IED). The buddy who lost his arm is fine and doesn't have PTSD, on that night he was actually as calm as could be and put on his own tourniquet. We had to restrain the first one because he threw  down his weapon and started freaking the fuck out and screaming.   There is just not enough known as to why people react to things the way they do and would happen when they get a trigger.

THIS.

IF YOU WANT TO BE A BITCH AND CLAIM PTSD AND TAKE THE RIDE, EXPECT SOME NEGATIVE BACKLASH.

Ya I just got medically retired, not for PTSD tho. I did get to meet a lot of these crazy douchebags and I'm glad they can't own a firearm.
11B OEF veteran

Ruh-roh x 2! Prepare to get pounced on by the "I'm a gawd damn vet, you commie faggot" crowd.





 

Generally speaking, people with PTSD are fine to own firearms. As with anything, some people on the extremes are not OK to do many things. I see some tracking toward the absolute extreme in a lot of posts here and that does not represent the norm.

Bitches and douchebags? Impressive. Stay classy.

Don't be ridiculous. Oh, wait....

That isn't the argument and you know it.

You seem pretty angry.  You should talk to someone about that.

That hasn't been my experience, but I'm no doctor, I have seen plenty of asshole's who said they were going to claim PTSD and maybe they're the ones you're running into or with.

Lol cue the lt Dan pics

I mean, I would but theyl take my guns lol

Fuck - me and my buddy go to meetings at the vet center because our wives are really controlling and its the only time we get to hang out. I hope we can still own guns.

If they are ruled unfit and disabled to a large enough degree that they could potentially be a danger to themselves or others, absolutely. It is true though that every case is different. Ones with "less severe" forms of PTSD should receive a lower rating, receive less government aid, and still be allowed to keep their rights. As was said before, the ones who cannot even hold a job due to the disability should not be allowed to own firearms and also be given the most aid. It is a very good thing that this will start to get a lot more attention and the Veterans Disarmament Act was a step in the right direction.

Based on some of the posts I'm seeing here, I think there is a gross misunderstanding of how VA Disability works and what PTSD really is all about.

The VA compensates Veterans based upon the fact that over the course of our Service, be it 3 years or 30 years things happen to us that cause us to become what the VA diagnoses as "disabled". The VA isn't just for guys missing appendages, dying of cancer from Agent Orange exposure, clinically insane with PTSD-related symptoms, or elderly Vets who can't afford health care anywhere else.  That's Hollywood VA.  

The reality is, the VA evaluates us based upon what we could do when we came in, and what we are capable of doing now that our service is over. Again 3 years or 30, your service has had some effects on your physical (and mental/emotional) health.  If your hearing has decreased sinc you came in, you get percentage points.  If you have knee problems you didn't have before, you get percentage points. Sleep apnea you didn't have before, you get percentage points.  PTSD you didn't have before, percentage points.  Fear of Crowds and Dogs you didn't have before, percentage points.  And so on and so forth.  Hence, you see the Disabled Veteran license plate on the vehicle of a guy who walks with a cane or walker and at the same time on the vehicle of a guy walking around unassisted with nothing visibly wrong with him.  If your points add up over a certain percentage, you are a "Disabled Veteran" no two ways about it.

The PTSD diagnosis does not mean you are The Deer Hunter.  In the vast majority of cases, PTSD is really more a collection of minor emotional gliches that disrupt the ability of a veteran to "live normally".  Generally it has more to do with guilt, hypervigilence, sleep disorders, and startle responses.  The only time I have ever seen PTSD linked to violent behavior or extreme psychosis was when it was coupled with the gross abuses of both alcohol AND drugs.  

I personally have heeded the advice of a variety of individuals and tread very cautiously when it comes to my PTSD diagnosis.  Eventually, I will probably/almost certainly claim it, as I will claim all of my other service related disorders. But I will do so cautiously and mindful of the political climate whatever that winds up being in the future.

If youre too psychologically  messed up  to hold a job, and on disability, one probably shouldn't  be allowed to own firearms.  Just getting some VA benifits to supplement income doesnt seem reasonabel.  It shouldn't be made difficult to get your rights back after recovery though.  But seriously if youre on long term disability, unable to work because of serious mental instability, carrying weapons shouldn't be an option.


It looks like PTSD can be catogorized for a lot of reasons, so perhaps some kind of specific documentation/diagnosis should be requireed to suspend your right to firearms. Just having some anxiety and trouble sleeping with enough points shouldn't take those rights away.  If  you're  having hallucinations, violent episodes, or other serious mental issues I think an argument could be made....

 Just my .02.

Whats going to stop them? you say it is okay to take away people with ptsds guns. Why not take all combat veterans guns away because they are just as dangerous if not more because they never went in for help.  If you guys can't see that you give an inch they are going to take the whole thing. So keep shitting on people who have ptsd and when they say all combat vets are unfit then don't cry on here.  Its about time we start sticking together instead of trying to throw any group under the bus.



 

agreed.  The people that say that vets that are 100% disabled because of ptsd but should still have firearms because "theyve earned it", remind me of the senators that like to make rules for the population but exempt themselves from those rules.    


The only reason we are even arguing about this is because military vets are untouchable if you want to remain politically correct.  If we were talking about people on mental disability from being a social worker or something, there wouldn't be any argument over whether they should have firearms

All this noise about who should be allowed to have this or that is Bullshit. Reduce restrictions on gun ownership, and when some fuck does something illegal with his guns, deal with his ass. Thats when we can say "I don't care who you are, or where you came from, you fucked up." As we can clearly see here It's a damn slippery slope when folks get busy judging others competence in this matter. Individual Liberty, Individual responsibility.

A 100% disability due to PTSD is EXCEPTIONALLY rare.  Most of the time (but not all) PTSD diagnosis will land you anywhere from 45%-65% VA Disability rating.  HOWEVER, since VA diability is cumulative, so if you also have Hearing loss, Sleep Apnea, and a bum knee you will recieve an overall rating of anywhere from 90-100%. Congrats, you made it!

Say a person spends a few years living everyday with their mortality impressed upon them by the reality they are experiencing, often tramatically.
Maybe that person has a little trouble re-adjusting to the modern American society and the business/corporate world half-filled with lazy, stupid, self-centered idiots that just want to sham their way through the day and run home to FB and watch reality shows that are far real life.
This may affect their ability to hold a job but it does not mean they are potentally psychotic.
Some people, who suffer from PTSD and other forms of mental disorders, should not be allowed to own weapons until the are determined to no longer be a threat to themselves or others. This should be only in extreme cases and needs to be determined judicially after medical review.

Every system that is set up will be exploited by a percentage of indiviuals envolved on the receiving end and sometimes by those who run the system.